Coronavirus Outbreak

[Deleted member 3518]

Someone mentioned Vitamin B ...where has anyone in all of this been told we can't exercise .....or even sunbathe in your back yard

People don’t have backyards mate . And many are listening to the media , agenda driven panic merchants , who just want to drive hysteria for the clicks .
So many people , especially woman , who IMO have an already in built , genetic flight response , just are hiding inside .
To dismiss this , is naive at best. Many people are too scared to go outside at all , which like you said is over reacting , but it’s still happening.
Until the general consensus is lift the restrictions , these types , which due to some mental health issues in my family recently , Im starting to be more aware of , are really at risk.
And as the majority of our nation live in cities , and the general isolation , people tend to feel in the biggest cities , this is a huge issue.
Domestic violence , alchohol use , online gambling , are through the roof. This isn’t good , as a potential on going social issue post COVID.

I agree, there are many bad things as a result of restrictions, but the alternatives are worse and today being ANZAC day, it reminds us of who is most likely to be affected by this. Both by solitude for recent service personnel and if we don't continue social distancing on a suitable scale as things improve, those that served in Vietnam, Korea etcetera and the children that grew up in the second world war, along with the few remaining survivors of that conflict, it often means direct death.

I am surrounded with the mental health issues you alluded to at home and helping out my very affected sister daily, so I completely understand your concerns, but I am not willing to sacrifice my parents, along with their generation and similar others for the sake of more freedoms.

Mate , I’m 1 of those people . 3 people I served with topped themselves in the last 3 months.
And there’s are at least another 2 , we are really concerned about , as they won’t answer calls and no one knows exactly where they live , since this kicked off.
There were over 3000 deaths in 2019 from suicide , just knowing from the conversations I’ve had , we all just want support and feel like there’s none out there. VVCS is a joke , and the waiting list now is like 6 months just to get a call back.
I didn’t want to talk about this directly , but I am so concerned about days like today , hence my posting today. And that’s just returned serviceman.
There’s so many vulnerable people , out there who can’t just “go sit on their balcony”
The cure can’t be worse than the cause.

Yes the cure can be worse than cause, but what is our alternative at the moment? We can't go with business as usual, I agree that this is extremely tough on people with mental illness and my heart goes out to them. I just don't know what the alternative is!

Not for them , covid doesn’t target young , fit , men. So there’s minimal risk to them . The cure increases their risk . This is my point . Suicide at the moment in Australia is infinitely worse

So you are only concerned about the young and fit? Not trying to be smart, just don't understand your post.

No,I’ll dot point it ;
- older and weak immune systems = extremely high chance of real issues if contracting covid. By and large not a high demographic for mental health issues outside of degenerative ones like schizophrenia and Alzheimer’s . Relatively medium death rate overseas ( this is the issue with covid-19 as its not as bad as other strains like sars , but still pretty bad , and the spread is much easier than SARS type level virus’)

-18-44 year olds suffering from mental illness=low risk of real issues form covid -19. Extremely high risk of suicide and self harm from continuous isolation . Extremely high death rate per annum every year , especially young men . 3000 took their own life in 2019.


That’s my point . Your biting off your hand to spite your foot .
covid directly affects people mothers and fathers , so they sit with them in the hospital and it becomes extremely personal . Even though by and large , in Australian society it’s impact is limited . Even before the lock downs .
Where as the person sitting alone in their home , seems fine , but is slowly losing their grip with reality , and is an actual epidemic in australia . They don’t call it the silent killer for nothing.

 

[Deleted member 3518]

Someone mentioned Vitamin B ...where has anyone in all of this been told we can't exercise .....or even sunbathe in your back yard

People don’t have backyards mate . And many are listening to the media , agenda driven panic merchants , who just want to drive hysteria for the clicks .
So many people , especially woman , who IMO have an already in built , genetic flight response , just are hiding inside .
To dismiss this , is naive at best. Many people are too scared to go outside at all , which like you said is over reacting , but it’s still happening.
Until the general consensus is lift the restrictions , these types , which due to some mental health issues in my family recently , Im starting to be more aware of , are really at risk.
And as the majority of our nation live in cities , and the general isolation , people tend to feel in the biggest cities , this is a huge issue.
Domestic violence , alchohol use , online gambling , are through the roof. This isn’t good , as a potential on going social issue post COVID.

I agree, there are many bad things as a result of restrictions, but the alternatives are worse and today being ANZAC day, it reminds us of who is most likely to be affected by this. Both by solitude for recent service personnel and if we don't continue social distancing on a suitable scale as things improve, those that served in Vietnam, Korea etcetera and the children that grew up in the second world war, along with the few remaining survivors of that conflict, it often means direct death.

I am surrounded with the mental health issues you alluded to at home and helping out my very affected sister daily, so I completely understand your concerns, but I am not willing to sacrifice my parents, along with their generation and similar others for the sake of more freedoms.

Mate , I’m 1 of those people . 3 people I served with topped themselves in the last 3 months.
And there’s are at least another 2 , we are really concerned about , as they won’t answer calls and no one knows exactly where they live , since this kicked off.
There were over 3000 deaths in 2019 from suicide , just knowing from the conversations I’ve had , we all just want support and feel like there’s none out there. VVCS is a joke , and the waiting list now is like 6 months just to get a call back.
I didn’t want to talk about this directly , but I am so concerned about days like today , hence my posting today. And that’s just returned serviceman.
There’s so many vulnerable people , out there who can’t just “go sit on their balcony”
The cure can’t be worse than the cause.

I am sorry to learn of your situation. The transition from service life is difficult enough without having to deal with mental health issues. Anyway it is good to have you posting on the forum.

Another death in Tasmania. Thanks Ruby Princess.

Mate I’m fine , but thanks for your concern. Most AJs who return have a really tough time assimilating with regular society , and this can cause huge issues. Sure it can be the things you saw and did , but for many that’s not even the issue. From what I know , it’s the general attitude of regular people , their lack of a certain moral code , and the biggest one , a lack of purpose and belief in what your doing .
So this time of year may seem like a celebration of war for some , but for many , it’s a time of reflection and assessment . Which isn’t always positive .
That’s all I’m saying, speaking in absolutes , and grandstanding to me , just makes people look stupid , no matter how intelligent or in point the subject matter they’re saying .

 

[cochise]

Someone mentioned Vitamin B ...where has anyone in all of this been told we can't exercise .....or even sunbathe in your back yard

People don’t have backyards mate . And many are listening to the media , agenda driven panic merchants , who just want to drive hysteria for the clicks .
So many people , especially woman , who IMO have an already in built , genetic flight response , just are hiding inside .
To dismiss this , is naive at best. Many people are too scared to go outside at all , which like you said is over reacting , but it’s still happening.
Until the general consensus is lift the restrictions , these types , which due to some mental health issues in my family recently , Im starting to be more aware of , are really at risk.
And as the majority of our nation live in cities , and the general isolation , people tend to feel in the biggest cities , this is a huge issue.
Domestic violence , alchohol use , online gambling , are through the roof. This isn’t good , as a potential on going social issue post COVID.

I agree, there are many bad things as a result of restrictions, but the alternatives are worse and today being ANZAC day, it reminds us of who is most likely to be affected by this. Both by solitude for recent service personnel and if we don't continue social distancing on a suitable scale as things improve, those that served in Vietnam, Korea etcetera and the children that grew up in the second world war, along with the few remaining survivors of that conflict, it often means direct death.

I am surrounded with the mental health issues you alluded to at home and helping out my very affected sister daily, so I completely understand your concerns, but I am not willing to sacrifice my parents, along with their generation and similar others for the sake of more freedoms.

