Coronavirus Outbreak

[mike]

How on earth can any Australian be considered as jumping anything to get back in their country!

Make . no mistake, the reason ministers and the like are out spruiking defence etcetera at the moment is to take the minds of the fringe amongst their base off their failures in aged care, vaccines, quarantine and the like.

Mate , many of the people returning home had ample opportunity to do so , before things got out of hand . Many more , got on the next available 18 months ago . I understand what your saying , but there had to be accountability for what each individual does . For those where the opportunities didn’t arise to return home earlier , I feel for them . That sux . But it’s no different from WA people being trapped in NSW , which I met a few , or all of us being locked down , not able to visit family at Christmas .

I actually tend to agree with you on that subject .....many initially decided they would come back to Australian when it suited them and ignored the calls from our foreign embassy and our government ...then when it did suit to leave their country of choice when it all got real they got their noses out of joint when they couldn't do it when it suited them

It’s not just them . It’s anyone who booked a holiday in the last year , or a cruise , or said “it’s a hoax” to justify ignoring general etiquette. I know of someone’s parents who went on holidays recently and are now stuck , bemoaning exactly what mike is about our evil government. (Not saying you’re in agreement with these @mike, just that the message is the same) .

Like I said before it reeks of entitlement and selfishness .

In that case it should be simple ...you sign a waiver understanding that the risk is there that you mightn't get back

Many of the people that have left Australia during the pandemic did exactly that. Those people are not the concern it’s the citizens that through no fault of their own have been left stranded and abandoned.

But did many of those decide to stay on after been told by the govt / embassy to leave NOW ..that's my issue

Too many people these days think rules don't apply to them ...they'll do what they want ..when they want

Like I said in a previous post, many of them have been trying to get home for a long time. Countries got locked down and they couldn’t. Airlines took their money and keep canceling flights. What are they supposed todo with no help from the Australian Government? Then the Australian Government wants to punish them when they try alternative avenues to get home. Disgraceful.

Govt's don't control the airlines ...and as I keep asking ...did these people try and get out when the were told to get out

Because I've usually found in life ...when you listen to the authorities things are ok

When you don't ...poo happens ...and don't whinge when the poo hits the fan when you didn't listen ......

Many of them have been trying to get back for a long time. The Australian Government could do heaps. Charter flights, use RAAF transports, to name a couple, but instead they have completely abandoned their obligations to Australian Citizens trapped overseas.

 

[happy_tiger]

How on earth can any Australian be considered as jumping anything to get back in their country!

Make . no mistake, the reason ministers and the like are out spruiking defence etcetera at the moment is to take the minds of the fringe amongst their base off their failures in aged care, vaccines, quarantine and the like.

Mate , many of the people returning home had ample opportunity to do so , before things got out of hand . Many more , got on the next available 18 months ago . I understand what your saying , but there had to be accountability for what each individual does . For those where the opportunities didn’t arise to return home earlier , I feel for them . That sux . But it’s no different from WA people being trapped in NSW , which I met a few , or all of us being locked down , not able to visit family at Christmas .

I actually tend to agree with you on that subject .....many initially decided they would come back to Australian when it suited them and ignored the calls from our foreign embassy and our government ...then when it did suit to leave their country of choice when it all got real they got their noses out of joint when they couldn't do it when it suited them

It’s not just them . It’s anyone who booked a holiday in the last year , or a cruise , or said “it’s a hoax” to justify ignoring general etiquette. I know of someone’s parents who went on holidays recently and are now stuck , bemoaning exactly what mike is about our evil government. (Not saying you’re in agreement with these @mike, just that the message is the same) .

Like I said before it reeks of entitlement and selfishness .

In that case it should be simple ...you sign a waiver understanding that the risk is there that you mightn't get back

Many of the people that have left Australia during the pandemic did exactly that. Those people are not the concern it’s the citizens that through no fault of their own have been left stranded and abandoned.

But did many of those decide to stay on after been told by the govt / embassy to leave NOW ..that's my issue

Too many people these days think rules don't apply to them ...they'll do what they want ..when they want

Like I said in a previous post, many of them have been trying to get home for a long time. Countries got locked down and they couldn’t. Airlines took their money and keep canceling flights. What are they supposed todo with no help from the Australian Government? Then the Australian Government wants to punish them when they try alternative avenues to get home. Disgraceful.

