There really is a God

@Mccarry said:
@Spartan117 said:
I find it intersing that when the discussion of a debate of Diaty vs Not is always centered around the Bible.

I have also noted in this world a distinct anti God (Yahwa) and Anti Jesus sentiment that is growing.

The new religion seems to be tolerance of all things however disgusting or bankrupt they may be these days.

I wonder if it is simply an excuse to negate the notion that we are accountable to someone some where at some point in our personal existences.

Yes we now value tolerance over what is good.

Just last week a sex change was celebrated on Australian national TV (the panel or whatever it's called) as courageous… Seriously....?

Without God the says who test applies. Who says what is right? Without God our society is celebrating a sex change. Wow, when did things get so messed up.... Oh when we decided we were the best equiped to make the rules.

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Should we really be taking moral cues from a deity that supposedly drowned everyone, including children, the unborn and animals?
 
@Tigersman said:
You people are your own cult "The Anti Religion" Cult. Would you rather believe that when we die we rot in a coffin for eternity or that we get sent to heaven… No one wants to die but I'd rather die and go to the next place than rot in a coffin...

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Yeah I don't think the cult accusation is all that necessary or even remotely accurate.

However, wishful thinking does not change anything. When you die, you die.
 
@Goose said:
You did say earlier that we have to respect the beliefs of others??

Unfortunately many believe the above to be christian views.

The values of love, tolerance and forgiveness definitely should be respected, not everyone's religious views are in line with this, which was an earlier point.

We should respect the right to have beliefs, but not all beliefs need be respected. The Westboro baptist church and ISIS are 2 religious organisations that can not have their beliefs respected.

No i definitely did not say that we have to respect all beliefs.

I certainly don't.

I said that if someone is a Christian whose beliefs centre around love, forgiveness and tolerance, than why would you not respect those qualities?

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@tigerbalm said:
Trust me, I want to keep religion an science as far apart as possible, unfortunately you posted an article ( from huff post lolololol) trying to align current thinking on the origin of the universe to some archaic ramblings that have literally and metaphorically no similarities at all.

Still, kudos for sticking up for your dying cult. It shows character.

You do a good job of missing points and avoiding discussion on anything unaligned to your ramblings. But I suppose it makes life easier to not have to actually understand anything and just go off on tangents all the time.

As for dying cult… Hahahaha

People have been saying that for over 2,000 years, and yet Christianity is still growing year by year around the world.

Let me know when it dies out please.

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@Tigerdave said:
and he says it right there, the light was created after heaven and earth

The light you are referring to here is a reference to the lifting of gases that had previously kept planet earth in total darkness. Again, in line with scientific thinking.

You seem to be missing the point here though … It's not about scoring a perfect test score in relation to every detail, it's about how could the Bible possibly contain such information if it was merely written by some random guy 4,000 yrs ago?

The mathematical chances of guessing the order of creation with no background knowledge of the matter is basically impossible.

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It won't happen in our lifetime sadly, but give it a couple of centuries and it will be all but gone.Atheism is expanding at a rapid rate.
 
@GNR4LIFE said:
It won't happen in our lifetime sadly, but give it a couple of centuries and it will be all but gone.Atheism is expanding at a rapid rate.

True in Europe and maybe Australia. Far from true in Asia and Africa where Christianity is growing rapidly.

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@Hbom said:
@GNR4LIFE said:
It won't happen in our lifetime sadly, but give it a couple of centuries and it will be all but gone.Atheism is expanding at a rapid rate.

True in Europe and maybe Australia. Far from true in Asia and Africa where Christianity is growing rapidly.

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Why is that you think?

Those particular regions?

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@Abraham said:
@Tigerdave said:
and he says it right there, the light was created after heaven and earth

The light you are referring to here is a reference to the lifting of gases that had previously kept planet earth in total darkness. Again, in line with scientific thinking.

You seem to be missing the point here though … It's not about scoring a perfect test score in relation to every detail, it's about how could the Bible possibly contain such information if it was merely written by some random guy 4,000 yrs ago?

The mathematical chances of guessing the order of creation with no background knowledge of the matter is basically impossible.

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but they haven't guessed the order of creation at all, that's what I'm saying and keep pointing out. Even in that article you posted, the writer also points out he is "making a stretch" in a couple of his "points"

He's either making a stretch, not quoting the full verse or taking it out of context by not dealing with surrounding verses.
 
@Abraham said:
@tigerbalm said:
Trust me, I want to keep religion an science as far apart as possible, unfortunately you posted an article ( from huff post lolololol) trying to align current thinking on the origin of the universe to some archaic ramblings that have literally and metaphorically no similarities at all.

