You asked for it, here it is

jirskyr

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I was thinking today, club direction on a knife edge, we are going to move forward regardless of whether players re-sign or not, so what does that look like?

I started to wonder how badly Tigers really need guys like Tedesco and Woods right now, and how badly we just need 5 or 6 less talented but tougher, more reliable players?

Tigers have for a long time had teams with a lot of money spent in a few key positions. It used to be Benji + Prince, then Farah replaced Prince, now it's become Broses, Teddy, Woods. We've usually struggled for consistency because we rely so heavily on the output of a talented few high-profile players. For all the poor results we've had as a club, we have had some of the highest-profile players going around. Even now, Tigers sit in 14th spot, however the media coverage of our players is HUGE. Gareth Widdop is off contract, so is Milford, Shaun Johnson, now Cronk… all big-time players and none of them getting the kind of media that is sticking to our guys.

Maybe it's time to have less show-pony players, less highlight-reel players and more guys who just do their job every week. James Tedesco is great, he really is, but honestly he doesn't win that many games for us by himself. In clutch situations, I don't recall Tedesco making the magic play to win the game. And that's no slight on Tedesco himself, just that for all his talents he's not in the same league of consistency as a Cronk, Smith or Thurston, even if he wants their paypackets.

Smoking Gun said something along these lines, that stuck in my head. We have 4 players taking up a lot of the salary cap, it hasn't worked out for us, and we have for months been offering big contracts to keep these same 4 players at the club for the same high prices. Now fans are getting worried that these Big 4 might leave - but we've had the Big 4 for 3 years and it's been not great. There are many potential reasons for the lack of results (coach, club stability etc.), but one possibility is that the Big 4 just aren't going to do it for us.

But my other line of thinking, the reason for the title, is that people have for so long been screaming for overhaul at the Tigers, at all levels. In less than 3 years we've overhauled the board members and structure, we have a new CEO, we have a new coach. The facilities have been modestly upgraded once and there is a plan for a very big upgrade in the next few years.

What is left? People are asking for changes to make Tigers a better club, what's left to overhaul? Don't say the board, we already did that, time to stick solid for a little while.

The answer is: the players and what we consider a good roster. For all the planning, prep and strategy, the players are 100% responsible for what happens on the field. We had a mini clean-out a few years back, but frankly Heighno, Gibbs, Ryan... that's not so much. Benji left with some noise and obviously moving Farah on was like passing a kidney stone. Sure, there's a limit to the amount of roster turnover you should encorage, but with a fresh start at the management and coaching level, plus an open salary cap, it seems logical that now is the right time to overhaul the way we build our roster.

Cleary has it right - there's a new sheriff so to speak and things need to be done differently, because things being done the same will change nothing. Players who don't want to be part of the changes, players who don't want to own the changes or feel uncomfortable... even players who think they can do better elsewhere with different facilities or team-mates, well they can all go to hell because the changes need to happen and we need people on-board with the plan.

Tigers have always had issues with people within the club not being on-board with the long-term plan. Too many players or officials in the past have had their own, conflicting ideas. We all think Potter and to quite an extent JT were hobbled by the setup and expectations of other people.

Anyway I started this intending to be succinct, it ended up being a rant. I suppose what I want to say is fans have been asking for changes for so long, and it's pretty easy to swallow a new coach or CEO, but it hurts when fan-fave players move on. But perhaps that's exactly the final overhaul Wests Tigers need, get rid of the blokes who play well only when conditions suit, rid of players with weak mentality, who capitulate under pressure, or those who just want things a bit easier, want to be somewhere else.
 
Well said.

Even if you kind of more sound hopeful then convinced (like me and many)

The players have been the one constant in the past 5 years.

The way we have built our roster has been poor and that is not the players fault.

Now these guys like Teddy and Woods there is not doubting there quality. However like you said do they get us to finals? Do they stand up in the clutch?

Teams like Canberra and Penrith thave proved there is hope of rebuilding around a model of a balanced and hard working team (and some gun recruiting of players that were not superstars but soon became very good players)

Lookout why Ricky has done at Canberra. He build a culture around hard work, respecting the clubs history and no …. Heads. Now people want to play there, and stay there. We should aspire to that.
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We have our best coaches since Sheens so I am excited in some respects.

Im not silly enough to think there is not going to be more pain. However's it not like we have been flushed with success with this roster or culture within the playing group.
 
i am excited. i mean losing tedesco is sad but the roster refresh from the rest is exciting
 
Our club has been a shambles for years with poor management and now it's been raped and pillaged for its players, coach Cleary has full control of the team which is a huge step forward but losing Tedesco is about 10 steps back.
 
Yep. Good rant.
But losing Tedesco would be possibly too deflating, even for the revolutionary.
 
