Coronavirus Outbreak

[weststigers]

YES OF COURSE I AM!!! It started there, when it was discovered it was in small numbers and there was an opportunity to contain it. No other country had that opportunity. The CCP instead arrested people, destroyed evidence and told the world it didnt exist!!!

We've all had the opportunity to limit the spread of this in our countries and across the world. Trump, who is a convicted Rapist and Felon told everyone it was just a cold. He was completely incompetent. Look at the situation in Europe now.

I get where you are coming from and clearly China needs to take action. I am also critical of several actions that China has taken.

Sure the CCP has done lots of things wrong and continue to do lots of things wrong but there is plenty of blame to go around. Let's all calm down, stop being irrational and think what can happen to stop these events occurring again.

One thing you continue to omit is when China actually allowed the WHO to study the virus.

They only allowed the WHO to enter on 14 Feb. Prior to that, they were frustrating the process of allowing them to come in to study the virus. The actual arrival date of these researchers was a little later. https://thehill.com/policy/healthcare/483152-who-team-headed-to-china-as-coronavirus-cases-climb

Until then, Chinas information was that it was a little cold and world leaders were repeating that.

The start date of the virus is debatable, but let's say it is October/November (although I believe it was earlier).

That's at least 3 months they were letting their citizens scoot around the world infecting all and sundry without access to the virus itself to be able to study it. No one knew what they were dealing with except China!

They dropped a silent bomb and they've left the world holding the baby. Yet you want to blame Australia? Mate, Australia and the world have been totally mugged off here.

In my view, given we didn't know much about it until the WHO went into China in late February, and we are now at March 20, we've shut the whole nation down in about 3-4 weeks from the time we knew what we were dealing with. I don't know about you, but 4 weeks notice to "Close Australia" is a pretty short turnaround and at the cost of destroying your whole economy, negotiating with banks to offer payment deferrals to the people and giving billions in stimulus.

At this point, I'm proud to be an Australian and I give no credit to China for their handling of the situation - at this point, they haven't even closed their borders!

 

[earl]

That’s at least 3 months they were letting their citizens scoot around the world infecting all and sundry without access to the virus itself to be able to study it. No one knew what they were dealing with except China!

China reported this in December 2019. We've only just shut our borders now after the world has gone into meltdown. I'm not even crucifying the Australian government over this because the implications as you state are huge.

My opinion is as that a bunch of you are politicizing this issue and trying to make China out to be the sole cause (or majority) cause of this issue and it's way over the top.

This is a massive failure on so many levels.

 

[earl]

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=6Af6b_wyiwI

This is 5 years old.

 

[weststigers]

That’s at least 3 months they were letting their citizens scoot around the world infecting all and sundry without access to the virus itself to be able to study it. No one knew what they were dealing with except China!

China reported this in December 2019. We've only just shut our borders now after the world has gone into meltdown. I'm not even crucifying the Australian government over this because the implications as you state are huge.

My opinion is as that a bunch of you are politicizing this issue and trying to make China out to be the sole cause (or majority) cause of this issue and it's way over the top.

This is a massive failure on so many levels.

Earl...you've cherry picked part of my post.

The CCP only agreed to let the WHO in on 14 Feb. Their actual arrival date was a short time after that. We didn't know what we were really dealing with until the WHO completed their research.

I'm sorry mate. I know there's a lot of misinformation flying around, but the CCP was playing it down up until the WHO got a hold of the virus for testing.

 

[trentrunciman]

In light of the Persian new year thought I'd share Saadi's 'bani Adam's which is the unoffical motto of the UN

All human beings are members of one frame,
Since all, at first, from the same essence came.
When time afflicts a limb with pain
The other limbs at rest cannot remain.
If thou feel not for other’s misery
A human being is no name for thee."

Take care all!

 

[Snake]

Earl, it is a FACT that only ONE country had the opportunity to stop this thing in its tracks. Every other country has started from a position where they dont know how many cases are in the country, where they are, no capacity to contain it, and potential contagiants everywhere. Impossible to close borders because you at least have to let nationals home (with the virus).

