There really is a God

[tig_prmz]

I don't usually mix God with science but what I believe is that God exists all around us. It's endless energy and good deeds, praying, hardwork and respecting each other gives us the energy to survive.

There are billions of stories in different religions and they all teach us something- these stories were the basis of which the laws we live and abide by are based on these stories. We have evolved from animals and our animalistic instincts have been avoided by the commandments and so called ethics.

IMO, there is no point in arguing about religion or whether God exists or not- everyone has a different definition of God.

As a kid, I was told that God can't be with us everytime so he presents himself in different forms- one form is through your parents who do endless things for you because you are their child.

I honestly don't agree with challenging other people's beliefs- just because two people have the same religion, doesn't mean they have the same set of beliefs.

 

[hobbo]

Who created God?

No one , we're all in the Matrix !

 

[happy_tiger]

Who created God?[/quote

 

[TrueTiger]

Without trying to put words in your mouth, im assuming you mean you respect his 'right' to believe, not the belief itself. Beliefs don't deserve respect.
If i told you i believe the moon is made of cheese and my dog can solve crossword puzzles would you respect those beliefs? if so why?

Why wouldn't you respect his beliefs?

As a Christian he believes in love, tolerance, forgiveness, and turning away from sin.

What part of these beliefs is not worthy of respect from you, or any other decent person, for that matter?

You seem to be on some sort of personal crusade to discredit religion, which has made your thought process on the topic become extremely narrow and spiteful.

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Tiger,if you believe that the moon is made of cheese and your dog can do crosswords,I thoroughly respect your beliefs..why do you ask,because you as a human being have a right to believe in whatever you choose without critism or disrespect to you or your belief,and this is where trouble and condemnation rear their ugly head…...I have my beliefs and if they differ from yours,that's fine,as I said we as humans have a right to believe in what we want..
Abraham has a right just as you do to believe in whatever he wants without being critised or disrespected for his beliefs....this is what sets us apart,we can choose to be different in many ways.....the trouble lies within who thinks their belief is better or more righteous than others,this is what causes wars,and from that stems the pain and heartache of people's lives and families being torn apart,innocent men,women and children die because of these wars and to me nobody has the right to take others people's lives,no matter what their beliefs are..we can go on for page after page,however in summary if the people of this world could work out how to live in harmony and peace while still having their belief,,wouldn't it be a fantastic place to live,not in fear of losing loved ones or friends and we all have peace and happiness within our hearts....cheers guys.... :smiley:

 

[Tigersman]

I do dislike some of the things the bible has but it was writing a bloody long time ago and that's just the way it was back then…. In saying that I still love my religion and nothing anyone says or does will change that... I am not trying to "Brain wash" anyone or "Spread the word" All I want is for the non-believers to respect my religion.... If its to hard for them to do so..no skin off my back I'd just rather they did..

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[Tigerdave]

1: How do you know they were not inspired by anyone other than men? and I'm not just talking about the Christian Bible here, there are hundreds of other religious texts talking about other religions.

2: Which genesis account are you talking about? there are 2 different versions in the Bible. In any event I don't see how the biblical story sets it out in the exact order, at this stage, there's nothing too concrete in regards to the creation of the universe.

So, can you explain exactly what you mean by exact order?

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Genesis 1:1-2:3

As I said, it's pretty amazing that this was accurately recorded in the Old Testament.
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1 In the beginning God created the heavens and the earth. 2 Now the earth was formless and empty, darkness was over the surface of the deep, and the Spirit of God was hovering over the waters.

3 And God said, “Let there be light,” and there was light. 4 God saw that the light was good, and he separated the light from the darkness. 5 God called the light “day,” and the darkness he called “night.” And there was evening, and there was morning—the first day.
\
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How is any of that showing the exact order of a scientific model of the creation of the universe?? The current model is the Big Bang, which is an expansion starting from a singularity.

The earth was not covered in darkness, the sun was there prior.

Your off the mark. Spend abit of time and look into it further.

Don't think I am allowed to post links, and I sure as hell am not going to type out an essay on here explaining the 6 biblical stages.

But if you are genuinely interested just google the topic and read up on it. Interesting, whether you are a believer or not.

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Googled, unfortunately, getting sites like ICR and Answers in Genesis are not that helpful as I'm not interested in going to apologetic sites like those.

 

[Abraham]

Googled, unfortunately, getting sites like ICR and Answers in Genesis are not that helpful as I'm not interested in going to apologetic sites like those.

