Thread closed?

@happy_tiger said in [Thread closed?](/post/1066431) said:
@TIGER said in [Thread closed?](/post/1066430) said:
@happy_tiger said in [Thread closed?](/post/1066426) said:
So many claim not to believe in a God , yet every week pray we win ......... go figure

Prayer is like masterbation, it does nothing for the person being thought of. It only makes the person doing it feel better

People have superstitions whatever it may be ...no different

Do you sit in the same lounge chair at home when you watch the Tigers play .....drink from the same coffee cup , use the same stubby cooler .....etc etc etc

Only have one lounge chair where I watch from so yes, but not because of superstition.
Don't drink coffee
Mostly use my Tigers stubby cooler because....well I love it, not because of superstition.
And I've never prayed for a Tigers win because prayer has the same statistical chance as no prayer or random chance.

Roll a dice a hundred times and pray for a six, write down how many sixes you got.
Roll it again and don't pray, write down how many sixes.

Superstition ain't the way
 
@mike said in [Thread closed?](/post/1066272) said:
@fair-dinkum said in [Thread closed?](/post/1066253) said:
@cktiger said in [Thread closed?](/post/1066215) said:
Probably because those who don't believe in a God belittle those who do by basically stating they're idiots.
Those who believe are marked as rational, logical and full of good old common sense.
What does that infer they consider the ones who do?
**The one thing these people can't do, however, is totally disprove the idea.**
Each to their own.
As long as people are respectful of each each others views without denigrating them there shouldn't be a problem.

**The one thing these people can't do, however, is totally disprove the idea.**

Truth matters.

The burden of proof is on the person making the positive claim, not the person saying i dont believe you because you have failed to provide a single piece of non anecdotal evidence. Logic 101.


Yep. You can’t prove a negative. The burden of proof rests solely with those making the positive claim.

Well, you seem to be making a positive claim that there is no God ... what proof do you have there isn't?
 
@cktiger said in [Thread closed?](/post/1066439) said:
@mike said in [Thread closed?](/post/1066272) said:
@fair-dinkum said in [Thread closed?](/post/1066253) said:
@cktiger said in [Thread closed?](/post/1066215) said:
Probably because those who don't believe in a God belittle those who do by basically stating they're idiots.
Those who believe are marked as rational, logical and full of good old common sense.
What does that infer they consider the ones who do?
**The one thing these people can't do, however, is totally disprove the idea.**
Each to their own.
As long as people are respectful of each each others views without denigrating them there shouldn't be a problem.

**The one thing these people can't do, however, is totally disprove the idea.**

Truth matters.

The burden of proof is on the person making the positive claim, not the person saying i dont believe you because you have failed to provide a single piece of non anecdotal evidence. Logic 101.


Yep. You can’t prove a negative. The burden of proof rests solely with those making the positive claim.

Well, you seem to be making a positive claim that there is no God ... what proof do you have there isn't?

Never said one way or the other. Isn’t is a negative and you can’t prove a negative, so I have no proof.
 
@TIGER said in [Thread closed?](/post/1066434) said:
@happy_tiger said in [Thread closed?](/post/1066431) said:
@TIGER said in [Thread closed?](/post/1066430) said:
@happy_tiger said in [Thread closed?](/post/1066426) said:
So many claim not to believe in a God , yet every week pray we win ......... go figure

Prayer is like masterbation, it does nothing for the person being thought of. It only makes the person doing it feel better

People have superstitions whatever it may be ...no different

Do you sit in the same lounge chair at home when you watch the Tigers play .....drink from the same coffee cup , use the same stubby cooler .....etc etc etc

Only have one lounge chair where I watch from so yes, but not because of superstition.
Don't drink coffee
Mostly use my Tigers stubby cooler because....well I love it, not because of superstition.
And I've never prayed for a Tigers win because prayer has the same statistical chance as no prayer or random chance.

Roll a dice a hundred times and pray for a six, write down how many sixes you got.
Roll it again and don't pray, write down how many sixes.

Superstition ain't the way

Your superstitious ...why not use any stubby cooler

What's the difference between superstition and religion .......
 
@happy_tiger said in [Thread closed?](/post/1066442) said:
@TIGER said in [Thread closed?](/post/1066434) said:
@happy_tiger said in [Thread closed?](/post/1066431) said:
@TIGER said in [Thread closed?](/post/1066430) said:
@happy_tiger said in [Thread closed?](/post/1066426) said:
So many claim not to believe in a God , yet every week pray we win ......... go figure

Prayer is like masterbation, it does nothing for the person being thought of. It only makes the person doing it feel better

People have superstitions whatever it may be ...no different

Do you sit in the same lounge chair at home when you watch the Tigers play .....drink from the same coffee cup , use the same stubby cooler .....etc etc etc

Only have one lounge chair where I watch from so yes, but not because of superstition.
Don't drink coffee
Mostly use my Tigers stubby cooler because....well I love it, not because of superstition.
And I've never prayed for a Tigers win because prayer has the same statistical chance as no prayer or random chance.

