Wests Tigers coach Jason Taylor gives halves Luke Brooks and Mitchell Moses licence to entertain

[innsaneink]

Very interesting jirskyr

 

[innsaneink]

"Robbie Farah praised the arrival of attacking coach Craig Sandercock, who made a point of asking Farah, Brooks and Moses what plays they wanted to embrace. Farah, like Brooks, hopes to adopt more of a running game again."

Oh Hallelujah - the attacking coaching savior has arrived. Oh wait he came from Newcastle.

Maybe Newcastle didn't have the skills to execute anything an attacking coach came up with.

Yet they still beat us twice last year.

Hahaha

 

[Eddie]

This is how they should have been allowed to play from round 1 last year, except Taylor wanted us to play like the Chooks. Hopefully we're a bit more exciting to watch with ball in hand this year. It would be great to see Simona get more quality ball as I don't think I've seen him this fit, and Nofoaluma looked sharp in the Storm trial. Here's hoping…

We would've definitely won the spoon if we did

“You have to have a structure to fall back on, but being able to play outside that structure is what’s key, and that’s what well do.’’

Not so sure about that Ink. We came very close to getting to spoon playing the same type of game as teams that do it better than us. Going back to Our style of play is where will worry teams. Not playing their game

We wouldve gotten the spoon by a mile without the base JT is trying to get the boys to lay….
Too many do not seem to understand the basis of a defensive foundation and what we were trying to achieve last year....it still remains to be seen if we have moved forwrd in this area if at all
"Our style"...whatever that is....has seen me watching other teams year in year out come september
You cant just go out and play ad lib touch footy...its suicide

I have no idea how you could come to that conclusion as a matter of firm fact.

We very nearly got the spoon playing very defensive, predictable, pedestrian football. We finoshed on the same amount of wins as the spoon team, Newcastle who we lost too twice.

It is entirely subjective to suggest "we would have go the spoon by a mile" playing free wheeling football. There were games against the QLD cup Cowboys which were crying out to be won. A game against the Gold Coast we went 20 behind before throwing caution to the wind.

We never got the spoon by a mile in previous years playing such football. We were actually a lot closer to the Top 8 or in the Top 4.

I am not an advocate of either either. I just want the coach to use common sense and play to the strengths of the players at his disposal.

For mine to say last year Taylors tactics were all part of a grant masterplan are quite far fetched and subjective.

Personally I thought they put the hand brake on the team in games that there there to be won. But that is my opinion.

Any success this year and the Taylor apologists will all trace it back to his building blocks last year. The other side of the fence will say he learnt from his mistakes and let them off the leash to an extent.

Its all about balance for mine and i think we will see a better balance this year as taylor has learnt what sort of players he has.

He need players in motion and players supporting the football. Last season all i saw in certain games were people running one out and getting smashed. It was horrible to be honest. If that is proper sturctures and systems i really think its giving those tactics more credit then they are due.

 

[Eddie]

People are kidding if they think 5 hit ups and a bomb is the closest way to success. I think its pretty lazy to call that proper structures and systems. That is just basic rubbish that made us get picked off and be very predictable.

That Cowboys games at Ctown was a disgrace, they had a QLD cup style side on the paddock and we wnet one out for 80 minutes. It was horrible tactics on the night against a side there to be beaten.

Did anyone watch the Broncos, Cowboys and Roosters play last season (the three most successful sides)

The 2 best teams Brisbane and North Qld played plenty of footy. They asked alot of quetions. They ran in numbers. Had decoys going, got some offloads going, had some depth in their backs. Roosters often spread the ball early in a set to catch a side napping.

To suggest they went one out and then put a bomb up on their way to success is pretty simplictic for mine.

They all defended really well no doubt about that. However it didnt mean they forgone all attack, they found a balance. Im not asking for Benji Ball and sideways rubbish. That all didnt work great, although many of those seasons we were 1 in away from the Top 8 with a horrible injury toll.