Govt's don't control the airlines ...and as I keep asking ...did these people try and get out when the were told to get out

Because I've usually found in life ...when you listen to the authorities things are ok

When you don't ...poo happens ...and don't whinge when the poo hits the fan when you didn't listen ......

Many of them have been trying to get back for a long time. The Australian Government could do heaps. Charter flights, use RAAF transports, to name a couple, but instead they have completely abandoned their obligations to Australian Citizens trapped overseas.

I'm going to guess seeing that your ignoring the question I'm asking ...that they didn't listen

 

[Deleted member 3518]

How on earth can any Australian be considered as jumping anything to get back in their country!

Make . no mistake, the reason ministers and the like are out spruiking defence etcetera at the moment is to take the minds of the fringe amongst their base off their failures in aged care, vaccines, quarantine and the like.

Mate , many of the people returning home had ample opportunity to do so , before things got out of hand . Many more , got on the next available 18 months ago . I understand what your saying , but there had to be accountability for what each individual does . For those where the opportunities didn’t arise to return home earlier , I feel for them . That sux . But it’s no different from WA people being trapped in NSW , which I met a few , or all of us being locked down , not able to visit family at Christmas .

I actually tend to agree with you on that subject .....many initially decided they would come back to Australian when it suited them and ignored the calls from our foreign embassy and our government ...then when it did suit to leave their country of choice when it all got real they got their noses out of joint when they couldn't do it when it suited them

It’s not just them . It’s anyone who booked a holiday in the last year , or a cruise , or said “it’s a hoax” to justify ignoring general etiquette. I know of someone’s parents who went on holidays recently and are now stuck , bemoaning exactly what mike is about our evil government. (Not saying you’re in agreement with these @mike, just that the message is the same) .

Like I said before it reeks of entitlement and selfishness .

In that case it should be simple ...you sign a waiver understanding that the risk is there that you mightn't get back

Many of the people that have left Australia during the pandemic did exactly that. Those people are not the concern it’s the citizens that through no fault of their own have been left stranded and abandoned.

Look man , this has already been answered to . If you’re not going to listen to sense , about the individuals responses to what was asked of them , then I guess we need to agree to disagree .

 

[Tiger5150]

Today I am ashamed to be called an Australian. As the Indian medical system collapses, The Australian Government has proposed to gaol people who travel back to Australia from nominated Red Zones via a secondary country.

I believe instead of this, the Australia should be sending planes over, QANTAS, RAAF, Private Jets, anything they can get their hands on, I don’t care, to get as many Australian home from these Red Zones as soon as possible. They can spend three weeks in quarantine upon return to protect the Australian community here. Even use remote locations if they are overly concerned of outbreaks.

Additionally the Australian Government should be sending supplies, medical equipment, oxygen and whatever the Indian medical system needs ASAP. Instead of the inadequate response so far. We should be doing everything we can in our power to help India out of the terrible predicament they are in.

This is an absolute disgrace.

Sorry . ? disagree . We have to be vigilant , and maintain our high standards in the face of adversity . We need to protect the people that are here , which means upholding existing protocols , especially because the Indian strain could be introducing a huge amount of hurt to the Australian population.

I highly doubt we arnt offering aid to them , but we can’t flush the baby with the bath water . It sounds cold , and inhumane , but Australians leaders first and primary mandate is to keep Australians safe .
Which means vetting and quarantining all who come home , in due course . Otherwise , all the good work we’ve done over the last 18 months will be brought undone .

Once we get our population vaccinated , then we can begin to relax , but doing what you suggest , shows complacency IMO , and we are so close to the finish line .

Not at all being complacent. They still need to go into Quarantine. I’m suggesting 3 weeks not 2. I’m not suggesting they be allowed directly into community. They can put the high risk in the NT facilities, that will protect the population here.

To propose gaol for Australians trying to get home anyway they can is a disgrace and disgusting. We should be doing everything we can to get them safely home ASAP.