Roll a dice a hundred times and pray for a six, write down how many sixes you got.
Roll it again and don't pray, write down how many sixes.

Superstition ain't the way

Your superstitious ...why not use any stubby cooler

Because the Tigers one is sentimental...Just a guess.
 
@GNR4LIFE said in [Thread closed?](/post/1066443) said:
@happy_tiger said in [Thread closed?](/post/1066442) said:
@TIGER said in [Thread closed?](/post/1066434) said:
@happy_tiger said in [Thread closed?](/post/1066431) said:
@TIGER said in [Thread closed?](/post/1066430) said:
@happy_tiger said in [Thread closed?](/post/1066426) said:
So many claim not to believe in a God , yet every week pray we win ......... go figure

Prayer is like masterbation, it does nothing for the person being thought of. It only makes the person doing it feel better

People have superstitions whatever it may be ...no different

Do you sit in the same lounge chair at home when you watch the Tigers play .....drink from the same coffee cup , use the same stubby cooler .....etc etc etc

Only have one lounge chair where I watch from so yes, but not because of superstition.
Don't drink coffee
Mostly use my Tigers stubby cooler because....well I love it, not because of superstition.
And I've never prayed for a Tigers win because prayer has the same statistical chance as no prayer or random chance.

Roll a dice a hundred times and pray for a six, write down how many sixes you got.
Roll it again and don't pray, write down how many sixes.

Superstition ain't the way

Your superstitious ...why not use any stubby cooler

Because the Tigers one is sentimental...Just a guess.

Then why not preserve it then ......

Subconsciously everyone has a minor superstition some don't even know it
 
@TIGER said in [Thread closed?](/post/1066427) said:
@cktiger said in [Thread closed?](/post/1066266) said:
@fair-dinkum said in [Thread closed?](/post/1066253) said:
@cktiger said in [Thread closed?](/post/1066215) said:
Probably because those who don't believe in a God belittle those who do by basically stating they're idiots.
Those who believe are marked as rational, logical and full of good old common sense.
What does that infer they consider the ones who do?
**The one thing these people can't do, however, is totally disprove the idea.**
Each to their own.
As long as people are respectful of each each others views without denigrating them there shouldn't be a problem.

**The one thing these people can't do, however, is totally disprove the idea.**

Truth matters.

**The burden of proof is on the person making the positive claim**, not the person saying i dont believe you because you have failed to provide a single piece of non anecdotal evidence. **Logic 101.**

I think you've got it the wrong way around.
If you want to debunk someone's belief then you should be able to prove why they're wrong.
Now that's Logic 101.
I'm no bible basher, nor do I attend church ... but I can't think of a way to categorically disprove their may be a God.
Can you?

So using your logic
If I claim that unicorns, fairies, goblins, elves exist and you can't prove they don't, then you must believe that they do?

You must believe in a hell of a lot of crap if that's how you work, lots of things can't be proven to not exist.

Do you agree with this statement?
The right time to believe something exists is when sufficient evidence is presented to warrant belief in it, not a second before.

Fair enough then.
Can you prove to me what caused the big bang that you obviously believe in and what was in existence prior to that?
 
I have them ...heaps of them ..........have particular shirts I wear when going to games ......make coffees during EPL games (started when I was doing to keep myself awake )
 
@cktiger Christians believe that God doesn’t exist within time, so you can’t comprehend or will never understand theological questions such as “how was God created?”, “what was before God?” Etc..

the Big Bang is evidence of that, showing that time and space is temporary where God is rather eternal living.
 
@cktiger said in [Thread closed?](/post/1066445) said:
@TIGER said in [Thread closed?](/post/1066427) said:
@cktiger said in [Thread closed?](/post/1066266) said:
@fair-dinkum said in [Thread closed?](/post/1066253) said:
@cktiger said in [Thread closed?](/post/1066215) said:
Probably because those who don't believe in a God belittle those who do by basically stating they're idiots.
Those who believe are marked as rational, logical and full of good old common sense.
What does that infer they consider the ones who do?
**The one thing these people can't do, however, is totally disprove the idea.**
Each to their own.
As long as people are respectful of each each others views without denigrating them there shouldn't be a problem.

**The one thing these people can't do, however, is totally disprove the idea.**

Truth matters.

**The burden of proof is on the person making the positive claim**, not the person saying i dont believe you because you have failed to provide a single piece of non anecdotal evidence. **Logic 101.**

I think you've got it the wrong way around.
If you want to debunk someone's belief then you should be able to prove why they're wrong.
Now that's Logic 101.
I'm no bible basher, nor do I attend church ... but I can't think of a way to categorically disprove their may be a God.
Can you?