We needs way more men in motion , some offloads, some depth in the backs. Put simply we asked no questions before the 20 M line unless Teddy was on fire.

We did plenty of one out rubbish. That is not great sturcutres or systems for mine. I think its lazy to suggest so. Some games we literally sent one men up every single play to get smashed by 3 blokes.

 

[Tigermama]

"Robbie Farah praised the arrival of attacking coach Craig Sandercock, who made a point of asking Farah, Brooks and Moses what plays they wanted to embrace. Farah, like Brooks, hopes to adopt more of a running game again."

Oh Hallelujah - the attacking coaching savior has arrived. Oh wait he came from Newcastle.

We got the wooden spooners attacking coach. :roll
The Dragons attacking coach this season is Jason Demetriou.( Cowboys)
Manly's new defence coach is Anthony Seibold. ( Storm)
It will be interesting to see how they go, with those two in their ranks.

 

[swag_tiger]

Hopefully this give us the spark in attack we need.

 

[foreveratiger]

Don't know what part of our defence improved cause there was no improvement on the 2nd half of the Season.

I looked it up the averages when I got home.

1st half 2011 - scored 21.50 ppg, conceded 20.00 (diff +1.50), 7th place
2nd half 2011 - scored 21.75 ppg, conceded 15.83 (+5.92), 4th place

1st half 2012 - scored 21.58 ppg, conceded 18.58 (+3.00), 4th place
2nd half 2012 - scored 20.58 ppg, conceded 27.33 (-6.48), 10th place

1st half 2013 - scored 13.75 ppg (!), conceded 27.08 (-13.33), 14th place
2nd half 2013 - scored 18.42 ppg, conceded 30.17 (-12.05), 15th place

1st half 2014 - scored 20.92 ppg, conceded 21.83 (-0.91), 7th place
2nd half 2014 - scored 14.08 ppg, conceded 30.75 (-16.67), 13th place

1st half 2015 - scored 17.58 ppg, conceded 20.17 (-2.59), 13th place
2nd half 2015 - scored 23.17 ppg conceded 26.50 (-3.33), 15th place

Several things:
- The defence for the first 12 rounds of 2015 was the 4th-best performance of any half-season since 2010 (N = 10). It was also the best defensive half-season since start of 2012\. Does this coincide with the "shackled" and possibly incorrect game plan? Attack is 3rd lowest in the previous 3 seasons (N=6).

- The defensive ppg blows out in the back half of 2015\. Does this coincide with what is generally believed to be an unshackling of the attack? The attack improves, but the gap between attack and defence worsens.

- 2011 is the only season where defence improves in the back half.

- Any half-season where attack defence is a very good one, not just an ok one. At the middle-point of 2012 we were 4th on the table.

1st half 2015 - scored 17.58 ppg, conceded 20.17 (-2.59), 13th place
2nd half 2015 - scored 23.17 ppg conceded 26.50 (-3.33), 15th place

I suppose from those numbers jirskyr that it can be said that when we moved away from structured Footy that our defence was lost in the process , the attack improved alot more but from the 3.33 overall score we were worse off from moving away from what we started of the year doing .

There is alot of factors that must be considered aswell…...You start the year with many fit and healthy bodies and then mid year with Representative fixtures more things start to affect a teams performance but very interesting figures there .

 

[Eddie]

Those stats dont consider that most games late in the season there are some blow outs. Like people said teams get rep season fatigue , injuries, fall out of contention.

We beat Melbourne Storm late in the season playing an excellent game all round.

I dont discount the stats completely but i think you need to look at some context as well.

 

[Tigermama]

People are kidding if they think 5 hit ups and a bomb is the closest way to success. I think its pretty lazy to call that proper structures and systems. That is just basic rubbish that made us get picked off and be very predictable.

That Cowboys games at Ctown was a disgrace, they had a QLD cup style side on the paddock and we wnet one out for 80 minutes. It was horrible tactics on the night against a side there to be beaten.