Mate , I’m 1 of those people . 3 people I served with topped themselves in the last 3 months.
And there’s are at least another 2 , we are really concerned about , as they won’t answer calls and no one knows exactly where they live , since this kicked off.
There were over 3000 deaths in 2019 from suicide , just knowing from the conversations I’ve had , we all just want support and feel like there’s none out there. VVCS is a joke , and the waiting list now is like 6 months just to get a call back.
I didn’t want to talk about this directly , but I am so concerned about days like today , hence my posting today. And that’s just returned serviceman.
There’s so many vulnerable people , out there who can’t just “go sit on their balcony”
The cure can’t be worse than the cause.

Yes the cure can be worse than cause, but what is our alternative at the moment? We can't go with business as usual, I agree that this is extremely tough on people with mental illness and my heart goes out to them. I just don't know what the alternative is!

Not for them , covid doesn’t target young , fit , men. So there’s minimal risk to them . The cure increases their risk . This is my point . Suicide at the moment in Australia is infinitely worse

So you are only concerned about the young and fit? Not trying to be smart, just don't understand your post.

No,I’ll dot point it ;
- older and weak immune systems = extremely high chance of real issues if contracting covid. By and large not a high demographic for mental health issues outside of degenerative ones like schizophrenia and Alzheimer’s . Relatively medium death rate overseas ( this is the issue with covid-19 as its not as bad as other strains like sars , but still pretty bad , and the spread is much easier than SARS type level virus’)

-18-44 year olds suffering from mental illness=low risk of real issues form covid -19. Extremely high risk of suicide and self harm from continuous isolation . Extremely high death rate per annum every year , especially young men . 3000 took their own life in 2019.


That’s my point . Your biting off your hand to spite your foot .
covid directly affects people mothers and fathers , so they sit with them in the hospital and it becomes extremely personal . Even though by and large , in Australian society it’s impact is limited . Even before the lock downs .
Where as the person sitting alone in their home , seems fine , but is slowly losing their grip with reality , and is an actual epidemic in australia . They don’t call it the silent killer for nothing.

Mate that simple is not true, our lock downs have limited the impact of covid 19, without them we would have had 1000's of deaths due to it in a very short space of time. @Tiger5150 do you have the data of the amount of cases and deaths we would likely have seen today if the rate of spread had of continued at the rate it was before the restrictions.

Mental Health is a very real problem with this, but lifting the restrictions is not the answer. We have such low numbers due to these restrictions we have in place!

 

[pawsandclaws1]

Someone mentioned Vitamin B ...where has anyone in all of this been told we can't exercise .....or even sunbathe in your back yard

People don’t have backyards mate . And many are listening to the media , agenda driven panic merchants , who just want to drive hysteria for the clicks .
So many people , especially woman , who IMO have an already in built , genetic flight response , just are hiding inside .
To dismiss this , is naive at best. Many people are too scared to go outside at all , which like you said is over reacting , but it’s still happening.
Until the general consensus is lift the restrictions , these types , which due to some mental health issues in my family recently , Im starting to be more aware of , are really at risk.
And as the majority of our nation live in cities , and the general isolation , people tend to feel in the biggest cities , this is a huge issue.
Domestic violence , alchohol use , online gambling , are through the roof. This isn’t good , as a potential on going social issue post COVID.

I agree, there are many bad things as a result of restrictions, but the alternatives are worse and today being ANZAC day, it reminds us of who is most likely to be affected by this. Both by solitude for recent service personnel and if we don't continue social distancing on a suitable scale as things improve, those that served in Vietnam, Korea etcetera and the children that grew up in the second world war, along with the few remaining survivors of that conflict, it often means direct death.

I am surrounded with the mental health issues you alluded to at home and helping out my very affected sister daily, so I completely understand your concerns, but I am not willing to sacrifice my parents, along with their generation and similar others for the sake of more freedoms.

Mate , I’m 1 of those people . 3 people I served with topped themselves in the last 3 months.
And there’s are at least another 2 , we are really concerned about , as they won’t answer calls and no one knows exactly where they live , since this kicked off.
There were over 3000 deaths in 2019 from suicide , just knowing from the conversations I’ve had , we all just want support and feel like there’s none out there. VVCS is a joke , and the waiting list now is like 6 months just to get a call back.
I didn’t want to talk about this directly , but I am so concerned about days like today , hence my posting today. And that’s just returned serviceman.
There’s so many vulnerable people , out there who can’t just “go sit on their balcony”
The cure can’t be worse than the cause.

I am sorry to learn of your situation. The transition from service life is difficult enough without having to deal with mental health issues. Anyway it is good to have you posting on the forum.

Another death in Tasmania. Thanks Ruby Princess.

Mate I’m fine , but thanks for your concern. Most AJs who return have a really tough time assimilating with regular society , and this can cause huge issues. Sure it can be the things you saw and did , but for many that’s not even the issue. From what I know , it’s the general attitude of regular people , their lack of a certain moral code , and the biggest one , a lack of purpose and belief in what your doing .
So this time of year may seem like a celebration of war for some , but for many , it’s a time of reflection and assessment . Which isn’t always positive .
That’s all I’m saying, speaking in absolutes , and grandstanding to me , just makes people look stupid , no matter how intelligent or in point the subject matter they’re saying .

I have participated in a few Anzac Day ceremonies and always it was the quality of the veterans and their wives which impressed me. I recall as a young fellow meeting a UK vet who had lost his forearms and was blind due to being used by Japs for mine clearing. He. wrote a book titled Blinded But Unbeaten (if my memory is correct) which typifies his spirit which is what it is about imo.

 

[cochise]

Someone mentioned Vitamin B ...where has anyone in all of this been told we can't exercise .....or even sunbathe in your back yard

People don’t have backyards mate . And many are listening to the media , agenda driven panic merchants , who just want to drive hysteria for the clicks .
So many people , especially woman , who IMO have an already in built , genetic flight response , just are hiding inside .
To dismiss this , is naive at best. Many people are too scared to go outside at all , which like you said is over reacting , but it’s still happening.
Until the general consensus is lift the restrictions , these types , which due to some mental health issues in my family recently , Im starting to be more aware of , are really at risk.
And as the majority of our nation live in cities , and the general isolation , people tend to feel in the biggest cities , this is a huge issue.
Domestic violence , alchohol use , online gambling , are through the roof. This isn’t good , as a potential on going social issue post COVID.

I agree, there are many bad things as a result of restrictions, but the alternatives are worse and today being ANZAC day, it reminds us of who is most likely to be affected by this. Both by solitude for recent service personnel and if we don't continue social distancing on a suitable scale as things improve, those that served in Vietnam, Korea etcetera and the children that grew up in the second world war, along with the few remaining survivors of that conflict, it often means direct death.

I am surrounded with the mental health issues you alluded to at home and helping out my very affected sister daily, so I completely understand your concerns, but I am not willing to sacrifice my parents, along with their generation and similar others for the sake of more freedoms.

Mate , I’m 1 of those people . 3 people I served with topped themselves in the last 3 months.
And there’s are at least another 2 , we are really concerned about , as they won’t answer calls and no one knows exactly where they live , since this kicked off.
There were over 3000 deaths in 2019 from suicide , just knowing from the conversations I’ve had , we all just want support and feel like there’s none out there. VVCS is a joke , and the waiting list now is like 6 months just to get a call back.
I didn’t want to talk about this directly , but I am so concerned about days like today , hence my posting today. And that’s just returned serviceman.
There’s so many vulnerable people , out there who can’t just “go sit on their balcony”
The cure can’t be worse than the cause.

I am sorry to learn of your situation. The transition from service life is difficult enough without having to deal with mental health issues. Anyway it is good to have you posting on the forum.

