Wests Tigers coach Jason Taylor gives halves Luke Brooks and Mitchell Moses licence to entertain

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Let em of the leash …fine...

When errors and completions rates are at less than 60% Possession below 50% missed tackles 50+ due to pressure on defence..lack of dominance in the ruck...conceding penalties then let them play what's in front of them...

The term is becoming the most cliche of all cliche's... :unamused:

Licence to Thrill..we had that once...
 
@happy tiger said:
The other question I'm interested to hear is what do people think Brooks strength is

Running game or passing game ??

Look I think his running game has potential as he is quite strong when he runs the ball

Early in games I'd love to see him run at the defence when he has room to move

It really puts defences in two minds if your 7 runs early and will help Moses's running game as well , particularly if Moses runs straight after

I've always been a big believer that close to the line that your halves running one after the other can be devastating if they get reasonably quick play the balls

Brooks also has really good speed for a half, I would definitely like to see him attack the defensive line more often by running the ball. Im sure it will also help open up his passing lanes as the defence will have to respect the threat of him running.
 
@foreveratiger said:
The footy we played last year was absolute boring.
The structures he implemented just didn't work and made our players play game plans that just weren't in them.
Don't know what part of our defence improved cause there was no improvement on the 2nd half of the Season.

Not only was it boring, but it was dumb.

5 hitups and a midfield bomb might reduce errors but it gives the opposition easy field position.
 
@Geo. said:
Let em of the leash …fine...

When errors and completions rates are at less than 60% Possession below 50% missed tackles 50+ due to pressure on defence..lack of dominance in the ruck...conceding penalties then let them play what's in front of them...

The term is becoming the most cliche of all cliche's... :unamused:

Licence to Thrill..we had that once...

Fair to say it worked that year though

![](http://www.visualart.net.au/image/cache/data/Rugby%20League/West-tigers-2005-licence-to-thrill-001-500x500.jpg)
 
@Sabre said:
@Geo. said:
Let em of the leash …fine...

When errors and completions rates are at less than 60% Possession below 50% missed tackles 50+ due to pressure on defence..lack of dominance in the ruck...conceding penalties then let them play what's in front of them...

The term is becoming the most cliche of all cliche's... :unamused:

Licence to Thrill..we had that once...

Fair to say it worked that year though

![](http://www.visualart.net.au/image/cache/data/Rugby%20League/West-tigers-2005-licence-to-thrill-001-500x500.jpg)

Licence to Thrill was the 2006 Membership Slogan..didn't go so well…it was added to the 2005 Memorabilia...hindsight is a wonderful thing...
 
@foreveratiger said:
JT realises that another year like last year in pushing through his structured footy could have a massive bearing on Brooks, Moses and even Tedesco. I think his bitten the bullet and is allowing them to do what there natural instincts tells them to do.
What they need to learn is how to close out a game and fall back on a structured game plan so other sides don't get a sniff when we go out to a healthy lead.

I'm glad that JT is going to allow this to occur cause it was painful to watch 2 kids play a brand of Footy that was foreign to them.
The 1st half of the Season when Potter was Coaching them in 2014…..I remember being at the Titans vs Wests Tigers game in 30+ degree heat and it was the Tedesco and Brooks show and a week later the same thing vs Souths.....that is how these kids play the game.

I think your argument is incorrect. I truly believe that letting the young players "do what their natural instincts tell them" is exactly what results in teams being unable to fall back on structures when a game becomes more even / tight.

It's easy to play just your natural attacking style when the bounce of the ball or possession is in your favour, particularly over short periods. But being 80 mins, usually those edges even out, and the opposition will not stop coming at you just because you've amassed a lead and now decided to fall back to structures. Indeed, that idea of "shutting up shop" is already well known in sport to be a psychological incentive to the opposition.

No, I think we need to be a team that creates healthy leads from structured play. I think we should aspire to be the Andre Agassi of rugby league, where we play low-error, threatening football until the opposition gives us the chance to go on the attack. We want the opposition to know we are always in the game, that we cannot be easily blown away or reeled in, that we will not give them many opportunities, and that we will strike when they give us opportunities.

Unfortunately, we need to be a team more like Melbourne Storm. Take away for a moment the "Melbourne spine", and you have a side that typically plays a high calibre of low-error footy. They don't flog many teams, but they are hard to beat either at minute 1 or minute 80\. They are certainly beatable on any day, but on average their structure-based approach and discipline win more matches than they lose. They have some pretty average footballers who manage to play to the structure and [to the role given](to%20the%20role%20given) with success. They happen to have a very good coach, who is able to come up with the structures and get the players to stick to them.

