Wests Tigers - Who are we..

[Tiger5150]

We are in the black because we get a grant from a Leagues Club and spend less than other teams on the football department, want to stay small than play in small grounds.

A big ground doesn't make you big - small venue doesnt make you small.

Success on the other hand does help you to grow - and that is our major problem. That problem wasn't caused by a venue but a series of endless internal problems and bad decisions over time.

Yes, money is a necessity in a professional sport but the argument a big ground will get us there doesn't quite equate to me.

Apart from Suncorp those large stadiums rarely have a large crowd - if anything it makes league look bad and is an indication of a game selling its soul.

Older grounds don't give you the facilities to maximise that the return on that success. We are already spending less than other clubs.

Do you have stats to support either of those points?
I watch a lot of games but it is only on the very rare occasion that a suburban ground gets sold out - bigger venues virtually never, even for finals.
We clearly have different viewpoints on this - respect yours but beg to differ.

We average higher crowds at stadiums and stadiums have better corporate facilities. We also don't spend to the level of the new football cap.

Source: https://afltables.com/rl/crowds/wests_tigers.html

To be fair, these stats can't be sorted the way I would like to and I am cherrypicking but -
Leichardt av.- 12,837
Campbelltown av. - 11,931
Bankwest av. - 9,588

I didn't include the SFS, SCG, or ANZ because semi-final stats would boost their averages - as much as I can I picked 'suburban' grounds as these are possibly truer stats - once again, I can't sort the stats as I would like so they may be distorted.
If anyone has a better source please share.

Did you eliminate stats for this year?

TBH - not sure . As I stated in my last post, I can't sort them as I would have liked.
I'm happy to be proven wrong - what evidence do you have to support your belief?

ANZ Average 22245
SFS Average 18332
Bankwest 2019 Average 15109
Leichhardt Average 12837
Campbelltown Average 11931

It's not a belief, it is a fact.


You've probably taken the same stats that I've used and provided the link for but chosen to ignore the disclaimers I put in my post to concede they may be flawed and instead tabled them as cold irrefutable facts.

You're the winner if that makes you feel better.

Trouble is you have ignored my point in that we don't need a big ground to be pprofitable.

Your disclaimers were wrong, the averages are for home regular season games only. You also provided vastly compromised averages by including this years games for Bankwest which means half the games you included for that ground were during reduced capacity for covid.

Your use of the stats were at best misleading, at worse dishonest.

We do not make as much money at the suburban grounds, that is why we play at the stadiums.

They are cold irrefutable facts.

We make more money (lose less) playing the Cowboys etc at Leichhardt & CSS thank at ANZ. Fact.

 

[cochise]

We are in the black because we get a grant from a Leagues Club and spend less than other teams on the football department, want to stay small than play in small grounds.

A big ground doesn't make you big - small venue doesnt make you small.

Success on the other hand does help you to grow - and that is our major problem. That problem wasn't caused by a venue but a series of endless internal problems and bad decisions over time.

Yes, money is a necessity in a professional sport but the argument a big ground will get us there doesn't quite equate to me.

Apart from Suncorp those large stadiums rarely have a large crowd - if anything it makes league look bad and is an indication of a game selling its soul.

Older grounds don't give you the facilities to maximise that the return on that success. We are already spending less than other clubs.

Do you have stats to support either of those points?
I watch a lot of games but it is only on the very rare occasion that a suburban ground gets sold out - bigger venues virtually never, even for finals.
We clearly have different viewpoints on this - respect yours but beg to differ.

We average higher crowds at stadiums and stadiums have better corporate facilities. We also don't spend to the level of the new football cap.

Source: https://afltables.com/rl/crowds/wests_tigers.html

To be fair, these stats can't be sorted the way I would like to and I am cherrypicking but -
Leichardt av.- 12,837
Campbelltown av. - 11,931
Bankwest av. - 9,588

I didn't include the SFS, SCG, or ANZ because semi-final stats would boost their averages - as much as I can I picked 'suburban' grounds as these are possibly truer stats - once again, I can't sort the stats as I would like so they may be distorted.
If anyone has a better source please share.

Did you eliminate stats for this year?

TBH - not sure . As I stated in my last post, I can't sort them as I would have liked.
I'm happy to be proven wrong - what evidence do you have to support your belief?

ANZ Average 22245
SFS Average 18332
Bankwest 2019 Average 15109
Leichhardt Average 12837
Campbelltown Average 11931

It's not a belief, it is a fact.


You've probably taken the same stats that I've used and provided the link for but chosen to ignore the disclaimers I put in my post to concede they may be flawed and instead tabled them as cold irrefutable facts.

You're the winner if that makes you feel better.

Trouble is you have ignored my point in that we don't need a big ground to be pprofitable.