Another death in Tasmania. Thanks Ruby Princess.

Mate I’m fine , but thanks for your concern. Most AJs who return have a really tough time assimilating with regular society , and this can cause huge issues. Sure it can be the things you saw and did , but for many that’s not even the issue. From what I know , it’s the general attitude of regular people , their lack of a certain moral code , and the biggest one , a lack of purpose and belief in what your doing .
So this time of year may seem like a celebration of war for some , but for many , it’s a time of reflection and assessment . Which isn’t always positive .
That’s all I’m saying, speaking in absolutes , and grandstanding to me , just makes people look stupid , no matter how intelligent or in point the subject matter they’re saying .

What moral code are regular people lacking?

 

[Tiger5150]

We have a healthcare worker in another aged care facility having tested positive to Coronavirus. A continuation of the failure of Commonwealth and aged care providers to have strict preventative measures in place. A review of employment conditions and pay may also assist so workers can afford to ill and voluntarily stay away.


How do you know this to be true? How do you know that this has not happened despite Commonwealth Gov & Aged Care Providers preventative measures? Which measures were compromised?

Every night all of the workers go home. It is entirely possible the HCW was completely asymptomatic.

It is happening too frequently. This is the third facility in NSW. We've had 10 deaths. More to come at Newmarch. I could understand a hospital where staff put themselves at risk every day. But at an aged care facility where our most vulnerable are supposedly safely housed? The Royal Commission into aged care was required for a reason. Commonwealth with aged care and Ruby Princess really are the benchmark.

OK, so I agree with you that aged care facilities are the highest risk areas and must be protected as a highest priority.....but exactly which protocol installed by Commonwealth, state or facility was broken or was inadequate? How do you know? What protocols are inadequate and what would you do to strengthen them?

Other than have all of the support staffa ctually move into the facility, I dont see how you completely fail safe the system. For all we know a staff member could have stopped at Woolies on the way home, caught the virus and gone to work completely asymptomatic.

There are just under 1100 Aged Care Homes in NSW, the virus has impacted 3 of them.

 

[Tiger5150]

Someone mentioned Vitamin B ...where has anyone in all of this been told we can't exercise .....or even sunbathe in your back yard

People don’t have backyards mate . And many are listening to the media , agenda driven panic merchants , who just want to drive hysteria for the clicks .
So many people , especially woman , who IMO have an already in built , genetic flight response , just are hiding inside .
To dismiss this , is naive at best. Many people are too scared to go outside at all , which like you said is over reacting , but it’s still happening.
Until the general consensus is lift the restrictions , these types , which due to some mental health issues in my family recently , Im starting to be more aware of , are really at risk.
And as the majority of our nation live in cities , and the general isolation , people tend to feel in the biggest cities , this is a huge issue.
Domestic violence , alchohol use , online gambling , are through the roof. This isn’t good , as a potential on going social issue post COVID.

I agree, there are many bad things as a result of restrictions, but the alternatives are worse and today being ANZAC day, it reminds us of who is most likely to be affected by this. Both by solitude for recent service personnel and if we don't continue social distancing on a suitable scale as things improve, those that served in Vietnam, Korea etcetera and the children that grew up in the second world war, along with the few remaining survivors of that conflict, it often means direct death.

I am surrounded with the mental health issues you alluded to at home and helping out my very affected sister daily, so I completely understand your concerns, but I am not willing to sacrifice my parents, along with their generation and similar others for the sake of more freedoms.

Mate , I’m 1 of those people . 3 people I served with topped themselves in the last 3 months.
And there’s are at least another 2 , we are really concerned about , as they won’t answer calls and no one knows exactly where they live , since this kicked off.
There were over 3000 deaths in 2019 from suicide , just knowing from the conversations I’ve had , we all just want support and feel like there’s none out there. VVCS is a joke , and the waiting list now is like 6 months just to get a call back.
I didn’t want to talk about this directly , but I am so concerned about days like today , hence my posting today. And that’s just returned serviceman.
There’s so many vulnerable people , out there who can’t just “go sit on their balcony”
The cure can’t be worse than the cause.

Yes the cure can be worse than cause, but what is our alternative at the moment? We can't go with business as usual, I agree that this is extremely tough on people with mental illness and my heart goes out to them. I just don't know what the alternative is!

Not for them , covid doesn’t target young , fit , men. So there’s minimal risk to them . The cure increases their risk . This is my point . Suicide at the moment in Australia is infinitely worse

So you are only concerned about the young and fit? Not trying to be smart, just don't understand your post.

No,I’ll dot point it ;
- older and weak immune systems = extremely high chance of real issues if contracting covid. By and large not a high demographic for mental health issues outside of degenerative ones like schizophrenia and Alzheimer’s . Relatively medium death rate overseas ( this is the issue with covid-19 as its not as bad as other strains like sars , but still pretty bad , and the spread is much easier than SARS type level virus’)

-18-44 year olds suffering from mental illness=low risk of real issues form covid -19. Extremely high risk of suicide and self harm from continuous isolation . Extremely high death rate per annum every year , especially young men . 3000 took their own life in 2019.


That’s my point . Your biting off your hand to spite your foot .
covid directly affects people mothers and fathers , so they sit with them in the hospital and it becomes extremely personal . Even though by and large , in Australian society it’s impact is limited . Even before the lock downs .
Where as the person sitting alone in their home , seems fine , but is slowly losing their grip with reality , and is an actual epidemic in australia . They don’t call it the silent killer for nothing.

Mate that simple is not true, our lock downs have limited the impact of covid 19, without them we would have had 1000's of deaths due to it in a very short space of time. @Tiger5150 do you have the data of the amount of cases and deaths we would likely have seen today if the rate of spread had of continued at the rate it was before the restrictions.

Mental Health is a very real problem with this, but lifting the restrictions is not the answer. We have such low numbers due to these restrictions we have in place!

If we had continued at the same rate as we were at at 24/03/20, we would have 1.9M cases today with over 200,000 dead.

 

[pawsandclaws1]

Someone mentioned Vitamin B ...where has anyone in all of this been told we can't exercise .....or even sunbathe in your back yard

People don’t have backyards mate . And many are listening to the media , agenda driven panic merchants , who just want to drive hysteria for the clicks .
So many people , especially woman , who IMO have an already in built , genetic flight response , just are hiding inside .
To dismiss this , is naive at best. Many people are too scared to go outside at all , which like you said is over reacting , but it’s still happening.
Until the general consensus is lift the restrictions , these types , which due to some mental health issues in my family recently , Im starting to be more aware of , are really at risk.
And as the majority of our nation live in cities , and the general isolation , people tend to feel in the biggest cities , this is a huge issue.
Domestic violence , alchohol use , online gambling , are through the roof. This isn’t good , as a potential on going social issue post COVID.

I agree, there are many bad things as a result of restrictions, but the alternatives are worse and today being ANZAC day, it reminds us of who is most likely to be affected by this. Both by solitude for recent service personnel and if we don't continue social distancing on a suitable scale as things improve, those that served in Vietnam, Korea etcetera and the children that grew up in the second world war, along with the few remaining survivors of that conflict, it often means direct death.

I am surrounded with the mental health issues you alluded to at home and helping out my very affected sister daily, so I completely understand your concerns, but I am not willing to sacrifice my parents, along with their generation and similar others for the sake of more freedoms.