I dont totally disagree with the sentiment of what you are saying, but this has been going on for 14 months now. WHy are Aussie in India? Aussie that were in India in March last year were told to get home then if they expected Govt support and they have had 14months to do so. Any Aussies that have left for India since then have known the repurcussions.

There is a place for personal responsibility and it isnt the Govt job to bail every human out of trouble. Ive told this story recently but a very close friend of mine had to travel back to Hungary to try to see his dad before he passed away (he didnt make it) and to sort out the affairs after he passed. When he left the Govt made him sign an affidavit that he would not seek to come back for a minimum of 3 months and he expects it to take him 6 to 12 months to get back and a lot of $$$$. He took on that responsibility. Hungary are not handling the virus well and he and everyone involved knew that going in. The same case with India.

 

[mike]

How on earth can any Australian be considered as jumping anything to get back in their country!

Make . no mistake, the reason ministers and the like are out spruiking defence etcetera at the moment is to take the minds of the fringe amongst their base off their failures in aged care, vaccines, quarantine and the like.

Mate , many of the people returning home had ample opportunity to do so , before things got out of hand . Many more , got on the next available 18 months ago . I understand what your saying , but there had to be accountability for what each individual does . For those where the opportunities didn’t arise to return home earlier , I feel for them . That sux . But it’s no different from WA people being trapped in NSW , which I met a few , or all of us being locked down , not able to visit family at Christmas .

I actually tend to agree with you on that subject .....many initially decided they would come back to Australian when it suited them and ignored the calls from our foreign embassy and our government ...then when it did suit to leave their country of choice when it all got real they got their noses out of joint when they couldn't do it when it suited them

It’s not just them . It’s anyone who booked a holiday in the last year , or a cruise , or said “it’s a hoax” to justify ignoring general etiquette. I know of someone’s parents who went on holidays recently and are now stuck , bemoaning exactly what mike is about our evil government. (Not saying you’re in agreement with these @mike, just that the message is the same) .

Like I said before it reeks of entitlement and selfishness .

In that case it should be simple ...you sign a waiver understanding that the risk is there that you mightn't get back

Many of the people that have left Australia during the pandemic did exactly that. Those people are not the concern it’s the citizens that through no fault of their own have been left stranded and abandoned.

Look man , this has already been answered to . If you’re not going to listen to sense , about the individuals responses to what was asked of them , then I guess we need to agree to disagree .

We absolutely disagree. I'll listen when people have something constructive to say.

The Australian Government's stance on this is disgusting.

I hope those Australian's of Indian decent don't forget how they have been abandoned by this incompetent Federal Government.

 

[Tiger5150]

Today I am ashamed to be called an Australian. As the Indian medical system collapses, The Australian Government has proposed to gaol people who travel back to Australia from nominated Red Zones via a secondary country.

I believe instead of this, the Australia should be sending planes over, QANTAS, RAAF, Private Jets, anything they can get their hands on, I don’t care, to get as many Australian home from these Red Zones as soon as possible. They can spend three weeks in quarantine upon return to protect the Australian community here. Even use remote locations if they are overly concerned of outbreaks.

Additionally the Australian Government should be sending supplies, medical equipment, oxygen and whatever the Indian medical system needs ASAP. Instead of the inadequate response so far. We should be doing everything we can in our power to help India out of the terrible predicament they are in.

This is an absolute disgrace.

Sorry . ? disagree . We have to be vigilant , and maintain our high standards in the face of adversity . We need to protect the people that are here , which means upholding existing protocols , especially because the Indian strain could be introducing a huge amount of hurt to the Australian population.

I highly doubt we arnt offering aid to them , but we can’t flush the baby with the bath water . It sounds cold , and inhumane , but Australians leaders first and primary mandate is to keep Australians safe .
Which means vetting and quarantining all who come home , in due course . Otherwise , all the good work we’ve done over the last 18 months will be brought undone .

Once we get our population vaccinated , then we can begin to relax , but doing what you suggest , shows complacency IMO , and we are so close to the finish line .

Not at all being complacent. They still need to go into Quarantine. I’m suggesting 3 weeks not 2. I’m not suggesting they be allowed directly into community. They can put the high risk in the NT facilities, that will protect the population here.

