2021 Tour de France

[cochise]

Can someone explain why they ride in teams? They would still all be in competition with each other...

Cycling is a professional sport that is all about maximising tv exposure. The best way to win a stage or event is to have a team ride with the purpose of getting their rider the win. So they aren't competing with each other they are all riding to the same plan. The reason cadel Evans took so long to win was he didn't have the team around him to give enough support.

 

[Cultured_Bogan]

Can someone explain why they ride in teams? They would still all be in competition with each other...

Cycling is a professional sport that is all about maximising tv exposure. The best way to win a stage or event is to have a team ride with the purpose of getting their rider the win. So they aren't competing with each other they are all riding to the same plan. The reason cadel Evans took so long to win was he didn't have the team around him to give enough support.

So in a team, only one rider is a realistic chance of winning, and the others are just there for show?

 

[cochise]

Can someone explain why they ride in teams? They would still all be in competition with each other...

Cycling is a professional sport that is all about maximising tv exposure. The best way to win a stage or event is to have a team ride with the purpose of getting their rider the win. So they aren't competing with each other they are all riding to the same plan. The reason cadel Evans took so long to win was he didn't have the team around him to give enough support.

So in a team, only one rider is a realistic chance of winning, and the others are just there for show?

Depends on the goals of the team, but the entire team is riding with a common plan and goal. That goal may change day to day based on the stage.

 

[BZN]

Only Sport you can win something and never had to cross the line 1st at any stage..dumb..

A lot of Motor Sport championships it is possible to win the championship without winning a race.

Yep :+1: it's called consistency. Being up the front, maybe 2nd or third and never being back in the pack.
Motorcycle Speedway has a points system where you can come 2nd or 3rd every race and still make the Final with a chance of winning it.

 

[voice_of_reason]

So in a team, only one rider is a realistic chance of winning, and the others are just there for show?

Definitely not there for show - the domestiques are very important to anyone's chances of winning. Often a team will have specialists targeting different jerseys - GC, KOM, Young Rider etc. The final year Armstrong rode he had Contador on his team who ended up winning.

It's a bit like Formula One teams where they have multiple drivers with a lead driver who gets preferential treatment. The GC contender on a TDF team will always get protected and supported so they are best able to challenge on the money stages. If they falter they'll elevate someone else.

This is how Stuart O'Grady won the Paris-Robaix. Their main rider pulled out and he was in a position to go on and win.

Pro cycling is an incredibly strategic event.

 

[Cultured_Bogan]

So in a team, only one rider is a realistic chance of winning, and the others are just there for show?

Definitely not there for show - the domestiques are very important to anyone's chances of winning. Often a team will have specialists targeting different jerseys - GC, KOM, Young Rider etc. The final year Armstrong rode he had Contador on his team who ended up winning.

It's a bit like Formula One teams where they have multiple drivers with a lead driver who gets preferential treatment. The GC contender on a TDF team will always get protected and supported so they are best able to challenge on the money stages. If they falter they'll elevate someone else.

This is how Stuart O'Grady won the Paris-Robaix. Their main rider pulled out and he was in a position to go on and win.

Pro cycling is an incredibly strategic event.

I thought it was all based on times, basically the rider who rode the multiple stages in the shortest time won it. So you can effectively not finish first in any stage and still feasibly win it. What do your team mates have to do with that if they are gunning for particular jerseys?

 

[hobbo1]


 

[cochise]

So in a team, only one rider is a realistic chance of winning, and the others are just there for show?

Definitely not there for show - the domestiques are very important to anyone's chances of winning. Often a team will have specialists targeting different jerseys - GC, KOM, Young Rider etc. The final year Armstrong rode he had Contador on his team who ended up winning.

It's a bit like Formula One teams where they have multiple drivers with a lead driver who gets preferential treatment. The GC contender on a TDF team will always get protected and supported so they are best able to challenge on the money stages. If they falter they'll elevate someone else.

This is how Stuart O'Grady won the Paris-Robaix. Their main rider pulled out and he was in a position to go on and win.

Pro cycling is an incredibly strategic event.

I thought it was all based on times, basically the rider who rode the multiple stages in the shortest time won it. So you can effectively not finish first in any stage and still feasibly win it. What do your team mates have to do with that if they are gunning for particular jerseys?