Your disclaimers were wrong, the averages are for home regular season games only. You also provided vastly compromised averages by including this years games for Bankwest which means half the games you included for that ground were during reduced capacity for covid.

Your use of the stats were at best misleading, at worse dishonest.

We do not make as much money at the suburban grounds, that is why we play at the stadiums.

They are cold irrefutable facts.


We make more money (lose less) playing the Cowboys etc at Leichhardt & CSS thank at ANZ. Fact.

No we don't

 

[cochise]

This is a little old now but from the life of the current contracts with Venues NSW. Low drawing games cost us money at CSS and LO, especially CSS


WESTS TIGERS – Leichhardt Oval, Campbelltown Sports Stadium, ANZ Stadium



LEICHHARDT OVAL

Capacity: 20,000

Expenditure: Operational costs: $65,000 (Ground rental, hiring of the big screen, ushers, security, police, cleaning and waste removal).

Revenue

Ticket sales: $200,000 for a sell-out crowd at Leichhardt Oval. There is a budgeted difference in average ticket price between Leichhardt and Campbelltown, with about a $4-a-head higher return at Leichhardt. Undercover seats at the Leichhardt ground are scarce, therefore the higher premium charge.

Corporate: $55,000 (capacity of 550 at approximately $100 a head)

Merchandise: Roughly worth $1.20 to $1.50 a head ($35,000 in round five)

Signage: Only one stand for signage opportunity not in television range.

Average crowd: 14,279 for the past three seasons (five of the past 13games against Sydney teams).





CAMPBELLTOWN SPORTS STADIUM

Capacity: 20,000

Expenditure: Operational costs: $70,000 (ground rental, hiring of the big screen, ushers, security, police, cleaning and waste removal).

Revenue

Ticket sales: $170,000 for a sell-out crowd at Campelltown.

Merchandise: Roughly worth $1.20 to $1.50 per head ($16,000 in round six for a crowd of just more than 6000)

Corporate: $47,000 (capacity of 470 at appx $100 a head)

Signage: Greatest opportunity for signage sales of all three venues because the club has 100 per cent inventory. However, appeal is lower because games are rarely on free-to-air television.

Average crowd: 13,256 for the past three years. (Six of the past 13games against Sydney teams)





ANZ STADIUM

Capacity: 82,000

Expenditure – Operational costs: $10,000-$15,000

Revenue

ANZ Stadium: In excess of $125,000 average guarantee.

Ticket sales: $0 (ANZ Stadium receive the money from ticket sales. There is a profit-share agreement in place for when all operational costs, including gate receipts, are met. This is an incentive for the club and venue to maximise crowds and receive an equal split.)

Merchandise: Budget for $1.50 a person, with average crowd attendances budgeted for 22,000 a game. On Easter Monday, as the away team, the club sold $16,000 worth of merchandise outside the stadium. The club was not entitled to merchandise rights at the ANZ Stadium and had to sell outside the ground).

Corporate: Estimated $70,000 (maximum capacity in excess of 1000)

Signage: Shared inventory for big screen and signage.

http://www.footyindustry.com/?page_id=500

 

[Tiger5150]

This is a little old now but from the life of the current contracts with Venues NSW. Low drawing games cost us money at CSS and LO, especially CSS


WESTS TIGERS – Leichhardt Oval, Campbelltown Sports Stadium, ANZ Stadium



LEICHHARDT OVAL

Capacity: 20,000

Expenditure: Operational costs: $65,000 (Ground rental, hiring of the big screen, ushers, security, police, cleaning and waste removal).

Revenue

Ticket sales: $200,000 for a sell-out crowd at Leichhardt Oval. There is a budgeted difference in average ticket price between Leichhardt and Campbelltown, with about a $4-a-head higher return at Leichhardt. Undercover seats at the Leichhardt ground are scarce, therefore the higher premium charge.

Corporate: $55,000 (capacity of 550 at approximately $100 a head)

Merchandise: Roughly worth $1.20 to $1.50 a head ($35,000 in round five)

Signage: Only one stand for signage opportunity not in television range.

Average crowd: 14,279 for the past three seasons (five of the past 13games against Sydney teams).





CAMPBELLTOWN SPORTS STADIUM

Capacity: 20,000

Expenditure: Operational costs: $70,000 (ground rental, hiring of the big screen, ushers, security, police, cleaning and waste removal).

Revenue

Ticket sales: $170,000 for a sell-out crowd at Campelltown.

Merchandise: Roughly worth $1.20 to $1.50 per head ($16,000 in round six for a crowd of just more than 6000)

Corporate: $47,000 (capacity of 470 at appx $100 a head)

Signage: Greatest opportunity for signage sales of all three venues because the club has 100 per cent inventory. However, appeal is lower because games are rarely on free-to-air television.