To propose gaol for Australians trying to get home anyway they can is a disgrace and disgusting. We should be doing everything we can to get them safely home ASAP.

I’d say the Gaol is just about queue jumping , and a scare tactic . If they could safely increase the volume of people returning to manage any spread , I’m sure they will. But in all seriousness , whole hotels are dedicated now , to just being predominantly quarantine zones , and I’d say that they’re chosen by how well they can enforce a lockdown , and as such are limited by the amount of beds and rooms they can provide . As far as I understood it , you can’t just check into a random Best Western .
I understand your sentiment , but you can’t save everyone , and I personally would not be happy if the government put the lives of many in this country at risk , to save the few. It’s cold , yea maybe , but it’s the right choice .

It’s akin to being on a flight , and the the oxygen masks fall. Your first priority is to fit your own , as your no help to anyone incapacitated.
If we relax the protocols we could be incapacitated, and then we arnt letting anyone in .

I do hate the fact that there are Australians that can't come home, I never thought I would see a situations where there are 1000's of Australians stranded like this in such terrible situations. The issue is though I don't know of a better answer

Yea I’m with you man . I sound like a massive prick , I know that . But it has to be this way . The kind of decisions that mess people up forever , are getting made now .

Its actually really distressing to me that we have people that can't return home, it is such a hard situation as because of what is going on overseas we have to take away some of the things that make Australia Australia. Never did I think I would live to see the day where we closed our borders to our own people. It kind of feels like being on a lift raft and paddling away from friends that are in the water drowning, but if we paddle over to them the entire life raft could sink.

It is a real dilemma for me just thinking about the right options because the answer that is probably right answer goes against my own personal moral fibre and the moral fibre of what makes our country important to me. I am so glad it is not my decision to make as I don't know if I could make one

It’s the old question of how much is one life worth ? Is one death the same as a million deaths . Or is the “greater good , to protect the many and cast the few ?

The reality is , in nature . It’s usually the latter as much as we want to tell ourselves differently.
Still doesn’t make it any less crappy though .

The thing is I think we will get them home, just not as quickly as we would like. One thing it does raise for me though is why are we about to send a large number of athletes overseas when if something goes wrong we can't bring them home.

Exactly. The infrastructure is there to do it, just not the will. Disgusting by the Australian Government. I won't forget.

I don't think the infrastructure is there to do it though, every time we have increased capacity there have been leaks in quarantine. Even looking at the numbers, in the last 2 days there have been close to 30 new cases in NSW quarantine hotels.

There are plenty of places that people can be housed in quarantine for three weeks. NT, unused military bases, unused mining facilities/camps even immigration detention centres. Hell even build a temporary base somewhere if needed. We can do it but we are all feeling a bit too comfortable back here in Oz. We just to think outside the box and be more compassionate.

The strict international border restrictions are the only thing that has allowed us to truly stay on top of this thing.

Not saying they should come back here and be released into the community. They need to be in quarantine for three weeks. We just don’t have the will to do it. We are talking about a max of 8,000 people in India I believe. It really isn’t impossible todo and maintain our quarantine processes. Worst case is we build a temporary tent city quarantine facility, preferably right outside Parliament House in Canberra to remind them of their obligations to Australian Citizens.

Everyone that comes back needs the infrastructure to accommodate and as you say we could set up tent citys etc, but potentially (particularly for India) each one of these returnees could be a case and require hospitalisation. Bear in mind that you are proposing to set up these military infrastructure, ***for people who have made the decision to go there or to stay in the middle of a pandemic.*** Personal responsibility.

EDIT: I got the numbers pretty badly wrong.

 

[mike]

How on earth can any Australian be considered as jumping anything to get back in their country!

Make . no mistake, the reason ministers and the like are out spruiking defence etcetera at the moment is to take the minds of the fringe amongst their base off their failures in aged care, vaccines, quarantine and the like.