I think the easiest way to explain that is to use the best team in history, the British team Skye racing. Their team leaders would be guys with a good engine that could ride at a consistent pace up mountains but couldn't handle the explosive change of pace that the Spanish and south American riders were capable of. To counter this the sky team would put their riders at the front and ride up the mountain at a pace that negates the explosive riders. To ride at the front is up to 20% harder due to wind resistance, they would burn through their riders until their team leader guys like Wiggins and Froome were the last ones left to ride to victory. Often these support riders were good enough to challenge for the tour themselves but sacrificed their chance to support the team leader.

 

[Cultured_Bogan]

So in a team, only one rider is a realistic chance of winning, and the others are just there for show?

Definitely not there for show - the domestiques are very important to anyone's chances of winning. Often a team will have specialists targeting different jerseys - GC, KOM, Young Rider etc. The final year Armstrong rode he had Contador on his team who ended up winning.

It's a bit like Formula One teams where they have multiple drivers with a lead driver who gets preferential treatment. The GC contender on a TDF team will always get protected and supported so they are best able to challenge on the money stages. If they falter they'll elevate someone else.

This is how Stuart O'Grady won the Paris-Robaix. Their main rider pulled out and he was in a position to go on and win.

Pro cycling is an incredibly strategic event.

I thought it was all based on times, basically the rider who rode the multiple stages in the shortest time won it. So you can effectively not finish first in any stage and still feasibly win it. What do your team mates have to do with that if they are gunning for particular jerseys?

I think the easiest way to explain that is to use the best team in history, the British team Skye racing. Their team leaders would be guys with a good engine that could ride at a consistent pace up mountains but couldn't handle the explosive change of pace that the Spanish and south American riders were capable of. To counter this the sky team would put their riders at the front and ride up the mountain at a pace that negates the explosive riders. To ride at the front is up to 20% harder due to wind resistance, they would burn through their riders until their team leader guys like Wiggins and Froome were the last ones left to ride to victory. Often these support riders were good enough to challenge for the tour themselves but sacrificed their chance to support the team leader.

So they are effectively fodder to help the best overall chance in the team take the gong?

 

[jadtiger]


Very apt

 

[cochise]

So in a team, only one rider is a realistic chance of winning, and the others are just there for show?

Definitely not there for show - the domestiques are very important to anyone's chances of winning. Often a team will have specialists targeting different jerseys - GC, KOM, Young Rider etc. The final year Armstrong rode he had Contador on his team who ended up winning.

It's a bit like Formula One teams where they have multiple drivers with a lead driver who gets preferential treatment. The GC contender on a TDF team will always get protected and supported so they are best able to challenge on the money stages. If they falter they'll elevate someone else.

This is how Stuart O'Grady won the Paris-Robaix. Their main rider pulled out and he was in a position to go on and win.

Pro cycling is an incredibly strategic event.

I thought it was all based on times, basically the rider who rode the multiple stages in the shortest time won it. So you can effectively not finish first in any stage and still feasibly win it. What do your team mates have to do with that if they are gunning for particular jerseys?

I think the easiest way to explain that is to use the best team in history, the British team Skye racing. Their team leaders would be guys with a good engine that could ride at a consistent pace up mountains but couldn't handle the explosive change of pace that the Spanish and south American riders were capable of. To counter this the sky team would put their riders at the front and ride up the mountain at a pace that negates the explosive riders. To ride at the front is up to 20% harder due to wind resistance, they would burn through their riders until their team leader guys like Wiggins and Froome were the last ones left to ride to victory. Often these support riders were good enough to challenge for the tour themselves but sacrificed their chance to support the team leader.

So they are effectively fodder to help the best overall chance in the team take the gong?

Yes, happens with sprint stages as well with team mates used to lead out the sprinters.

Interesting thing it still happens in the Olympics road race and world championship when riders are riding for their country and there is only one winner.

 

[Geo]

So in a team, only one rider is a realistic chance of winning, and the others are just there for show?

Definitely not there for show - the domestiques are very important to anyone's chances of winning. Often a team will have specialists targeting different jerseys - GC, KOM, Young Rider etc. The final year Armstrong rode he had Contador on his team who ended up winning.

It's a bit like Formula One teams where they have multiple drivers with a lead driver who gets preferential treatment. The GC contender on a TDF team will always get protected and supported so they are best able to challenge on the money stages. If they falter they'll elevate someone else.

This is how Stuart O'Grady won the Paris-Robaix. Their main rider pulled out and he was in a position to go on and win.

Pro cycling is an incredibly strategic event.

I thought it was all based on times, basically the rider who rode the multiple stages in the shortest time won it. So you can effectively not finish first in any stage and still feasibly win it. What do your team mates have to do with that if they are gunning for particular jerseys?