Still, kudos for sticking up for your dying cult. It shows character.

You do a good job of missing points and avoiding discussion on anything unaligned to your ramblings. But I suppose it makes life easier to not have to actually understand anything and just go off on tangents all the time.

As for dying cult… Hahahaha

People have been saying that for over 2,000 years, and yet Christianity is still growing year by year around the world.

Let me know when it dies out please.

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Not sure how to simplify the point any further.

Meh. No point I guess. You will just post more confused dribble.
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As for dying cult, the target audience for Christianity are the uneducated masses.Generally in poverty. This is the perfect recipe for converting a person by telling them that, although life is bad now, afterwards it's going to be great.

This will change. Technology is allowing the transfer of knowledge at an amazing rate. Your cult, like all cults before yours and all cults after yours will go the way of the dodo. Ha! Dodo…fitting.

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@Mccarry said:
@Cultured Bogan said:
@Goose said:
@Abraham said:
Of course you don't need to respect them.

These are not Christian views.

You need to differentiate between man-made fallacies such as those you quoted, and the mainstream Christian values of love, tolerance and forgiveness.

You did say earlier that we have to respect the beliefs of others??

Unfortunately many believe the above to be christian views.

**The values of love, tolerance and forgiveness** definitely should be respected, not everyone's religious views are in line with this, which was an earlier point.

We should respect the right to have beliefs, but not all beliefs need be respected. The Westboro baptist church and ISIS are 2 religious organisations that can not have their beliefs respected.

Good point. These values and religion are not mutually exclusive.

You only have to be a decent human being to espouse those virtues.

Out of interest, for those that don't believe in God how do you reconcile the concept of love?

Where does it fit within your beliefs? Why do we love?

How about doing right by others? Eg why not just take a stranger (from another society) things if you can get away with it? Why send money to starving African kids?

If there are no true consequences why play ball with societies values? Why not do what you please?

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Are you for real ? So your saying that people that don't believe in God don't do good things and don't know the meaning of love and how to love . Doing right by others ? how many pages you got before i tell you all the good deeds i have done in my life and so many others i know that don't believe in God. .
 
@tigerbalm said:
@Hbom said:
@GNR4LIFE said:
It won't happen in our lifetime sadly, but give it a couple of centuries and it will be all but gone.Atheism is expanding at a rapid rate.

True in Europe and maybe Australia. Far from true in Asia and Africa where Christianity is growing rapidly.

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Why is that you think?

Those particular regions?

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Probably calls for an essay style answer, but the short answer is God loves all people, and he will build his church his way. Communism and Islam cannot stop it. People in formerly majority Christian societies have found themselves new gods including money and God stands opposed.

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@Mccarry said:
Out of interest, for those that don't believe in God how do you reconcile the concept of love?

Where does it fit within your beliefs? Why do we love?

How about doing right by others? Eg why not just take a stranger (from another society) things if you can get away with it? Why send money to starving African kids?

If there are no true consequences why play ball with societies values? Why not do what you please?

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Love is a chemical reaction, it's a word used to describe a state of emotion.

Doing right by others, well people want themselves to be treated well by others, there's a self orientated part to it. Why send money to starving African kids? again, if I was starving I would like…...........and so on and so forth.

There are consequences, consequences for yourself and for others.

Humans can't survive on their own, they need families, societies. The only way for that to be sustainable is to get along with others.

I could ask, if you don't believe in Rati or Kama how do you reconcile the concept of love?

I could ask, why aren't more Jews stoning adulterers any more as mandated by God?

Our morality/ethics don't come from a religious text.
 
I think it might be time to call time on this lively debate,

If you believe or don't, neither side will be swayed by debate.
 
@GNR4LIFE said:
It won't happen in our lifetime sadly, but give it a couple of centuries and it will be all but gone.Atheism is expanding at a rapid rate.

\

@tigerbalm said:
Your cult, like all cults before yours and all cults after yours will go the way of the dodo. Ha! Dodo…fitting.

What miserable sods you two are.

Why would you wish that Christianity would die?

Its a religion of salvation that promotes love above all else. It doesn't call for anybody to be killed, or tortured, or segregated like other religions. It calls for us to love one another and make peace. Gee what a terrible burden on the world that must be!

You may not know it, but Christianity it the worlds largest non-government provider of education, healthcare, charity, and social services. It has also had more positive impact on mankind than any other institution throughout human history.

As I said … miserable sods.