Here's a pretty impartial article on the topic as you seem interested:

http://m.huffpost.com/us/entry/500201

There are others that give the biblical story a perfect score, but for the purposes of this argument the above article is pretty neutral, which you will probably appreciate more.

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[Tigerdave]

Tiger,if you believe that the moon is made of cheese and your dog can do crosswords,I thoroughly respect your beliefs..why do you ask,because you as a human being have a right to believe in whatever you choose without critism or disrespect to you or your belief

I don't see why such an extreme belief as that should be respected. Now, there are people who actually believe that the moon is a hologram, that the world is flat etc. They don't respect science, they don't respect those that have been to the moon, they don't respect those that study in these fields of science….............not sure why their belief should not only be respected, but free from criticism.

Adding to that, there's certainly some religious beliefs that should not be respected and most certainly should be challenged. Take the anti-homosexual laws in Uganda for example.

 

[Tigerdave]

Googled, unfortunately, getting sites like ICR and Answers in Genesis are not that helpful as I'm not interested in going to apologetic sites like those.

Here's a pretty impartial article on the topic as you seem interested:

http://m.huffpost.com/us/entry/500201

There are others that give the biblical story a perfect score, but for the purposes of this argument the above article is pretty neutral, which you will probably appreciate more.

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I'll check this out later

EDIT

The very first one

//"God said, 'Let there be light.'"

Science:
During the Big Bang, electrons caused very small packets of light making the whole universe glow.

The sun was formed 4.5 billion years ago along with the Earth.

So the start of the universe and then the start of the sun and Earth on the first day of Genesis definitely coincide with contemporary science. //

That is not the first part at all in Genesis for starters

1 In the beginning God created the heaven and the earth.

2 And the earth was without form, and void; and darkness was upon the face of the deep. And the Spirit of God moved upon the face of the waters.

The light did not come about first according to Genesis, it came about AFTER the Christian God created the heaven and the earth. To suggest that the light was the Big Bang, doesn't fit with the first 2 passages.
\
\
Onto the 2nd part

//Genesis: (Second day) – 4.5 billion to 3.75 billion years ago

"God said, 'Let there be firmament in the midst of the waters and let it separate the waters from the waters.'"

Science:

Water-rich asteroids and protoplanets collided with prehistoric earth, bringing water. Later, gaseous emissions from volcanoes added additional water. This occurred approximately 4.4 billion years ago. Over the next several billion years, as the earth cooled, water vapor began to escape and condense in the earth's early atmosphere. Clouds formed and enormous amounts of water fell on the earth. The waters were separated, water on earth and water in the atmosphere. So day two fits with science and is in the correct order. //

Massive longbow drawn. The passage refers to rain coming from the sky, not from asteroids and the firmament is heaven, nothing more as stated in the very next passage.

8 And God called the firmament Heaven. And the evening and the morning were the second day.

I think I could fill a page or 2 with responses, but that's just the opening 2.

 

[Tiger_Watto]

Who created God?

Jim & June Lewis. I dont have the date he was created, but he graced the earth for the first time on the 1st December in 1959.

 

[hobbo]

Who created God?

Jim & June Lewis. I dont have the date he was created, but he graced the earth for the first time on the 1st December in 1959.

And on rare occasions if you visit the local swamp , you might catch a glimpse
:roll

Have a good day Watto !

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[GNR4LIFE]

I was watching a YouTube Clip yesterday of an American Pastor telling his congregation to snap the wrist of their 4 yr old sons if it's limp and to punch them. Do I need to respect those views? Do I need to respect the views of the Hill Song church? What about Fred Nile who hosts a mass every yr the day of the Mardi Gras to pray for rain so the Mardi Gras gets called off. Are these views that should be respected?

 

[cktiger]

“When you have reached your own room, be kind to those who have chosen
different doors and to those who are still in the hall.”
― C.S. Lewis

 

[tigerbalm]

Hmmm

Do Christians really think that the initial singularity theory is similar to " let there be light"?? Please tell me you can see the difference?

That's like a child explaining how a car works ( put petrol in and go vroooom" and an engineer explaining internal combustion. The child is right. I guess. In a very basic, fundamental, non educated way.

I think if we had astrophysicist 2000 years ago, the bible would read very, very different.

Although they probably would of been killed as wizards. Funny how things change, the church trying to align itself with science is a sign of an organization that is scared and out of ideas.

It may not be in our lifetime but society will soon realize that organized religion is for…as a great man once said...people who are afraid of the dark.

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[Tigerdave]

Hmmm

Do Christians really think that the initial singularity theory is similar to " let there be light"?? Please tell me you can see the difference?