Did anyone watch the Broncos, Cowboys and Roosters play last season (the three most successful sides)

The 2 best teams Brisbane and North Qld played plenty of footy. They asked alot of quetions. They ran in numbers. Had decoys going, got some offloads going, had some depth in their backs. Roosters often spread the ball early in a set to catch a side napping.

To suggest they went one out and then put a bomb up on their way to success is pretty simplictic for mine.

They all defended really well no doubt about that. However it didnt mean they forgone all attack, they found a balance. Im not asking for Benji Ball and sideways rubbish. That all didnt work great, although many of those seasons we were 1 in away from the Top 8 with a horrible injury toll.

W needs way more men in motion , some offloads, some depth in the backs. Put simply we asked no questions before the 20 M line unless Teddy was on fire.

We did plenty of one out rubbish. That is not great sturcutres or systems for mine. I think its lazy to suggest so.

Absolutely agree Eddie.

 

[innsaneink]

"Getting the spoon by a mile…." .

"Or performing worse than we actually did... "
Same difference.
I thought most might pick up on the slight exaggeration.

I wasn't referring to any other years other than last year that willow mentioned... However coming last or 13th or 15th, again... Same difference - playing " free-wheeling footy"
JT has clearly stated what his ambition was re. Last. season... Some choose to ignore it... Doesn't suit their agenda.
There are two basic elements to this game, we are somewhat capable in attack.... Yet weak as pee in D.
You want them to play to their strengths.... Freewheeling. That doesn't work... And learning how to defend as a Top 4 team that you want them to be doesn't happen overnight either..
You are one of the most blinkered and one eyed posters on this subject, it's a laugh you talk about "balance" when you posts don't contain an ounce of that.

 

[Defiant]

It was obvious at the back end of last year that the shackles came off.

I even thought we went too far the other way as we blew a couple of good winning opportunities in the last few games.

If the balance can be found it will be a lot more interesting then Talyor Ball 1.0.

 

[Byron_Bay_Fan]

we could settle this never ending debate by forming our own teams from this forum - Taylor Ball verses WT Freestyle, and have it out after main game at that annual get together

 

[innsaneink]

People are kidding if they think 5 hit ups and a bomb is the closest way to success. I think its pretty lazy to call that proper structures and systems. That is just basic rubbish that made us get picked off and be very predictable.

That Cowboys games at Ctown was a disgrace, they had a QLD cup style side on the paddock and we wnet one out for 80 minutes. It was horrible tactics on the night against a side there to be beaten.

Did anyone watch the Broncos, Cowboys and Roosters play last season (the three most successful sides)

The 2 best teams Brisbane and North Qld played plenty of footy. They asked alot of quetions. They ran in numbers. Had decoys going, got some offloads going, had some depth in their backs. Roosters often spread the ball early in a set to catch a side napping.

To suggest they went one out and then put a bomb up on their way to success is pretty simplictic for mine.
**They all defended really well no doubt about that.** However it didnt mean they forgone all attack, they found a balance. Im not asking for Benji Ball and sideways rubbish. That all didnt work great, although many of those seasons we were 1 in away from the Top 8 with a horrible injury toll.

We needs way more men in motion , some offloads, some depth in the backs. Put simply we asked no questions before the 20 M line unless Teddy was on fire.

We did plenty of one out rubbish. That is not great sturcutres or systems for mine. I think its lazy to suggest so. Some games we literally sent one men up every single play to get smashed by 3 blokes.

I believe we may be making some progress with Eddie.
You mentioned why those teams can do what they do successfully regularly, but we can't.
It's not simplistic, it's not lazy.. It's fact. You can't attack until you can defend. It's defensive offence.
It's what most here are saying yet a few like you & Steve fail to see…. Despite your 'balance' addendum earlier.

 

[Tigermama]

we could settle this never ending debate by forming our own teams from this forum - Taylor Ball verses WT Freestyle, and have it out after main game at that annual get together

Hahaha, I'm all for Freestyle BBF. As long as there's equal amounts of Defence thrown in :wink:

 

[Eddie]

"Getting the spoon by a mile…." .