Mate , many of the people returning home had ample opportunity to do so , before things got out of hand . Many more , got on the next available 18 months ago . I understand what your saying , but there had to be accountability for what each individual does . For those where the opportunities didn’t arise to return home earlier , I feel for them . That sux . But it’s no different from WA people being trapped in NSW , which I met a few , or all of us being locked down , not able to visit family at Christmas .

I actually tend to agree with you on that subject .....many initially decided they would come back to Australian when it suited them and ignored the calls from our foreign embassy and our government ...then when it did suit to leave their country of choice when it all got real they got their noses out of joint when they couldn't do it when it suited them

It’s not just them . It’s anyone who booked a holiday in the last year , or a cruise , or said “it’s a hoax” to justify ignoring general etiquette. I know of someone’s parents who went on holidays recently and are now stuck , bemoaning exactly what mike is about our evil government. (Not saying you’re in agreement with these @mike, just that the message is the same) .

Like I said before it reeks of entitlement and selfishness .

In that case it should be simple ...you sign a waiver understanding that the risk is there that you mightn't get back

Many of the people that have left Australia during the pandemic did exactly that. Those people are not the concern it’s the citizens that through no fault of their own have been left stranded and abandoned.

But did many of those decide to stay on after been told by the govt / embassy to leave NOW ..that's my issue

Too many people these days think rules don't apply to them ...they'll do what they want ..when they want

Like I said in a previous post, many of them have been trying to get home for a long time. Countries got locked down and they couldn’t. Airlines took their money and keep canceling flights. What are they supposed todo with no help from the Australian Government? Then the Australian Government wants to punish them when they try alternative avenues to get home. Disgraceful.

Govt's don't control the airlines ...and as I keep asking ...did these people try and get out when the were told to get out

Because I've usually found in life ...when you listen to the authorities things are ok

When you don't ...poo happens ...and don't whinge when the poo hits the fan when you didn't listen ......

Many of them have been trying to get back for a long time. The Australian Government could do heaps. Charter flights, use RAAF transports, to name a couple, but instead they have completely abandoned their obligations to Australian Citizens trapped overseas.

I'm going to guess seeing that your ignoring the question I'm asking ...that they didn't listen

They did listen.

 

[happy_tiger]

How on earth can any Australian be considered as jumping anything to get back in their country!

Make . no mistake, the reason ministers and the like are out spruiking defence etcetera at the moment is to take the minds of the fringe amongst their base off their failures in aged care, vaccines, quarantine and the like.

Mate , many of the people returning home had ample opportunity to do so , before things got out of hand . Many more , got on the next available 18 months ago . I understand what your saying , but there had to be accountability for what each individual does . For those where the opportunities didn’t arise to return home earlier , I feel for them . That sux . But it’s no different from WA people being trapped in NSW , which I met a few , or all of us being locked down , not able to visit family at Christmas .

I actually tend to agree with you on that subject .....many initially decided they would come back to Australian when it suited them and ignored the calls from our foreign embassy and our government ...then when it did suit to leave their country of choice when it all got real they got their noses out of joint when they couldn't do it when it suited them

It’s not just them . It’s anyone who booked a holiday in the last year , or a cruise , or said “it’s a hoax” to justify ignoring general etiquette. I know of someone’s parents who went on holidays recently and are now stuck , bemoaning exactly what mike is about our evil government. (Not saying you’re in agreement with these @mike, just that the message is the same) .

Like I said before it reeks of entitlement and selfishness .

In that case it should be simple ...you sign a waiver understanding that the risk is there that you mightn't get back

Many of the people that have left Australia during the pandemic did exactly that. Those people are not the concern it’s the citizens that through no fault of their own have been left stranded and abandoned.

But did many of those decide to stay on after been told by the govt / embassy to leave NOW ..that's my issue

Too many people these days think rules don't apply to them ...they'll do what they want ..when they want

Like I said in a previous post, many of them have been trying to get home for a long time. Countries got locked down and they couldn’t. Airlines took their money and keep canceling flights. What are they supposed todo with no help from the Australian Government? Then the Australian Government wants to punish them when they try alternative avenues to get home. Disgraceful.

Govt's don't control the airlines ...and as I keep asking ...did these people try and get out when the were told to get out

Because I've usually found in life ...when you listen to the authorities things are ok

When you don't ...poo happens ...and don't whinge when the poo hits the fan when you didn't listen ......