Melbourne do not win games because their key players blow the opposition away. In fact, I'd argue that they do not have the most dangerous players in any given position - even Slater, Smith and Cronk are inferior attacking options compared to select players at other clubs. Melbourne are 64% for wins over the last 7 seasons, including 55% when playing away. The next best side is Manly who are 59% overall but 47% away, meaning they rely more heavily on home-ground wins. Tigers over the same period are 46% wins including 38% away.

So you quote Titans v Tigers in 2014, sure. What happened to that season? If Tedesco and Brooks played a terrific brand of footy under the ex-coach for those two rounds, why did the season go to pot? Did the former coach also fail to set the right structures for our specific players? Or did those players simply fail to achieve the same level of excellence week in and out over 24 matches?

I'll quote another 5 games for you from last year, to illustrate what I mean:
Tigers v Saints Rd 2 (CSS)
Tigers v Dogs Rd 4 (ANZ)
Tigers v Raiders Rd 7 (LO)
Dogs v Tigers Rd 8 (ANZ)
Tigers v Titans Rd 13 (LO)

Rd 2 we blew Dragons away over first 20 minutes, a fine game from Tedesco, and managed to hold out a fairly average Dragons side for the last 80\. Benji Marshall was in average form and they never threatened our lead, so I would not say our structures won the back half of the match.

Rd 4 we blew the Dogs away over 20 minutes, but they came home over the top of us and took golden point. Abject failure to maintain the level that got us to the lead, or to protect the lead.

Rd 7 again blew the Raiders away in the first 20, almost the same as against Dragons (left-side-heavy attack). Raiders jagged a weak try to stupid Shannon Boyd right before half time, then came out second half to put us away.

Rd 8 - same venue as Rd 4 except this time the Dogs could not arrest the flow and play themselves back into the match. I'd argue we faced more or less the same Dogs side (first game was without Reynolds and Jackson started at 6, second game without Graham and J Mo), somewhat inconsistent like ourselves, and the second time around they just could not get that momentum to reel us in. It was supposed to be the turning point in our season.

Rd 13 - Titans outclassed us early but we stayed in the match, jagging a few questionable tries and unexpectedly hitting the lead. But Titans threw it around at the death and broke the line, with a long-range try to Anthony Don, of all the differently-abled wingers going around.

These games do not just fail to show a side that can protect its lead with structured play, it shows a side that doesn't really know how to play structured across 80 minutes at all. A team that can get 20 points ahead of Dogs twice in a month, to lose one and run away with it in the nother… that's just inconsistency for you from a young side (and from the Dogs too). The Titans match shows that we can still come from behind, but even a small lead is in trouble because we are so inconsistent and fail to play to structures at any stage.

All these games show that we have a really good 20 minutes in us, and depending on the opposition, we may or may not be able to defend that lead. It should not depend on the opposition, it should depend on us. The game play that puts us in front should be the same play that occurs when we are protecting a lead, or chasing a deficit. You need at least 3 x 20 minutes of good football to win more than half of your games, not just one standout 20.

And that is why you don't just let two 20 year olds play whatever inspiration they get, because it's not enough to win more than half of 24 rounds of 4 x 20 minute games.
 
@Geo. said:
@Sabre said:
@Geo. said:
Let em of the leash …fine...

When errors and completions rates are at less than 60% Possession below 50% missed tackles 50+ due to pressure on defence..lack of dominance in the ruck...conceding penalties then let them play what's in front of them...

The term is becoming the most cliche of all cliche's... :unamused:

Licence to Thrill..we had that once...

Fair to say it worked that year though

![](http://www.visualart.net.au/image/cache/data/Rugby%20League/West-tigers-2005-licence-to-thrill-001-500x500.jpg)

Licence to Thrill was the 2006 Membership Slogan..didn't go so well…it was added to the 2005 Memorabilia...hindsight is a wonderful thing...

Yeah, I thought it was 2006 myself too. Had to Google it.
I have vague memories of there being a James Bond link/tie-in as well.
 
@happy tiger said:
The other question I'm interested to hear is what do people think Brooks strength is

Running game or passing game ??

Look I think his running game has potential as he is quite strong when he runs the ball

Early in games I'd love to see him run at the defence when he has room to move

It really puts defences in two minds if your 7 runs early and will help Moses's running game as well , particularly if Moses runs straight after

I've always been a big believer that close to the line that your halves running one after the other can be devastating if they get reasonably quick play the balls

I agree his running game has potential.