Mate , I’m 1 of those people . 3 people I served with topped themselves in the last 3 months.
And there’s are at least another 2 , we are really concerned about , as they won’t answer calls and no one knows exactly where they live , since this kicked off.
There were over 3000 deaths in 2019 from suicide , just knowing from the conversations I’ve had , we all just want support and feel like there’s none out there. VVCS is a joke , and the waiting list now is like 6 months just to get a call back.
I didn’t want to talk about this directly , but I am so concerned about days like today , hence my posting today. And that’s just returned serviceman.
There’s so many vulnerable people , out there who can’t just “go sit on their balcony”
The cure can’t be worse than the cause.

I am sorry to learn of your situation. The transition from service life is difficult enough without having to deal with mental health issues. Anyway it is good to have you posting on the forum.

Another death in Tasmania. Thanks Ruby Princess.

Mate I’m fine , but thanks for your concern. Most AJs who return have a really tough time assimilating with regular society , and this can cause huge issues. Sure it can be the things you saw and did , but for many that’s not even the issue. From what I know , it’s the general attitude of regular people , their lack of a certain moral code , and the biggest one , a lack of purpose and belief in what your doing .
So this time of year may seem like a celebration of war for some , but for many , it’s a time of reflection and assessment . Which isn’t always positive .
That’s all I’m saying, speaking in absolutes , and grandstanding to me , just makes people look stupid , no matter how intelligent or in point the subject matter they’re saying .

What moral code are regular people lacking?

I will give you an example of difficulty I have with the code of behaviour
which is not the norm in the military.

The first day on the Track walking from Kokoda to Ower's Corner (north to south), is one of the toughest. It is 8 to 10 hours up hill mostly in full sun. It takes a lot out of you and you need to pace yourself. This young man took off and made it okay to Isurava village but the following day he was second from the rear and clearly staggering. I was last in column and stayed with him as he stopped, said he couldn't go on, vomited and shat his pants. His so-called mates pissed off and raced ahead leaving him alone in the New Guinea Jungle with a virtual stranger. They ended up being 4 hours ahead.

I did what any mate would do for a mate and got him to wash his shorts (bio degradable soap away from the water source), sit, drink staminade, gave him a pep talk and got him going. He powered home to complete the Track.

His mates failed to realise we were walking on sacred ground where mateship allowed men to survive and die with a mate around. Their. actions were foreign to me and the spirit of what the ANZAC code is all about.

 

[cochise]

Someone mentioned Vitamin B ...where has anyone in all of this been told we can't exercise .....or even sunbathe in your back yard

People don’t have backyards mate . And many are listening to the media , agenda driven panic merchants , who just want to drive hysteria for the clicks .
So many people , especially woman , who IMO have an already in built , genetic flight response , just are hiding inside .
To dismiss this , is naive at best. Many people are too scared to go outside at all , which like you said is over reacting , but it’s still happening.
Until the general consensus is lift the restrictions , these types , which due to some mental health issues in my family recently , Im starting to be more aware of , are really at risk.
And as the majority of our nation live in cities , and the general isolation , people tend to feel in the biggest cities , this is a huge issue.
Domestic violence , alchohol use , online gambling , are through the roof. This isn’t good , as a potential on going social issue post COVID.

I agree, there are many bad things as a result of restrictions, but the alternatives are worse and today being ANZAC day, it reminds us of who is most likely to be affected by this. Both by solitude for recent service personnel and if we don't continue social distancing on a suitable scale as things improve, those that served in Vietnam, Korea etcetera and the children that grew up in the second world war, along with the few remaining survivors of that conflict, it often means direct death.

I am surrounded with the mental health issues you alluded to at home and helping out my very affected sister daily, so I completely understand your concerns, but I am not willing to sacrifice my parents, along with their generation and similar others for the sake of more freedoms.

Mate , I’m 1 of those people . 3 people I served with topped themselves in the last 3 months.
And there’s are at least another 2 , we are really concerned about , as they won’t answer calls and no one knows exactly where they live , since this kicked off.
There were over 3000 deaths in 2019 from suicide , just knowing from the conversations I’ve had , we all just want support and feel like there’s none out there. VVCS is a joke , and the waiting list now is like 6 months just to get a call back.
I didn’t want to talk about this directly , but I am so concerned about days like today , hence my posting today. And that’s just returned serviceman.
There’s so many vulnerable people , out there who can’t just “go sit on their balcony”
The cure can’t be worse than the cause.

I am sorry to learn of your situation. The transition from service life is difficult enough without having to deal with mental health issues. Anyway it is good to have you posting on the forum.

Another death in Tasmania. Thanks Ruby Princess.

Mate I’m fine , but thanks for your concern. Most AJs who return have a really tough time assimilating with regular society , and this can cause huge issues. Sure it can be the things you saw and did , but for many that’s not even the issue. From what I know , it’s the general attitude of regular people , their lack of a certain moral code , and the biggest one , a lack of purpose and belief in what your doing .
So this time of year may seem like a celebration of war for some , but for many , it’s a time of reflection and assessment . Which isn’t always positive .
That’s all I’m saying, speaking in absolutes , and grandstanding to me , just makes people look stupid , no matter how intelligent or in point the subject matter they’re saying .

What moral code are regular people lacking?

I will give you an example of difficulty I have with the code of behaviour
which is not the norm in the military.

The first day on the Track walking from Kokoda to Ower's Corner (north to south), is one of the toughest. It is 8 to 10 hours up hill mostly in full sun. It takes a lot out of you and you need to pace yourself. This young man took off and made it okay to Isurava village but the following day he was second from the rear and clearly staggering. I was last in column and stayed with him as he stopped, said he couldn't go on, vomited and shat his pants. His so-called mates pissed off and raced ahead leaving him alone in the New Guinea Jungle with a virtual stranger. They ended up being 4 hours ahead.

I did what any mate would do for a mate and got him to wash his shorts (bio degradable soap away from the water source), sit, drink staminade, gave him a pep talk and got him going. He powered home to complete the Track.

His mates failed to realise we were walking on sacred ground where mateship allowed men to survive and die with a mate around. Their. actions were foreign to me and the spirit of what the ANZAC code is all about.

That is just terrible behaviour, I would have hoped on a trek like that supporting their mates would be one of the most important things to learn!

 

[pawsandclaws1]

Someone mentioned Vitamin B ...where has anyone in all of this been told we can't exercise .....or even sunbathe in your back yard

People don’t have backyards mate . And many are listening to the media , agenda driven panic merchants , who just want to drive hysteria for the clicks .
So many people , especially woman , who IMO have an already in built , genetic flight response , just are hiding inside .
To dismiss this , is naive at best. Many people are too scared to go outside at all , which like you said is over reacting , but it’s still happening.
Until the general consensus is lift the restrictions , these types , which due to some mental health issues in my family recently , Im starting to be more aware of , are really at risk.
And as the majority of our nation live in cities , and the general isolation , people tend to feel in the biggest cities , this is a huge issue.
Domestic violence , alchohol use , online gambling , are through the roof. This isn’t good , as a potential on going social issue post COVID.

I agree, there are many bad things as a result of restrictions, but the alternatives are worse and today being ANZAC day, it reminds us of who is most likely to be affected by this. Both by solitude for recent service personnel and if we don't continue social distancing on a suitable scale as things improve, those that served in Vietnam, Korea etcetera and the children that grew up in the second world war, along with the few remaining survivors of that conflict, it often means direct death.

I am surrounded with the mental health issues you alluded to at home and helping out my very affected sister daily, so I completely understand your concerns, but I am not willing to sacrifice my parents, along with their generation and similar others for the sake of more freedoms.

