Wests Tigers - Trash or Treasure

[Needaname]

We need a new 7 and 6. Total reset. A 7 with football brain that can run a team and win repeat sets. And a 6 that can look for overlaps. Its been too long. Brooks is shot to bits. Jrey is hopless . Benji past it and walters not the answer.

We should take a stab at Green. Take him on a two year contract on very little for the first year 150k but 350k in the second year. That’s a 500k package for a bloke off contract and rehabbing for a year.
He’ll spend a year around the squad whilst his rehabbing and could probably assist in coaching the halves or ‘halves nots’.
Then in 2022 when we have a more decent team we will have an experienced half to lead or cover our spine, ‘if our younger halves step up by then’

 

[jirskyr]

Moses wasn’t unfavoured here, he had a huge contract sitting in front of him, RCG and Jennings, while down on form at the time had a history of rep footy behind them,

He was less-favoured, which is the reason he left. wrt RCG and Jennings, Mbye has played Origin more recently than they did. Benji Marshall has a history of rep football, so did Jason Cayless and Ryan O'Hara, it doesn't mean you get good outcomes to sign someone who used to play Origin.

Eels have a very cut-price team in places and their coach has an enormous track record of bad results, however he seems to have finally come good with a very particular group.

Standouts however are recruiting a massive winger, having a dangerous junior 5/8th who can also tackle, and a fullback who in 8 seasons is really hitting his stride.

And Gutho is an interesting one because he played only 5 games in 3 seasons at Manly, then the first 3 years with Parramatta they chopped and changed him between wing, 5/8th and fullback. In Gutho's first 3 seasons with Parra they finished 14th, 4th and wooden spoon. But with persisting for a long time he has really hit form the past 2 seasons.

Shaun Lane - whoever thought he'd be a first grade mainstay after 4 middling seasons with Dogs, Warriors and Manly?

 

[ATown]

Lots of peeps disappointed with our ladder position and after 9 years - rightly so. I think Justin Pascoe wants to the Tigers to be a destination of choice but we are more like the last chance hotel. Other clubs trash become our treasure. It’s ok to have the odd player who was wanted for whatever reason. New club - new start, but we have nearly built an entire roster on it.

JRey - hadn’t played in the preceding 12 months at the Dogs before we signed him And was coming off contract . We basically doubled their offer. Yes he was still wanted at Dogs but not for the price or tenure of contract.

MBye - Was being shopped around by the Dogs. Huge back ended contract that we are paying for and was failing to spark the Dogs attack. It’s hard to believe that their attack was worse then than it is now.

BJ - Unwanted by the Raiders. Was being forced out with the purchase of Curtis Scott. I think we probably paid overs for him and gave him 4 years.

Eiso- Not wanted by Penrith.

Clark - see above

Twal - Not 100% sure but I think they released him to us as he was excess

Mataulino - was already struggling with significant knee issues when he arrived from Warriors

Doueihi - Could have probably stayed with Rabbits but was unlikely to be in starting 17 unless through injury.

Jennings - unwanted at Souths

Taylor - Unwanted at Penrith. Playing reserve grade

McQueen - not sure If we signed him prior to or after his neck injury but was not going to be wanted.

Robbie and Benji - their story is a bit different but without the Tigers offering them a place probably would have both retired in 2018.

There are probably others in the squad as well

Melbourne on the other hand have a core group of stars and buy the odd discard with the right attitude and that improves those players. E.g. Brenko Lee, Justin Olam, Tom Eisenhuth etc. We have tended to buy discards as marquee signings and that doesn’t really work.

Makes nightmare reading with hindsight. But in all honesty take yourself back to when the signings were announced and how did you feel? For me:

J Rey - I didn’t like it. I thought was way too much risk considering his injury issues. Couldn’t get on the park for the Dogs. Taking the price into account it was a terrible deal for us.

Mbye - I was excited when we got him mid season. When he burst on the scene at 5/8 he looked a genuine star. Also the Dogs best player that year by a mile at FB.

BJ - I was super pumped and all for it.

Eiso and Clark - meh, didn’t really have an opinion.

Twal - Pretty excited. Had reasonable wraps on him and seemed the Eels has let one slip.

Matulino - I was excited for this one as well. It was only a couple of years before we signed him he was being spoken of as one of the best forwards in the world. He was playing in the back row then and offloading at will. We got an absolute shell of that player.

Doueihi - I wanted him to sign as well but wary of over paying.

Jennings - Never interested. Fell over the line for Souths the year before a bunch on times. Suspected he was imposter and he sure is.