If anything I'd say he decides a little too early when he's going to run or pass, so on a run play the ball tends to get tucked before he has the opposition guessing.

But he is fast enough even over a short distance, and he's a good size/shape. He probably also needs to try to get a fend going a bit as well, because from memory lots of his runs are just NFL-style rushes with back tightly packed. Compare to a Tim Simona, who looks to defeat the defender with a fend rather than just tackle busting.

I think what you pointed out, the halves taking strategic runs together, is something the Roosters had built success on with Pearce (more of stepper) followed by Maloney (more of a hole runner).

Still looking for Brooks to bring a more consistent kicking game too, because I think he has plenty of boot and decent control. It's almost like he need to be in a groove, because sometimes his kicking is quite excellent.
 
@foreveratiger said:
The footy we played last year was absolute boring.
The structures he implemented just didn't work and made our players play game plans that just weren't in them.
Don't know what part of our defence improved cause there was no improvement on the 2nd half of the Season.

JT realises that another year like last year in pushing through his structured footy could have a massive bearing on Brooks, Moses and even Tedesco. I think his bitten the bullet and is allowing them to do what there natural instincts tells them to do.
What they need to learn is how to close out a game and fall back on a structured game plan so other sides don't get a sniff when we go out to a healthy lead.

I'm glad that JT is going to allow this to occur cause it was painful to watch 2 kids play a brand of Footy that was foreign to them.
The 1st half of the Season when Potter was Coaching them in 2014…..I remember being at the Titans vs Wests Tigers game in 30+ degree heat and it was the Tedesco and Brooks show and a week later the same thing vs Souths.....that is how these kids play the game.

JT often stated he would work on defence first and the attack would follow. Thats why we played the boring structured football.
He probably feels confident in the defence now to let the boys play naturally and what they see in front of them.
 
@jirskyr said:
@foweatiger said:
JT realises that another year like last year in pushing through his structured footy could have a massive bearing on Brooks, Moses and even Tedesco. I think his bitten the bullet and is allowing them to do what there natural instincts tells them to do.
What they need to learn is how to close out a game and fall back on a structured game plan so other sides don't get a sniff when we go out to a healthy lead.

I'm glad that JT is going to allow this to occur cause it was painful to watch 2 kids play a brand of Footy that was foreign to them.
The 1st half of the Season when Potter was Coaching them in 2014…..I remember being at the Titans vs Wests Tigers game in 30+ degree heat and it was the Tedesco and Brooks show and a week later the same thing vs Souths.....that is how these kids play the game.

I think your argument is incorrect. I truly believe that letting the young players "do what their natural instincts tell them" is exactly what results in teams being unable to fall back on structures when a game becomes more even / tight.

It's easy to play just your natural attacking style when the bounce of the ball or possession is in your favour, particularly over short periods. But being 80 mins, usually those edges even out, and the opposition will not stop coming at you just because you've amassed a lead and now decided to fall back to structures. Indeed, that idea of "shutting up shop" is already well known in sport to be a psychological incentive to the opposition.

No, I think we need to be a team that creates healthy leads from structured play. I think we should aspire to be the Andre Agassi of rugby league, where we play low-error, threatening football until the opposition gives us the chance to go on the attack. We want the opposition to know we are always in the game, that we cannot be easily blown away or reeled in, that we will not give them many opportunities, and that we will strike when they give us opportunities.

Unfortunately, we need to be a team more like Melbourne Storm. Take away for a moment the "Melbourne spine", and you have a side that typically plays a high calibre of low-error footy. They don't flog many teams, but they are hard to beat either at minute 1 or minute 80\. They are certainly beatable on any day, but on average their structure-based approach and discipline win more matches than they lose. They have some pretty average footballers who manage to play to the structure and [to the role given](to%20the%20role%20given) with success. They happen to have a very good coach, who is able to come up with the structures and get the players to stick to them.

Melbourne do not win games because their key players blow the opposition away. In fact, I'd argue that they do not have the most dangerous players in any given position - even Slater, Smith and Cronk are inferior attacking options compared to select players at other clubs. Melbourne are 64% for wins over the last 7 seasons, including 55% when playing away. The next best side is Manly who are 59% overall but 47% away, meaning they rely more heavily on home-ground wins. Tigers over the same period are 46% wins including 38% away.