Thankfully you are both talking out of your backsides with regards to it dying however. Had either of you bothered to do any basic research you would see that Christianity is still growing across the world, while its predicted that atheism will shrink as a proportion of the world's population over the coming decades.
 
@GNR4LIFE said:
It won't happen in our lifetime sadly, but give it a couple of centuries and it will be all but gone.Atheism is expanding at a rapid rate.

it will truly be sad if that happens and sincerely hope it doesnt. do you think the idea of atheism will stay the same as well?

like all things, the meaning of atheism will start being open to interpretation- at least with religion, there are a specific set of beliefs that a majority belive in and live by.
 
You're probably already seeing this TP.

I think there is a distinct separation between atheists and anti-theists. I think the "new age atheism" we are seeing through people like Richard Dawkins, Sam Harris, Bill Maher et al are specifically anti-theists. That is, they oppose religion and seek for it to be eradicated. They're vocal, deliberately obnoxious and uncompromising with their views (sound familiar?)

I tend to think of an atheist much like a moderate Christian/Muslim/Jew who goes about their day without pontificating to anyone and everyone. They have their beliefs (or lack thereof,) generally respect others right to have their beliefs and won't discuss it unless it is brought up. Anti-theists are your hardline mental patients who think they hold the holy grail when it comes to their take on religion and are especially belligerent.

The only real difference between atheists and anti-theists and the religious sects is that I've not seen a plethora of religious folk be exterminated by atheists for having contrary opinions/beliefs.
 
@Abraham said:
@GNR4LIFE said:
It won't happen in our lifetime sadly, but give it a couple of centuries and it will be all but gone.Atheism is expanding at a rapid rate.

\

@tigerbalm said:
Your cult, like all cults before yours and all cults after yours will go the way of the dodo. Ha! Dodo…fitting.

What miserable sods you two are.

Why would you wish that Christianity would die?

Its a religion of salvation that promotes love above all else. It doesn't call for anybody to be killed, or tortured, or segregated like other religions. It calls for us to love one another and make peace. Gee what a terrible burden on the world that must be!

You may not know it, but Christianity it the worlds largest non-government provider of education, healthcare, charity, and social services. It has also had more positive impact on mankind than any other institution throughout human history.

As I said … miserable sods.

Thankfully you are both talking out of your backsides with regards to it dying however. Had either of you bothered to do any basic research you would see that Christianity is still growing across the world, while its predicted that atheism will shrink as a proportion of the world's population over the coming decades.

I'm assuming you're more familiar with the bible than I am. Does it say anywhere in there that you should belittle and name call people with different beliefs? Insulting people isn't very Christian.
 
@Abraham said:
Its a religion of salvation that promotes love above all else. It doesn't call for anybody to be killed, or tortured, or segregated like other religions. It calls for us to love one another and make peace. Gee what a terrible burden on the world that must be!

That may be it's current intent, just a shame it's not implemented that way by many believers around the world.

Homosexuality is still condemned by many. In Uganda they very nearly passed laws to allow the killing of homosexuals, it's only life in prison now. All due to their Christian faith.

In the Central African Republic, Christian militias are busily killing Muslims.

It's not just Christianity of course, there's certainly problems and issues with other religions. I would say more so in Islam than in any other. It will take the moderates to start acknowledging the misuse, the misinterpretation maybe of their beliefs, for any progress to be made to put a stop to issues that society, on the whole, does not want.

@Abraham said:
You may not know it, but Christianity it the worlds largest non-government provider of education, healthcare, charity, and social services. It has also had more positive impact on mankind than any other institution throughout human history.

Debatable certainly, I would say Democracy has had the more positive impact.

@Abraham said:
Thankfully you are both talking out of your backsides with regards to it dying however. Had either of you bothered to do any basic research you would see that Christianity is still growing across the world, while its predicted that atheism will shrink as a proportion of the world's population over the coming decades.

Yep religiosity around the world is still growing in proportion to population rises. The highly religious countries are having more kids than the less religious. The non-religious are (depending on which survey you go to), 3rd or 4th after Christianity, Islam and Hinduism. However, in the West it's a different story, here, European countries and in the US, non-belief is growing rapidly. This is happening for a few reasons. Access to better education, better medical, more rights for women etc.

It's been seen in Iran, during the 80s they probably had the highest fertility rate, but that has decreased rapidly and that has been chalked up to the women getting more educated and being allowed more rights there. Many young people becoming more Westernized.

It will eventually happen elsewhere in other high birth rate, high religious countries.

Whether humans will eventually have no religion though, I'm not too sure. Humans love the idea of the transcendent and numinous.
 
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