Average crowd: 13,256 for the past three years. (Six of the past 13games against Sydney teams)





ANZ STADIUM

Capacity: 82,000

Expenditure – Operational costs: $10,000-$15,000

Revenue

ANZ Stadium: In excess of $125,000 average guarantee.

Ticket sales: $0 (ANZ Stadium receive the money from ticket sales. There is a profit-share agreement in place for when all operational costs, including gate receipts, are met. This is an incentive for the club and venue to maximise crowds and receive an equal split.)

Merchandise: Budget for $1.50 a person, with average crowd attendances budgeted for 22,000 a game. On Easter Monday, as the away team, the club sold $16,000 worth of merchandise outside the stadium. The club was not entitled to merchandise rights at the ANZ Stadium and had to sell outside the ground).

Corporate: Estimated $70,000 (maximum capacity in excess of 1000)

Signage: Shared inventory for big screen and signage.

http://www.footyindustry.com/?page_id=500

The point you are missing with these figures for ANZ is that those are the figures ***for the deal we have, for the games we have there.*** and this is all baked into the pie. If ANZ had another 3 games which only drew 10K, then it costs THEM money and that is factored into the deal with us. The operational costs you quote are operational costs to US not ANZ. THEY lose money on $10K crowds and it gets baked into the pie. It is worth (only slightly) more money for us to get 15K at Leichhardt than 10-15 at ANZ. Told to me by a board member about 3 years ago.

 

[cochise]

This is a little old now but from the life of the current contracts with Venues NSW. Low drawing games cost us money at CSS and LO, especially CSS


WESTS TIGERS – Leichhardt Oval, Campbelltown Sports Stadium, ANZ Stadium



LEICHHARDT OVAL

Capacity: 20,000

Expenditure: Operational costs: $65,000 (Ground rental, hiring of the big screen, ushers, security, police, cleaning and waste removal).

Revenue

Ticket sales: $200,000 for a sell-out crowd at Leichhardt Oval. There is a budgeted difference in average ticket price between Leichhardt and Campbelltown, with about a $4-a-head higher return at Leichhardt. Undercover seats at the Leichhardt ground are scarce, therefore the higher premium charge.

Corporate: $55,000 (capacity of 550 at approximately $100 a head)

Merchandise: Roughly worth $1.20 to $1.50 a head ($35,000 in round five)

Signage: Only one stand for signage opportunity not in television range.

Average crowd: 14,279 for the past three seasons (five of the past 13games against Sydney teams).





CAMPBELLTOWN SPORTS STADIUM

Capacity: 20,000

Expenditure: Operational costs: $70,000 (ground rental, hiring of the big screen, ushers, security, police, cleaning and waste removal).

Revenue

Ticket sales: $170,000 for a sell-out crowd at Campelltown.

Merchandise: Roughly worth $1.20 to $1.50 per head ($16,000 in round six for a crowd of just more than 6000)

Corporate: $47,000 (capacity of 470 at appx $100 a head)

Signage: Greatest opportunity for signage sales of all three venues because the club has 100 per cent inventory. However, appeal is lower because games are rarely on free-to-air television.

Average crowd: 13,256 for the past three years. (Six of the past 13games against Sydney teams)





ANZ STADIUM

Capacity: 82,000

Expenditure – Operational costs: $10,000-$15,000

Revenue

ANZ Stadium: In excess of $125,000 average guarantee.

Ticket sales: $0 (ANZ Stadium receive the money from ticket sales. There is a profit-share agreement in place for when all operational costs, including gate receipts, are met. This is an incentive for the club and venue to maximise crowds and receive an equal split.)

Merchandise: Budget for $1.50 a person, with average crowd attendances budgeted for 22,000 a game. On Easter Monday, as the away team, the club sold $16,000 worth of merchandise outside the stadium. The club was not entitled to merchandise rights at the ANZ Stadium and had to sell outside the ground).

Corporate: Estimated $70,000 (maximum capacity in excess of 1000)

Signage: Shared inventory for big screen and signage.

http://www.footyindustry.com/?page_id=500


The point you are missing with these figures for ANZ is that those are the figures ***for the deal we have, for the games we have there.*** and this is all baked into the pie. If ANZ had another 3 games which only drew 10K, then it costs THEM money and that is factored into the deal with us. The operational costs you quote are operational costs to US not ANZ. THEY lose money on $10K crowds and it gets baked into the pie. It is worth (only slightly) more money for us to get 15K at Leichhardt than 10-15 at ANZ. Told to me by a board member about 3 years ago.

I'll take your word on that, I'm not surprised we are making money at 15k at LO, but that is not a low drawing game there. The average is below 13k.