I'll take this as an admittance that no other country has done what you are suggesting China should have done. I think it's best to drop it there.

The facts are no country has reacted the way that you are stating China should have reacted however you have excuses for every other country excluding China.

To me that is not a tenable position to be in.

If you said all countries should have been put into lock down immediately I don't even agree with that.

Singapore and Taiwan did a pretty good job of stopping it in it's tracks...

They also have a population that does what it is told ...as someone has said school kids in the shopping Centers instead of being at home isolated!! Good parenting there do not go to school but roam around in public being exposed . Aussies are dumb as sometimes .

x 2 The biggest problem in all this is young people ....most couldn't give a rats if it affected anyone else

I know of a party this is going ahead this weekend of two 18 year olds who share the same birthday ...will be hundreds at the party ...I have about 9 staff going ..it's just nuts

I would imagine that party would be illegal after the Prime Minister has just announced a 4 sq meter distancing between any person in a gathering ... a massive fine or threat of goal will ensure . Better check details mate would not like to see you in a green jump suit!

 

[earl]

I’m sorry mate. I know there’s a lot of misinformation flying around, but the CCP was playing it down up until the WHO got a hold of the virus for testing.

I'm not doubting this but I just showed a factual flaw in your reasoning. You and others want this to be a China (mainly the CCP) problem. That is simplistic and I'm going to state stupid.

I'm not stating China is perfect. I'm trying to have a realistic and rational discussion about the virus. Sorry the lack of knowledge on this thread has been pretty extreme. I had one poster ask me how many viruses have come out over the last 70 years as if this never occurs. It happens all the time. It's been happening throughout history. Can you remember HIV ? What about mad cows disease ? Have you heard of Ebola ?

I saw Matty Johns shaking hands the other day. We are playing rugby league this weekend. Gyms and restaurants are still open.

I'm honestly okay with all of those steps. I'm just stating that let's accept that this issue is a little bigger than just the CCP. If you think this has all been caused by the CCP fine. It's impossible to discuss issues with people that are not logical or rational.

 

[Tiger5150]

I’m sorry mate. I know there’s a lot of misinformation flying around, but the CCP was playing it down up until the WHO got a hold of the virus for testing.

I'm not doubting this but I just showed a factual flaw in your reasoning. You and others want this to be a China (mainly the CCP) problem. That is ***simplistic and I'm going to state stupid***.
I'm not stating China is perfect. ***I'm trying to have a realistic and rational discussion about the virus***. Sorry the lack of knowledge on this thread has been pretty extreme. I had one poster ask me how many viruses have come out over the last 70 years as if this never occurs. It happens all the time. It's been happening throughout history. Can you remember HIV ? What about mad cows disease ? Have you heard of Ebola ?

I saw Matty Johns shaking hands the other day. We are playing rugby league this weekend. Gyms and restaurants are still open.

I'm honestly okay with all of those steps. I'm just stating that let's accept that this issue is a little bigger than just the CCP. If you think this has all been caused by the CCP fine. ***It's impossible to discuss issues with people that are not logical or rational***.

Thats a pretty high horse you rode in on Earl.

You state you are "trying to have a realistic and rational discussion about the virus" except the people you are trying so valiantly against the odds to discuss this with are "stupid", "illogical" and "Irrational". This is despite the fact that these people that you are discussing it with you have repeatedly made cogent arguments about the choices the CCP made to smother, arrest, detain and destroy evidence rather than act to contain but you continue to ignore it. Despite your continual ignorance of these cogent arguments and unwillingness to address them, neither myself or anyone else has called you names despite you calling us stupid, delusional etc.

Again you explain the hardship you are going through with the stunning ignorance on this thread by those other than yourself and how extreme it has been for you. I will not make a big deal out of the brutal irony that you think Mad Cow Disease is caused by a virus. Stunning and extreme indeed.