Mate , I’m 1 of those people . 3 people I served with topped themselves in the last 3 months.
And there’s are at least another 2 , we are really concerned about , as they won’t answer calls and no one knows exactly where they live , since this kicked off.
There were over 3000 deaths in 2019 from suicide , just knowing from the conversations I’ve had , we all just want support and feel like there’s none out there. VVCS is a joke , and the waiting list now is like 6 months just to get a call back.
I didn’t want to talk about this directly , but I am so concerned about days like today , hence my posting today. And that’s just returned serviceman.
There’s so many vulnerable people , out there who can’t just “go sit on their balcony”
The cure can’t be worse than the cause.

I am sorry to learn of your situation. The transition from service life is difficult enough without having to deal with mental health issues. Anyway it is good to have you posting on the forum.

Another death in Tasmania. Thanks Ruby Princess.

Mate I’m fine , but thanks for your concern. Most AJs who return have a really tough time assimilating with regular society , and this can cause huge issues. Sure it can be the things you saw and did , but for many that’s not even the issue. From what I know , it’s the general attitude of regular people , their lack of a certain moral code , and the biggest one , a lack of purpose and belief in what your doing .
So this time of year may seem like a celebration of war for some , but for many , it’s a time of reflection and assessment . Which isn’t always positive .
That’s all I’m saying, speaking in absolutes , and grandstanding to me , just makes people look stupid , no matter how intelligent or in point the subject matter they’re saying .

What moral code are regular people lacking?

I will give you an example of difficulty I have with the code of behaviour
which is not the norm in the military.

The first day on the Track walking from Kokoda to Ower's Corner (north to south), is one of the toughest. It is 8 to 10 hours up hill mostly in full sun. It takes a lot out of you and you need to pace yourself. This young man took off and made it okay to Isurava village but the following day he was second from the rear and clearly staggering. I was last in column and stayed with him as he stopped, said he couldn't go on, vomited and shat his pants. His so-called mates pissed off and raced ahead leaving him alone in the New Guinea Jungle with a virtual stranger. They ended up being 4 hours ahead.

I did what any mate would do for a mate and got him to wash his shorts (bio degradable soap away from the water source), sit, drink staminade, gave him a pep talk and got him going. He powered home to complete the Track.

His mates failed to realise we were walking on sacred ground where mateship allowed men to survive and die with a mate around. Their. actions were foreign to me and the spirit of what the ANZAC code is all about.

That is just terrible behaviour, I would have hoped on a trek like that supporting their mates would be one of the most important things to learn!

Yeah it was an eye opener to behaviour under stress. It gave me a lot of satisfaction to know he finished.

 

[cochise]

Someone mentioned Vitamin B ...where has anyone in all of this been told we can't exercise .....or even sunbathe in your back yard

People don’t have backyards mate . And many are listening to the media , agenda driven panic merchants , who just want to drive hysteria for the clicks .
So many people , especially woman , who IMO have an already in built , genetic flight response , just are hiding inside .
To dismiss this , is naive at best. Many people are too scared to go outside at all , which like you said is over reacting , but it’s still happening.
Until the general consensus is lift the restrictions , these types , which due to some mental health issues in my family recently , Im starting to be more aware of , are really at risk.
And as the majority of our nation live in cities , and the general isolation , people tend to feel in the biggest cities , this is a huge issue.
Domestic violence , alchohol use , online gambling , are through the roof. This isn’t good , as a potential on going social issue post COVID.

I agree, there are many bad things as a result of restrictions, but the alternatives are worse and today being ANZAC day, it reminds us of who is most likely to be affected by this. Both by solitude for recent service personnel and if we don't continue social distancing on a suitable scale as things improve, those that served in Vietnam, Korea etcetera and the children that grew up in the second world war, along with the few remaining survivors of that conflict, it often means direct death.

I am surrounded with the mental health issues you alluded to at home and helping out my very affected sister daily, so I completely understand your concerns, but I am not willing to sacrifice my parents, along with their generation and similar others for the sake of more freedoms.

Mate , I’m 1 of those people . 3 people I served with topped themselves in the last 3 months.
And there’s are at least another 2 , we are really concerned about , as they won’t answer calls and no one knows exactly where they live , since this kicked off.
There were over 3000 deaths in 2019 from suicide , just knowing from the conversations I’ve had , we all just want support and feel like there’s none out there. VVCS is a joke , and the waiting list now is like 6 months just to get a call back.
I didn’t want to talk about this directly , but I am so concerned about days like today , hence my posting today. And that’s just returned serviceman.
There’s so many vulnerable people , out there who can’t just “go sit on their balcony”
The cure can’t be worse than the cause.

Yes the cure can be worse than cause, but what is our alternative at the moment? We can't go with business as usual, I agree that this is extremely tough on people with mental illness and my heart goes out to them. I just don't know what the alternative is!

Not for them , covid doesn’t target young , fit , men. So there’s minimal risk to them . The cure increases their risk . This is my point . Suicide at the moment in Australia is infinitely worse

So you are only concerned about the young and fit? Not trying to be smart, just don't understand your post.

No,I’ll dot point it ;
- older and weak immune systems = extremely high chance of real issues if contracting covid. By and large not a high demographic for mental health issues outside of degenerative ones like schizophrenia and Alzheimer’s . Relatively medium death rate overseas ( this is the issue with covid-19 as its not as bad as other strains like sars , but still pretty bad , and the spread is much easier than SARS type level virus’)

-18-44 year olds suffering from mental illness=low risk of real issues form covid -19. Extremely high risk of suicide and self harm from continuous isolation . Extremely high death rate per annum every year , especially young men . 3000 took their own life in 2019.


That’s my point . Your biting off your hand to spite your foot .
covid directly affects people mothers and fathers , so they sit with them in the hospital and it becomes extremely personal . Even though by and large , in Australian society it’s impact is limited . Even before the lock downs .
Where as the person sitting alone in their home , seems fine , but is slowly losing their grip with reality , and is an actual epidemic in australia . They don’t call it the silent killer for nothing.

Mate that simple is not true, our lock downs have limited the impact of covid 19, without them we would have had 1000's of deaths due to it in a very short space of time. @Tiger5150 do you have the data of the amount of cases and deaths we would likely have seen today if the rate of spread had of continued at the rate it was before the restrictions.

Mental Health is a very real problem with this, but lifting the restrictions is not the answer. We have such low numbers due to these restrictions we have in place!


If we had continued at the same rate as we were at at 24/03/20, we would have 1.9M cases today with over 200,000 dead.

Thanks mate, that is the type of scenario we could have been looking at without restrictions. I know people won't want to believe we were potentially looking at those figures so lets take a 1/4 of it and say if we didn't put restrictions in place we could have been looking at 50000 deaths.

Those numbers were what our leaders were looking at when they made the decisions about a lockdown!

 

[mike]

Someone mentioned Vitamin B ...where has anyone in all of this been told we can't exercise .....or even sunbathe in your back yard

People don’t have backyards mate . And many are listening to the media , agenda driven panic merchants , who just want to drive hysteria for the clicks .
So many people , especially woman , who IMO have an already in built , genetic flight response , just are hiding inside .
To dismiss this , is naive at best. Many people are too scared to go outside at all , which like you said is over reacting , but it’s still happening.
Until the general consensus is lift the restrictions , these types , which due to some mental health issues in my family recently , Im starting to be more aware of , are really at risk.
And as the majority of our nation live in cities , and the general isolation , people tend to feel in the biggest cities , this is a huge issue.
Domestic violence , alchohol use , online gambling , are through the roof. This isn’t good , as a potential on going social issue post COVID.

I agree, there are many bad things as a result of restrictions, but the alternatives are worse and today being ANZAC day, it reminds us of who is most likely to be affected by this. Both by solitude for recent service personnel and if we don't continue social distancing on a suitable scale as things improve, those that served in Vietnam, Korea etcetera and the children that grew up in the second world war, along with the few remaining survivors of that conflict, it often means direct death.