 

[mikey]

We are in the black because we get a grant from a Leagues Club and spend less than other teams on the football department, want to stay small than play in small grounds.

A big ground doesn't make you big - small venue doesnt make you small.

Success on the other hand does help you to grow - and that is our major problem. That problem wasn't caused by a venue but a series of endless internal problems and bad decisions over time.

Yes, money is a necessity in a professional sport but the argument a big ground will get us there doesn't quite equate to me.

Apart from Suncorp those large stadiums rarely have a large crowd - if anything it makes league look bad and is an indication of a game selling its soul.

Older grounds don't give you the facilities to maximise that the return on that success. We are already spending less than other clubs.

Do you have stats to support either of those points?
I watch a lot of games but it is only on the very rare occasion that a suburban ground gets sold out - bigger venues virtually never, even for finals.
We clearly have different viewpoints on this - respect yours but beg to differ.

We average higher crowds at stadiums and stadiums have better corporate facilities. We also don't spend to the level of the new football cap.

Source: https://afltables.com/rl/crowds/wests_tigers.html

To be fair, these stats can't be sorted the way I would like to and I am cherrypicking but -
Leichardt av.- 12,837
Campbelltown av. - 11,931
Bankwest av. - 9,588

I didn't include the SFS, SCG, or ANZ because semi-final stats would boost their averages - as much as I can I picked 'suburban' grounds as these are possibly truer stats - once again, I can't sort the stats as I would like so they may be distorted.
If anyone has a better source please share.

Did you eliminate stats for this year?

TBH - not sure . As I stated in my last post, I can't sort them as I would have liked.
I'm happy to be proven wrong - what evidence do you have to support your belief?

ANZ Average 22245
SFS Average 18332
Bankwest 2019 Average 15109
Leichhardt Average 12837
Campbelltown Average 11931

It's not a belief, it is a fact.


You've probably taken the same stats that I've used and provided the link for but chosen to ignore the disclaimers I put in my post to concede they may be flawed and instead tabled them as cold irrefutable facts.

You're the winner if that makes you feel better.

Trouble is you have ignored my point in that we don't need a big ground to be pprofitable.

Your disclaimers were wrong, the averages are for home regular season games only. You also provided vastly compromised averages by including this years games for Bankwest which means half the games you included for that ground were during reduced capacity for covid.

Your use of the stats were at best misleading, at worse dishonest.

We do not make as much money at the suburban grounds, that is why we play at the stadiums.

They are cold irrefutable facts.

I'd like to know how you came up with my disclaimers are wrong when there is no detail/ explanation about the meaning of the stats on the website I used.

Thank you for calling me dishonest. I was trying to be conciliatory and concessional in putting the disclaimers in - in fact I wrote they may be wrong - but that doesn't appear to have any meaning to you. As a moderator, most posters would have an expectation you shouldn't be so insulting, provocative and inflammatory.

 

[twentyforty]

Who are we?
It’s a great question but needs to have 2 related questions to give it real meaning.. those are
Q..who do we want to be?
Q. How do we achieve this?
My question is..Do we have anyone, anyone in the organisation capable of asking and getting answers to all 3 questions?
Or is it a case of occasionally getting in such a guy and expecting that guy to change the earths axis until those who reject change form a lynch mob?

 

[cochise]

We are in the black because we get a grant from a Leagues Club and spend less than other teams on the football department, want to stay small than play in small grounds.

A big ground doesn't make you big - small venue doesnt make you small.

Success on the other hand does help you to grow - and that is our major problem. That problem wasn't caused by a venue but a series of endless internal problems and bad decisions over time.

Yes, money is a necessity in a professional sport but the argument a big ground will get us there doesn't quite equate to me.

Apart from Suncorp those large stadiums rarely have a large crowd - if anything it makes league look bad and is an indication of a game selling its soul.

Older grounds don't give you the facilities to maximise that the return on that success. We are already spending less than other clubs.

Do you have stats to support either of those points?
I watch a lot of games but it is only on the very rare occasion that a suburban ground gets sold out - bigger venues virtually never, even for finals.
We clearly have different viewpoints on this - respect yours but beg to differ.

We average higher crowds at stadiums and stadiums have better corporate facilities. We also don't spend to the level of the new football cap.

Source: https://afltables.com/rl/crowds/wests_tigers.html

To be fair, these stats can't be sorted the way I would like to and I am cherrypicking but -
Leichardt av.- 12,837
Campbelltown av. - 11,931
Bankwest av. - 9,588

I didn't include the SFS, SCG, or ANZ because semi-final stats would boost their averages - as much as I can I picked 'suburban' grounds as these are possibly truer stats - once again, I can't sort the stats as I would like so they may be distorted.
If anyone has a better source please share.

