Stefano Utoikamanu #241

If he is gone, as it sounds in that report, then take a serious Moneyball approach.

You will not replace the player Utoikamanu is with what is available. But you can get a big guy, a harder runner or a defensive demon as a combination of a couple of players for around the same value.

Canberra's reserves middles of Mooney, Saulo & Hola could be had all up for Utoikamanu money. Having watched them play- I'd hazard a guess you drop in talent but get as much statistical return from these guys.

The issue with losing Utoikamanu is his individual impact on the field. He draws defenders. He's strong. The remaining middles would need to either up their game (Klemmer/Twal/Matamua) or an additional impactful player added to the game day roster (Jordan Miller seems most likely).

I like Utoikamanu. But realistically, so long as the right recruits are brought in, adding Luai is much more of an upgrade than losing Utoikamanu.

Would be much easier to stomach if Fa'agutu was more ready to step in!
 
stephen said:
I think " huge" is overstating his efforts, Bags. We know what he's capable of because he gives us a little glimpse now & then. Just doesn't produce consistently for some reason. He'll go OK at a top team where he can be carried.
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The reality is most front rowers toil hard and churn out good metres and make their tackles but largely go unnoticed. A select bunch (JFH / Haas types) are capable of more than that (and Stef is one of those ones as evidenced by an 800k offer and interest from Wayne and Belly ache). It just goes largely unnoticed in our side because the team rarely take advantage of his better moments. He was absolutely running over people last weekend. Put him behind the Sharks back 5 for example and watch the carnage that ensues as he takes the third charge with wind in his sails.

I’d love him to stay but can certainly understand why he’d leave.
 
Bones said:
He might not have signed elsewhere yet, but it does sound like he's made his mind up to move on.

I'm not terribly disappointed. At $800k that's way over what he's worth and he obviously doesn't have the fighting mentality we need. Just another who wants to be carried.
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I won’t be terribly disappointed if he moves on either, he clearly wants to go. However, moving experienced forwards on without any suitable replacements in the wings is a tad worrying. Apart from the Turuva signing (a winger) early this year, all we’ve done is move players on.
 
Flippedy said:
I won’t be terribly disappointed if he moves on either, he clearly wants to go. However, moving experienced forwards on without any suitable replacements in the wings is a tad worrying. Apart from the Turuva signing (a winger) early this year, all we’ve done is move players on.
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Chance for Richo & BQM to show their worth.
 
The Chad said:
If he is gone, as it sounds in that report, then take a serious Moneyball approach.

You will not replace the player Utoikamanu is with what is available. But you can get a big guy, a harder runner or a defensive demon as a combination of a couple of players for around the same value.

Canberra's reserves middles of Mooney, Saulo & Hola could be had all up for Utoikamanu money. Having watched them play- I'd hazard a guess you drop in talent but get as much statistical return from these guys.

The issue with losing Utoikamanu is his individual impact on the field. He draws defenders. He's strong. The remaining middles would need to either up their game (Klemmer/Twal/Matamua) or an additional impactful player added to the game day roster (Jordan Miller seems most likely).

I like Utoikamanu. But realistically, so long as the right recruits are brought in, adding Luai is much more of an upgrade than losing Utoikamanu.

Would be much easier to stomach if Fa'agutu was more ready to step in!
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Have a feeling Richo knew the writing was on the wall with Stef and his England trip was about finding some hard arse forwards to lay a platform for Luai & co.
 
BAGNF05 said:
Nothing will be announced until this year is done for the recruits.
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I hope you’re right Bags, but I’m not holding my breath. If Richo thinks English players are the answer, it’s a big risk, imo. I’d rather some NRL hardened forwards, but that’s wishful thinking, I know.
 
TigerVinnie said:
I get the point and I wish we were a club attractive enough to be able to do this to players - but the reality is, we lose a quality (all be inconsistent player) and we replace him with someone like Klemmer....

It's all fine to cull players but we need to be replacing them with better - so far we have not.
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I’d be going to the market now looking for someone else and telling him good bye and good luck. We’re not waiting for you. Club in the cellar, new recruits coming, club undergoing change. Great team to be a part of. As someone mentioned earlier, Pole runs heaps harder than Stefano.

The one I wanted and everyone shot me down was Nathan Brown. The guy now has a two year extension. Really could have used him off the bench.
 
To be fair though- Klemmer, Twal, Pole, Seyfarth, Sione Fainu, Jordan Miller & Matamua isn't a bad starting point for our middle rotation.

Twal is criminally underrated in his performances & other than physical dominance & offloads- matches Utoikamanu on the field.

Klemmer gets critisised for his slow play of the ball, but everything else he does is class.

And Pole is just coming up to his 50th game & so far this season...hasn't started at prop. Will be interesting to see how he goes today.

Offloading ability (which I'm pretty sure Klemmer is good at but has little support- and Seyfarth is actually quite good at) & that physical presence will be lost. This is where Miller can step in.

One thing that needs to be acknowledged with all our middles- they are a very strong defensive unit- all averaging early 90% tackle efficiency.

Maybe the Utoikamanu money should be spread out onto the edges where our wingers are the opposite in defensive abilities....
 
The Chad said:
To be fair though- Klemmer, Twal, Pole, Seyfarth, Sione Fainu, Jordan Miller & Matamua isn't a bad starting point for our middle rotation.

Twal is criminally underrated in his performances & other than physical dominance & offloads- matches Utoikamanu on the field.

Klemmer gets critisised for his slow play of the ball, but everything else he does is class.

And Pole is just coming up to his 50th game & so far this season...hasn't started at prop. Will be interesting to see how he goes today.

Offloading ability (which I'm pretty sure Klemmer is good at but has little support- and Seyfarth is actually quite good at) & that physical presence will be lost. This is where Miller can step in.

One thing that needs to be acknowledged with all our middles- they are a very strong defensive unit- all averaging early 90% tackle efficiency.

Maybe the Utoikamanu money should be spread out onto the edges where our wingers are the opposite in defensive abilities....
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If we’re running with those middles we are bottom four next year.
 
He consciously or subconsciously dropped off in form around origin selection time, with that ridiculous clause in his contract its too much if a coincidence for mine. Was giving him the benefit of the doubt but after reading those quotes I'm pretty gutted. If he doesn't drop off 30% over that few weeks we were certainly close enough in a couple to not be last.
 
old_man_tiger said:
He consciously or subconsciously dropped off in form around origin selection time, with that ridiculous clause in his contract its too much if a coincidence for mine. Was giving him the benefit of the doubt but after reading those quotes I'm pretty gutted. If he doesn't drop off 30% over that few weeks we were certainly close enough in a couple to not be last.
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If Stef was bad during that month exactly what were Naden & Staines? 18 man game and until our squad is more reliable we’ll lose the winners.
 
BAGNF05 said:
If we’re running with those middles we are bottom four next year.
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We already are.

As has been discussed previously, our back 3 do nothing to help our middles at all.

Using Utoikamanu money to build up our winger stock & have a better return out of our first couple of hit-ups per set does change the look of how a team plays.

I'd disagree that those middles are as bad as you are suggesting. Looking at a team like the Dolphins, for example, there's not a whole lot of difference to what they offer.

The Dolphins back 3, however...
 
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