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Unfortunately, heaven and earth were created BEFORE the light according to Genesis.

The article provided is clearly taking an Old Earth Creationist standpoint, which is progress of a kind.

Funny how things change, the church trying to align itself with science is a sign of an organization that is scared and out of ideas.
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Well, before monotheism, lightning was caused by Thor for the Vikings, waves etc by Poseidon for the Greeks. Which is why the God of Gaps argument shouldn't be used….......those gaps are getting smaller and smaller as scientific knowledge increases.

Deists have a far easier belief.

 

[Abraham]

I was watching a YouTube Clip yesterday of an American Pastor telling his congregation to snap the wrist of their 4 yr old sons if it's limp and to punch them. Do I need to respect those views? Do I need to respect the views of the Hill Song church? What about Fred Nile who hosts a mass every yr the day of the Mardi Gras to pray for rain so the Mardi Gras gets called off. Are these views that should be respected?

Of course you don't need to respect them.

These are not Christian views.

You need to differentiate between man-made fallacies such as those you quoted, and the mainstream Christian values of love, tolerance and forgiveness.

 

[Abraham]

Hmmm

Do Christians really think that the initial singularity theory is similar to " let there be light"?? Please tell me you can see the difference?

That's like a child explaining how a car works ( put petrol in and go vroooom" and an engineer explaining internal combustion. The child is right. I guess. In a very basic, fundamental, non educated way.

I think if we had astrophysicist 2000 years ago, the bible would read very, very different.

Although they probably would of been killed as wizards. Funny how things change, the church trying to align itself with science is a sign of an organization that is scared and out of ideas.

It may not be in our lifetime but society will soon realize that organized religion is for…as a great man once said...people who are afraid of the dark.

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The Bible is not a scientific text book, and was never intended to be so.

What would be the purpose of explaining astrophysics to a bunch of desert dwelling Jews who could neither read nor write, and did not even know what a magnifying glass was? Its much easier to speak to the intended audience in simple language, giving simple examples, thus allowing a simple understanding.

If you're not sure what the word 'context' means, look it up in the dictionary and that will help you out next time you want to discuss the Bible.

 

[Abraham]

Unfortunately, heaven and earth were created BEFORE the light according to Genesis.

Umm no, they weren't.

Day 1 - God said let there be light.

The article provided is clearly taking an Old Earth Creationist standpoint, which is progress of a kind.

The article was written by David Wolper. A TV producer who was famous for his National Geographic productions.

His conclusion:
_"When Genesis was written about 4000 years ago, humans were almost universally illiterate. The alphabet was being perfected, writing (not hieroglyphics) was still new, calendars were still not perfected, and books and paper didn't even exist.\
\
But nevertheless, the writers of the Bible somehow figured out that creation occurred first with the universe, then the Earth, then light, then water, then land rising out of the water to separate land and sea, all in the proper order according to contemporary science.\
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Then, most amazingly of all, these ancient Hebrew scholars and Old Testament writers figured out, in accordance with modern science, that the origins of life started in the water. Scientific information on the subject was not developed until over 3500 years later.\
\
Of course, the religious interpretation has a different answer to these questions. They say that Genesis is correct because when Moses wrote the first four chapters of Genesis, he received the information directly from God. So the creation of Earth and life is as God reported it. If a few things in Genesis are out of order, maybe science will later discover that Genesis was right.\
\
So there you have it, the Bible and science.\
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The beginnings of earth and life as reported by Genesis correspond very closely with current scientific knowledge.\
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Did ancient man write Genesis without the help of God?\
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The answer is yes and no. It's a matter of pure faith and belief. "_

 

[simonthetiger]

IMO whether there is a divine being or not is completely irrelevant.

Live ur life,have fun,be silly,love,dance,cheer,laugh,shag,drink beer.

It'll work itself out one way or the other!

 

[Goose]

I was watching a YouTube Clip yesterday of an American Pastor telling his congregation to snap the wrist of their 4 yr old sons if it's limp and to punch them. Do I need to respect those views? Do I need to respect the views of the Hill Song church? What about Fred Nile who hosts a mass every yr the day of the Mardi Gras to pray for rain so the Mardi Gras gets called off. Are these views that should be respected?

Agree.

Im happy for people to have beliefs as long as those beliefs do not hamper others.

The catholic church (and a number of other christian denominations) attempting to block same sex marriage and alienating homosexuals is not ok.

The behaviours of the Westboro baptist church are not ok

Some extreme islamic beliefs are not ok.

It is ok to believe in something, as long as those beliefs do not encroach on the rights of others.