Troubled Tigers - my first post

[Tiger_Watto]

As sad as it is Sheens job is as safe as a bank. Not once in almost 10 yrs has there ever been one hint of pressure from within the media on him. Never known another coach who seemingly has control over the board, at any sane club it's usually the other way around. The WT board have the spine of a paramecium

The board are probably sensitive to who holds the purse strings… Harry is a big contributor and considering the relationship Harry & Sheens have, its probably more difficult to make change than some may think.

Rugby League is a very very political scheme... Some people may have Aces for now, but the smart people will keep chipping away till they have a hand to take the pot!

 

[tiger4ever]

good post maybe write a letter…..they will reply....or if they dont.... front up at training maybe might be a idea

 

[tigerbalm]

The Wests Tigers love mediocrity. They embrace it. They reward it. Their players, coaching staff, sponsors and corporate bosses accept it. Their fans have become conditioned to it, and now we’re all paying the price. If you’re going to bring up the “true fan” rubbish then stop reading now. Just stop. You won’t enjoy this.

<^TigerBrad^>

It comes down to fan's expectations. Considering where we have come from, mediocrity is not too shabby. From 1960 - 1999 we contested just 7 grand finals out of a possible 78 seasons, winning just the one (1969). In between it was mid table finishes with a handful of semi finals appearances. There were a few wooden spoons to throw in as well.

In reality, Wests Tigers have continued this tradition, with the exception of not winning spoons. So far so good in my humble opinion, because we could take the short term option of gambling on massive signings and going through coach after coach. This is the Parramatta and Sydney Roosters method. Problem is, it can pay off short term with a GF appearance, but then you crash just as quickly as you can't keep making the big signings.

I think the strategy of using our junior pool moreso than other clubs serves us well over the long term.

I don't understand your first paragraph. Western suburbs won a couple through the 30' , 40's and 52 obviously…. Dont say " we" unless you mean it....my pet hate.
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[innsaneink]

Please… :unamused:

front up at training unnannounced asking to speak to a CEO/head coach....even I have to make an appt to see my boss...and we already have a professional r/ship.

They wont reply.

 

[tig_prmz]

The Wests Tigers love mediocrity. They embrace it. They reward it. Their players, coaching staff, sponsors and corporate bosses accept it. Their fans have become conditioned to it, and now we’re all paying the price. If you’re going to bring up the “true fan” rubbish then stop reading now. Just stop. You won’t enjoy this.

<^TigerBrad^>

It comes down to fan's expectations. Considering where we have come from, mediocrity is not too shabby. From 1960 - 1999 we contested just 7 grand finals out of a possible 78 seasons, winning just the one (1969). In between it was mid table finishes with a handful of semi finals appearances. There were a few wooden spoons to throw in as well.

In reality, Wests Tigers have continued this tradition, with the exception of not winning spoons. So far so good in my humble opinion, because we could take the short term option of gambling on massive signings and going through coach after coach. This is the Parramatta and Sydney Roosters method. Problem is, it can pay off short term with a GF appearance, but then you crash just as quickly as you can't keep making the big signings.

I think the strategy of using our junior pool moreso than other clubs serves us well over the long term.

I don't understand your first paragraph. Western suburbs won a couple through the 30' , 40's and 52 obviously…. Dont say " we" unless you mean it....my pet hate.
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oh please dont go there.. PLEASE DONT PLEASE DONT PLEASE DONT

 

[tiger4ever]

Please… :unamused:

front up at training unnannounced asking to speak to a CEO/head coach....even I have to make an appt to see my boss...and we already have a professional r/ship.

They wont reply.

sarcasm detector turned off ink….there you go he may have to make a appointment then ah.

 

[Guest]

Ok, so people are entitled to have a whinge, or defend the coaching staff and players…that's fine. But at the end of the day, what is the solution?

And when I say solution, I mean realistic solution. Is Sheens under pressure to hold his job for next year? Have any players been put on notice? Are we cashed up enough to buy a top halfback or another prop?

I fear unless a major attitude change occurs throughout the club over the off-season, new policies and procedures are out in place, then I fear we'll see a repeat of this year, next year. Why? Because I don't believe Sheens contract will be torn up or paid out, I don't think we'll see a mass clean out of players and we clearly are not in the market for a top shelf halfback.

Are they not valid concerns though Willow? We have seen a worrying trend here where a number of key (and well paid,) players are just not performing to expectations. Just because we don't foresee a change, doesn't mean that it may not be called for.

They may well be valid CB, I'm not arguing that. I'm talking about what can or will happen to solve it. Fair enough for us to identify problems and discuss them, but in many ways we set ourselves up to fall down, because in reality, nothing is really done to fix the problem by those in power who have the ability to change things. And our rants/bickering/debates continue unabated…

 

[regit]

Hi all, this is a blog I put together for a Facebook page/website I mess about with with a couple of mates. Thought I'd share, given the tough run we're going through. In a weird way, writing this was something of a cleansing experience…

The Wests Tigers love mediocrity. They embrace it. They reward it. Their players, coaching staff, sponsors and corporate bosses accept it. Their fans have become conditioned to it, and now we’re all paying the price. If you’re going to bring up the “true fan” rubbish then stop reading now. Just stop. You won’t enjoy this.

