WESTS TIGERS - COACH IVAN CLEARY..OFFICIAL

[southerntiger]

What I take out of these stats is that our perception of a coach's record is often very different to reality.

That being said, a lot of players praise Cleary and if he gets us the players, then Im all good. IMO a good playing list is more important than a good coach.

 

[southerntiger]

http://m.nrl.com/panthers-2015-season-review/tabid/10874/newsid/89577/default.aspx

2015 when panthers came second last they had a dozen players out throughout the year. Ten players were injured when the season was finished. He used 11 different halves combos. No coach could do well with that injury rate.

Sure. Like Sheens in 2012\. It happens. But the fact remains he only had 1 successful season out of 4.

 

[happy_tiger]

Penrith record:

2010 - 2nd (Matthew Elliott
2011 - 12th (Elliott/Stee Georgalis)
2012 - 15th (Ivan Cleary)
2013 - 10th (Ivan Cleary)
2014 - 2nd (Ivan Cleary
2015 - 11th (Ivan Cleary)

So, one good season in four.

Not trying to run the guy down. But hardly a record that suggests he will do any better than Sheens/Potter Taylor.

His record in his first two seasons at Penrith was worse than Taylor's first two seasons here and he had a far better squad as a starting point. You guys would have lynched him if he had that record here.

Doing my best Monty Python impersonation "I'd dream of one good season in 4"

 

[southerntiger]

Penrith record:

2010 - 2nd (Matthew Elliott
2011 - 12th (Elliott/Stee Georgalis)
2012 - 15th (Ivan Cleary)
2013 - 10th (Ivan Cleary)
2014 - 2nd (Ivan Cleary
2015 - 11th (Ivan Cleary)

So, one good season in four.

Not trying to run the guy down. But hardly a record that suggests he will do any better than Sheens/Potter Taylor.

His record in his first two seasons at Penrith was worse than Taylor's first two seasons here and he had a far better squad as a starting point. You guys would have lynched him if he had that record here.

Doing my best Monty Python impersonation "I'd dream of one good season in 4"

So would I. But I suspect Ivan will find the Wests Tigers a tougher gig than the Panthers.

Fortunately for him Taylor cleaned up most of the mess and copped the hits for it.

 

[happy_tiger]

Penrith record:

2010 - 2nd (Matthew Elliott
2011 - 12th (Elliott/Stee Georgalis)
2012 - 15th (Ivan Cleary)
2013 - 10th (Ivan Cleary)
2014 - 2nd (Ivan Cleary
2015 - 11th (Ivan Cleary)

So, one good season in four.

Not trying to run the guy down. But hardly a record that suggests he will do any better than Sheens/Potter Taylor.

His record in his first two seasons at Penrith was worse than Taylor's first two seasons here and he had a far better squad as a starting point. You guys would have lynched him if he had that record here.

Doing my best Monty Python impersonation "I'd dream of one good season in 4"

So would I. But I suspect Ivan will find the Wests Tigers a tougher gig than the Panthers.

Fortunately for him Taylor cleaned up most of the mess and copped the hits for it.

Calling coaching the WT's a gig is laughable , probably closer to being a Cross to Bear is more apt

 

[TYGA]

I don't have an opinion on Cleary. Thought he didnt do much with the best junior system in the country but I like his professionalism and that he seems like a decent bloke.

His record is surprisingly nothing to write home about:

**Years Team Gms W D L W%**
2006–11 New Zealand Warriors 137 68 3 66 50
2012–15 Penrith Panthers 112 53 0 59 47
**Total 249 121 3 125 49**

Given the squads he had, this is not as good as I would have expected given the hype on here. I had assumed that he had at least a 50% record at the Panthers given he is treated as the next messiah.

By contrast, the record of the coach you all hate:

**Years Team Gms W D L W%**
2006 Parramatta Eels 16 10 0 6 63
2007–09 South Sydney 73 31 1 41 42
2015–17 Wests Tigers 51 20 0 31 39
**Total 140 61 1 78 44**

Given the squads he had at all three clubs compared to Ivan the Great, the record is just as good, if not better.

And the coach you all think is the devil

**Years Team Gms W D L W%**
1984–87 Penrith Panthers 98 43 4 51 44
1988–96 Canberra Raiders 219 148 3 68 68
1997–01 North Queensland Cowboys 103 27 4 72 26
**2003–12 Wests Tigers 249 122 0 127 49**
2016– Hull Kingston Rovers 5 5 0 0 100
**Total 674 345 11 318 51**

Bring back Tim. So, Sheens' record at Wests Tigers with a patchwork squad over a longer period is better than Ivan's record at Penrith, with the best juniors in the country.

