Wests Tigers - Defence - How to fix

I'm going to add to this it's a bit controversial, Benji should be following behind this set up and if someone is too far forward stretching the rope blast him with a cattle prod that will change attitudes, but seriously defense needs to change this year and expect it to or get ready for another disappointing season.

Very controversial when a beer costs 15 bucks and a parking ticket. And you buy all your food from the hot dog guy at the front of house cause there is no gst. And then your team loses at their home ground. Its a long, upsetting and expensive day. Where is the liability? Who owns that? But if it helps the club financially all good - just we appreciate some fun too. Like winning for a change.
 
Very controversial when a beer costs 15 bucks and a parking ticket. And you buy all your food from the hot dog guy at the front of house cause there is no gst. And then your team loses at their home ground. Its a long, upsetting and expensive day. Where is the liability? Who owns that? But if it helps the club financially all good - just we appreciate some fun too. Like winning for a change.
Now now X if your comments go manic you know I won't talk to you, it just results in a headache.
 
If we want an elite defence we need a really intelligent and commanding fullback. Billy Slater and Dylan Edwards are the best i've seen in modern positional play and knowing where and when to plug gaps and co-ordinate a team's shape from the back.

Sometimes I wonder what Bula brings to the table in this regards.
 
Long Read: 8 minutes. Technical description of defensive techniques

A bit of an explainer for those that struggle to uderstand the the commentators and pundits when defence is being talked about.

Defence is probably the most misunderstood part of the game, and even though you can break it down to X's and O's quite clinically, the keys to success, as has already been pointed out, is attitude and communication. Coaching defence can be as technical as Ciraldo's grids and changing patterns all over the field or as simple as using one system well.

If the two trials are anything to go by we have definitely changed our system of defence. We have switched from sliding to an up an in approach in our own end. In addtion we were able to start some of our defensive sets in good field position so that lends itself to us being able to execute a press defence as well. That in itself demonstrates a change in intent as "up an in" is technically more difficult to execute and starting our defensive sets in good field positon allows us to "get into the grind."

Common Defence Systems

Up and in is an attacking defensive system primarly used in your own defensive zone. That is not to say it can't be used wider. While it is a more aggressive system than what we were using in 2024 it also presents more opportunity to the attacking team if not executed well. It is a higher risk option than our old slide defence as it is open to exploitation in both depth and width. Penrith, probably the best at it in the NRL, were burnt a couple of times by the Sharks yesterday through a combination of poor reads (Garner in particular) and well executed kicks.

The other attacking defensive system, that is dependent on good field positon at the end of our attacking sets, is press defence. When commentators talk about attacking with defence they are usually talking about teams executing a press defence. The prerequiste to executing press defence is an excellent kick chase. From there it is about line speed overwhelming the attacking team to stifle their go forward. It is best executed in a corner to limit the attacking options. The defending team presents a compressed line with high line speed to pressure the oppostion into an error or at worst case a kick from deep in their own end providing good field postion to commence the next attacking set. Then it becomes a matter of execution. When you hear talk about teams getting into the grind - this is what it is about. Grinding teams down through repeated sets off their own line agaisnt a compressed and fast moving defensive line.

The most common defensive system is a slide defence where teams present a straight line across the full width of the field. the defenders slide laterally to cater for the attacking options thrown up and try to force the play, on the outside shoulder of the defender, into a compessed area bounded by the sideline. This is where you hear the term inside pressure used most (although it is also a component of up and in defence). This type of defence provides more time and space to the attacking halves, but is still effective, especially if the defenders have good line speed.

Funadamentals

Sliding and Up and In defence have a couple of common aspects in their setup. Linespeed is set by the A defenders (the two closest to the ruck but not at marker). The B defender, beside the A defender, puts inside presure on the first receiver and as soon as the defensive line has started to move towards the ball carrier. This creates a hole in the defensive line aroud the ruck that can be exploited by an inside ball or players coming back "against the grain". To counter this you need to "shut the gate". This can be done by the markers or the defenders from the other side coming across as cover. Consider these players to be the kelpies; once the gate has been closed if the ball continues to be promoted towards the sideline the kelpies provide depth to the defensive line to cover kicks, line breaks or deal with any overlaps created. If there is an overlap they herd the attackers to the sideline to limit options and either axe the player or bundle them into touch.

Going one step further back is the tackle itself. The aim, where practicable, is to get the attacking player on his back. Most teams use a three man tackle: one to tie up the ball, one to dominate the player and the last one in to take the player to the ground (take his legs). The first defender to release usually becomes an A defender. The wrestle is important as there has to be enough time for the A defender to get into position and have the line set and ready to execute.

Training

The key to training the defensive strategy is to break it down into apsects of play. The tackle, the wrestle, setting the line (A and B defender), line speed drills, compressed defence, slide defence and up and in, who goes where in cover (scramble); ie who is covering shallow and who is running a deeper line etc. Then it is a matter of executing it on the paddock. I have not seen Ciraldos's training drills but I suspect the grids laid out on the field simply represent boxes for players to work within to develop the muscle memory to execute the different defensive systems based on field postion. Cones are probably just as effective.

So how does it work practically?

If you watched Penrith yesterday Edwards passed a lot on kick returns to get wide of the compressed kick chase being executed by the Sharks. This was a an effort to prevent them having the deal with a press defence. The sharks also executed a compressed slide defence in the middle third of the field to nullify Martin, Leota and Smith. This defence limited the edge options. To counter Penrith shifted wide earlier in the middle third of the field. The early shifts forced the Sharks to get wider and once they compensated to cover this Cleary and Cole started to attack the edges with Martin and Smith. This demonstrated adaptability from both teams - something we have never seemed to be able to do on the run. In addtion, when Cleary got his kicks right, towards the end of the game in particular, Penrith executed a press defence brilliantly and ground the energy out of the sharks before putting them to the sword.