"Or performing worse than we actually did... "
Same difference.
I thought most might pick up on the slight exaggeration.

I wasn't referring to any other years other than last year that willow mentioned... However coming last or 13th or 15th, again... Same difference - playing " free-wheeling footy"
JT has clearly stated what his ambition was re. Last. season... Some choose to ignore it... Doesn't suit their agenda.
There are two basic elements to this game, we are somewhat capable in attack.... Yet weak as pee in D.
You want them to play to their strengths.... Freewheeling. That doesn't work... And learning how to defend as a Top 4 team that you want them to be doesn't happen overnight either..
You are one of the most blinkered and one eyed posters on this subject, it's a laugh you talk about "balance" when you posts don't contain an ounce of that.

Taylor talked up a big game when he came across. I didn't discount his vision. He did need to toughen up and focus on defence. However running one out for 80 minutes in games and calling that "tough, structured footy" I just didnt buy it like some others.

He rubbished Sheens and Potter and said "we had been down the bottom for years" and that "defence was not a priority at the Tigers" I thought it was disrespectful and said so at the time. Taylor soon found out though it was more difficult then he thought.

I just don't like the fact that Taylor and his band of apologists find 1000 different stats to spons way we improved despite finishing equal last. Last season we had less injuries then we have had for several, several years.

I thought the season was poor and worse then Potters season in 2014 which was decimated by injury.

He will be a better coach for last years experience.He knows the players betters and their strenghts. Im looking forward to this season.

 

[innsaneink]

People are kidding if they think 5 hit ups and a bomb is the closest way to success. I think its pretty lazy to call that proper structures and systems. That is just basic rubbish that made us get picked off and be very predictable.

That Cowboys games at Ctown was a disgrace, they had a QLD cup style side on the paddock and we wnet one out for 80 minutes. It was horrible tactics on the night against a side there to be beaten.

Did anyone watch the Broncos, Cowboys and Roosters play last season (the three most successful sides)

The 2 best teams Brisbane and North Qld played plenty of footy. They asked alot of quetions. They ran in numbers. Had decoys going, got some offloads going, had some depth in their backs. Roosters often spread the ball early in a set to catch a side napping.

To suggest they went one out and then put a bomb up on their way to success is pretty simplictic for mine.

They all defended really well no doubt about that. However it didnt mean they forgone all attack, they found a balance. Im not asking for Benji Ball and sideways rubbish. That all didnt work great, although many of those seasons we were 1 in away from the Top 8 with a horrible injury toll.

W needs way more men in motion , some offloads, some depth in the backs. Put simply we asked no questions before the 20 M line unless Teddy was on fire.

We did plenty of one out rubbish. That is not great sturcutres or systems for mine. I think its lazy to suggest so.

Absolutely agree Eddie.

Haha mummy back up

 

[Tigermama]

People are kidding if they think 5 hit ups and a bomb is the closest way to success. I think its pretty lazy to call that proper structures and systems. That is just basic rubbish that made us get picked off and be very predictable.

That Cowboys games at Ctown was a disgrace, they had a QLD cup style side on the paddock and we wnet one out for 80 minutes. It was horrible tactics on the night against a side there to be beaten.

Did anyone watch the Broncos, Cowboys and Roosters play last season (the three most successful sides)

The 2 best teams Brisbane and North Qld played plenty of footy. They asked alot of quetions. They ran in numbers. Had decoys going, got some offloads going, had some depth in their backs. Roosters often spread the ball early in a set to catch a side napping.

To suggest they went one out and then put a bomb up on their way to success is pretty simplictic for mine.

They all defended really well no doubt about that. However it didnt mean they forgone all attack, they found a balance. Im not asking for Benji Ball and sideways rubbish. That all didnt work great, although many of those seasons we were 1 in away from the Top 8 with a horrible injury toll.