Taylor - thought he was a solid signing and he had been all things considered.

McQueen - one of my most hated signings. Thought he was rubbish even at his peak playing Origin. Let alone after 5 years cashing cheques at the Titans.

Benji and Robbie - getting them both back to finish their careers was a no brainer. Great decision for both on and off the field.

 

[tig_prmz]

I don't think it's worth looking back and deciding whether the signings were good/bad. We have this squad for probably another year or two- let's make the most of it. We can't just keep having clean slates. Get them mentally tougher and have pride in themselves. Don't worry about the fans or club, just prove to yourself that you're first grade material. Whether it was Woods/Teddy/Matto/Moses, we have always supported whoever has worn the jersey and we have no option but to keep supporting them.

 

[Russell]

We need a new 7 and 6. Total reset. A 7 with football brain that can run a team and win repeat sets. And a 6 that can look for overlaps. Its been too long. Brooks is shot to bits. Jrey is hopless . Benji past it and walters not the answer.

We should take a stab at Green. Take him on a two year contract on very little for the first year 150k but 350k in the second year. That’s a 500k package for a bloke off contract and rehabbing for a year.
He’ll spend a year around the squad whilst his rehabbing and could probably assist in coaching the halves or ‘halves nots’.
Then in 2022 when we have a more decent team we will have an experienced half to lead or cover our spine, ‘if our younger halves step up by then’

Looks like he just did is ACL.

 

[Guest]

We need a new 7 and 6. Total reset. A 7 with football brain that can run a team and win repeat sets. And a 6 that can look for overlaps. Its been too long. Brooks is shot to bits. Jrey is hopless . Benji past it and walters not the answer.

We should take a stab at Green. Take him on a two year contract on very little for the first year 150k but 350k in the second year. That’s a 500k package for a bloke off contract and rehabbing for a year.
He’ll spend a year around the squad whilst his rehabbing and could probably assist in coaching the halves or ‘halves nots’.
Then in 2022 when we have a more decent team we will have an experienced half to lead or cover our spine, ‘if our younger halves step up by then’

Green got carted off the field with a suspected ACL today, no thanks.

 

[Needaname]

We need a new 7 and 6. Total reset. A 7 with football brain that can run a team and win repeat sets. And a 6 that can look for overlaps. Its been too long. Brooks is shot to bits. Jrey is hopless . Benji past it and walters not the answer.

We should take a stab at Green. Take him on a two year contract on very little for the first year 150k but 350k in the second year. That’s a 500k package for a bloke off contract and rehabbing for a year.
He’ll spend a year around the squad whilst his rehabbing and could probably assist in coaching the halves or ‘halves nots’.
Then in 2022 when we have a more decent team we will have an experienced half to lead or cover our spine, ‘if our younger halves step up by then’

Looks like he just did is ACL.

I know. That was my point. His off contract. No club is going to pick him up at all.
You could offer him a close min wage 2021 and a larger contract in 2022 in the clubs favour just to get him in the side for then.

I’m sure that would be more beneficial for him given his other option is do do a season of rehab with no club paying for his physio at all...

 

[bbobb]

Lots of peeps disappointed with our ladder position and after 9 years - rightly so. I think Justin Pascoe wants to the Tigers to be a destination of choice but we are more like the last chance hotel. Other clubs trash become our treasure. It’s ok to have the odd player who was wanted for whatever reason. New club - new start, but we have nearly built an entire roster on it.

JRey - hadn’t played in the preceding 12 months at the Dogs before we signed him And was coming off contract . We basically doubled their offer. Yes he was still wanted at Dogs but not for the price or tenure of contract.

MBye - Was being shopped around by the Dogs. Huge back ended contract that we are paying for and was failing to spark the Dogs attack. It’s hard to believe that their attack was worse then than it is now.

BJ - Unwanted by the Raiders. Was being forced out with the purchase of Curtis Scott. I think we probably paid overs for him and gave him 4 years.

Eiso- Not wanted by Penrith.

Clark - see above

Twal - Not 100% sure but I think they released him to us as he was excess

Mataulino - was already struggling with significant knee issues when he arrived from Warriors

Doueihi - Could have probably stayed with Rabbits but was unlikely to be in starting 17 unless through injury.

Jennings - unwanted at Souths

Taylor - Unwanted at Penrith. Playing reserve grade

McQueen - not sure If we signed him prior to or after his neck injury but was not going to be wanted.

Robbie and Benji - their story is a bit different but without the Tigers offering them a place probably would have both retired in 2018.