It's going to be a tough few years I believe but I agree this is an opportunity to come out a better club. It's a rare opportunity to start from scratch and build the club up. We may not end up with any superstars but we can have a team that will play for each other. I'd love to play finals footy every year but realistically we are a few yeas from that
 
We need to recruit players that go well when things are tough, players that can handle adversity and stick to a game plan…players that keep playing regardless of the score, not ones that slacken off at 12 points up, players that continue to compete even if ahead by 20 or behind by 20 at 78 min mark.

Being a development club can not be our mantra anymore
Goals of a certain amount of local juniors by a certain time was ridiculous
 
I didn't ask..thanks anyway…

So another few watershed breakthrough clean out re-building no wait re-engineering years ahead....woooooot
 
Cleary was hired to do a job.He was hoping to keep Woods and Tedesco but according to the rumours that wont happen so what you have left is a complete rebuild with a balanced team.I would hope that very few of the other players off contract will be here next year.
Cleary has a difficult job but hopefully he can make it happen.We need astute purchases to rectify our glaring faults not pensioners coming here for their superannuation as we have done too many times in the past.
 
Sad to see any player leave who has come up through the ranks and even harder when they are now top notch players, but as a club we have been on struggle street for a long time so just maybe it will work out for the better long term, I just see some real hard times ahead in the short term. Very hard to attract players to your club when you lack the odd super star, look at Newcastle, they are in the same boat.

Really any anger should be directed at the NRl for allowing clubs like the Chooks to have such a advantage over most of the other clubs
 
The litmus test for this board and management is the signature of Teddy. That is the serious proof we can match it with other clubs when it comes to elite player retention. You can rebuild and restructure all you like but when it comes to holding the ones we want, we just ain't in the hunt. If Brooks should happen to find his feet without Moses and fulfill this long awaited potential, you can be sure in 2020 he will be at another club.
 
@ said:
I didn't ask..thanks anyway…

So another few watershed breakthrough clean out re-building no wait re-engineering years ahead....woooooot

Reverse engineering mate .

Woods …..meh

Tedesco :brick:

Let the good times roll !
 
The bonus for Ivan is that guys like Woods and Teddy are off contract. At Penrith when he moved on the big money he paid a premium for it.

These guys being off contract ensure that he will have near on the full cap at his disposal, sans the half a dozen blokes already signed.

A champion team, rather than a team of champions. Love or hate Ricky, he really has the players buying into his vision at Canberra.
 
A good opening post and what comes through to me, the names, contracts, strategy etc reminds me that it has been one long overhaul of the club (4 years) that has moved the club away from the Sheens era. Let's look at the collateral damage/actions:

4 coaches and numerous support staff
3 (or 4?) CEO's
Loan from the NRL (repaid)
Balmain giving up 25% equity on a temporary basis
New board
New chairperson

All of this uses the commodity the fans hold the least - time and patience. Further, and in addition to the above, the cap and contract structure had to be brought under control. We are now on the edge of completing the overhaul with the club. Structurally and business wise, the club has built a platform from which to grow. Once the contracts for Tedesco, Woods and Moses are finalised, it's onwards and upwards, regardless of what they do.
 
This is a good post. And not just because you referenced my brilliant mind in it haha.

Like I've said numerous times, if tigers were ever gonna lose Tedesco this is probably the best time to do it because there's plenty of quality players available as well as cap space to build a team.

Tigers have already made some good signings now while not earth shattering they are quality in matulino and mcqueen. Origin and international experience. And there will be more to come.

Fans can sit there and choose to have a cry about things but like I've said before, what are you really losing? No finals in 6 years and no finals with "the big 4" the last 3 years.

FYI I'm still of the belief Tedesco will stay.
 
@ said:
This is a good post. And not just because you referenced my brilliant mind in it haha.

Like I've said numerous times, if tigers were ever gonna lose Tedesco this is probably the best time to do it because there's plenty of quality players available as well as cap space to build a team.

Tigers have already made some good signings now while not earth shattering they are quality in matulino and mcqueen. Origin and international experience. And there will be more to come.

Fans can sit there and choose to have a cry about things but like I've said before, what are you really losing? No finals in 6 years and no finals with "the big 4" the last 3 years.

FYI I'm still of the belief Tedesco will stay.

I dont know what you are basing Teddy staying on, but I hope you are right, Woods can leave, for the dollars he can get elsewhere we can get 2 good forwards.
 
Well said

Maybe the best thing for the club is to say to woods & teddy is do you want to re-sign now if not then we don't want to be holding on for another couple of weeks/months for your decision and to sign other players as if they aren't going to be here

We are always in the media over these 2 by waiting for them to make up their minds

Time to move on and sign players from other clubs

I have total faith in cleary to turn this club around with or without woods/ tedesco

Make up your minds now or be pushed out, it will be hard times to begin with but it will pay off in the long run if we sign players that will play with all their hearts
 
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