Personally, I find it difficult discuss issues with those that are so arrogant that they think they are superior in their intellect and status despite overwhelming evidence to the contrary.

 

[hobbo1]

I don’t like China and I sure as hell don’t trust them !
#pauline4pm

 

[earl]

I’m sorry mate. I know there’s a lot of misinformation flying around, but the CCP was playing it down up until the WHO got a hold of the virus for testing.

I'm not doubting this but I just showed a factual flaw in your reasoning. You and others want this to be a China (mainly the CCP) problem. That is ***simplistic and I'm going to state stupid***.
I'm not stating China is perfect. ***I'm trying to have a realistic and rational discussion about the virus***. Sorry the lack of knowledge on this thread has been pretty extreme. I had one poster ask me how many viruses have come out over the last 70 years as if this never occurs. It happens all the time. It's been happening throughout history. Can you remember HIV ? What about mad cows disease ? Have you heard of Ebola ?

I saw Matty Johns shaking hands the other day. We are playing rugby league this weekend. Gyms and restaurants are still open.

I'm honestly okay with all of those steps. I'm just stating that let's accept that this issue is a little bigger than just the CCP. If you think this has all been caused by the CCP fine. ***It's impossible to discuss issues with people that are not logical or rational***.

Thats a pretty high horse you rode in on Earl.

You state you are "trying to have a realistic and rational discussion about the virus" except the people you are trying so valiantly against the odds to discuss this with are "stupid", "illogical" and "Irrational". This is despite the fact that these people that you are discussing it with you have repeatedly made cogent arguments about the choices the CCP made to smother, arrest, detain and destroy evidence rather than act to contain but you continue to ignore it. Despite your continual ignorance of these cogent arguments and unwillingness to address them, neither myself or anyone else has called you names despite you calling us stupid, delusional etc.

Again you explain the hardship you are going through with the stunning ignorance on this thread by those other than yourself and how extreme it has been for you. I will not make a big deal out of the brutal irony that you think Mad Cow Disease is caused by a virus. Stunning and extreme indeed.

Personally, I find it difficult discuss issues with those that are so arrogant that they think they are superior in their intellect and status despite overwhelming evidence to the contrary.

This is all nonsense.

Have you read and watched the links I provided via Bill Gates ? Let's try and talk facts about viruses rather than the CCP. Just coming from this from a different perspective might help some of you.

 

[Tiger5150]

I’m sorry mate. I know there’s a lot of misinformation flying around, but the CCP was playing it down up until the WHO got a hold of the virus for testing.

I'm not doubting this but I just showed a factual flaw in your reasoning. You and others want this to be a China (mainly the CCP) problem. That is ***simplistic and I'm going to state stupid***.
I'm not stating China is perfect. ***I'm trying to have a realistic and rational discussion about the virus***. Sorry the lack of knowledge on this thread has been pretty extreme. I had one poster ask me how many viruses have come out over the last 70 years as if this never occurs. It happens all the time. It's been happening throughout history. Can you remember HIV ? What about mad cows disease ? Have you heard of Ebola ?

I saw Matty Johns shaking hands the other day. We are playing rugby league this weekend. Gyms and restaurants are still open.

I'm honestly okay with all of those steps. I'm just stating that let's accept that this issue is a little bigger than just the CCP. If you think this has all been caused by the CCP fine. ***It's impossible to discuss issues with people that are not logical or rational***.

Thats a pretty high horse you rode in on Earl.

You state you are "trying to have a realistic and rational discussion about the virus" except the people you are trying so valiantly against the odds to discuss this with are "stupid", "illogical" and "Irrational". This is despite the fact that these people that you are discussing it with you have repeatedly made cogent arguments about the choices the CCP made to smother, arrest, detain and destroy evidence rather than act to contain but you continue to ignore it. Despite your continual ignorance of these cogent arguments and unwillingness to address them, neither myself or anyone else has called you names despite you calling us stupid, delusional etc.