There are probably others in the squad as well

Melbourne on the other hand have a core group of stars and buy the odd discard with the right attitude and that improves those players. E.g. Brenko Lee, Justin Olam, Tom Eisenhuth etc. We have tended to buy discards as marquee signings and that doesn’t really work.

Add Tim Grant to that list. Let go by Souths for return of Sam Burgess.

What is glaringly obvious to some is the way we picked up these players as you mentioned above.

What isn’t so obvious is how these players are let go from their clubs.

This is our problem right here.

JRey - hadn’t played in the preceding 12 months at the Dogs before we signed him And was coming off contract . We basically doubled their offer. Yes he was still wanted at Dogs but not for the price or tenure of contract. Let go following the signing of Foran.
MBye - Was being shopped around by the Dogs. Huge back ended contract that we are paying for and was failing to spark the Dogs attack. It’s hard to believe that their attack was worse then than it is now. Unique circumstances but basically to Free cap space for Foran and Woods signings from previous year.
BJ - Unwanted by the Raiders. Was being forced out with the purchase of Curtis Scott. I think we probably paid overs for him and gave him 4 years. Nothing to add here, spot on. This is the trend I’m highlighting.
Eiso- Not wanted by Penrith, same as below.
Clark - others preferred, cap space better off for other players.
Twal - not sure he was replaced in their squad by anyone prehaps the re recruiting of Junior Paulo.
Mataulino - one more year on contract but not sure who replaced him in the starting line up, research req.
Doueihi - Moved on following the preseason signing of Latrell Mitchell.
Jennings - Moved on the following year after the mid season signing of James Roberts, played out that year.
Taylor - Moved on, mid year following the signing of Merrin commencing, was dropped to reserves early rounds.
McQueen - Moved on, the following year the club signed proctor. Played 1 year with both backrowers.

Sorry for the long winded response, but the pattern ensuing is all these players are replaced in their squad by an improving player prior to being released.

How is this possible? Are these teams over the cap and hope to move on players prior to needing to be under or are these teams under the cap and are hoping to move on these players so they can strengthen other areas?

We just keep this door open for these teams.

Do we take them on based on their current standing not their potential or past standing? (And for Pete’s sake offer them a contract accordingly?

Or do we shut the door on these signings completely and find out once and for all whether these clubs can afford these players to remain in their salary cap?

You’re totally right. I never thought of that. By taking their leftovers, we assist in their rebuilds and strengthening their roster. ??

 

[bbobb]

Lots of peeps disappointed with our ladder position and after 9 years - rightly so. I think Justin Pascoe wants to the Tigers to be a destination of choice but we are more like the last chance hotel. Other clubs trash become our treasure. It’s ok to have the odd player who was wanted for whatever reason. New club - new start, but we have nearly built an entire roster on it.

JRey - hadn’t played in the preceding 12 months at the Dogs before we signed him And was coming off contract . We basically doubled their offer. Yes he was still wanted at Dogs but not for the price or tenure of contract.

MBye - Was being shopped around by the Dogs. Huge back ended contract that we are paying for and was failing to spark the Dogs attack. It’s hard to believe that their attack was worse then than it is now.

BJ - Unwanted by the Raiders. Was being forced out with the purchase of Curtis Scott. I think we probably paid overs for him and gave him 4 years.

Eiso- Not wanted by Penrith.

Clark - see above

Twal - Not 100% sure but I think they released him to us as he was excess

Mataulino - was already struggling with significant knee issues when he arrived from Warriors

Doueihi - Could have probably stayed with Rabbits but was unlikely to be in starting 17 unless through injury.

Jennings - unwanted at Souths

Taylor - Unwanted at Penrith. Playing reserve grade

McQueen - not sure If we signed him prior to or after his neck injury but was not going to be wanted.

Robbie and Benji - their story is a bit different but without the Tigers offering them a place probably would have both retired in 2018.

There are probably others in the squad as well

Melbourne on the other hand have a core group of stars and buy the odd discard with the right attitude and that improves those players. E.g. Brenko Lee, Justin Olam, Tom Eisenhuth etc. We have tended to buy discards as marquee signings and that doesn’t really work.

Makes nightmare reading with hindsight. But in all honesty take yourself back to when the signings were announced and how did you feel? For me:

J Rey - I didn’t like it. I thought was way too much risk considering his injury issues. Couldn’t get on the park for the Dogs. Taking the price into account it was a terrible deal for us.

Mbye - I was excited when we got him mid season. When he burst on the scene at 5/8 he looked a genuine star. Also the Dogs best player that year by a mile at FB.

