Coronavirus Outbreak

[Tiger5150]

I agree with @cochise with the public shaming of the two girls, it does seem over the top and mob mentality however I think it is part of a bigger issue.

I could be totally wrong about this, but its my gut feel on this one.

Premier Anastacia has IMO been disgraceful lately with her smug arrogant pontificating and pointing her finger at NSW when we have only had less than 100 cases (now over 200) and parading about the Qld being COVID free. All the while it was obvious that at some stage it would return there. IMO he arrogant stance has been 100% political and geared towards getting re-elected.

Now it suits her and this arrogant narrative to turn these girls into public pariahs (they are queenslanders) because then its not Anastasias fault, its the fault of the "bad girls".

Ive been wrong before but its the vibe.

"because then its not Anastasias fault, its the fault of the “bad girls”." Well, it is absolutely the girls fault. You may not like her as a politician, but it's not her fault that a bunch of morons lied about having been in Victoria and then brought covid with them to Queensland. And then when they were caught out, continued to refuse to cooperate with police for some time.

I agree with you 100% however my point has more been her smug arrogance over the last few weeks went it was always going to happen at some stage.

Anyway, as I said, I could be wrong, just my vibe.

 

[TillLindemann]

I agree with @cochise with the public shaming of the two girls, it does seem over the top and mob mentality however I think it is part of a bigger issue.

I could be totally wrong about this, but its my gut feel on this one.

Premier Anastacia has IMO been disgraceful lately with her smug arrogant pontificating and pointing her finger at NSW when we have only had less than 100 cases (now over 200) and parading about the Qld being COVID free. All the while it was obvious that at some stage it would return there. IMO he arrogant stance has been 100% political and geared towards getting re-elected.

Now it suits her and this arrogant narrative to turn these girls into public pariahs (they are queenslanders) because then its not Anastasias fault, its the fault of the "bad girls".

Ive been wrong before but its the vibe.

"because then its not Anastasias fault, its the fault of the “bad girls”." Well, it is absolutely the girls fault. You may not like her as a politician, but it's not her fault that a bunch of morons lied about having been in Victoria and then brought covid with them to Queensland. And then when they were caught out, continued to refuse to cooperate with police for some time.


I agree with you 100% however my point has more been her smug arrogance over the last few weeks went it was always going to happen at some stage.

Anyway, as I said, I could be wrong, just my vibe.

Yeah fair enough, I don't really follow Quennsland politics but no doubt you're right about the smugness.

 

[cochise]

I agree with @cochise with the public shaming of the two girls, it does seem over the top and mob mentality however I think it is part of a bigger issue.

I could be totally wrong about this, but its my gut feel on this one.

Premier Anastacia has IMO been disgraceful lately with her smug arrogant pontificating and pointing her finger at NSW when we have only had less than 100 cases (now over 200) and parading about the Qld being COVID free. All the while it was obvious that at some stage it would return there. IMO he arrogant stance has been 100% political and geared towards getting re-elected.

Now it suits her and this arrogant narrative to turn these girls into public pariahs (they are queenslanders) because then its not Anastasias fault, its the fault of the "bad girls".

Ive been wrong before but its the vibe.

Not 100%, but certainly geared towards it.

On the flip side, the coalition need to call off the Victoria attack dogs, as it has been long running since the open up campaign, then anti mask and is extremely counter-productive.


If/when things get back under control in Vic and taking all of the politicisation out of it (forget BLM Protests) there does need to be a thorough independent investigation into what the hell went wrong in Victoria, how it erupted again and what went wrong for it to explode like it did.

Not for political grandstanding or finger pointing but to get to the bottom of it to prevent it happening again in the other states.

Certainly. Just as in the aged sector, we/they just need to know where things went wrong, not for recrimination purposes regarding policy, rather to enable effective change to halt future developments. I suppose we are lucky in one way, as through advances the mortality rate is probably at about half it would have been had this struck in April.

Spot on, same with finding out what happened with the Ruby Princess.

 

[TillLindemann]

I'm holding judgement on the two girls from Queensland because as @cochise points out, everyone in society has the right to something other than the court of public opinion.

The bigger issue at play here is paid pandemic leave.

Such payments relating to those virtually forced to break lockdown were in the other half of my initial post that also included public shaming, but only the shaming part from which they should be exempted gained traction for discussion.

Sorry probably my fault.

I think I also jumped in without reading several prior posts

 

[Tiger5150]

I agree with @cochise with the public shaming of the two girls, it does seem over the top and mob mentality however I think it is part of a bigger issue.

I could be totally wrong about this, but its my gut feel on this one.