W needs way more men in motion , some offloads, some depth in the backs. Put simply we asked no questions before the 20 M line unless Teddy was on fire.

We did plenty of one out rubbish. That is not great sturcutres or systems for mine. I think its lazy to suggest so.

Absolutely agree Eddie.

Haha mummy back up

I will always back someone up i agree with.

 

[Geo]

The 5 hit ups and a bomb is getting a bit lame isn't it….the Cowboys game is the only one I can really think of as that being the soul tactic or game plan if you like...

I'm Sure Taylor didn't send them out there with a plan to complete at less than 60% have less than 50% possession ...miss 50+ tackles a game....a poor kicking game....get dominated in the ruck end up on the wrong end of the penalty count adding more pressure to a fatigued defensive line...this happened in every game we lost...

When the Wests Tigers as a team completed at over 80% minimised the missed tackles conceded less penalties at least matched it in the ruck we won including Victories over the Storm South's Dragons Raiders and the Dogs..didn't seem to much wrong with those game plans...

A Coach can only do so much no matter which Coach...It's time some of our well paid Superstar players and young guns took ownership of their Performances ON THE FIELD..

 

[Eddie]

People are kidding if they think 5 hit ups and a bomb is the closest way to success. I think its pretty lazy to call that proper structures and systems. That is just basic rubbish that made us get picked off and be very predictable.

That Cowboys games at Ctown was a disgrace, they had a QLD cup style side on the paddock and we wnet one out for 80 minutes. It was horrible tactics on the night against a side there to be beaten.

Did anyone watch the Broncos, Cowboys and Roosters play last season (the three most successful sides)

The 2 best teams Brisbane and North Qld played plenty of footy. They asked alot of quetions. They ran in numbers. Had decoys going, got some offloads going, had some depth in their backs. Roosters often spread the ball early in a set to catch a side napping.

To suggest they went one out and then put a bomb up on their way to success is pretty simplictic for mine.
**They all defended really well no doubt about that.** However it didnt mean they forgone all attack, they found a balance. Im not asking for Benji Ball and sideways rubbish. That all didnt work great, although many of those seasons we were 1 in away from the Top 8 with a horrible injury toll.

We needs way more men in motion , some offloads, some depth in the backs. Put simply we asked no questions before the 20 M line unless Teddy was on fire.

We did plenty of one out rubbish. That is not great sturcutres or systems for mine. I think its lazy to suggest so. Some games we literally sent one men up every single play to get smashed by 3 blokes.

I believe we may be making some progress with Eddie.
You mentioned why those teams can do what they do successfully regularly, but we can't.
It's not simplistic, it's not lazy.. It's fact. You can't attack until you can defend. It's defensive offence.
It's what most here are saying yet a few like you & Steve fail to see…. Despite your 'balance' addendum earlier.

I just don't consider 15th as successful as some others i suppose.

People seem to be spinning it 1000 different ways to talk about the progress we made.

Well we went from 10 wins with a depleated side to 8 wins with a side who had an excellent record with injuries.

And Taylor disrespected Sheens and Potter with his pot shots. Did you think that was nessesary and did he back his talk up?

Im not against structures or systems. Im not against organised football.

I am against running one out from marker or one off the ruck for 80% of the game. I thought it cost us 1 or 2 games.

Maybe im a fool but i look at wins and losses, there the stats i look at most.

8 wins wont cut it this season. We need to find ways to imporve and i reckon Taylor will.

 

[innsaneink]

We all know you don't like him Eddie… That's been clear since day one
I believe it's blinding your opinion.... It's all very transparent with you..it's OK we know passion and emotion can override rationality.... And you get VERY emotional.
I can see what hes TRYING to do... Wether it's successful remains to be seen. You seem to not want to see it... You dismiss it as rubbish...the thing is I know you know footy, we both been here a long time and have read each others thoughts on many things... You're not balanced on this like you usually are... That's just passion, one eye and a that.