So using your logic
If I claim that unicorns, fairies, goblins, elves exist and you can't prove they don't, then you must believe that they do?

You must believe in a hell of a lot of crap if that's how you work, lots of things can't be proven to not exist.

Do you agree with this statement?
The right time to believe something exists is when sufficient evidence is presented to warrant belief in it, not a second before.

Fair enough then.
Can you prove to me what caused the big bang that you obviously believe in and what was in existence prior to that?

No, science has not been able to answer that yet and maybe never will. But that does not prove that it was God. It does leave room for more than one possible answer though.
 
@Sart0ri science will never be able to prove it because it relies on cause and effect, it has limitations.
 
I haven't been following this thread too closely, but i have noticed a recurring theme of 'proof'.

It seems some here are suggesting that atheism is the default position, and any other views require some sort of proof apart from atheism.

Of course that's not the case.

The only default and absolutely concrete position, is that we exist. We are here, living on planet earth, as a part of a vast universe. That is all we know to be true.

The question following from that reality then becomes: how did we come to exist?

An atheist will take the position of naturalism. i.e. that we are here by natural forces that conspired in the vastness of time to create the universe and all that it contains.

A Christian will content that we are here through the creation of an Intelligent Designer, who created the Universe, and all that it contains.

Now people will obviously call me biased for writing that a natural beginning to the universe not only doesn't make logical sense, but has also been basically written off as a realistic theory by many great modern (atheist) scientists. It might surprise people to know that even Richard Dawkins has abandoned naturalism as a realistic theory for the creation of the universe. He supports the theory that aliens from other dimensions created us (amazing how un-scientific a scientist will become to avoid including God in their theories).

On the other hand i support the Christian position that a creator (God) is the guiding hand behind creation. This is based on ontological, teleological and cosmological arguments among others. It is also based on years of studying the Gospels and determining them to be reliable.

I spent years listening to and reading everything i could get my hands on. Atheists, Theologians, Scientists, Philosophers, you name it. I brought a library worth of books in the process. This is not to say i couldn't be wrong in my conclusions, but i am in a firm place with regards to my beliefs because they have been built on a solid foundation of research and learning.

I can guarantee everyone here that we are not going to solve the "God" question by arguing on a footy forum. But if people are actually serious about this question,
they should do as much reading, listening, and watching as possible from people on both sides of the argument, and make a determination based on an honest appraisal of the material. Try be open minded, and abandon your bias as hard as that might be at first. If you do, you will ultimately end up in a much better place than when you started.

Again just my view, but if God exists then what is at stake here for everyone is quite literally where you will spend eternity. That's a long time to gamble on, so just be sure you know why you believe what you do.
 
@Madge said in [Thread closed?](/post/1066451) said:
@Sart0ri science will never be able to prove it because it relies on cause and effect, it has limitations.

That is an opinion stated as a fact.

There is still a lot to learn about the universe and some of these areas may show the answers. We know very little about dark matter and exotic particles for example.

Humans may create a time machine, go back and observe the big bang.
Aliens may turn up and show us the video that they took of the big bang.

I'm not saying the last two are very likely, but you can't prove they won't happen.
 
@Abraham said in [Thread closed?](/post/1066453) said:
The only default and absolutely concrete position, is that we exist. We are here, living on planet earth, as a part of a vast universe. That is all we know to be true.
[/QUOTE][/QUOTE]

Nope, there are a few theories that this is a simulation. We actually know nothing.

@Abraham said in [Thread closed?](/post/1066453) said:
>Richard Dawkins has abandoned naturalism as a realistic theory for the creation of the universe. He supports the theory that aliens from other dimensions created us (amazing how un-scientific a scientist will become to avoid including God in their theories).

I can't see any useful difference between advanced aliens and your God, they are the same *deus ex machina* solution. As Arthur C Clarke said "Any sufficiently advanced technology is indistinguishable from magic."

@Abraham said in [Thread closed?](/post/1066453) said:
>Again just my view, but if God exists then what is at stake here for everyone is quite literally where you will spend eternity. That’s a long time to gamble on, so just be sure you know why you believe what you do.

Fear of the unknown does not prove the existence of God. This was Pascal's Wager - he argued that a rational person should live as though God exists and seek to believe in God. If God does not actually exist, such a person will have only a finite loss (some pleasures, luxury, etc.), whereas he stands to receive infinite gains (as represented by eternity in Heaven) and avoid infinite losses (eternity in Hell)
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Pascal%27s_wager
 
@Abraham
"literally where you will spend eternity"
If you can't baffle em, scare em.
What was that quote again about being afraid of the dark?
That is another thing I object to about religion. You gotta sign up to one club or another. It is not as simple as, there might be a god but I don't know which is THE ONE so ok I'll behave myself. NO. If ya aint a member of this club yer goin to hell.
 
