Coronavirus Outbreak

[earl]

I have a big problem with people lying, and intentionally spreading misinformation in the face of conclusive scientific proof to the contrary. That I have a big problem with and Earl has been doing it continually for a long time and I dont know why he is doing it but he should stop.

More lies. Did you post aggressively suggesting a podcast that was completely wrong and was taken off YouTube for disinformation and a man followed and died ? I'll answer for you - the answer is yes you did.

Is Dr Chant wrong ? Is NSW health wrong ? My advice has consistently been completely aligned to their advice.

Do you know better than the health advice ? If not then you need to stop making out that you are giving opinions or something like that. You have consistently provided links/references to the worst type of disinformation available. You struck gold in getting it so wrong.

 

[happy_tiger]

Hi Scomo ...I'll get the vaccine ...how about you get some into Gladstone ...we are out of Pziser

 

[Tiger5150]

I said to Earl he was wrong about vaccine efficacy declining in Israel. Earl was making the point that the *Pfizer* vaccine *in itself* had stopped working and the efficacy of the *Pfizer vaccine itself* was declining in Israel. Simply not true, Delta became the dominant variant.

Semantics. Thanks for admitting you got it wrong.

Not semantics at all and I will prove again why I am not wrong but you continually lie and prove yourself to be a liar and ignorant.


>Is Delta COVID ?

Technically, it is SARS-CoV2-B.1.617.2. , The Alpha is SARS-CoV2-B.1.1.7. Can you spot a difference? They are different.


>Did the effectiveness drop significantly ?

Thank you for your question, and thank you for your ongoing dedication to proving your obstinate ignorance. Let me see if I can help you with that.

To answer directly, **no**, the effectiveness of the vaccine did **not** drop significantly.

Let me try to explain this to you simply. In Israel, UK, Aus, US, both Alpha and Delta co-exist. If in June 2020, you and I were locked in small unventilated room in Israel and you were fully vaccinated with Pfizer and I was infectious with SARS-CoV2-B.1.1.7. (Alpha) what is the chance that you would catch it? The answer is you have a 9% chance of catching it. If am locked in that same room with you today and you are vaccinated fully with Pfizer and I am infectious with SARS-CoV2-B.1.1.7. what is the chance of you catching it? It is still 9%, it hasnt changed. If however I have SARS-CoV2-B.1.617.2. then that risk of catching it increases significantly to 12% according to New England Journal of Medicine, significantly higher in that CDC report the Third posted.
https://www.nejm.org/doi/full/10.1056/NEJMoa2108891

The effectiveness of the vaccine hasnt changed, the disease did.

Regardless when you made that point originally you were arguing relative efficacy between Pfizer and AZ and AZ is not available in Israel.


>Have you read the research recently stating how the effectiveness of both vaccines are about equal.

Point out which research you are referring to (with links).
I have repeatedly posted research from NEw England Journal of Medicine, The Lancet, The British Medical Journal and Public Health England showing that there is almost no difference between the effectiveness of both vaccines *against hospitalisation or death* however there is an almost 20% difference between the two vaccines in effectiveness in stopping infection. For the millionth time, here is some of my data, happy for you to post yours contradicting mine.
https://www.nejm.org/doi/full/10.1056/NEJMoa2108891
https://www.gov.uk/government/news/vaccines-highly-effective-against-hospitalisation-from-delta-variant
https://www.gov.uk/government/publications/investigation-of-novel-sars-cov-2-variant-variant-of-concern-20201201
https://www.bmj.com/content/374/bmj.n1960

>The whole point is that you had no idea what efficacy was and you got it wrong and oh so wrong.

Earl, if you repeat a lie over and over and over again, it doesnt make it true. What it *does* do is make me post long lists of actual data and studies from such nuffies as the British Medical Journal, New England Journal of Medicine, Public Health England and The Lancet (all above for the millionth time) clearly demonstrating the efficacy of both vaccines....clearly. Yet you just repeat this rubbish that I dont understand efficacy. You watched a Vox video and misunderstood it. You really are looking silly here mate.

Why did you continue to go against the health advice which Dr Chant clearly states regularly ? Are you stating you know better than Dr Chant ?


Seriously what are you talking about? What advice am I going against?

Have you admitted your special podcast that you pushed so hard on here has been taken down from YouTube due to being construed as misinformation ?

Earl, serious question. What was that podcast about? Do you know what that podcast was about?