Did you eliminate stats for this year?

TBH - not sure . As I stated in my last post, I can't sort them as I would have liked.
I'm happy to be proven wrong - what evidence do you have to support your belief?

ANZ Average 22245
SFS Average 18332
Bankwest 2019 Average 15109
Leichhardt Average 12837
Campbelltown Average 11931

It's not a belief, it is a fact.


You've probably taken the same stats that I've used and provided the link for but chosen to ignore the disclaimers I put in my post to concede they may be flawed and instead tabled them as cold irrefutable facts.

You're the winner if that makes you feel better.

Trouble is you have ignored my point in that we don't need a big ground to be pprofitable.

Your disclaimers were wrong, the averages are for home regular season games only. You also provided vastly compromised averages by including this years games for Bankwest which means half the games you included for that ground were during reduced capacity for covid.

Your use of the stats were at best misleading, at worse dishonest.

We do not make as much money at the suburban grounds, that is why we play at the stadiums.

They are cold irrefutable facts.

I'd like to know how you came up with my disclaimers are wrong when there is no detail/ explanation about the meaning of the stats on the website I used.

Thank you for calling me dishonest. I was trying to be conciliatory and concessional in putting the disclaimers in - in fact I wrote they may be wrong - but that doesn't appear to have any meaning to you. As a moderator, most posters would have an expectation you shouldn't be so insulting, provocative and inflammatory.

I didn't call you dishonest, I said your stats were at best misleading at worse dishonest. If you read the graphs on afl tables the averages are broken up into home and away regular seasons and finals, these are all collated separately. Too also include the Bankwest crowds for this year skews the data terribly as ends meaning that 50% of the home games we have had there were covid effected games with a max crowd of 7500. It seems like you omitted any information that disproved your point, even though that information was easily available on the link you provided.

Now you may have done all that by accident but even then it is still incredibly misleading.

 

[cochise]

We are in the black because we get a grant from a Leagues Club and spend less than other teams on the football department, want to stay small than play in small grounds.

A big ground doesn't make you big - small venue doesnt make you small.

Success on the other hand does help you to grow - and that is our major problem. That problem wasn't caused by a venue but a series of endless internal problems and bad decisions over time.

Yes, money is a necessity in a professional sport but the argument a big ground will get us there doesn't quite equate to me.

Apart from Suncorp those large stadiums rarely have a large crowd - if anything it makes league look bad and is an indication of a game selling its soul.

Older grounds don't give you the facilities to maximise that the return on that success. We are already spending less than other clubs.

Do you have stats to support either of those points?
I watch a lot of games but it is only on the very rare occasion that a suburban ground gets sold out - bigger venues virtually never, even for finals.
We clearly have different viewpoints on this - respect yours but beg to differ.

We average higher crowds at stadiums and stadiums have better corporate facilities. We also don't spend to the level of the new football cap.

Source: https://afltables.com/rl/crowds/wests_tigers.html

To be fair, these stats can't be sorted the way I would like to and I am cherrypicking but -
Leichardt av.- 12,837
Campbelltown av. - 11,931
Bankwest av. - 9,588

I didn't include the SFS, SCG, or ANZ because semi-final stats would boost their averages - as much as I can I picked 'suburban' grounds as these are possibly truer stats - once again, I can't sort the stats as I would like so they may be distorted.
If anyone has a better source please share.

Did you eliminate stats for this year?

TBH - not sure . As I stated in my last post, I can't sort them as I would have liked.
I'm happy to be proven wrong - what evidence do you have to support your belief?

ANZ Average 22245
SFS Average 18332
Bankwest 2019 Average 15109
Leichhardt Average 12837
Campbelltown Average 11931

It's not a belief, it is a fact.


You've probably taken the same stats that I've used and provided the link for but chosen to ignore the disclaimers I put in my post to concede they may be flawed and instead tabled them as cold irrefutable facts.

You're the winner if that makes you feel better.

Trouble is you have ignored my point in that we don't need a big ground to be pprofitable.

How is this post conciliatory and concessional? I did ignore your disclaimers because they were wrong and the link you provided clearly showed that as the stats were broken up into home and away and finals, all with different averages?

 

[mikey]

We are in the black because we get a grant from a Leagues Club and spend less than other teams on the football department, want to stay small than play in small grounds.

A big ground doesn't make you big - small venue doesnt make you small.

Success on the other hand does help you to grow - and that is our major problem. That problem wasn't caused by a venue but a series of endless internal problems and bad decisions over time.

Yes, money is a necessity in a professional sport but the argument a big ground will get us there doesn't quite equate to me.

Apart from Suncorp those large stadiums rarely have a large crowd - if anything it makes league look bad and is an indication of a game selling its soul.