BJ - I was super pumped and all for it.

Eiso and Clark - meh, didn’t really have an opinion.

Twal - Pretty excited. Had reasonable wraps on him and seemed the Eels has let one slip.

Matulino - I was excited for this one as well. It was only a couple of years before we signed him he was being spoken of as one of the best forwards in the world. He was playing in the back row then and offloading at will. We got an absolute shell of that player.

Doueihi - I wanted him to sign as well but wary of over paying.

Jennings - Never interested. Fell over the line for Souths the year before a bunch on times. Suspected he was imposter and he sure is.

Taylor - thought he was a solid signing and he had been all things considered.

McQueen - one of my most hated signings. Thought he was rubbish even at his peak playing Origin. Let alone after 5 years cashing cheques at the Titans.

Benji and Robbie - getting them both back to finish their careers was a no brainer. Great decision for both on and off the field.

I really didn’t understand the Reynolds signature. It looked like a knee jerk reaction to me when the big three left. I wasn’t sure what he would bring and well....I am still wondering.

I think Mbye is a terrible centre because he really doesn’t have the frame for it. He is too small and would be better at fullback.

I just shuddered when we signed BJ - he was a brain explosion waiting to happen ( and sure enough it did).

Also I didn’t throw Brooksy into the mix but the rumour was that when we signed him, clubs weren’t banging down the door. He could be classed as a leftover but he is more a home groan leftover.

 

[turkeytiger03]

Trash
I cannot think currently on any really good signing these past 5 years.
Let’s hope that changes sooner than later.
It looks like we spent our cap $ on players unwanted and paid overs, shows in not making finals now for 9 years.
The way AD played last night gives some credentials that we finally moving in the right direction, need to move on a few older players this off season to be more competitive in 2021.

The thing I really like about AD is his emotions when he does something wrong or a team scores. Shows that he cares and he is definitely worth sticking with.

 

[jadtiger]

Also I didn’t throw Brooksy into the mix but the rumour was that when we signed him, clubs weren’t banging down the door. He could be classed as a leftover but he is more a home groan leftover.

Melbourne wanted him and i have no doubt if he was there we would all be complaining about letting him go.I have no doubts Bellamy would make him a top half

 

[Russell]

We need a new 7 and 6. Total reset. A 7 with football brain that can run a team and win repeat sets. And a 6 that can look for overlaps. Its been too long. Brooks is shot to bits. Jrey is hopless . Benji past it and walters not the answer.

We should take a stab at Green. Take him on a two year contract on very little for the first year 150k but 350k in the second year. That’s a 500k package for a bloke off contract and rehabbing for a year.
He’ll spend a year around the squad whilst his rehabbing and could probably assist in coaching the halves or ‘halves nots’.
Then in 2022 when we have a more decent team we will have an experienced half to lead or cover our spine, ‘if our younger halves step up by then’

Looks like he just did is ACL.

I know. That was my point. His off contract. No club is going to pick him up at all.
You could offer him a close min wage 2021 and a larger contract in 2022 in the clubs favour just to get him in the side for then.

I’m sure that would be more beneficial for him given his other option is do do a season of rehab with no club paying for his physio at all...

Understand what you are saying, not worth the risk in my opinion, besides he wouldn't be available for part of next year as well.

 

[Needaname]

We need a new 7 and 6. Total reset. A 7 with football brain that can run a team and win repeat sets. And a 6 that can look for overlaps. Its been too long. Brooks is shot to bits. Jrey is hopless . Benji past it and walters not the answer.

We should take a stab at Green. Take him on a two year contract on very little for the first year 150k but 350k in the second year. That’s a 500k package for a bloke off contract and rehabbing for a year.
He’ll spend a year around the squad whilst his rehabbing and could probably assist in coaching the halves or ‘halves nots’.
Then in 2022 when we have a more decent team we will have an experienced half to lead or cover our spine, ‘if our younger halves step up by then’

Looks like he just did is ACL.

I know. That was my point. His off contract. No club is going to pick him up at all.
You could offer him a close min wage 2021 and a larger contract in 2022 in the clubs favour just to get him in the side for then.

I’m sure that would be more beneficial for him given his other option is do do a season of rehab with no club paying for his physio at all...

Understand what you are saying, not worth the risk in my opinion, besides he wouldn't be available for part of next year as well.

yeah, I forgot the squad sizes being reduced. That would play a big part in it and we need all the positions we can muster.

I do wonder whether his injury and rehab is covered by Newcastle even if he is off contract? It would be the just thing to do you would imagine.