So you quote Titans v Tigers in 2014, sure. What happened to that season? If Tedesco and Brooks played a terrific brand of footy under the ex-coach for those two rounds, why did the season go to pot? Did the former coach also fail to set the right structures for our specific players? Or did those players simply fail to achieve the same level of excellence week in and out over 24 matches?

I'll quote another 5 games for you from last year, to illustrate what I mean:
Tigers v Saints Rd 2 (CSS)
Tigers v Dogs Rd 4 (ANZ)
Tigers v Raiders Rd 7 (LO)
Dogs v Tigers Rd 8 (ANZ)
Tigers v Titans Rd 13 (LO)

Rd 2 we blew Dragons away over first 20 minutes, a fine game from Tedesco, and managed to hold out a fairly average Dragons side for the last 80\. Benji Marshall was in average form and they never threatened our lead, so I would not say our structures won the back half of the match.

Rd 4 we blew the Dogs away over 20 minutes, but they came home over the top of us and took golden point. Abject failure to maintain the level that got us to the lead, or to protect the lead.

Rd 7 again blew the Raiders away in the first 20, almost the same as against Dragons (left-side-heavy attack). Raiders jagged a weak try to stupid Shannon Boyd right before half time, then came out second half to put us away.

Rd 8 - same venue as Rd 4 except this time the Dogs could not arrest the flow and play themselves back into the match. I'd argue we faced more or less the same Dogs side (first game was without Reynolds and Jackson started at 6, second game without Graham and J Mo), somewhat inconsistent like ourselves, and the second time around they just could not get that momentum to reel us in. It was supposed to be the turning point in our season.

Rd 13 - Titans outclassed us early but we stayed in the match, jagging a few questionable tries and unexpectedly hitting the lead. But Titans threw it around at the death and broke the line, with a long-range try to Anthony Don, of all the differently-abled wingers going around.

These games do not just fail to show a side that can protect its lead with structured play, it shows a side that doesn't really know how to play structured across 80 minutes at all. A team that can get 20 points ahead of Dogs twice in a month, to lose one and run away with it in the nother… that's just inconsistency for you from a young side (and from the Dogs too). The Titans match shows that we can still come from behind, but even a small lead is in trouble because we are so inconsistent and fail to play to structures at any stage.

All these games show that we have a really good 20 minutes in us, and depending on the opposition, we may or may not be able to defend that lead. It should not depend on the opposition, it should depend on us. The game play that puts us in front should be the same play that occurs when we are protecting a lead, or chasing a deficit. You need at least 3 x 20 minutes of good football to win more than half of your games, not just one standout 20.

And that is why you don't just let two 20 year olds play whatever inspiration they get, because it's not enough to win more than half of 24 rounds of 4 x 20 minute games.

Maybe I've been a bit misunderstood and I understand your post, which was a very good one.

I enjoy this brand of Footy of the cuff type…...I do realise that we are not in a healthy Salary Cap situation to purchase the type of players to help us implement Structured footy. IMO
I personally don't believe that our defence improved through the back half of last year, the fact of the matter is Moses and Brooks were exposed in defence more time than not or can we say our opposition Coaches identified these 2 players with defensive issues.
I seem to recall a heck of a lot of shirt and shoulder grabbing which was embarrassing to see

But of course with this type of Footy ( of the cuff) your exposed to a lot more errors and risk possession turning against you which in turn = more work defensively.
\
\
In regards with the 2014 Season ( Potter) after Round 12 we were in 2nd Position on the Ladder and going great guns, then we had a heap of injuries that we couldn't sustain.

Good post mate
 
I think this is encouraging. Young players need to learn to reign it in. When you are as good as moses and Brooks coming through, you see opportunities everywhere, not the same in NRL.

I think being shackled for a year and having those systems to they learnt last year firmly engrained coupled with their natural flair will probably see them better players than they would be, if allowed to play to their strengths last year.

Balance is the key as others have eluded to, I think the long term goal was to produce balanced footballers.

Last year we played far too tight between the 20's. In their 20 we were pretty good. Once sides worked out we were not going to ask many question outside a pass or 2, they could condense their defence, not risk giving away penalties (as even if we got a quick play the ball we weren't going to punish them) and made us all easy to defend. We were getting into the grind well enough, but not putting enough pressure on.

If we can get into the grind, but allow Moses and brooks to have a crack after a good run or attack an edge at some point, everything will get easier. Sides will than worry about quick PTB's penalties will follow, they defend all the way across the field, we will win more play the balls and get more opportunities. Our mistake rate may go up, but we will be more hard to handle and probably get more chances with the ball.