Older grounds don't give you the facilities to maximise that the return on that success. We are already spending less than other clubs.

Do you have stats to support either of those points?
I watch a lot of games but it is only on the very rare occasion that a suburban ground gets sold out - bigger venues virtually never, even for finals.
We clearly have different viewpoints on this - respect yours but beg to differ.

We average higher crowds at stadiums and stadiums have better corporate facilities. We also don't spend to the level of the new football cap.

Source: https://afltables.com/rl/crowds/wests_tigers.html

To be fair, these stats can't be sorted the way I would like to and I am cherrypicking but -
Leichardt av.- 12,837
Campbelltown av. - 11,931
Bankwest av. - 9,588

I didn't include the SFS, SCG, or ANZ because semi-final stats would boost their averages - as much as I can I picked 'suburban' grounds as these are possibly truer stats - once again, I can't sort the stats as I would like so they may be distorted.
If anyone has a better source please share.

Did you eliminate stats for this year?

TBH - not sure . As I stated in my last post, I can't sort them as I would have liked.
I'm happy to be proven wrong - what evidence do you have to support your belief?

ANZ Average 22245
SFS Average 18332
Bankwest 2019 Average 15109
Leichhardt Average 12837
Campbelltown Average 11931

It's not a belief, it is a fact.


You've probably taken the same stats that I've used and provided the link for but chosen to ignore the disclaimers I put in my post to concede they may be flawed and instead tabled them as cold irrefutable facts.

You're the winner if that makes you feel better.

Trouble is you have ignored my point in that we don't need a big ground to be pprofitable.

Your disclaimers were wrong, the averages are for home regular season games only. You also provided vastly compromised averages by including this years games for Bankwest which means half the games you included for that ground were during reduced capacity for covid.

Your use of the stats were at best misleading, at worse dishonest.

We do not make as much money at the suburban grounds, that is why we play at the stadiums.

They are cold irrefutable facts.

I'd like to know how you came up with my disclaimers are wrong when there is no detail/ explanation about the meaning of the stats on the website I used.

Thank you for calling me dishonest. I was trying to be conciliatory and concessional in putting the disclaimers in - in fact I wrote they may be wrong - but that doesn't appear to have any meaning to you. As a moderator, most posters would have an expectation you shouldn't be so insulting, provocative and inflammatory.

I didn't call you dishonest, I said your stats were at best misleading at worse dishonest. If you read the graphs on afl tables the averages are broken up into home and away regular seasons and finals, these are all collated separately. Too also include the Bankwest crowds for this year skews the data terribly as ends meaning that 50% of the home games we have had there were covid effected games with a max crowd of 7500. It seems like you omitted any information that disproved your point, even though that information was easily available on the link you provided.

Now you may have done all that by accident but even then it is still incredibly misleading.

You state you didn't call me dishonest but then quote yourself as saying so - it's an interesting way of approaching things.
If you think i tried to lie/ deceive you on purpose because I have an agenda Imaybe it's time to breathe and think again. Read my post again - I clearly stated the numbers were couldn't be sorted/ understood from how they stand. if you believe they are that's fine but to me they aren't.
At the end of the day I disagree with how you see things re large stadiums. I'm sure their are people who hold our differing views. I'm fine with that but do take exception to people who need to insult/namecall others.

 

[innsaneink]

The old Markets pub

It was where Balmain went along with 5D when Rozelle closed

Haven't been there in years is there anything WTs there?

 

[Geo]

The old Markets pub

It was where Balmain went along with 5D when Rozelle closed

Haven't been there in years is there anything WTs there?

It's Tigers as in Balmain branded..

 

[cochise]

We are in the black because we get a grant from a Leagues Club and spend less than other teams on the football department, want to stay small than play in small grounds.

A big ground doesn't make you big - small venue doesnt make you small.

Success on the other hand does help you to grow - and that is our major problem. That problem wasn't caused by a venue but a series of endless internal problems and bad decisions over time.

Yes, money is a necessity in a professional sport but the argument a big ground will get us there doesn't quite equate to me.

Apart from Suncorp those large stadiums rarely have a large crowd - if anything it makes league look bad and is an indication of a game selling its soul.

Older grounds don't give you the facilities to maximise that the return on that success. We are already spending less than other clubs.

Do you have stats to support either of those points?
I watch a lot of games but it is only on the very rare occasion that a suburban ground gets sold out - bigger venues virtually never, even for finals.
We clearly have different viewpoints on this - respect yours but beg to differ.

We average higher crowds at stadiums and stadiums have better corporate facilities. We also don't spend to the level of the new football cap.