Again you explain the hardship you are going through with the stunning ignorance on this thread by those other than yourself and how extreme it has been for you. I will not make a big deal out of the brutal irony that you think Mad Cow Disease is caused by a virus. Stunning and extreme indeed.

Personally, I find it difficult discuss issues with those that are so arrogant that they think they are superior in their intellect and status despite overwhelming evidence to the contrary.

This is all nonsense.

Have you read and wathced the links I provided via Bill Gates ?

How is it nonsense and what has the Bill Gates video got to do with it?

1. Did you call people you are discussing this with stupid and delusional?
2. Did you comment on the lack of knowledge in this thread by others and in the same sentence say that Mad Cow Disease is caused by a virus?
3. Have you at anytime addressed the argument that myself and others here have made that this virus was not contained within Wuhan because of the choice the CCP made to arrest, detain, deny, destroy evidence and allow 5 million to flee?

What would Bill Gates have to do with any of that.

Im done discussing this with you Earl. You will not discuss any of the points raised and then resort to namecalling.

I can also read the tea leaves and I see that by trying to have this discussion with you I am poisoning the pond.

 

[earl]

What would Bill Gates have to do with any of that.

Bill Gates 5 years ago articulated on a Ted video how poorly prepared we are for scenarios like this. He gave us warning and we did absolutely nothing.

You and others just keep hammering the CCP but there is much more to this. It'd be good if you could watch that video and explain why no action was taken at that time.

 

[Tiger5150]

I’m sorry mate. I know there’s a lot of misinformation flying around, but the CCP was playing it down up until the WHO got a hold of the virus for testing.

I'm not doubting this but I just showed a factual flaw in your reasoning. You and others want this to be a China (mainly the CCP) problem. That is ***simplistic and I'm going to state stupid***.
I'm not stating China is perfect. ***I'm trying to have a realistic and rational discussion about the virus***. Sorry the lack of knowledge on this thread has been pretty extreme. I had one poster ask me how many viruses have come out over the last 70 years as if this never occurs. It happens all the time. It's been happening throughout history. Can you remember HIV ? What about mad cows disease ? Have you heard of Ebola ?

I saw Matty Johns shaking hands the other day. We are playing rugby league this weekend. Gyms and restaurants are still open.

I'm honestly okay with all of those steps. I'm just stating that let's accept that this issue is a little bigger than just the CCP. If you think this has all been caused by the CCP fine. ***It's impossible to discuss issues with people that are not logical or rational***.

Thats a pretty high horse you rode in on Earl.

You state you are "trying to have a realistic and rational discussion about the virus" except the people you are trying so valiantly against the odds to discuss this with are "stupid", "illogical" and "Irrational". This is despite the fact that these people that you are discussing it with you have repeatedly made cogent arguments about the choices the CCP made to smother, arrest, detain and destroy evidence rather than act to contain but you continue to ignore it. Despite your continual ignorance of these cogent arguments and unwillingness to address them, neither myself or anyone else has called you names despite you calling us stupid, delusional etc.

Again you explain the hardship you are going through with the stunning ignorance on this thread by those other than yourself and how extreme it has been for you. I will not make a big deal out of the brutal irony that you think Mad Cow Disease is caused by a virus. Stunning and extreme indeed.

Personally, I find it difficult discuss issues with those that are so arrogant that they think they are superior in their intellect and status despite overwhelming evidence to the contrary.

This is all nonsense.

Have you read and watched the links I provided via Bill Gates ? Let's try and talk facts about viruses rather than the CCP. Just coming from this from a different perspective ***might help some of you.***

Oh thank you oh wise one, where would we be without you there to help us.

Again, my comments regarding the CCP were ***a direct response*** to Formerguests question whether we thought the Australian Govt would have handled it better ***than the CCP***. Very difficult to respond to that without "talking CCP".

But thank you again for your magnanimous sharing of your so superior POV.

 

[Tiger5150]

What would Bill Gates have to do with any of that.

Bill Gates 5 years ago articulated on a Ted video how poorly prepared we are for scenarios like this. He gave us warning and we did absolutely nothing.