I think we have been sold a pup.

I disagree with everything you said using stats to justify an opinion whilst claiming not to have one. JT is disgraced himself and this club.

 

[jirskyr]

What I take out of these stats is that our perception of a coach's record is often very different to reality.

That being said, a lot of players praise Cleary and if he gets us the players, then Im all good. IMO a good playing list is more important than a good coach.

I understand what you mean, Cleary still has to prove himself. Clearly he's a good guy, was a great footballer and apparently knows how to manage his players, but he did get cut from his last gig.

He did do pretty well with the Warriors, that's the main selling point for me: 10th, 4th, 8th, 14th, 5th, 6th (GF). Warriors haven't made the finals since.

 

[southerntiger]

I don't have an opinion on Cleary. Thought he didnt do much with the best junior system in the country but I like his professionalism and that he seems like a decent bloke.

His record is surprisingly nothing to write home about:

**Years Team Gms W D L W%**
2006–11 New Zealand Warriors 137 68 3 66 50
2012–15 Penrith Panthers 112 53 0 59 47
**Total 249 121 3 125 49**

Given the squads he had, this is not as good as I would have expected given the hype on here. I had assumed that he had at least a 50% record at the Panthers given he is treated as the next messiah.

By contrast, the record of the coach you all hate:

**Years Team Gms W D L W%**
2006 Parramatta Eels 16 10 0 6 63
2007–09 South Sydney 73 31 1 41 42
2015–17 Wests Tigers 51 20 0 31 39
**Total 140 61 1 78 44**

Given the squads he had at all three clubs compared to Ivan the Great, the record is just as good, if not better.

And the coach you all think is the devil

**Years Team Gms W D L W%**
1984–87 Penrith Panthers 98 43 4 51 44
1988–96 Canberra Raiders 219 148 3 68 68
1997–01 North Queensland Cowboys 103 27 4 72 26
**2003–12 Wests Tigers 249 122 0 127 49**
2016– Hull Kingston Rovers 5 5 0 0 100
**Total 674 345 11 318 51**

Bring back Tim. So, Sheens' record at Wests Tigers with a patchwork squad over a longer period is better than Ivan's record at Penrith, with the best juniors in the country.

I think we have been sold a pup.

I disagree with everything you said using stats to justify an opinion whilst claiming not to have one. JT is disgraced himself and this club.

My only opinion is that Ivan's record isn't all that crash hot.

I agreed with the decision to sack Taylor and I would agree with the decision to appoint Ivan. Im just not going to delude myself as to what it will mean.

 

[southerntiger]

What I take out of these stats is that our perception of a coach's record is often very different to reality.

That being said, a lot of players praise Cleary and if he gets us the players, then Im all good. IMO a good playing list is more important than a good coach.

I understand what you mean, Cleary still has to prove himself. Clearly he's a good guy, was a great footballer and apparently knows how to manage his players, but he did get cut from his last gig.

He did do pretty well with the Warriors, that's the main selling point for me: 10th, 4th, 8th, 14th, 5th, 6th (GF). Warriors haven't made the finals since.

Yeh I haven't gone back to check his Warriors record admittedly, other than his raw win-loss record. Its a decent record. He had a very good squad - big boys up front, creative halves and a quick three quarter line.

I see coaching the Warriors as a very different proposition to the Wests Tigers.

 

[Telltails]

Penrith record:

2010 - 2nd (Matthew Elliott
2011 - 12th (Elliott/Stee Georgalis)
2012 - 15th (Ivan Cleary)
2013 - 10th (Ivan Cleary)
2014 - 2nd (Ivan Cleary
2015 - 11th (Ivan Cleary)

So, one good season in four.

Not trying to run the guy down. But hardly a record that suggests he will do any better than Sheens/Potter Taylor.

His record in his first two seasons at Penrith was worse than Taylor's first two seasons here and he had a far better squad as a starting point. You guys would have lynched him if he had that record here.

Doing my best Monty Python impersonation "I'd dream of one good season in 4"

So would I. But I suspect Ivan will find the Wests Tigers a tougher gig than the Panthers.

Fortunately for him Taylor cleaned up most of the mess and copped the hits for it.

Calling coaching the WT's a gig is laughable , probably closer to being a Cross to Bear is more apt

As Kevvie Walters said last night when talking about the coaching positions at WTs and possibly the Bulldogs….
"There only 16 positions and I would be happy with either of them".
Some people clearly cut out for coaching ..others not.
.

 

[TYGA]

I don't have an opinion on Cleary. Thought he didnt do much with the best junior system in the country but I like his professionalism and that he seems like a decent bloke.