Many of them have been trying to get back for a long time. The Australian Government could do heaps. Charter flights, use RAAF transports, to name a couple, but instead they have completely abandoned their obligations to Australian Citizens trapped overseas.

I'm going to guess seeing that your ignoring the question I'm asking ...that they didn't listen

They did listen.

I haven't heard one of these people state they came out when the Govt asked them to do by X date ......

 

[mike]

Today I am ashamed to be called an Australian. As the Indian medical system collapses, The Australian Government has proposed to gaol people who travel back to Australia from nominated Red Zones via a secondary country.

I believe instead of this, the Australia should be sending planes over, QANTAS, RAAF, Private Jets, anything they can get their hands on, I don’t care, to get as many Australian home from these Red Zones as soon as possible. They can spend three weeks in quarantine upon return to protect the Australian community here. Even use remote locations if they are overly concerned of outbreaks.

Additionally the Australian Government should be sending supplies, medical equipment, oxygen and whatever the Indian medical system needs ASAP. Instead of the inadequate response so far. We should be doing everything we can in our power to help India out of the terrible predicament they are in.

This is an absolute disgrace.

Sorry . ? disagree . We have to be vigilant , and maintain our high standards in the face of adversity . We need to protect the people that are here , which means upholding existing protocols , especially because the Indian strain could be introducing a huge amount of hurt to the Australian population.

I highly doubt we arnt offering aid to them , but we can’t flush the baby with the bath water . It sounds cold , and inhumane , but Australians leaders first and primary mandate is to keep Australians safe .
Which means vetting and quarantining all who come home , in due course . Otherwise , all the good work we’ve done over the last 18 months will be brought undone .

Once we get our population vaccinated , then we can begin to relax , but doing what you suggest , shows complacency IMO , and we are so close to the finish line .

Not at all being complacent. They still need to go into Quarantine. I’m suggesting 3 weeks not 2. I’m not suggesting they be allowed directly into community. They can put the high risk in the NT facilities, that will protect the population here.

To propose gaol for Australians trying to get home anyway they can is a disgrace and disgusting. We should be doing everything we can to get them safely home ASAP.

I’d say the Gaol is just about queue jumping , and a scare tactic . If they could safely increase the volume of people returning to manage any spread , I’m sure they will. But in all seriousness , whole hotels are dedicated now , to just being predominantly quarantine zones , and I’d say that they’re chosen by how well they can enforce a lockdown , and as such are limited by the amount of beds and rooms they can provide . As far as I understood it , you can’t just check into a random Best Western .
I understand your sentiment , but you can’t save everyone , and I personally would not be happy if the government put the lives of many in this country at risk , to save the few. It’s cold , yea maybe , but it’s the right choice .

It’s akin to being on a flight , and the the oxygen masks fall. Your first priority is to fit your own , as your no help to anyone incapacitated.
If we relax the protocols we could be incapacitated, and then we arnt letting anyone in .

I do hate the fact that there are Australians that can't come home, I never thought I would see a situations where there are 1000's of Australians stranded like this in such terrible situations. The issue is though I don't know of a better answer

Yea I’m with you man . I sound like a massive prick , I know that . But it has to be this way . The kind of decisions that mess people up forever , are getting made now .

Its actually really distressing to me that we have people that can't return home, it is such a hard situation as because of what is going on overseas we have to take away some of the things that make Australia Australia. Never did I think I would live to see the day where we closed our borders to our own people. It kind of feels like being on a lift raft and paddling away from friends that are in the water drowning, but if we paddle over to them the entire life raft could sink.

It is a real dilemma for me just thinking about the right options because the answer that is probably right answer goes against my own personal moral fibre and the moral fibre of what makes our country important to me. I am so glad it is not my decision to make as I don't know if I could make one

It’s the old question of how much is one life worth ? Is one death the same as a million deaths . Or is the “greater good , to protect the many and cast the few ?

The reality is , in nature . It’s usually the latter as much as we want to tell ourselves differently.
Still doesn’t make it any less crappy though .