I know you dont, so I'll help you out. It was about Tess Lawries meta analysis on Ivermectin (a drug which the clinical evidence shows is not statistically effective). You know the meta analysis I am talking about? Its the same meta analysis that **you** so proudly shared in this thread and made triumphant declarations about. Are you pushing misinformation?

>Just to be clear the whole podcast was taken down because it was dodgy science.

My main concern at the time was the fact that the podcast was removed. Can you point me in the direction of the reason it was taken down?

Was Tess Lawries meta analysis "dodgy science" when you promoted it here?

 

[Tiger5150]

I posted a really good paper previously on the effect of COVID on children. There are currently some health experts/epidemiologists arguing that teenagers do not need to be vaccinated. The argument here is that the risk to them is so low and we are in a pandemic and therefore the best option is to vaccinate the poor countries rather than low risk demographics.

https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pmc/articles/PMC7721859/

This paper here articulates the risk of dying from COVID compared to accidental deaths.

>The estimated age-specific IFR is very low for children and younger adults (e.g., 0.002% at age 10 and 0.01% at age 25) but increases progressively to 0.4% at age 55, 1.4% at age 65, 4.6% at age 75, and 15% at age 85. Moreover, our results indicate that about 90% of the variation in population IFR across geographical locations reflects differences in the age composition of the population and the extent to which relatively vulnerable age groups were exposed to the virus.

This is basically stating that your risk profile increases significantly as you age. There is no specific information on children because the grouping is below the age of 25.

NOT...having a go at you Earl, but that data was collected prior to September 2020 and therefore is based on the Alpha variant. It would be interesting and useful to see how it compares with the Delta variant which based on reports seems to be impacting younger people more.

Unrelated to your data here Earl but I am genuinely interested in actual data of the impact of Delta on the young because due to the fact that vacciantions have been prioritised by age, it is a certainty that proportionally the percentage of younger people infected MUST rise but not necessarily due to an increase in the ability of Delta to infect or impact young people. That fact doesnt exclude it though.

The first paper has more up to date information.

COVID is COVID though. The delta is twice as infectious but the same principles should apply.

Without a study or data to back it up? So the vaccine should work just as well with Delta?


As I stated earlier there isn't much information on children but I believe that is probably because it simply isn't effecting them as much.

what do you base this on?

 

[cochise]

This is from NSW Health staff training.

Interesting how the health information appears to correspond to my information. It's almost like I'm copying the health information.

Crazy stuff.

Mate, I'm not keeping score, I don't think there are any winners in this.

 

[Tiger5150]

5150 .. the scientist
Earl … disgraced former GP

Have I got that correct ?

Apologies in advance if not lol

Earl isnt claiming he was a GP is he?

His father was .. apparently

Close. He was a pathologist who worked at Westmead Hospital and then in private practice. He has been retired for a number of years though.

Also Earl......
"Did they go and get medical advice ? My dad ****is a retired docto******r**. "

https://weststigersforum.com/topic/30513/coronavirus-outbreak/11728

Truth be damned.

 

[earl]

This is from NSW Health staff training.

Interesting how the health information appears to correspond to my information. It's almost like I'm copying the health information.

Crazy stuff.

Mate, I'm not keeping score, I don't think there are any winners in this.

Maybe not but that guy has posted so much dribble and attacked me when his advice has gone against the health advice.

It kills me that he ranted and raved and had that Vox video on efficacy taken off this forum because he argued confidently it was disinformation. It wasn't disinformation.

He continually shoved his horse (it was something like that) podcast on all of us and I am deadly serious it was pulled from YouTube because it was so wrong. I posted a guy who listened to that dribble and died.

I mean you can't get more wrong and he acts so confident.

 

[Tiger5150]

You also owe me an apology and a correction for stating that I posted that the vaccines dont work.

No, no and no. You have made so many mistakes it's not funny. You have no clue but worse than that you talk so confidently when you are wrong.

Let's be honest you aren't even a little bit wrong. You get it completely wrong.

Im not going to bore everyone with the hundredth rendition of "I posted data for everything"

Im not going to let you off the hook with this. I am not asking for an apology because the back and forth, I am demanding an apology for your lie that I posted that vaccines dont work.

You stated, clearly that I posted that vaccines dont work. You should be a man and have the courage of your convictions and point out here a post where I stated that vaccines dont work.

You wont because I NEVER posted that vaccines dont work because I have never thought that they dont work.