You and others just keep hammering the CCP but there is much more to this. It'd be good if you could watch that video and explain why no action was taken at that time.

Again Earl you obfuscate when you dont have an answer. I posted a post, with examples and explanations of how arrogant your post and my reticence to discuss with you due to your arrogance and name calling.

You counter that by saying "this is all nonsense" and point to a video of Bill Gates as your source.

Once again, how does a video of Bill Gates talking about the likelihood of a viral outbreak counter my post about your arrogance?

 

[earl]

@Tiger5150 - I am trying to talk rationally. You are using ad-hominen attacks and you aren't discussing the facts.

Please try and respond with facts. Just explain to me why no action was taken when Bill Gates was articulating that this was something that could easily occur. Why weren't more actions taken. Should we have taken those actions.

Try and talk about the virus rather than the CCP or whatever it is that you are going on about because I'm not playing that game.

I'm happy to discuss the issue but it'd be much easier if you weren't so hell bent on having this simplistic belief that the CCP is to blame for all of this.

 

[Tiger5150]

@Tiger5150 - I am trying to talk rationally. You are using ad-hominen attacks and you aren't discussing the facts.

Please try and respond with facts. Just explain to me why no action was taken when Bill Gates was articulating that this was something that could easily occur. Why weren't more actions taken. Should we have taken those actions.

Try and talk about the virus rather than the CCP or whatever it is that you are going on about because I'm not playing that game.

Earl, we are done. By now you MUST be trolling.

You call me and others stupid, delusional, illogical and irrational despite the fact that in all of this discussion none of the rest of us have called you names.

I make a post calling you out for your name calling and thinking your knowledge is superior despite clear evidence to the contrary and MY post was ad-hominem? What is calling me and others stupid and delusional?

I have explained to you a number of times that I am not going on about the CCP, it was a response to Formerguests post.

I have provided plenty of FACTS about the lack of containment and you ignore the ones that dont suit your agenda.

I dont have an agenda, I'm not playing a game. I am also no longer interacting with you on this topic because due to your arrogance, faux superiority, ignorance, name calling and refusal to address facts when provided, i no longer have respect for your opinion and couldnt give a rats what you think.

Enjoy discussing the topic, you have now reached the point that you no longer require me or anyone else to do so.

 

[Tim Sheens]

As for China's leadership, it would be fair to say basically every single person educated here understands their role in continuing suppression and authoritarian rule. Furthermore, most everyone now living in our nation would also be aware of their role in relation to this virus outbreak, as it has been reported across the media platforms.

 

[Tiger5150]

As for China's leadership, it would be fair to say basically every single person educated here understands their role in continuing suppression and authoritarian rule. Furthermore, most everyone now living in our nation would also be aware of their role in relation to this virus outbreak, as it has been reported across the media platforms.

Agreed, though whilst the schools remain open it is hard to argue.

Personally I dont think the schools issue is as cut and dried as it may appear. Schools are closed and the kids are roaming the streets or at home with Mum or Dad not being able to work. May not provide much of an infection benefit for a VERY big economic cost.

 

[Tweed_Tiger]

Looks like neighbor might have it. Just got back from Brisbane and had very close contact with someone who tested now positive and is feeling sick. Apparently he will know in a couple days?

 

[Tim Sheens]

As for China's leadership, it would be fair to say basically every single person educated here understands their role in continuing suppression and authoritarian rule. Furthermore, most everyone now living in our nation would also be aware of their role in relation to this virus outbreak, as it has been reported across the media platforms.

Agreed, though whilst the schools remain open it is hard to argue.


Personally I dont think the schools issue is as cut and dried as it may appear. Schools are closed and the kids are roaming the streets or at home with Mum or Dad not being able to work. May not provide much of an infection benefit for a VERY big economic cost.

That school line was meant to be in reply to @HappyTiger about the 18th birthday parties and I expect that I forgot to post the earlier paragraph, or some glitch was responsible for it attaching.