Premier Anastacia has IMO been disgraceful lately with her smug arrogant pontificating and pointing her finger at NSW when we have only had less than 100 cases (now over 200) and parading about the Qld being COVID free. All the while it was obvious that at some stage it would return there. IMO he arrogant stance has been 100% political and geared towards getting re-elected.

Now it suits her and this arrogant narrative to turn these girls into public pariahs (they are queenslanders) because then its not Anastasias fault, its the fault of the "bad girls".

Ive been wrong before but its the vibe.

Not 100%, but certainly geared towards it.

On the flip side, the coalition need to call off the Victoria attack dogs, as it has been long running since the open up campaign, then anti mask and is extremely counter-productive.


If/when things get back under control in Vic and taking all of the politicisation out of it (forget BLM Protests) there does need to be a thorough independent investigation into what the hell went wrong in Victoria, how it erupted again and what went wrong for it to explode like it did.

Not for political grandstanding or finger pointing but to get to the bottom of it to prevent it happening again in the other states.

Certainly. Just as in the aged sector, we/they just need to know where things went wrong, not for recrimination purposes regarding policy, rather to enable effective change to halt future developments. I suppose we are lucky in one way, as through advances the mortality rate is probably at about half it would have been had this struck in April.

Spot on, same with finding out what happened with the Ruby Princess.

I agree that they need to find out what went wrong with the Ruby Princess, but IMO there is massive difference between the two, specifically because our knowledge about the virus, what works and doesnt is orders of magnitude higher now than during the RP situation.

Mistakes were clearly made with the RP but everyone was a lot more naive about the virus back then than we are now.

 

[cochise]

I agree with @cochise with the public shaming of the two girls, it does seem over the top and mob mentality however I think it is part of a bigger issue.

I could be totally wrong about this, but its my gut feel on this one.

Premier Anastacia has IMO been disgraceful lately with her smug arrogant pontificating and pointing her finger at NSW when we have only had less than 100 cases (now over 200) and parading about the Qld being COVID free. All the while it was obvious that at some stage it would return there. IMO he arrogant stance has been 100% political and geared towards getting re-elected.

Now it suits her and this arrogant narrative to turn these girls into public pariahs (they are queenslanders) because then its not Anastasias fault, its the fault of the "bad girls".

Ive been wrong before but its the vibe.

Not 100%, but certainly geared towards it.

On the flip side, the coalition need to call off the Victoria attack dogs, as it has been long running since the open up campaign, then anti mask and is extremely counter-productive.


If/when things get back under control in Vic and taking all of the politicisation out of it (forget BLM Protests) there does need to be a thorough independent investigation into what the hell went wrong in Victoria, how it erupted again and what went wrong for it to explode like it did.

Not for political grandstanding or finger pointing but to get to the bottom of it to prevent it happening again in the other states.

Certainly. Just as in the aged sector, we/they just need to know where things went wrong, not for recrimination purposes regarding policy, rather to enable effective change to halt future developments. I suppose we are lucky in one way, as through advances the mortality rate is probably at about half it would have been had this struck in April.

Spot on, same with finding out what happened with the Ruby Princess.


I agree that they need to find out what went wrong with the Ruby Princess, but IMO there is massive difference between the two, specifically because our knowledge about the virus, what works and doesnt is orders of magnitude higher now than during the RP situation.

Mistakes were clearly made with the RP but everyone was a lot more naive about the virus back then than we are now.

But that naivety is part of the reason to find out what went wrong, to learn from it. Victoria seems to have more of people knowing they were doing something wrong feel to it than the RP though.

 

[TillLindemann]

I find it interesting how some countries can experience it very differently. In India it really snowballed in the last month to now (I think) the third highest number of cases in the world, from a very low base. Across the border in Pakistan, it showed signs of doing the same, but then surprisingly pulled back and dropped off.

In Mexico, week after week you see very high deaths (now 3rd highest number of deaths after the US and Brazil). But it sort of chugs along at this rate, without going exponential, or without dropping off.

Same goes for Saudi Arabia. It sort of chugs along at 2,000 infections per day. Doesn't really increase exponentially, but doesn't really drop off either.

But then in other countries you see a sharp spike for a few weeks, before it drops right off again.

 

[tigger]

I'm holding judgement on the two girls from Queensland because as @cochise points out, everyone in society has the right to something other than the court of public opinion.

The bigger issue at play here is paid pandemic leave.

Such payments relating to those virtually forced to break lockdown were in the other half of my initial post that also included public shaming, but only the shaming part from which they should be exempted gained traction for discussion.

Sorry probably my fault.