The thing is I think we will get them home, just not as quickly as we would like. One thing it does raise for me though is why are we about to send a large number of athletes overseas when if something goes wrong we can't bring them home.

Exactly. The infrastructure is there to do it, just not the will. Disgusting by the Australian Government. I won't forget.

I don't think the infrastructure is there to do it though, every time we have increased capacity there have been leaks in quarantine. Even looking at the numbers, in the last 2 days there have been close to 30 new cases in NSW quarantine hotels.

There are plenty of places that people can be housed in quarantine for three weeks. NT, unused military bases, unused mining facilities/camps even immigration detention centres. Hell even build a temporary base somewhere if needed. We can do it but we are all feeling a bit too comfortable back here in Oz. We just to think outside the box and be more compassionate.

The strict international border restrictions are the only thing that has allowed us to truly stay on top of this thing.

Not saying they should come back here and be released into the community. They need to be in quarantine for three weeks. We just don’t have the will to do it. We are talking about a max of 8,000 people in India I believe. It really isn’t impossible todo and maintain our quarantine processes. Worst case is we build a temporary tent city quarantine facility, preferably right outside Parliament House in Canberra to remind them of their obligations to Australian Citizens.


Australia (I believe) is taking 500 a week, so for India, thats 16 weeks...JUST for India. Everyone that comes back needs the infrastructure to accommodate and as you say we could set up tent citys etc, but potentially (particularly for India) each one of these returnees could be a case and require hospitalisation. Bear in mind that you are proposing to set up these military infrastructure, ***for people who have made the decision to go there or to stay in the middle of a pandemic.*** Personal responsibility.

It's not people that decided to go there during the pandemic, it's people that were already there that Australia has abandoned.

 

[Tiger5150]

If people wanna jump the queue and put us all at risk I'm all for throwing them in jail

They are not jumping any queue. They are not displacing anyone They are trying to get home by any means available to them.

If people wanna jump the queue and put us all at risk I'm all for throwing them in jail

They are not jumping any queue. They are not displacing anyone They are trying to get home by any means available to them.

Which means jumping the queue , as they would normally have to wait their turn . That’s literally queue jumping.

If there has been 30 cases in quarantine , all it takes is 1 of those to escape into the community , and we are all at risk .
The biggest reason why , is the amount of people living under 1 roof in the Indian community .
That’s a recipe for disaster.

No one is displacing anyone. We are talking about Australian trying to return home, not immigration. We are managing the quarantine fine. There are transports sitting at Amberley doing nothing at the moment. We should be doing evacs of Australian Citizens now.

Evacs to where ? You can’t engage defence force for that. What safety protocols are in place for the soldiers and Air Force who have to man those planes . Where are they housed when they get here , and what processes are in place to keep the rest of Australia safe .

It’s so simplistic to say jump on a plane and go get them.

There are heaps of places available. Many within the control of the Australian Government. Worst you could build a temp tent evac/ quarantine facility. We have the capacity and capability, just not the will. I think Australia is the only country in the whole world that wants to punish its citizens for returning home. Disgraceful.

The Australian Govt did everything it could to get citizens home up until I think around August (havent checked the date). After that its at your cost and you wait for your number to be called. I had friends try to get home in June & July and it took weeks but they are all home. There is noone stuck overseas that were trying to get home since July last year. Everyone trying to get home now has either left since or made the decision to stay with all the information available to them about what the decision meant.

Im not defending the Govt, I would hope Labor would do the same. We have been spared the massive burden of this pandemic so far and I am grateful of that and if the price is people have to bear their own personal responsibility, I think that is a fair price.

 

[mike]

If people wanna jump the queue and put us all at risk I'm all for throwing them in jail

They are not jumping any queue. They are not displacing anyone They are trying to get home by any means available to them.

If people wanna jump the queue and put us all at risk I'm all for throwing them in jail

They are not jumping any queue. They are not displacing anyone They are trying to get home by any means available to them.

Which means jumping the queue , as they would normally have to wait their turn . That’s literally queue jumping.

If there has been 30 cases in quarantine , all it takes is 1 of those to escape into the community , and we are all at risk .
The biggest reason why , is the amount of people living under 1 roof in the Indian community .
That’s a recipe for disaster.