The current crop of Wests Tigers are the biggest underachievers of the modern era. Forget the Dragons of the early 2000s, this lot puts them to shame. The Tigers have nine internationals on their books – nine. For those playing at home, Adam Blair, Gareth Ellis, Robbie Farah, Chris Heighington, Keith Galloway, Chris Lawrence, Benji Marshall, Lote Tuqiri and Matt Utai have all represented their country.

Throw in Liam Fulton, Tim Moltzen, Joel Reddy and Aaron Woods, who have all played City v Country, and Tim Sheens has 13 representative players at his disposal. That’s a whole team by the way, and the perfect number for Sheens considering he never uses his bench.

Put simply, the coach has lost the team. Key players have quit on the only coach they’ve ever known. The players have packed it up for 2012 but don’t kid yourself, this is all on Sheens. The game has changed, the Tigers haven’t. Marshall and Farah still make rookie mistakes. They still kick the ball out on the full every week. They still run the same ineffective scrum plays every week.

The Tigers have had 31 halves combinations in nine years. If David Furner or Stephen Kearney were running the show fans would absolutely riot. But at the Wests Tigers, with Sheens and Benji in charge, it’s accepted. It’s normal. It’s more of the same.

This isn’t about kicking the players while they’re down. This is about reclaiming the team I love. The team I have cheered for and cried for since I watched the 1988 Grand Final in a little house in the heart of Leichhardt. Mediocrity is for mugs, and this Wests Tigers fan deserves better. We all do.

Are u Timsheenanigans on Twitter?
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[Alf_Duguid]

Out of interest, what is the relationship alluded to between Harry and Tim?
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[Cultured_Bogan]

Ok, so people are entitled to have a whinge, or defend the coaching staff and players…that's fine. But at the end of the day, what is the solution?

And when I say solution, I mean realistic solution. Is Sheens under pressure to hold his job for next year? Have any players been put on notice? Are we cashed up enough to buy a top halfback or another prop?

I fear unless a major attitude change occurs throughout the club over the off-season, new policies and procedures are out in place, then I fear we'll see a repeat of this year, next year. Why? Because I don't believe Sheens contract will be torn up or paid out, I don't think we'll see a mass clean out of players and we clearly are not in the market for a top shelf halfback.

Are they not valid concerns though Willow? We have seen a worrying trend here where a number of key (and well paid,) players are just not performing to expectations. Just because we don't foresee a change, doesn't mean that it may not be called for.

They may well be valid CB, I'm not arguing that. I'm talking about what can or will happen to solve it. Fair enough for us to identify problems and discuss them, but in many ways we set ourselves up to fall down, because in reality, nothing is really done to fix the problem by those in power who have the ability to change things. And our rants/bickering/debates continue unabated…

It's a catch 22\. By campaigning for change we're bashing our heads against a brick wall, but by going quiet we're accepting mediocrity. Something has to be done though…

 

[innsaneink]

Something has to be done though…

Expect nothing new.
What I'm doing now.

 

[RatedRKO]

It comes down to fan's expectations. Considering where we have come from, mediocrity is not too shabby. From 1960 - 1999 we contested just 7 grand finals out of a possible 78 seasons, winning just the one (1969). In between it was mid table finishes with a handful of semi finals appearances. There were a few wooden spoons to throw in as well.

I think this is a part of the problem on the fans side. I've seen it a few times on here. I'm not bagging out the Balmain or Western Suburbs supporters, but it seems a lot of them are happy with the odd finals appearance because the clubs pre-merge weren't very successful. We shouldn't be happy with mediocrity, especially with the talent we have in our side. If Melbourne were running like we were, their fans would be blowing up. We should too.

Are they not valid concerns though Willow? We have seen a worrying trend here where a number of key (and well paid,) players are just not performing to expectations. Just because we don't foresee a change, doesn't mean that it may not be called for.

I think it's good to talk about concerns and possible solutions. The more people get behind it, the more chance it has of happening. Eventually the media will get onto it and Sheens hopefully won't be as protected as he is now. The club can only ignore so much.

 

[hybrid_tiger]

Hi all, this is a blog I put together for a Facebook page/website I mess about with with a couple of mates. Thought I'd share, given the tough run we're going through. In a weird way, writing this was something of a cleansing experience…

The Wests Tigers love mediocrity. They embrace it. They reward it. Their players, coaching staff, sponsors and corporate bosses accept it. Their fans have become conditioned to it, and now we’re all paying the price. If you’re going to bring up the “true fan” rubbish then stop reading now. Just stop. You won’t enjoy this.

The current crop of Wests Tigers are the biggest underachievers of the modern era. Forget the Dragons of the early 2000s, this lot puts them to shame. The Tigers have nine internationals on their books – nine. For those playing at home, Adam Blair, Gareth Ellis, Robbie Farah, Chris Heighington, Keith Galloway, Chris Lawrence, Benji Marshall, Lote Tuqiri and Matt Utai have all represented their country.