I think the easiest way to explain that is to use the best team in history, the British team Skye racing. Their team leaders would be guys with a good engine that could ride at a consistent pace up mountains but couldn't handle the explosive change of pace that the Spanish and south American riders were capable of. To counter this the sky team would put their riders at the front and ride up the mountain at a pace that negates the explosive riders. To ride at the front is up to 20% harder due to wind resistance, they would burn through their riders until their team leader guys like Wiggins and Froome were the last ones left to ride to victory. Often these support riders were good enough to challenge for the tour themselves but sacrificed their chance to support the team leader.

So they are effectively fodder to help the best overall chance in the team take the gong?

Yes, happens with sprint stages as well with team mates used to lead out the sprinters.

Interesting thing it still happens in the Olympics road race and world championship when riders are riding for their country and there is only one winner.

Yes..but that Gold medal winner crosses the line 1st..not in the mass of the peloton

 

[cochise]

So in a team, only one rider is a realistic chance of winning, and the others are just there for show?

Definitely not there for show - the domestiques are very important to anyone's chances of winning. Often a team will have specialists targeting different jerseys - GC, KOM, Young Rider etc. The final year Armstrong rode he had Contador on his team who ended up winning.

It's a bit like Formula One teams where they have multiple drivers with a lead driver who gets preferential treatment. The GC contender on a TDF team will always get protected and supported so they are best able to challenge on the money stages. If they falter they'll elevate someone else.

This is how Stuart O'Grady won the Paris-Robaix. Their main rider pulled out and he was in a position to go on and win.

Pro cycling is an incredibly strategic event.

I thought it was all based on times, basically the rider who rode the multiple stages in the shortest time won it. So you can effectively not finish first in any stage and still feasibly win it. What do your team mates have to do with that if they are gunning for particular jerseys?

I think the easiest way to explain that is to use the best team in history, the British team Skye racing. Their team leaders would be guys with a good engine that could ride at a consistent pace up mountains but couldn't handle the explosive change of pace that the Spanish and south American riders were capable of. To counter this the sky team would put their riders at the front and ride up the mountain at a pace that negates the explosive riders. To ride at the front is up to 20% harder due to wind resistance, they would burn through their riders until their team leader guys like Wiggins and Froome were the last ones left to ride to victory. Often these support riders were good enough to challenge for the tour themselves but sacrificed their chance to support the team leader.

So they are effectively fodder to help the best overall chance in the team take the gong?

Yes, happens with sprint stages as well with team mates used to lead out the sprinters.

Interesting thing it still happens in the Olympics road race and world championship when riders are riding for their country and there is only one winner.

Yes..but that Gold medal winner crosses the line 1st..not in the mass of the peloton

Yes but he is put there by his team mates who may not even finish the race.

 

[voice_of_reason]

I thought it was all based on times, basically the rider who rode the multiple stages in the shortest time won it. So you can effectively not finish first in any stage and still feasibly win it. What do your team mates have to do with that if they are gunning for particular jerseys?

That's right, as with any multi day event it will be cumulative time. Not all teams will target all jerseys but if you have a good hill rider you'll likely want to help him get KOM.

Sprinters are there for team glory in the early stages and many of them either won't finish the mountain stages or will drop to the rear of the field as they can't hold pace.

Robbie McEwen won many stages and sprint titles of the tour but would never have been considered a GC contender because he wasn't strong on hills. When the sprints were done he'd help by pulling turns for the team to take load off the teams GC contender.

Domestiques are there to assist team leaders. They shield them from the wind, protect against attacks and generally keep them out of trouble all while reducing their fatigue. You get a flat they'll drop back to make sure you get a draft back to the peleton. Break your bike and they'll hand you theirs.

The clearest example of teams working are the last 2 or 3k of a sprint stage where the team riders form a train and peel off to give their sprinter a clean shot at the sprint.

It sounds odd they don't need to win a stage to win the tour but they eventually cover the total distance faster than anyone else. It's not too different to multi day car rallies, long distance yacht races and ultra marathons.

 

[cochise]

I thought it was all based on times, basically the rider who rode the multiple stages in the shortest time won it. So you can effectively not finish first in any stage and still feasibly win it. What do your team mates have to do with that if they are gunning for particular jerseys?

That's right, as with any multi day event it will be cumulative time. Not all teams will target all jerseys but if you have a good hill rider you'll likely want to help him get KOM.