Yeah. My fault too. Sorry

 

[Harvey]

I'm holding judgement on the two girls from Queensland because as @cochise points out, everyone in society has the right to something other than the court of public opinion.

The bigger issue at play here is paid pandemic leave.

I don't think that these can be judged as the same thing on a scale. One (pandemic leave) involves people going to work to earn an income so they can support themselves and possibly their family. The 2nd are a couple of self indulgent brats who have no thought for anyone else or the consequences of their actions.

 

[Harvey]

I'm holding judgement on the two girls from Queensland because as @cochise points out, everyone in society has the right to something other than the court of public opinion.

The bigger issue at play here is paid pandemic leave.

You have no problem with the GST going up to 15% to pay for all of this .. someone will have to pay !

No, look at it realistically and it is plain as day a beneficial cost saving measure to begin with and simply remove the latest round of tax cuts for a start when looking at how to pay for things.

Edit; wasn't having a go above in any way @cochise, just pointing to the lack of payment likely being a very important factor of the spread and separation of offenders.

Agree fully, I know that the Vic lockdown will hopefully be over before Jobkeeper is reduced, but those businesses are not be going to be moving again by the end of September. So along with pandemic leave being brought in, the jobkeeper and jobseeker payment reduction should be pushed back in Victoria.

What is covered under pandemic leave and how is it judged? Does it have to have a worldwide spread? A certain percentage of the population infected? Does it have to be deadly or can the common cold fall under it? As per previous discussions the flu is deadly to a number of people each year, is that covered.

None of these parameters should even need to be covered. They are all covered under sick leave entitlements, which most employees had until the deliberate casualisation of the workforce to strip employee entitlements.

 

[diedpretty]

670 odd new cases and 7 more deaths. The Health system will not be able to cope. I feel sorry for the medical staff having to deal with this tsunami.

I just wish there was a bit more clarification when the figures are announced each day i.e. 670 new cases of which 7 required medical attention. 7 more deaths - 5 from aged care facility and 2 with underlying medical condition. Just banging out the number of cases each day just feeds the media frenzy.

 

[cochise]

I'm holding judgement on the two girls from Queensland because as @cochise points out, everyone in society has the right to something other than the court of public opinion.

The bigger issue at play here is paid pandemic leave.

You have no problem with the GST going up to 15% to pay for all of this .. someone will have to pay !

No, look at it realistically and it is plain as day a beneficial cost saving measure to begin with and simply remove the latest round of tax cuts for a start when looking at how to pay for things.

Edit; wasn't having a go above in any way @cochise, just pointing to the lack of payment likely being a very important factor of the spread and separation of offenders.

Agree fully, I know that the Vic lockdown will hopefully be over before Jobkeeper is reduced, but those businesses are not be going to be moving again by the end of September. So along with pandemic leave being brought in, the jobkeeper and jobseeker payment reduction should be pushed back in Victoria.

What is covered under pandemic leave and how is it judged? Does it have to have a worldwide spread? A certain percentage of the population infected? Does it have to be deadly or can the common cold fall under it? As per previous discussions the flu is deadly to a number of people each year, is that covered.

None of these parameters should even need to be covered. They are all covered under sick leave entitlements, which most employees had until the deliberate casualisation of the workforce to strip employee entitlements.

It's what we do when we are forcing people to stay in their homes, that is not covered by sick leave as you are not sick. If we are telling people they need to self quarantine, then to ensure there is no excuses we can not leave them in a position to not be able to survive financially.

 

[cochise]

670 odd new cases and 7 more deaths. The Health system will not be able to cope. I feel sorry for the medical staff having to deal with this tsunami.

I just wish there was a bit more clarification when the figures are announced each day i.e. 670 new cases of which 7 required medical attention. 7 more deaths - 5 from aged care facility and 2 with underlying medical condition. Just banging out the number of cases each day just feeds the media frenzy.

They do that everyday?

 

[Harvey]

I'm holding judgement on the two girls from Queensland because as @cochise points out, everyone in society has the right to something other than the court of public opinion.

The bigger issue at play here is paid pandemic leave.

You have no problem with the GST going up to 15% to pay for all of this .. someone will have to pay !

No, look at it realistically and it is plain as day a beneficial cost saving measure to begin with and simply remove the latest round of tax cuts for a start when looking at how to pay for things.

Edit; wasn't having a go above in any way @cochise, just pointing to the lack of payment likely being a very important factor of the spread and separation of offenders.

Agree fully, I know that the Vic lockdown will hopefully be over before Jobkeeper is reduced, but those businesses are not be going to be moving again by the end of September. So along with pandemic leave being brought in, the jobkeeper and jobseeker payment reduction should be pushed back in Victoria.