I am surrounded with the mental health issues you alluded to at home and helping out my very affected sister daily, so I completely understand your concerns, but I am not willing to sacrifice my parents, along with their generation and similar others for the sake of more freedoms.

Mate , I’m 1 of those people . 3 people I served with topped themselves in the last 3 months.
And there’s are at least another 2 , we are really concerned about , as they won’t answer calls and no one knows exactly where they live , since this kicked off.
There were over 3000 deaths in 2019 from suicide , just knowing from the conversations I’ve had , we all just want support and feel like there’s none out there. VVCS is a joke , and the waiting list now is like 6 months just to get a call back.
I didn’t want to talk about this directly , but I am so concerned about days like today , hence my posting today. And that’s just returned serviceman.
There’s so many vulnerable people , out there who can’t just “go sit on their balcony”
The cure can’t be worse than the cause.

Days like today can bring things that have been buried to the for and can be difficult for those that suffer. They have my utmost respect and admiration.

You are right that the cure can’t be worse than the cause. We have been fortunate, so far, that the health impacts of Covid19 are order of magnitudes less than what can be observed overseas. I think the main reason though is the isolation protocols that have been put in place. Had Australians not done this and for the most part complied, I am convinced that the cause would be far worse than the cure. The end result being that deaths would have been in the 10’s of thousands rather than less than 100.

This cure can be especially difficult for some but the outcome of not having these restrictions could be much worse.

Of all the places there are in the world there is no where else I would rather be today than in Australia or New Zealand.

 

[Deleted member 3518]

Someone mentioned Vitamin B ...where has anyone in all of this been told we can't exercise .....or even sunbathe in your back yard

People don’t have backyards mate . And many are listening to the media , agenda driven panic merchants , who just want to drive hysteria for the clicks .
So many people , especially woman , who IMO have an already in built , genetic flight response , just are hiding inside .
To dismiss this , is naive at best. Many people are too scared to go outside at all , which like you said is over reacting , but it’s still happening.
Until the general consensus is lift the restrictions , these types , which due to some mental health issues in my family recently , Im starting to be more aware of , are really at risk.
And as the majority of our nation live in cities , and the general isolation , people tend to feel in the biggest cities , this is a huge issue.
Domestic violence , alchohol use , online gambling , are through the roof. This isn’t good , as a potential on going social issue post COVID.

I agree, there are many bad things as a result of restrictions, but the alternatives are worse and today being ANZAC day, it reminds us of who is most likely to be affected by this. Both by solitude for recent service personnel and if we don't continue social distancing on a suitable scale as things improve, those that served in Vietnam, Korea etcetera and the children that grew up in the second world war, along with the few remaining survivors of that conflict, it often means direct death.

I am surrounded with the mental health issues you alluded to at home and helping out my very affected sister daily, so I completely understand your concerns, but I am not willing to sacrifice my parents, along with their generation and similar others for the sake of more freedoms.

Mate , I’m 1 of those people . 3 people I served with topped themselves in the last 3 months.
And there’s are at least another 2 , we are really concerned about , as they won’t answer calls and no one knows exactly where they live , since this kicked off.
There were over 3000 deaths in 2019 from suicide , just knowing from the conversations I’ve had , we all just want support and feel like there’s none out there. VVCS is a joke , and the waiting list now is like 6 months just to get a call back.
I didn’t want to talk about this directly , but I am so concerned about days like today , hence my posting today. And that’s just returned serviceman.
There’s so many vulnerable people , out there who can’t just “go sit on their balcony”
The cure can’t be worse than the cause.

I am sorry to learn of your situation. The transition from service life is difficult enough without having to deal with mental health issues. Anyway it is good to have you posting on the forum.

Another death in Tasmania. Thanks Ruby Princess.

Mate I’m fine , but thanks for your concern. Most AJs who return have a really tough time assimilating with regular society , and this can cause huge issues. Sure it can be the things you saw and did , but for many that’s not even the issue. From what I know , it’s the general attitude of regular people , their lack of a certain moral code , and the biggest one , a lack of purpose and belief in what your doing .
So this time of year may seem like a celebration of war for some , but for many , it’s a time of reflection and assessment . Which isn’t always positive .
That’s all I’m saying, speaking in absolutes , and grandstanding to me , just makes people look stupid , no matter how intelligent or in point the subject matter they’re saying .

What moral code are regular people lacking?

I will give you an example of difficulty I have with the code of behaviour
which is not the norm in the military.

The first day on the Track walking from Kokoda to Ower's Corner (north to south), is one of the toughest. It is 8 to 10 hours up hill mostly in full sun. It takes a lot out of you and you need to pace yourself. This young man took off and made it okay to Isurava village but the following day he was second from the rear and clearly staggering. I was last in column and stayed with him as he stopped, said he couldn't go on, vomited and shat his pants. His so-called mates pissed off and raced ahead leaving him alone in the New Guinea Jungle with a virtual stranger. They ended up being 4 hours ahead.

I did what any mate would do for a mate and got him to wash his shorts (bio degradable soap away from the water source), sit, drink staminade, gave him a pep talk and got him going. He powered home to complete the Track.

His mates failed to realise we were walking on sacred ground where mateship allowed men to survive and die with a mate around. Their. actions were foreign to me and the spirit of what the ANZAC code is all about.

Thank you for this analogy . I was struggling to reply without sounding like a wanker ex- army guy who thinks he’s better than the rest.

This type of behaviour flows into all types of regular day life . From the guy who decides he’s going to turn up late to a meeting which causes more meetings , or the guy who decides he’s going to tell the boss you took 5 mins longer for lunch , and so on it goes.
There’s a lot of bad blokes who were In The army for sure . And of course you could easily pull what I’m saying apart with examples of them , but the don’t go jack on your mates ethos , runs through all nooks and crannies of ex army guys . No matter what corps your in . It was THE most taboo thing to do .
And it is extremely hard to deal with , when culturally the real world operates the exact opposite .

 

[Deleted member 3518]

Someone mentioned Vitamin B ...where has anyone in all of this been told we can't exercise .....or even sunbathe in your back yard

People don’t have backyards mate . And many are listening to the media , agenda driven panic merchants , who just want to drive hysteria for the clicks .
So many people , especially woman , who IMO have an already in built , genetic flight response , just are hiding inside .
To dismiss this , is naive at best. Many people are too scared to go outside at all , which like you said is over reacting , but it’s still happening.
Until the general consensus is lift the restrictions , these types , which due to some mental health issues in my family recently , Im starting to be more aware of , are really at risk.
And as the majority of our nation live in cities , and the general isolation , people tend to feel in the biggest cities , this is a huge issue.
Domestic violence , alchohol use , online gambling , are through the roof. This isn’t good , as a potential on going social issue post COVID.

I agree, there are many bad things as a result of restrictions, but the alternatives are worse and today being ANZAC day, it reminds us of who is most likely to be affected by this. Both by solitude for recent service personnel and if we don't continue social distancing on a suitable scale as things improve, those that served in Vietnam, Korea etcetera and the children that grew up in the second world war, along with the few remaining survivors of that conflict, it often means direct death.

I am surrounded with the mental health issues you alluded to at home and helping out my very affected sister daily, so I completely understand your concerns, but I am not willing to sacrifice my parents, along with their generation and similar others for the sake of more freedoms.

Mate , I’m 1 of those people . 3 people I served with topped themselves in the last 3 months.
And there’s are at least another 2 , we are really concerned about , as they won’t answer calls and no one knows exactly where they live , since this kicked off.
There were over 3000 deaths in 2019 from suicide , just knowing from the conversations I’ve had , we all just want support and feel like there’s none out there. VVCS is a joke , and the waiting list now is like 6 months just to get a call back.
I didn’t want to talk about this directly , but I am so concerned about days like today , hence my posting today. And that’s just returned serviceman.
There’s so many vulnerable people , out there who can’t just “go sit on their balcony”
The cure can’t be worse than the cause.