His record is surprisingly nothing to write home about:

**Years Team Gms W D L W%**
2006–11 New Zealand Warriors 137 68 3 66 50
2012–15 Penrith Panthers 112 53 0 59 47
**Total 249 121 3 125 49**

Given the squads he had, this is not as good as I would have expected given the hype on here. I had assumed that he had at least a 50% record at the Panthers given he is treated as the next messiah.

By contrast, the record of the coach you all hate:

**Years Team Gms W D L W%**
2006 Parramatta Eels 16 10 0 6 63
2007–09 South Sydney 73 31 1 41 42
2015–17 Wests Tigers 51 20 0 31 39
**Total 140 61 1 78 44**

Given the squads he had at all three clubs compared to Ivan the Great, the record is just as good, if not better.

And the coach you all think is the devil

**Years Team Gms W D L W%**
1984–87 Penrith Panthers 98 43 4 51 44
1988–96 Canberra Raiders 219 148 3 68 68
1997–01 North Queensland Cowboys 103 27 4 72 26
**2003–12 Wests Tigers 249 122 0 127 49**
2016– Hull Kingston Rovers 5 5 0 0 100
**Total 674 345 11 318 51**

Bring back Tim. So, Sheens' record at Wests Tigers with a patchwork squad over a longer period is better than Ivan's record at Penrith, with the best juniors in the country.

I think we have been sold a pup.

I disagree with everything you said using stats to justify an opinion whilst claiming not to have one. JT is disgraced himself and this club.

My only opinion is that Ivan's record isn't all that crash hot.

Im agreed with the decision to sack Taylor and I would agree with the decision to appoint Ivan. Im just not going to delude myself as to what it will mean.

My take on Cleary is he gets the most out of his squads. The warriors were a rabble and spent way under the cap for his tenure there and I believe they made the finals 4 years out of 6 and made the GF. Penrith he got rid of Jenning, Lewis, Coote and others bro sort out the salary cap and rebuild the club. They made the prelim and if I am correct they had s bad injury toll and he was sacked.

I suppose you can look at the quality of the squad. They have assembled most were developed under him.!

 

[gallagher]

Ironic that Cleary got a grand final appearance due to benji and Farah.

 

[happy_tiger]

How many coaches in the modern era have a 55 % long term winning record

49-51 % would be pretty good

 

[southerntiger]

My take on Cleary is he gets the most out of his squads. The warriors were a rabble and spent way under the cap for his tenure there and I believe they made the finals 4 years out of 6 and made the GF. Penrith he got rid of Jenning, Lewis, Coote and others bro sort out the salary cap and rebuild the club. They made the prelim and if I am correct they had s bad injury toll and he was sacked.

I suppose you can look at the quality of the squad. They have assembled most were developed under him.!

This is the squad Cleary inherited at the Warriors:

33 Awen Guttenbeil New Zealand SR 14 April 1996 23 1 0 0 4
64 Wairangi Koopu New Zealand CE / SR 9 April 1999 20 6 0 0 24
66 Clinton Toopi New Zealand CE 2 May 1999 10 1 0 0 4
87 Richard Villasanti Australia PR 18 February 2001 1 0 0 0 0
97 Brent Webb New Zealand FB 1 April 2002 22 11 0 0 44
98 Sione Faumuina New Zealand CE / LK 1 April 2002 17 4 0 0 16
99 Lance Hohaia New Zealand UB 6 April 2002 12 5 14 0 48
102 Evarn Tuimavave New Zealand PR 1 September 2002 23 4 0 0 16
108 Jerome Ropati New Zealand CE / FE 31 August 2003 22 9 0 0 36
109 Tony Martin Australia CE 14 March 2004 20 6 68 0 160
110 Epalahame Lauaki New Zealand SR 14 March 2004 8 1 0 0 4
112 Louis Anderson New Zealand LK 28 March 2004 23 1 0 0 4
115 Manu Vatuvei New Zealand WG 23 May 2004 18 10 0 0 40
118 Cooper Vuna New Zealand WG 21 August 2004 3 0 0 0 0
121 Steve Price Australia PR 13 March 2005 21 5 0 0 20
122 Todd Byrne Australia WG 13 March 2005 9 2 0 0 8
123 Ruben Wiki New Zealand PR 13 March 2005 22 6 0 0 24
124 Nathan Fien New Zealand HK 13 March 2005 21 4 0 0 16
125 Simon Mannering New Zealand CE 26 June 2005 17 9 0 0 36
126 Micheal Luck Australia SR 12 March 2006 24 1 0 0 4
127 Grant Rovelli Italy HB 12 March 2006 24 4 0 0 16
128 George Gatis Greece HK 25 March 2006 17 2 0 0 8
129 Patrick Ah Van New Zealand WG 9 April 2006 15 4 0 0 16
130 Misi Taulapapa Samoa WG 22 April 2006 5 0 0 0 0
131 Sam Rapira New Zealand PR 20 May 2006 10 1 0 0 4

Not a bad squad. I doubt that was well under the salary cap. My recollection is Price went there on a mint.