Where are we?

The limited sample of two trial matches isn't enough to write home about; but it does demonstrate that our coaching staff aren't one dimensional or static in their thinking. There are still a lot questions unanswered: are we fit enough to execute this more attacking defensive pattern for 80 minutes (we couldn't in 2024 with a less aggressive approach), has our kick return improved enough for us to get a good kick away and execute a press defence set after set (get into the grind); can we execute our kick chase for 80 minutes, are AD/Toa/Naden and Faataape capable of executing an up and in defence?

Our defence is my biggest concern, especially on the edges. I think we have the attacking capability to get down field and start our defensive sets in good field position. While our fitness appears to have improved the key to success will be be related to attitude. Do we have the resolve to get into, and stay in, the grind with the opposition? If we have the attitude we will develop the trust and communication required.

Time will tell.
I enjoyed that very much. Thank you, Jolls.
I have watched the game my whole life and played juniors but have never had this sort of theory explained clearly. If anyone has any videos or anything, please share.
 
I enjoyed that very much. Thank you, Jolls.
I have watched the game my whole life and played juniors but have never had this sort of theory explained clearly. If anyone has any videos or anything, please share.
I guess it depends on what level you have palyed at and the quality of the coaching staff as the key is communcation od the concepts. I recall going to a new club and talking about running Xs and Ys only to find that I had no idea of the play because it was different to what I understood and how we used to execute it.

I was lucky enough to play for a club that had a good system in my formative years (E grade through C grade) the country and then travelled Oz playing under several different A grade coaches with work. There were good lessons to be learnt from all of them - some on how not to coach. I also did my fair share of time as Captain/Coach and Coach in different systems (both League and Union).

I love the technical side of the game almost as much as simply enjoying it just for the spectacle. I don't have much except some very old (early 80's coaching manuals) by way of reference material, but I expect there is probably some good stuff on the net that could be grabbed. If there is enough interest perhaps we could pull together a thread on tactics, techniques and proceedures for those who want to get into the weeds of how the game is played and coached.
 
I guess it depends on what level you have palyed at and the quality of the coaching staff as the key is communcation od the concepts. I recall going to a new club and talking about running Xs and Ys only to find that I had no idea of the play because it was different to what I understood and how we used to execute it.

I was lucky enough to play for a club that had a good system in my formative years (E grade through C grade) the country and then travelled Oz playing under several different A grade coaches with work. There were good lessons to be learnt from all of them - some on how not to coach. I also did my fair share of time as Captain/Coach and Coach in different systems (both League and Union).

I love the technical side of the game almost as much as simply enjoying it just for the spectacle. I don't have much except some very old (early 80's coaching manuals) by way of reference material, but I expect there is probably some good stuff on the net that could be grabbed. If there is enough interest perhaps we could pull together a thread on tactics, techniques and proceedures for those who want to get into the weeds of how the game is played and coached.
I only played as a teenager at the local club.
I would be a keen reader of the thread but wouldn't be a good contributer
 
I only played as a teenager at the local club.
I would be a keen reader of the thread but wouldn't be a good contributer
I think for a thread like that to work it would need people who don't understand something to ask questions and get the interaction going. Posting heaps of information on tactics and coaching etc would become boring pretty quickly. Let's see if there is anything that jumps out from this game that would be of interest and we can have a crack at seeing what the brains trust comes up with - got to better that discussing issues that we have no control over.
 
Pre 90s match payment system would go a long way to fixing it. The prima donnas of todays game would need to have psychologist counselling and months off for stress leave if they had to do it, match payments, you get more for a win over a loss. Sure would see a lot more heart and sting in tackles if your mortgage payment depended on a win.
You think Penrith and Melbourne have their players on match payments?
 
A Victor Radley, Cam McInnes, Reuben Cotter type would go down a treat!
Olam (when he get's it right) could inspire a few - But looks like he's not coming back.
This is why you don't put fans in charge. When Olam left Melbourne one of the two reasons I saw why they weren't that bothered to lose him (the other being that he was a massive injury risk, funnily enough) was that he's a bad defender. He's a good tackler - no-one disagrees with that. But his reads aren't good and his positioning and lateral movement was often exposed.

Every time you ask fans how to fix a team's problems you get the same answers: the players need to work harder, hit harder, be tougher - and ideally get paid less. In fact, a good defensive structure that players understand and are capable of sticking to is far more important than just smashing into tackles over and over again.
 
I am a firm believer in rewarding the players

Ever 10th tackle you get a Big Mac voucher

And that's a starting point and for variety some weeks a KFC voucher


And if that doesn't inspire then a few video nights watching Manly from the mid 90's wow what a beautiful defence they had
At one frame and truss place I worked at we got a bbq lunch if the boys made it 1week to Friday without any lost time to injury. And a seafood spread if we made two weeks. Seafood never happened.
 
58 missed tackles. All except Terrel May and Latu Fainu.
I’m guessing no one knows how at concord. Maybe ask Terrell.

Pole and TDS - 8 missed tackles.
8 missed tackles from ya starting prop that only plays 40 odd min.
There’s a lot on here that think he’s all that, he has a long way to go and will never be the top dog, and we’re getting rid of Klem?
I bet Klem would have loved Pole’s spot against his old club.
 
Round one conceded 10 points. Lack of speed is clear they made a million metres with their backline.
 
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