Yes the cure can be worse than cause, but what is our alternative at the moment? We can't go with business as usual, I agree that this is extremely tough on people with mental illness and my heart goes out to them. I just don't know what the alternative is!

Not for them , covid doesn’t target young , fit , men. So there’s minimal risk to them . The cure increases their risk . This is my point . Suicide at the moment in Australia is infinitely worse

So you are only concerned about the young and fit? Not trying to be smart, just don't understand your post.

No,I’ll dot point it ;
- older and weak immune systems = extremely high chance of real issues if contracting covid. By and large not a high demographic for mental health issues outside of degenerative ones like schizophrenia and Alzheimer’s . Relatively medium death rate overseas ( this is the issue with covid-19 as its not as bad as other strains like sars , but still pretty bad , and the spread is much easier than SARS type level virus’)

-18-44 year olds suffering from mental illness=low risk of real issues form covid -19. Extremely high risk of suicide and self harm from continuous isolation . Extremely high death rate per annum every year , especially young men . 3000 took their own life in 2019.


That’s my point . Your biting off your hand to spite your foot .
covid directly affects people mothers and fathers , so they sit with them in the hospital and it becomes extremely personal . Even though by and large , in Australian society it’s impact is limited . Even before the lock downs .
Where as the person sitting alone in their home , seems fine , but is slowly losing their grip with reality , and is an actual epidemic in australia . They don’t call it the silent killer for nothing.

Mate that simple is not true, our lock downs have limited the impact of covid 19, without them we would have had 1000's of deaths due to it in a very short space of time. @Tiger5150 do you have the data of the amount of cases and deaths we would likely have seen today if the rate of spread had of continued at the rate it was before the restrictions.

Mental Health is a very real problem with this, but lifting the restrictions is not the answer. We have such low numbers due to these restrictions we have in place!


If we had continued at the same rate as we were at at 24/03/20, we would have 1.9M cases today with over 200,000 dead.

Thanks mate, that is the type of scenario we could have been looking at without restrictions. I know people won't want to believe we were potentially looking at those figures so lets take a 1/4 of it and say if we didn't put restrictions in place we could have been looking at 50000 deaths.

Those numbers were what our leaders were looking at when they made the decisions about a lockdown!

I’m not saying any of that . I’m not saying don’t isolate , I’m not even saying lift the restrictions . I’m saying IT CANNOT continue like it is for too much longer , as it WILL lead to social issues we might be dealing with for years to come .
That’s it .. no debate about social distancing , just an irritation with statements advocating zero tolerance .
As that’s absolutely ridiculous to me , and usually is said by people of a certain pay level , a certain age in life , and a certain power dynamic. Of which I fit perfectly into By the way .
I’m saying Absolution is crap . It has to be a continuous dynamic conversation , ready to pivot in any direction at a moments notice .

 

[happy_tiger]

Someone mentioned Vitamin B ...where has anyone in all of this been told we can't exercise .....or even sunbathe in your back yard

People don’t have backyards mate . And many are listening to the media , agenda driven panic merchants , who just want to drive hysteria for the clicks .
So many people , especially woman , who IMO have an already in built , genetic flight response , just are hiding inside .
To dismiss this , is naive at best. Many people are too scared to go outside at all , which like you said is over reacting , but it’s still happening.
Until the general consensus is lift the restrictions , these types , which due to some mental health issues in my family recently , Im starting to be more aware of , are really at risk.
And as the majority of our nation live in cities , and the general isolation , people tend to feel in the biggest cities , this is a huge issue.
Domestic violence , alchohol use , online gambling , are through the roof. This isn’t good , as a potential on going social issue post COVID.

I agree, there are many bad things as a result of restrictions, but the alternatives are worse and today being ANZAC day, it reminds us of who is most likely to be affected by this. Both by solitude for recent service personnel and if we don't continue social distancing on a suitable scale as things improve, those that served in Vietnam, Korea etcetera and the children that grew up in the second world war, along with the few remaining survivors of that conflict, it often means direct death.

I am surrounded with the mental health issues you alluded to at home and helping out my very affected sister daily, so I completely understand your concerns, but I am not willing to sacrifice my parents, along with their generation and similar others for the sake of more freedoms.

Mate , I’m 1 of those people . 3 people I served with topped themselves in the last 3 months.
And there’s are at least another 2 , we are really concerned about , as they won’t answer calls and no one knows exactly where they live , since this kicked off.
There were over 3000 deaths in 2019 from suicide , just knowing from the conversations I’ve had , we all just want support and feel like there’s none out there. VVCS is a joke , and the waiting list now is like 6 months just to get a call back.
I didn’t want to talk about this directly , but I am so concerned about days like today , hence my posting today. And that’s just returned serviceman.
There’s so many vulnerable people , out there who can’t just “go sit on their balcony”
The cure can’t be worse than the cause.

Yes the cure can be worse than cause, but what is our alternative at the moment? We can't go with business as usual, I agree that this is extremely tough on people with mental illness and my heart goes out to them. I just don't know what the alternative is!

Not for them , covid doesn’t target young , fit , men. So there’s minimal risk to them . The cure increases their risk . This is my point . Suicide at the moment in Australia is infinitely worse

So you are only concerned about the young and fit? Not trying to be smart, just don't understand your post.

No,I’ll dot point it ;
- older and weak immune systems = extremely high chance of real issues if contracting covid. By and large not a high demographic for mental health issues outside of degenerative ones like schizophrenia and Alzheimer’s . Relatively medium death rate overseas ( this is the issue with covid-19 as its not as bad as other strains like sars , but still pretty bad , and the spread is much easier than SARS type level virus’)

-18-44 year olds suffering from mental illness=low risk of real issues form covid -19. Extremely high risk of suicide and self harm from continuous isolation . Extremely high death rate per annum every year , especially young men . 3000 took their own life in 2019.


That’s my point . Your biting off your hand to spite your foot .
covid directly affects people mothers and fathers , so they sit with them in the hospital and it becomes extremely personal . Even though by and large , in Australian society it’s impact is limited . Even before the lock downs .
Where as the person sitting alone in their home , seems fine , but is slowly losing their grip with reality , and is an actual epidemic in australia . They don’t call it the silent killer for nothing.

Mate that simple is not true, our lock downs have limited the impact of covid 19, without them we would have had 1000's of deaths due to it in a very short space of time. @Tiger5150 do you have the data of the amount of cases and deaths we would likely have seen today if the rate of spread had of continued at the rate it was before the restrictions.

Mental Health is a very real problem with this, but lifting the restrictions is not the answer. We have such low numbers due to these restrictions we have in place!


If we had continued at the same rate as we were at at 24/03/20, we would have 1.9M cases today with over 200,000 dead.

Thanks mate, that is the type of scenario we could have been looking at without restrictions. I know people won't want to believe we were potentially looking at those figures so lets take a 1/4 of it and say if we didn't put restrictions in place we could have been looking at 50000 deaths.

Those numbers were what our leaders were looking at when they made the decisions about a lockdown!

I’m not saying any of that . I’m not saying don’t isolate , I’m not even saying lift the restrictions . I’m saying IT CANNOT continue like it is for too much longer , as it WILL lead to social issues we might be dealing with for years to come .
That’s it .. no debate about social distancing , just an irritation with statements advocating zero tolerance .
As that’s absolutely ridiculous to me , and usually is said by people of a certain pay level , a certain age in life , and a certain power dynamic. Of which I fit perfectly into By the way .
I’m saying Absolution is crap . It has to be a continuous dynamic conversation , ready to pivot in any direction at a moments notice .