Sprinters are there for team glory in the early stages and many of them either won't finish the mountain stages or will drop to the rear of the field as they can't hold pace.

Robbie McEwen won many stages and sprint titles of the tour but would never have been considered a GC contender because he wasn't strong on hills. When the sprints were done he'd help by pulling turns for the team to take load off the teams GC contender.

Domestiques are there to assist team leaders. They shield them from the wind, protect against attacks and generally keep them out of trouble all while reducing their fatigue. You get a flat they'll drop back to make sure you get a draft back to the peleton. Break your bike and they'll hand you theirs.

The clearest example of teams working are the last 2 or 3k of a sprint stage where the team riders form a train and peel off to give their sprinter a clean shot at the sprint.

It sounds odd they don't need to win a stage to win the tour but they eventually cover the total distance faster than anyone else. It's not too different to multi day car rallies, long distance yacht races and ultra marathons.

And no one can win the tour just by sitting in the peleton, on a mountain stage there really isn't a peleton by the end of the stage as all but the best climbers are unable to keep up.

 

[voice_of_reason]

And no one can win the tour just by sitting in the peleton, on a mountain stage there really isn't a peleton by the end of the stage as all but the best climbers are unable to keep up.

True - the mountains is where the large time gaps are won and lost.

 

[Mighty_Tiger]

So in a team, only one rider is a realistic chance of winning, and the others are just there for show?

Definitely not there for show - the domestiques are very important to anyone's chances of winning. Often a team will have specialists targeting different jerseys - GC, KOM, Young Rider etc. The final year Armstrong rode he had Contador on his team who ended up winning.

It's a bit like Formula One teams where they have multiple drivers with a lead driver who gets preferential treatment. The GC contender on a TDF team will always get protected and supported so they are best able to challenge on the money stages. If they falter they'll elevate someone else.

This is how Stuart O'Grady won the Paris-Robaix. Their main rider pulled out and he was in a position to go on and win.

Pro cycling is an incredibly strategic event.

I thought it was all based on times, basically the rider who rode the multiple stages in the shortest time won it. So you can effectively not finish first in any stage and still feasibly win it. What do your team mates have to do with that if they are gunning for particular jerseys?

I think the easiest way to explain that is to use the best team in history, the British team Skye racing. Their team leaders would be guys with a good engine that could ride at a consistent pace up mountains but couldn't handle the explosive change of pace that the Spanish and south American riders were capable of. To counter this the sky team would put their riders at the front and ride up the mountain at a pace that negates the explosive riders. To ride at the front is up to 20% harder due to wind resistance, they would burn through their riders until their team leader guys like Wiggins and Froome were the last ones left to ride to victory. Often these support riders were good enough to challenge for the tour themselves but sacrificed their chance to support the team leader.

So they are effectively fodder to help the best overall chance in the team take the gong?

Yes, happens with sprint stages as well with team mates used to lead out the sprinters.

Interesting thing it still happens in the Olympics road race and world championship when riders are riding for their country and there is only one winner.

Yes..but that Gold medal winner crosses the line 1st..not in the mass of the peloton

Sure but the gold medal winner only races that day.

 

[cochise]

And no one can win the tour just by sitting in the peleton, on a mountain stage there really isn't a peleton by the end of the stage as all but the best climbers are unable to keep up.

True - the mountains is where the large time gaps are won and lost.

Or on a cross wind stage, or time trial but without being able to climb you are unable to win. i love years that they throw in a cobblestone stage as it really adds to the variety of the event. I think they should include a cobblestone stage or even a gravel finish every year. I remember when Cadel won the gravel stage at the 2010 Giro in the rain, one of my favourite stages ever.

 

[voice_of_reason]

I think they should include a cobblestone stage or even a gravel finish every year. I remember when Cadel won the gravel stage at the 2010 Giro in the rain, one of my favourite stages ever.

There's an excellent doco from 2007 when O'Grady won Paris-Roubaix; Hell of the North - it's one of my favourite cycling docos. I don't know how they survive the cobblestones through the Forest.

 

[cochise]

I think they should include a cobblestone stage or even a gravel finish every year. I remember when Cadel won the gravel stage at the 2010 Giro in the rain, one of my favourite stages ever.

There's an excellent doco from 2007 when O'Grady won Paris-Roubaix; Hell of the North - it's one of my favourite cycling docos. I don't know how they survive the cobblestones through the Forest.

Yeah mate, I have that on DVD, I also have his autobiography but he lost a bit of lustre for me with the doping so sadly don't look at him with the admiration I once did.