If you cant point to a post of mine that says vaccines dont work, you should be a man about, have the courage of your convictions and state here that you were wrong and provide an apology.

If you dont, then IMO the mods should at least ban you from this thread but they probably wont but if you dont provide that apology, at least you will have shown to everyone else here that you are a gutless coward with no integrity and everything else you post here can be assessed through that filter.


Over to you Earl. Which will it be? Point to my post or an apology?

 

[earl]

If you really want to learn something I'm happy to engage but no more nonsense from you. I've caught you out and no offense but it's just stupid.

Without a study or data to back it up? So the vaccine should work just as well with Delta?

It actually does. You just don't understand what you are talking about. You keep focusing on the effectiveness to stop you getting COVID. This immunity is never going to remain completely stable. The only reason to care about this is to lower the R rate. It's not though that important.

The important thing is that the vaccines stop you from developing serious illness. They keep you out of hospital. This protection has remained really really good.

Don't argue with this because if you try it just means you are making more dumb comments and don't get it.

what do you base this on?

The massive amount of data that we have from all over the world. Children are not affected anywhere near as much. My assumption is because children are not affected as much there is much less studies on them.

 

[Geo]

I have another idea..Maybe a date via PM's..

 

[TillLindemann]

Your final point is a very valid one and one I will agree 100% with you on. The inequity between small business and larger businesses will grow even further. Amazon, Woolies, Coles, McDonalds, eBay, Harvey Norman, all these businesses will continue to grow and the mum and dad high street shops all go to the wall.

Don't ask me how, but we have to try and find way to address this. Small business is a vital part of not just our economy but our society, we can't just be a nation of employees of huge corporations.

 

[earl]

Over to you Earl. Which will it be? Point to my post or an apology?

You are such a drama queen. The mods should ban me but not you for posting information that has been clearly classified as being disinformation. You have no self awareness at all.

I am not posting an apology to you. You've been wrong in so many ways so many times.

You can apologize to me for the 100's of things you've posted that have been wrong and for your inability to understand simple science and facts. Go on.

Alternatively you can cry to the mods to take down accurate information that I've provided while you post stuff that is freaken terrible.

If you didn't state vaccines didn't work I bet you did post links to Dr Malone and his band of unscientific story tellers who state the vaccine wasn't safe. You are just playing semantics again.

 

[earl]

I have another idea..Maybe a date via PM's..

A date ???

 

[Geo]

I have another idea..Maybe a date via PM's..

A date ???

To discuss the issues between you..yes..

 

[innsaneink]

Who IS keeping score?

 

[earl]

Don’t ask me how, but we have to try and find way to address this. Small business is a vital part of not just our economy but our society, we can’t just be a nation of employees of huge corporations.

This is my no 1 reason why we have to get out of harsh lockdowns. I have several friends who have small businesses and they are getting smashed. I work for a big bank and I've had it so good. I had a sore back and didn't do any work. I still don't really work that much.

It's not right.

 

[pawsandclaws1]

A big thank you to all our health care professionals looking after all the Covid patients. Many seem to forget you put your own health and lives at risk everyday. I'll do my bit by washing my hands, keeping a distance, wearing a mask and staying safe at home.

I still remember the crew of the Ruby Princess with the thank you Illawarra banner on the stern.

 

[earl]

I have another idea..Maybe a date via PM's..

A date ???

To discuss the issues between you..yes..

You had my hopes up. I thought you were asking me out.

 

[earl]

A big thank you to all our health care professionals looking after all the Covid patients. Many seem to forget you put your own health and lives at risk everyday. I’ll do my bit by washing my hands, keeping a distance, wearing a mask and staying safe at home.

Same here. I think they deserve a medal. I'm so impressed.

 

[Tiger5150]

If you really want to learn something I'm happy to engage but no more nonsense from you. I've caught you out and no offense but it's just stupid.

I have no desire to engage with you on anything and I certain I will not learn anything from you. You havent caught me out on anything and I have very clearly demonstrated to everyone here what is correct and everyone here can clearly see how things are.

I have no need to engage with you and I am certain it is to the benefit of this forum and this thread if I dont. I am very happy not to. However every time you lie and knowingly spread misinformation I will call you out on it you can be assured of that.

Now, Ill be waiting for my apology and statement that you were lying about me posting that vaccines dont work and we can get back to our usual programming. You certainly have the integrity and courage for that right? You wouldnt embarass yourself in front of everyone here by sticking to that lie and proving that you have no integrity? Would you?