What is covered under pandemic leave and how is it judged? Does it have to have a worldwide spread? A certain percentage of the population infected? Does it have to be deadly or can the common cold fall under it? As per previous discussions the flu is deadly to a number of people each year, is that covered.

None of these parameters should even need to be covered. They are all covered under sick leave entitlements, which most employees had until the deliberate casualisation of the workforce to strip employee entitlements.

It's what we do when we are forcing people to stay in their homes, that is not covered by sick leave as you are not sick. If we are telling people they need to self quarantine, then to ensure there is no excuses we can not leave them in a position to not be able to survive financially.

Isolation/quarantine is one thing, but significant numbers of residents in (multiple) aged care facilities suggest that an employee has been turning up sick.

 

[cochise]

I'm holding judgement on the two girls from Queensland because as @cochise points out, everyone in society has the right to something other than the court of public opinion.

The bigger issue at play here is paid pandemic leave.

You have no problem with the GST going up to 15% to pay for all of this .. someone will have to pay !

No, look at it realistically and it is plain as day a beneficial cost saving measure to begin with and simply remove the latest round of tax cuts for a start when looking at how to pay for things.

Edit; wasn't having a go above in any way @cochise, just pointing to the lack of payment likely being a very important factor of the spread and separation of offenders.

Agree fully, I know that the Vic lockdown will hopefully be over before Jobkeeper is reduced, but those businesses are not be going to be moving again by the end of September. So along with pandemic leave being brought in, the jobkeeper and jobseeker payment reduction should be pushed back in Victoria.

What is covered under pandemic leave and how is it judged? Does it have to have a worldwide spread? A certain percentage of the population infected? Does it have to be deadly or can the common cold fall under it? As per previous discussions the flu is deadly to a number of people each year, is that covered.

None of these parameters should even need to be covered. They are all covered under sick leave entitlements, which most employees had until the deliberate casualisation of the workforce to strip employee entitlements.

It's what we do when we are forcing people to stay in their homes, that is not covered by sick leave as you are not sick. If we are telling people they need to self quarantine, then to ensure there is no excuses we can not leave them in a position to not be able to survive financially.


Isolation/quarantine is one thing, but significant numbers of residents in (multiple) aged care facilities suggest that an employee has been turning up sick.

Of course they have, they are a casual work force, once people lose money to stay home, someone want be able to afford to do so.

 

[trentrunciman]

I find it interesting how some countries can experience it very differently. In India it really snowballed in the last month to now (I think) the third highest number of cases in the world, from a very low base. Across the border in Pakistan, it showed signs of doing the same, but then surprisingly pulled back and dropped off.

In Mexico, week after week you see very high deaths (now 3rd highest number of deaths after the US and Brazil). But it sort of chugs along at this rate, without going exponential, or without dropping off.

Same goes for Saudi Arabia. It sort of chugs along at 2,000 infections per day. Doesn't really increase exponentially, but doesn't really drop off either.

But then in other countries you see a sharp spike for a few weeks, before it drops right off again.

lucky we aren't in the states.

My best mate just went back to the aussie embassey in hanoi for DFAT and he says its fine over there.

 

[cochise]

I find it interesting how some countries can experience it very differently. In India it really snowballed in the last month to now (I think) the third highest number of cases in the world, from a very low base. Across the border in Pakistan, it showed signs of doing the same, but then surprisingly pulled back and dropped off.

In Mexico, week after week you see very high deaths (now 3rd highest number of deaths after the US and Brazil). But it sort of chugs along at this rate, without going exponential, or without dropping off.

Same goes for Saudi Arabia. It sort of chugs along at 2,000 infections per day. Doesn't really increase exponentially, but doesn't really drop off either.

But then in other countries you see a sharp spike for a few weeks, before it drops right off again.

I think it comes down to some many factor that contribute to the impact it has in a country. Testing, health system, politics, religion culture all come into the response to this that no 2 countries are ever the same. You can draw a pretty good line through the impacts on the US, Australia and NZ that show how similar countries have had vastly different responses and outcome and how all of the above played into those outcomes.

 

[mike]

#wearinthistogether

Mask yourself.
Simple.

Afraid, not so simple

 

[Rugba]

Victorian restrictions just announced, extremely tough.

There will be a night time curfew will be implemented across Melbourne from 8:00pm to 5:00am from tonight.

Melbourne residents will only be allowed to shop and exercise within 5km of their home.

All students across the state will return to home-based learning. Childcare will be closed.

Takeaway is allowed to be continued.

Regional Victoria will move to stage 3 restrictions from Thursday.