Source: https://afltables.com/rl/crowds/wests_tigers.html

To be fair, these stats can't be sorted the way I would like to and I am cherrypicking but -
Leichardt av.- 12,837
Campbelltown av. - 11,931
Bankwest av. - 9,588

I didn't include the SFS, SCG, or ANZ because semi-final stats would boost their averages - as much as I can I picked 'suburban' grounds as these are possibly truer stats - once again, I can't sort the stats as I would like so they may be distorted.
If anyone has a better source please share.

Did you eliminate stats for this year?

TBH - not sure . As I stated in my last post, I can't sort them as I would have liked.
I'm happy to be proven wrong - what evidence do you have to support your belief?

ANZ Average 22245
SFS Average 18332
Bankwest 2019 Average 15109
Leichhardt Average 12837
Campbelltown Average 11931

It's not a belief, it is a fact.


You've probably taken the same stats that I've used and provided the link for but chosen to ignore the disclaimers I put in my post to concede they may be flawed and instead tabled them as cold irrefutable facts.

You're the winner if that makes you feel better.

Trouble is you have ignored my point in that we don't need a big ground to be pprofitable.

Your disclaimers were wrong, the averages are for home regular season games only. You also provided vastly compromised averages by including this years games for Bankwest which means half the games you included for that ground were during reduced capacity for covid.

Your use of the stats were at best misleading, at worse dishonest.

We do not make as much money at the suburban grounds, that is why we play at the stadiums.

They are cold irrefutable facts.

I'd like to know how you came up with my disclaimers are wrong when there is no detail/ explanation about the meaning of the stats on the website I used.

Thank you for calling me dishonest. I was trying to be conciliatory and concessional in putting the disclaimers in - in fact I wrote they may be wrong - but that doesn't appear to have any meaning to you. As a moderator, most posters would have an expectation you shouldn't be so insulting, provocative and inflammatory.

I didn't call you dishonest, I said your stats were at best misleading at worse dishonest. If you read the graphs on afl tables the averages are broken up into home and away regular seasons and finals, these are all collated separately. Too also include the Bankwest crowds for this year skews the data terribly as ends meaning that 50% of the home games we have had there were covid effected games with a max crowd of 7500. It seems like you omitted any information that disproved your point, even though that information was easily available on the link you provided.

Now you may have done all that by accident but even then it is still incredibly misleading.

You state you didn't call me dishonest but then quote yourself as saying so - it's an interesting way of approaching things.
If you think i tried to lie/ deceive you on purpose because I have an agenda Imaybe it's time to breathe and think again. Read my post again - I clearly stated the numbers were couldn't be sorted/ understood from how they stand. if you believe they are that's fine but to me they aren't.
At the end of the day I disagree with how you see things re large stadiums. I'm sure their are people who hold our differing views. I'm fine with that but do take exception to people who need to insult/namecall others.

I said your use of stats was either misleading or dishonest and u stand by that. The stats didn't even need to be sorted, they already had been. You only supplied the stats that supported your argument while the others were sitting right there. I understand it was probably a mistake but it is still misleading.

 

[Russell]

Hope you are enjoying the argument Cochise - I know you love it and enjoy winding people up.

However all the figures in the world - this one, that one etc....

Do not explain why I enjoy games at Leichhardt more than anywhere else, I don't care if the pies are better at ANZ or the seating is better at Parramatta Stadium (which it will always be) no matter what you call it - they do not increase my experience one iota.

So - with a lick of paint and a new MTB (Morrison toilet block) and a few bits and pieces - it is Leichhardt for me - don't care what the stats are.

When I'm dead and buried - they can play wherever they like.

 

[Jedi_Tiger]

Agree with Russell on this one Leichardt is an experience you know what you get nostalgia and although we have not had best of luck in final games over the years it still should have some games played along with CSS. You can't put a price on crowd atmosphere if you don't like amenities at LO or parking then don't go

 

[Tiger5150]

Agree with Russell on this one Leichardt is an experience you know what you get nostalgia and although we have not had best of luck in final games over the years it still should have some games played along with CSS. You can't put a price on crowd atmosphere if you don't like amenities at LO or parking then don't go

When anyone wants to criticise LO, parking is always cited as a problem. Can someone point to a large stadium other than ANZ with reasonable parking?

 

[mikey]

We are in the black because we get a grant from a Leagues Club and spend less than other teams on the football department, want to stay small than play in small grounds.

A big ground doesn't make you big - small venue doesnt make you small.

Success on the other hand does help you to grow - and that is our major problem. That problem wasn't caused by a venue but a series of endless internal problems and bad decisions over time.

Yes, money is a necessity in a professional sport but the argument a big ground will get us there doesn't quite equate to me.

Apart from Suncorp those large stadiums rarely have a large crowd - if anything it makes league look bad and is an indication of a game selling its soul.