Throw in Liam Fulton, Tim Moltzen, Joel Reddy and Aaron Woods, who have all played City v Country, and Tim Sheens has 13 representative players at his disposal. That’s a whole team by the way, and the perfect number for Sheens considering he never uses his bench.

Put simply, the coach has lost the team. Key players have quit on the only coach they’ve ever known. The players have packed it up for 2012 but don’t kid yourself, this is all on Sheens. The game has changed, the Tigers haven’t. Marshall and Farah still make rookie mistakes. They still kick the ball out on the full every week. They still run the same ineffective scrum plays every week.

The Tigers have had 31 halves combinations in nine years. If David Furner or Stephen Kearney were running the show fans would absolutely riot. But at the Wests Tigers, with Sheens and Benji in charge, it’s accepted. It’s normal. It’s more of the same.

This isn’t about kicking the players while they’re down. This is about reclaiming the team I love. The team I have cheered for and cried for since I watched the 1988 Grand Final in a little house in the heart of Leichhardt. Mediocrity is for mugs, and this Wests Tigers fan deserves better. We all do.

<^TigerBrad^>

Brilliant, the best first post I have ever read on any forum, ever. I agree with every word, particularly mediocrity. This club and a large majority of its fans just accept it.

Well said mate, please email that to Stephen Humphries. He will reply.

 

[Gary_Bakerloo]

I don't understand your first paragraph. Western suburbs won a couple through the 30' , 40's and 52 obviously…. Dont say " we" unless you mean it....my pet hate.

I was referring to the period from 1960 onwards because we (Wests and Balmain) were nowhere near as successful in this period compared to 1908 - 1959 (15 premierships, 10 runners up). With the exception of some brief good years for Wests (61-63, 78-82, 91-92) and Balmain (64-69, 85-90), the clubs were on the slide which culminated in the merger. I was just trying to illustrate that Wests Tigers are an improvement on the most recent historical performance (ie: 1960 onwards) of the two foundation clubs.

 

[Gary_Bakerloo]

we've had our fair share of "massive" signings

I would argue not as many as other clubs, but happy to be corrected.

Look I'm not attacking you… but sheens can't keep living on the past.
he has made mistakes and he never learns from them. so many people see it, there is only a minority which dont... unfortunately they're the ones that matter the most.

I know you are not attacking me, you are critiquing my post - that is fine.

I understand Sheens makes strange decisions, but usually there are mitigating circumstances such as injuries. His biggest failure as a coach for Wests Tigers is the inability to purchase or develop a first grade halfback since 2006\. Lui almost solved this problem, but even then, he was converted from 5/8.

 

[tiger_rocket]

His biggest failure as a coach for Wests Tigers is the inability to purchase or develop a first grade halfback since 2006\. Lui almost solved this problem, but even then, he was converted from 5/8.
I totally agree this is a failure but throughout this time the game particularly in nsw has been short of quality half backs. Look at SOO. Roy Masters did an article in the Herald last weekend about mid league and mod league and that due to the two pass rule they are coached to put the least likely kids into first and second receiver and as a consequence we are not seeing genuine halfbacks come through the grades. I think everybody knows that we need a quality halfback but they don't come on to the market very often and when they do you have to pay over the odds for them ala Sandow. BTW I think we dodged a bullet there but he will look like an immortal on Monday night.
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[Tigersmurf]

I think the best part of your post was use of the word "develop". I don't think Sheens develops players, in fact in the case of Benji I think he tries to hold them back. I understand why as he is trying to build structure but it is not working. All it has done is taken the rugby league player out of Benji Marshall.

Surely a coaches job is to sign players that have some skills that you can work with and develop. He has had an opportunity with Miller to do so. Maybe he has attempted to but we don't see it. Maybe Miller doesn't respond to the coach. If he was in first grade and failed then we might be able to judge.

If Fulton fails on Monday then why didn't he just take the risk on Miller?

 

[Tommy Magpie]

there are two parts of solving a problem

1\. identify the problem
2\. fix it

(1) hasn't been done yet.

Wrong - there are 3 parts. The first part is admit there is a problem.

 

[AmericanHistoryX]

exactly. 3 parts. Our problem is we can acknowledge the first part.
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[kh_canada]

I think the best part of your post was use of the word "develop". I don't think Sheens develops players, in fact in the case of Benji I think he tries to hold them back. I understand why as he is trying to build structure but it is not working. All it has done is taken the rugby league player out of Benji Marshall.

Surely a coaches job is to sign players that have some skills that you can work with and develop. He has had an opportunity with Miller to do so. Maybe he has attempted to but we don't see it. Maybe Miller doesn't respond to the coach. If he was in first grade and failed then we might be able to judge.

If Fulton fails on Monday then why didn't he just take the risk on Miller?

Tim Moltzen trained all off season at half, why isnt Sheens using him there and Beau at FB?

The guy is stubborn he'll continue to play players out of position
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