@happy_tiger said in [Thread closed?](/post/1066442) said:
@TIGER said in [Thread closed?](/post/1066434) said:
@happy_tiger said in [Thread closed?](/post/1066431) said:
@TIGER said in [Thread closed?](/post/1066430) said:
@happy_tiger said in [Thread closed?](/post/1066426) said:
So many claim not to believe in a God , yet every week pray we win ......... go figure

Prayer is like masterbation, it does nothing for the person being thought of. It only makes the person doing it feel better

People have superstitions whatever it may be ...no different

Do you sit in the same lounge chair at home when you watch the Tigers play .....drink from the same coffee cup , use the same stubby cooler .....etc etc etc

Only have one lounge chair where I watch from so yes, but not because of superstition.
Don't drink coffee
Mostly use my Tigers stubby cooler because....well I love it, not because of superstition.
And I've never prayed for a Tigers win because prayer has the same statistical chance as no prayer or random chance.

Roll a dice a hundred times and pray for a six, write down how many sixes you got.
Roll it again and don't pray, write down how many sixes.

Superstition ain't the way

Your superstitious ...why not use any stubby cooler

What's the difference between superstition and religion .......

Billions upon billions of dollars and then some.
 
@Abraham said in [Thread closed?](/post/1066453) said:
I haven't been following this thread too closely, but i have noticed a recurring theme of 'proof'.

It seems some here are suggesting that atheism is the default position, and any other views require some sort of proof apart from atheism.

Of course that's not the case.

The only default and absolutely concrete position, is that we exist. We are here, living on planet earth, as a part of a vast universe. That is all we know to be true.

The question following from that reality then becomes: how did we come to exist?

An atheist will take the position of naturalism. i.e. that we are here by natural forces that conspired in the vastness of time to create the universe and all that it contains.

A Christian will content that we are here through the creation of an Intelligent Designer, who created the Universe, and all that it contains.

Now people will obviously call me biased for writing that a natural beginning to the universe not only doesn't make logical sense, but has also been basically written off as a realistic theory by many great modern (atheist) scientists. It might surprise people to know that even Richard Dawkins has abandoned naturalism as a realistic theory for the creation of the universe. He supports the theory that aliens from other dimensions created us (amazing how un-scientific a scientist will become to avoid including God in their theories).

On the other hand i support the Christian position that a creator (God) is the guiding hand behind creation. This is based on ontological, teleological and cosmological arguments among others. It is also based on years of studying the Gospels and determining them to be reliable.

I spent years listening to and reading everything i could get my hands on. Atheists, Theologians, Scientists, Philosophers, you name it. I brought a library worth of books in the process. This is not to say i couldn't be wrong in my conclusions, but i am in a firm place with regards to my beliefs because they have been built on a solid foundation of research and learning.

I can guarantee everyone here that we are not going to solve the "God" question by arguing on a footy forum. But if people are actually serious about this question,
they should do as much reading, listening, and watching as possible from people on both sides of the argument, and make a determination based on an honest appraisal of the material. Try be open minded, and abandon your bias as hard as that might be at first. If you do, you will ultimately end up in a much better place than when you started.

Again just my view, but if God exists then what is at stake here for everyone is quite literally where you will spend eternity. That's a long time to gamble on, so just be sure you know why you believe what you do.

You were going pretty good till that last paragraph.
 
@mike said in [Thread closed?](/post/1066441) said:
@cktiger said in [Thread closed?](/post/1066439) said:
@mike said in [Thread closed?](/post/1066272) said:
@fair-dinkum said in [Thread closed?](/post/1066253) said:
@cktiger said in [Thread closed?](/post/1066215) said:
Probably because those who don't believe in a God belittle those who do by basically stating they're idiots.
Those who believe are marked as rational, logical and full of good old common sense.
What does that infer they consider the ones who do?
**The one thing these people can't do, however, is totally disprove the idea.**
Each to their own.
As long as people are respectful of each each others views without denigrating them there shouldn't be a problem.

**The one thing these people can't do, however, is totally disprove the idea.**

Truth matters.

The burden of proof is on the person making the positive claim, not the person saying i dont believe you because you have failed to provide a single piece of non anecdotal evidence. Logic 101.


Yep. You can’t prove a negative. The burden of proof rests solely with those making the positive claim.

Well, you seem to be making a positive claim that there is no God ... what proof do you have there isn't?

Never said one way or the other. Isn’t is a negative and you can’t prove a negative, so I have no proof.


No proof or a need to for mine.
 
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