But I agree that Cleary does seem a good man manager and we probably need one of those after Potter and Taylor.

 

[southerntiger]

How many coaches in the modern era have a 55 % long term winning record

49-51 % would be pretty good

Trent Robinson
Paul Green
Craig Bellamy
Wayne Bennett
Phil Gould
Peter Louis
Des Hasler
Geoff Toovey
Chris Anderson
Steve Folkes
John Lang

 

[southerntiger]

Some coaches above 50 but below 55

Michal Hagan
Ivan Henjak
Kevin Moore
Graham Murray
Grahame Low
Brian Smith
Anthony Griffin
Mal Meninga (just club record)
Shane Flanagan
Daniel Anderson

Some coaches not highly regarded well ahead of Cleary.

 

[Seantice]

Bellamy is by far the best coach. He brings in rejects and molds them. Bemnet,hasler, green and robinson walked into rep sides…

 

[southerntiger]

Bellamy is by far the best coach. He brings in rejects and molds them. Bemnet,hasler, green and robinson walked into rep sides…

Bennett? What are you talking about? He turned an average Dragons squad into premiers. He even had a decent record at the Knights - 53%.

 

[Mickeyboy]

Maybe we invest in a proven Big 1 coach rather than a potential Big 4 - just saying

 

[TYGA]

My take on Cleary is he gets the most out of his squads. The warriors were a rabble and spent way under the cap for his tenure there and I believe they made the finals 4 years out of 6 and made the GF. Penrith he got rid of Jenning, Lewis, Coote and others bro sort out the salary cap and rebuild the club. They made the prelim and if I am correct they had s bad injury toll and he was sacked.

I suppose you can look at the quality of the squad. They have assembled most were developed under him.!

This is the squad Cleary inherited at the Warriors:

33 Awen Guttenbeil New Zealand SR 14 April 1996 23 1 0 0 4
64 Wairangi Koopu New Zealand CE / SR 9 April 1999 20 6 0 0 24
66 Clinton Toopi New Zealand CE 2 May 1999 10 1 0 0 4
87 Richard Villasanti Australia PR 18 February 2001 1 0 0 0 0
97 Brent Webb New Zealand FB 1 April 2002 22 11 0 0 44
98 Sione Faumuina New Zealand CE / LK 1 April 2002 17 4 0 0 16
99 Lance Hohaia New Zealand UB 6 April 2002 12 5 14 0 48
102 Evarn Tuimavave New Zealand PR 1 September 2002 23 4 0 0 16
108 Jerome Ropati New Zealand CE / FE 31 August 2003 22 9 0 0 36
109 Tony Martin Australia CE 14 March 2004 20 6 68 0 160
110 Epalahame Lauaki New Zealand SR 14 March 2004 8 1 0 0 4
112 Louis Anderson New Zealand LK 28 March 2004 23 1 0 0 4
115 Manu Vatuvei New Zealand WG 23 May 2004 18 10 0 0 40
118 Cooper Vuna New Zealand WG 21 August 2004 3 0 0 0 0
121 Steve Price Australia PR 13 March 2005 21 5 0 0 20
122 Todd Byrne Australia WG 13 March 2005 9 2 0 0 8
123 Ruben Wiki New Zealand PR 13 March 2005 22 6 0 0 24
124 Nathan Fien New Zealand HK 13 March 2005 21 4 0 0 16
125 Simon Mannering New Zealand CE 26 June 2005 17 9 0 0 36
126 Micheal Luck Australia SR 12 March 2006 24 1 0 0 4
127 Grant Rovelli Italy HB 12 March 2006 24 4 0 0 16
128 George Gatis Greece HK 25 March 2006 17 2 0 0 8
129 Patrick Ah Van New Zealand WG 9 April 2006 15 4 0 0 16
130 Misi Taulapapa Samoa WG 22 April 2006 5 0 0 0 0
131 Sam Rapira New Zealand PR 20 May 2006 10 1 0 0 4

Not a bad squad. I doubt that was well under the salary cap. My recollection is Price went there on a mint.

But I agree that Cleary does seem a good man manager and we probably need one of those after Potter and Taylor.

You put David Middleton to shame well researched.