Older grounds don't give you the facilities to maximise that the return on that success. We are already spending less than other clubs.

Do you have stats to support either of those points?
I watch a lot of games but it is only on the very rare occasion that a suburban ground gets sold out - bigger venues virtually never, even for finals.
We clearly have different viewpoints on this - respect yours but beg to differ.

We average higher crowds at stadiums and stadiums have better corporate facilities. We also don't spend to the level of the new football cap.

Source: https://afltables.com/rl/crowds/wests_tigers.html

To be fair, these stats can't be sorted the way I would like to and I am cherrypicking but -
Leichardt av.- 12,837
Campbelltown av. - 11,931
Bankwest av. - 9,588

I didn't include the SFS, SCG, or ANZ because semi-final stats would boost their averages - as much as I can I picked 'suburban' grounds as these are possibly truer stats - once again, I can't sort the stats as I would like so they may be distorted.
If anyone has a better source please share.

Did you eliminate stats for this year?

TBH - not sure . As I stated in my last post, I can't sort them as I would have liked.
I'm happy to be proven wrong - what evidence do you have to support your belief?

ANZ Average 22245
SFS Average 18332
Bankwest 2019 Average 15109
Leichhardt Average 12837
Campbelltown Average 11931

It's not a belief, it is a fact.


You've probably taken the same stats that I've used and provided the link for but chosen to ignore the disclaimers I put in my post to concede they may be flawed and instead tabled them as cold irrefutable facts.

You're the winner if that makes you feel better.

Trouble is you have ignored my point in that we don't need a big ground to be pprofitable.

Your disclaimers were wrong, the averages are for home regular season games only. You also provided vastly compromised averages by including this years games for Bankwest which means half the games you included for that ground were during reduced capacity for covid.

Your use of the stats were at best misleading, at worse dishonest.

We do not make as much money at the suburban grounds, that is why we play at the stadiums.

They are cold irrefutable facts.

I'd like to know how you came up with my disclaimers are wrong when there is no detail/ explanation about the meaning of the stats on the website I used.

Thank you for calling me dishonest. I was trying to be conciliatory and concessional in putting the disclaimers in - in fact I wrote they may be wrong - but that doesn't appear to have any meaning to you. As a moderator, most posters would have an expectation you shouldn't be so insulting, provocative and inflammatory.

I didn't call you dishonest, I said your stats were at best misleading at worse dishonest. If you read the graphs on afl tables the averages are broken up into home and away regular seasons and finals, these are all collated separately. Too also include the Bankwest crowds for this year skews the data terribly as ends meaning that 50% of the home games we have had there were covid effected games with a max crowd of 7500. It seems like you omitted any information that disproved your point, even though that information was easily available on the link you provided.

Now you may have done all that by accident but even then it is still incredibly misleading.

You state you didn't call me dishonest but then quote yourself as saying so - it's an interesting way of approaching things.
If you think i tried to lie/ deceive you on purpose because I have an agenda Imaybe it's time to breathe and think again. Read my post again - I clearly stated the numbers were couldn't be sorted/ understood from how they stand. if you believe they are that's fine but to me they aren't.
At the end of the day I disagree with how you see things re large stadiums. I'm sure their are people who hold our differing views. I'm fine with that but do take exception to people who need to insult/namecall others.

I said your use of stats was either misleading or dishonest and u stand by that. The stats didn't even need to be sorted, they already had been. You only supplied the stats that supported your argument while the others were sitting right there. I understand it was probably a mistake but it is still misleading.

Dog - bone - have a nice day making up your version of events.

Please ignore any posts I make in the future because I won't be responding to yours.

 

[Russell]

Agree with Russell on this one Leichardt is an experience you know what you get nostalgia and although we have not had best of luck in final games over the years it still should have some games played along with CSS. You can't put a price on crowd atmosphere if you don't like amenities at LO or parking then don't go


When anyone wants to criticise LO, parking is always cited as a problem. Can someone point to a large stadium other than ANZ with reasonable parking?

I don't have a problem parking, never have - trouble is people want to park and walk five steps into the ground.

 

[Tiger5150]

Agree with Russell on this one Leichardt is an experience you know what you get nostalgia and although we have not had best of luck in final games over the years it still should have some games played along with CSS. You can't put a price on crowd atmosphere if you don't like amenities at LO or parking then don't go


When anyone wants to criticise LO, parking is always cited as a problem. Can someone point to a large stadium other than ANZ with reasonable parking?

I don't have a problem parking, never have - trouble is people want to park and walk five steps into the ground.

Same. Orange Grove works perfectly.

 

[Jedi_Tiger]

I park down past le montage over the other side of bay and walk across the bridge.