Good, though tough on whole because of the selfish few. They need to consider public shaming of the worst and/or serial lockdown offenders and passing stiffer penalties.

I don't like public shaming.

Not a fan of it either, though if you are a serial offender at endangering life in a pandemic, you have lost the right to privacy.

Conversely, if one of those that have been left out of what should have been universal federal living payments, then their case rather than their name should be made public. I understand that there are supposed long overdue changes to this area that were called for back in March.

While I total condemn the behaviour of the 2 girls in Queensland who brought Covid back to that state, I feel the public outing and attack on those girls to be wrong. I have no problem with severe penalties against them but it turned into much more than that. Those 2 girls are 19 and I don't like the way they are being attacked online and it actually creates are situation that puts them at risk of violence.

Yes i agree, I haven’t seen or heard the Victorian truck driver, who brought it into NSW when he visited the Crossroads Hotel cop as much flak. Young women are easy targets for vile internet trolls.

The difference is the truckie didn't hide anything, and cooperated with authorities about everywhere he'd been (correct me if I'm wrong).

I don't think it's targeting women either - Latrell and JAC were splashed all over the news, weren't they, for something that was dumb, but not on the same level.

I tend to oppose public shaming when it's for someone having 'incorrect' or unpopular opinions, beliefs etc, 'moral issues' and so on. But for actual crimes, I don't see why someone's identity should be hidden.

And if shaming acts as a deterrent to John Citizen recklessly infecting and killing an innocent 80 year old, well, it's served a purpose.

What if it acts as an ignition for someone to take matters into their own hands, what if the reports are wrong, I guess we are no longer innocent until proven guilty in this country?

Dude the whole word operated this way we are all guilty. Don’t you read twitter and editorials
We are environmental vandals , msigynists , racists , first thing they mentioned when we had lockdowns was increase in domestic violence like all me were itching to do DV behind closed doors .
All I know is as white male , I’m guilty of all and any offences and I’m the evil of the world and it’s ills . So back to your point everyone is guilty until proven innocent ( ask jack de Belin about justice , 2 years he can’t ply his trade and he hasn’t gone to court yet )

 

[Rugba]

Victorian restrictions just announced, extremely tough.

There will be a night time curfew will be implemented across Melbourne from 8:00pm to 5:00am from tonight.

Melbourne residents will only be allowed to shop and exercise within 5km of their home.

All students across the state will return to home-based learning. Childcare will be closed.

Takeaway is allowed to be continued.

Regional Victoria will move to stage 3 restrictions from Thursday.

Good, though tough on whole because of the selfish few. They need to consider public shaming of the worst and/or serial lockdown offenders and passing stiffer penalties.

I don't like public shaming.

Not a fan of it either, though if you are a serial offender at endangering life in a pandemic, you have lost the right to privacy.

Conversely, if one of those that have been left out of what should have been universal federal living payments, then their case rather than their name should be made public. I understand that there are supposed long overdue changes to this area that were called for back in March.

While I total condemn the behaviour of the 2 girls in Queensland who brought Covid back to that state, I feel the public outing and attack on those girls to be wrong. I have no problem with severe penalties against them but it turned into much more than that. Those 2 girls are 19 and I don't like the way they are being attacked online and it actually creates are situation that puts them at risk of violence.

Yes i agree, I haven’t seen or heard the Victorian truck driver, who brought it into NSW when he visited the Crossroads Hotel cop as much flak. Young women are easy targets for vile internet trolls.

The difference is the truckie didn't hide anything, and cooperated with authorities about everywhere he'd been (correct me if I'm wrong).

I don't think it's targeting women either - Latrell and JAC were splashed all over the news, weren't they, for something that was dumb, but not on the same level.

I tend to oppose public shaming when it's for someone having 'incorrect' or unpopular opinions, beliefs etc, 'moral issues' and so on. But for actual crimes, I don't see why someone's identity should be hidden.

And if shaming acts as a deterrent to John Citizen recklessly infecting and killing an innocent 80 year old, well, it's served a purpose.

But are we talking here about the media reporting on something and naming the individuals involved or are we talking about the punishment of public shaming.

the initial post on this aspect was that the punishment for those who flout coronavirus restrictions should be public shaming. That is, that the authorities should publicly name and shame them.

that's different to the media just reporting on high profile cases.

These girls have also been judged, condemned and punished by the public before they have had the right to defend themselves. That is not right.

As per my earlier post referring it to rugby league , jack de bellin or even better josh Reynolds was considered “guilty” by many even on this site when that little clip made its rounds .
Again I have no sympathy for anyone doing the wrong thing during this pandemic , there has been so much coverage of it , you have to be a truly selfish person to put others at risk