The risk is always over doing it. I think last years habits will see us not being too OTT with the attacking options though.
 
Going on everything I seen last weekend the Tigers look very different. The structure they played was very exciting, Brookes & Moses will have plenty of opportunities. This structure will allow Balin to fit in as well. I am looking forward to the season what a difference a week makes.
 
@innsaneink said:
Just as long as they know when to play what they see.
I wonder how the rest of the team know what they'll be doing when they play what they see…. Hopefully not kicks with no chasers etc.
Platforms need to be set because this footy Is high risk

What exactly are we risking though? 12th place? Who cares?
 
This might sound stupid but I would rather them play exciting football and screw a few up from Benji mistakes then play low risk structured "professional" football…

Because I feel Nrl isn't as fun to watch as it used to be. If one team is going to make it fun (besides warriors this year) I would like it to be Tigers. I've been getting into NBA more this season more than others because the excitement factor missing from modern NRL.

Go Moses, Brooks, Tedesco. Bring the fun. Bring some exciting play.

repetitive structured football sets. It's not why I grew up watching the game.
 
@innsaneink said:
@Tigerdon said:
@innsaneink said:
@willow said:
This is how they should have been allowed to play from round 1 last year, except Taylor wanted us to play like the Chooks. Hopefully we're a bit more exciting to watch with ball in hand this year. It would be great to see Simona get more quality ball as I don't think I've seen him this fit, and Nofoaluma looked sharp in the Storm trial. Here's hoping…

We would've definitely won the spoon if we did

“You have to have a structure to fall back on, but being able to play outside that structure is what’s key, and that’s what well do.’’

Not so sure about that Ink. We came very close to getting to spoon playing the same type of game as teams that do it better than us. Going back to Our style of play is where will worry teams. Not playing their game

We wouldve gotten the spoon by a mile without the base JT is trying to get the boys to lay….
Too many do not seem to understand the basis of a defensive foundation and what we were trying to achieve last year....it still remains to be seen if we have moved forwrd in this area if at all
"Our style"...whatever that is....has seen me watching other teams year in year out come september
You cant just go out and play ad lib touch footy...its suicide

Do people actually watch teams like Melbourne,Souths,Manly,Dogs and the Chooks. They all have game breakers in key positions, but they play a very structured game. Like the old heavy weight champion,you just keep doing the hard stuff till you get on top than you let go with the flashy stuff. People talk about five hit ups and a bomb, well let me tell you most teams do it for 3/4 of a game because it works. When our defence is so good we can defend a game with 40% of the ball, by all means play razzle dazzle footy but in the mean time we have to get the mix right.Through great defence and good structures you create great attacking opportunities.Although it seems a lot of people want to take short cuts and a easier road, but if there was one, they would all be doing it if you get my drift
 
Whatever type of football we play ,structured, ad lib, or what ever.
Nothing is going to change until we stop producing the rubbish soft defence on our goal line.( the same as we saw last week from a tap kick. )
We've been known as being easy and soft when it matters, and that comes down to lack of effort, in a lot of cases.
Maybe it will be some of the recruits to break the habit of leaving the hard work to someone else, as I don't expect any of our Blokes to suddenly turn into a defensive powerhouse.( I hope I'm wrong about that)
All the "structures, " whiteboards etc. aren't worth anything, unless WTs are prepared to actually care if our line is crossed. Because in a lot of cases over a long time, it certainly doesn't look like some of them do.
 
@Spartan117 said:
Barring 2005, the successful teams always have a hard edge when it comes to defense.

Towards the back end of 2005 when we started our run one of the reasons we were winning games was our line speed and getting up in the oppositions face in defence, yes sure our attacking brilliance was putting points on the board but we were putting teams on the back foot in defence.
 
@Cosimo_Zaretti said:
@innsaneink said:
Just as long as they know when to play what they see.
I wonder how the rest of the team know what they'll be doing when they play what they see…. Hopefully not kicks with no chasers etc.
Platforms need to be set because this footy Is high risk

What exactly are we risking though? 12th place? Who cares?

We risk ending down the bottom yet again …we need to learn to set a platform, we havent done that yet but its what the boring stuff is all about
 
I love attacking footy as much as the next bloke, but I wonder…. how many times do you think Cameron Smith or Darren Lockyer went to their coach and asked to be "let off the leash"?

Not that I read too much into the comments. Typical pre-season attempt to get more members.
 
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