I think the problem was the behaviour of many that 1st weekend after we were all warned about social distancing which created the biggest mess

The footage inside and outside bars , clubs and restaurants proved many people weren't heeding the warnings

As I pointed out about a party of 200 people is a 800 sp house /block in my neck of the woods that weekend

The footage forced the govt's hand ...they didn't have a choice

Friends of Mum's who walk their dog every day and are in their late 60's got a threatening letter saying why should they get to walk around when the people wrote the letter lost their jobs ......

 

[cochise]

Someone mentioned Vitamin B ...where has anyone in all of this been told we can't exercise .....or even sunbathe in your back yard

People don’t have backyards mate . And many are listening to the media , agenda driven panic merchants , who just want to drive hysteria for the clicks .
So many people , especially woman , who IMO have an already in built , genetic flight response , just are hiding inside .
To dismiss this , is naive at best. Many people are too scared to go outside at all , which like you said is over reacting , but it’s still happening.
Until the general consensus is lift the restrictions , these types , which due to some mental health issues in my family recently , Im starting to be more aware of , are really at risk.
And as the majority of our nation live in cities , and the general isolation , people tend to feel in the biggest cities , this is a huge issue.
Domestic violence , alchohol use , online gambling , are through the roof. This isn’t good , as a potential on going social issue post COVID.

I agree, there are many bad things as a result of restrictions, but the alternatives are worse and today being ANZAC day, it reminds us of who is most likely to be affected by this. Both by solitude for recent service personnel and if we don't continue social distancing on a suitable scale as things improve, those that served in Vietnam, Korea etcetera and the children that grew up in the second world war, along with the few remaining survivors of that conflict, it often means direct death.

I am surrounded with the mental health issues you alluded to at home and helping out my very affected sister daily, so I completely understand your concerns, but I am not willing to sacrifice my parents, along with their generation and similar others for the sake of more freedoms.

Mate , I’m 1 of those people . 3 people I served with topped themselves in the last 3 months.
And there’s are at least another 2 , we are really concerned about , as they won’t answer calls and no one knows exactly where they live , since this kicked off.
There were over 3000 deaths in 2019 from suicide , just knowing from the conversations I’ve had , we all just want support and feel like there’s none out there. VVCS is a joke , and the waiting list now is like 6 months just to get a call back.
I didn’t want to talk about this directly , but I am so concerned about days like today , hence my posting today. And that’s just returned serviceman.
There’s so many vulnerable people , out there who can’t just “go sit on their balcony”
The cure can’t be worse than the cause.

Yes the cure can be worse than cause, but what is our alternative at the moment? We can't go with business as usual, I agree that this is extremely tough on people with mental illness and my heart goes out to them. I just don't know what the alternative is!

Not for them , covid doesn’t target young , fit , men. So there’s minimal risk to them . The cure increases their risk . This is my point . Suicide at the moment in Australia is infinitely worse

So you are only concerned about the young and fit? Not trying to be smart, just don't understand your post.

No,I’ll dot point it ;
- older and weak immune systems = extremely high chance of real issues if contracting covid. By and large not a high demographic for mental health issues outside of degenerative ones like schizophrenia and Alzheimer’s . Relatively medium death rate overseas ( this is the issue with covid-19 as its not as bad as other strains like sars , but still pretty bad , and the spread is much easier than SARS type level virus’)

-18-44 year olds suffering from mental illness=low risk of real issues form covid -19. Extremely high risk of suicide and self harm from continuous isolation . Extremely high death rate per annum every year , especially young men . 3000 took their own life in 2019.


That’s my point . Your biting off your hand to spite your foot .
covid directly affects people mothers and fathers , so they sit with them in the hospital and it becomes extremely personal . Even though by and large , in Australian society it’s impact is limited . Even before the lock downs .
Where as the person sitting alone in their home , seems fine , but is slowly losing their grip with reality , and is an actual epidemic in australia . They don’t call it the silent killer for nothing.

Mate that simple is not true, our lock downs have limited the impact of covid 19, without them we would have had 1000's of deaths due to it in a very short space of time. @Tiger5150 do you have the data of the amount of cases and deaths we would likely have seen today if the rate of spread had of continued at the rate it was before the restrictions.

Mental Health is a very real problem with this, but lifting the restrictions is not the answer. We have such low numbers due to these restrictions we have in place!


If we had continued at the same rate as we were at at 24/03/20, we would have 1.9M cases today with over 200,000 dead.

Thanks mate, that is the type of scenario we could have been looking at without restrictions. I know people won't want to believe we were potentially looking at those figures so lets take a 1/4 of it and say if we didn't put restrictions in place we could have been looking at 50000 deaths.

Those numbers were what our leaders were looking at when they made the decisions about a lockdown!

I’m not saying any of that . I’m not saying don’t isolate , I’m not even saying lift the restrictions . I’m saying IT CANNOT continue like it is for too much longer , as it WILL lead to social issues we might be dealing with for years to come .
That’s it .. no debate about social distancing , just an irritation with statements advocating zero tolerance .
As that’s absolutely ridiculous to me , and usually is said by people of a certain pay level , a certain age in life , and a certain power dynamic. Of which I fit perfectly into By the way .
I’m saying Absolution is crap . It has to be a continuous dynamic conversation , ready to pivot in any direction at a moments notice .

I think we are pretty much agreement mate, I think we as a country are doing a pretty good job of walking that knife's edge at the moment. I really do feel for anyone struggling with mental health issues at the moment and hope all those that are struggling have friends and family reaching out to them. Hopefully in 3 weeks restrictions get eased a little and small groups are allowed to gather which will give an outlet to those suffering mental illness!

 

[Tiger5150]

Seems its hard to kill off. 20 cases yesterday, 14 and 12 the two days before. The multiplier is jammed again at 1.002 for three days straight. A glimmer of hope is that it seems to have regularly done this through out its progress, by which I mean that it stagnates at a certain rate for 3-5 days before dropping. Im sure its to do with testing, contract tracing etc. Im still hopeful that somehow we can drop it to zero (multiplier rate of 1.0000) and hold for a few weeks.

It would make a massive difference to the decisions that need to be made and it would also make a massive difference to what "normal" looks like when we get out.



 

[Tim Sheens]

I hope that the wider testing would have that number above more resembling a result of double or so of that number from week or more ago when the criteria was much stricter. Still, it is likely that the true numbers of transmission would be five to ten times and possibly greater than yesterday's figure.

On that basis and that we had already factored in a six month program, I would prefer that we maintain the status quo for another couple of weeks and reassess.

 

[cochise]

I hope that the wider testing would have that number above more resembling a result of double or so of that number from week or more ago when the criteria was much stricter. Still, it is likely that the true numbers of transmission would be five to ten times and possibly greater than yesterday's figure.

On that basis and that we had already factored in a six month program, I would prefer that we maintain the status quo for another couple of weeks and reassess.

Studies of our data have suggested that Australia is detecting 93% of all cases and it is highly unlikely we have wide spread community transition!

 

[Tim Sheens]

I hope that the wider testing would have that number above more resembling a result of double or so of that number from week or more ago when the criteria was much stricter. Still, it is likely that the true numbers of transmission would be five to ten times and possibly greater than yesterday's figure.

On that basis and that we had already factored in a six month program, I would prefer that we maintain the status quo for another couple of weeks and reassess.

Studies of our data have suggested that Australia is detecting 93% of all cases and it is highly unlikely we have wide spread community transition!

I respectfully disagree with that figure.