No one is displacing anyone. We are talking about Australian trying to return home, not immigration. We are managing the quarantine fine. There are transports sitting at Amberley doing nothing at the moment. We should be doing evacs of Australian Citizens now.

Evacs to where ? You can’t engage defence force for that. What safety protocols are in place for the soldiers and Air Force who have to man those planes . Where are they housed when they get here , and what processes are in place to keep the rest of Australia safe .

It’s so simplistic to say jump on a plane and go get them.

There are heaps of places available. Many within the control of the Australian Government. Worst you could build a temp tent evac/ quarantine facility. We have the capacity and capability, just not the will. I think Australia is the only country in the whole world that wants to punish its citizens for returning home. Disgraceful.


The Australian Govt did everything it could to get citizens home up until I think around August (havent checked the date). After that its at your cost and you wait for your number to be called. I had friends try to get home in June & July and it took weeks but they are all home. **There is noone stuck overseas that were trying to get home since July last year.** Everyone trying to get home now has either left since or made the decision to stay with all the information available to them about what the decision meant.

Im not defending the Govt, I would hope Labor would do the same. We have been spared the massive burden of this pandemic so far and I am grateful of that and if the price is people have to bear their own personal responsibility, I think that is a fair price.

You seem pretty sure of yourself there.

 

[Tiger5150]

How on earth can any Australian be considered as jumping anything to get back in their country!

Make . no mistake, the reason ministers and the like are out spruiking defence etcetera at the moment is to take the minds of the fringe amongst their base off their failures in aged care, vaccines, quarantine and the like.

Mate , many of the people returning home had ample opportunity to do so , before things got out of hand . Many more , got on the next available 18 months ago . I understand what your saying , but there had to be accountability for what each individual does . For those where the opportunities didn’t arise to return home earlier , I feel for them . That sux . But it’s no different from WA people being trapped in NSW , which I met a few , or all of us being locked down , not able to visit family at Christmas .

I actually tend to agree with you on that subject .....many initially decided they would come back to Australian when it suited them and ignored the calls from our foreign embassy and our government ...then when it did suit to leave their country of choice when it all got real they got their noses out of joint when they couldn't do it when it suited them

It’s not just them . It’s anyone who booked a holiday in the last year , or a cruise , or said “it’s a hoax” to justify ignoring general etiquette. I know of someone’s parents who went on holidays recently and are now stuck , bemoaning exactly what mike is about our evil government. (Not saying you’re in agreement with these @mike, just that the message is the same) .

Like I said before it reeks of entitlement and selfishness .

In that case it should be simple ...you sign a waiver understanding that the risk is there that you mightn't get back

To leave the country you actually do sign a affidavit saying exactly that.

 

[Tim Sheens]

There are still thousands of our fellow citizens around the globe that have been trying to get back since this started and various lockdowns began, not all or even most that remained abroad, but still plenty of them.

Whether from being unable to break contracts, lack of funds to purchase a first class or business ticket, which even then they have been bounced from flights and a myriad of other reasons, for some it was not simply choice.

Even then, unless one made a conscious decision to leave our shores and sign a waiver or similar as mentioned above, they shouldn't have to be away from their homes because their national government failed in it's duties to provide adequate transportation and quarantine facilities.

Having Matthius Corman globe-trotting around in a government jet whilst Australians are suffering in this pandemic, rather than using it to repatriate others, was plain wrong.

 

[Harvey]

My view is that you need to protect the majority. Our biggest risk is through the quarantine, where there has been transmissions between people in different rooms and workers getting infected and then spreading into the wider community.

It is a combination of good management and luck that there have not been significant outbreaks in this country. Most of the countries that have have avoided major infection rates have relied on isolation to a degree.

What about a compromise? Initial quarantine on Christmas island, and then further isolation if negative at that end.

Do you think that those that are overseas and desperate to get back would agree to that or be screaming blue murder.

It appears the need to get back directly correlates to the risk of infection. The cricketers are the most hypocritical. Leave the country at the height of an international pandemic (I would like to know how they got permission to leave) to make a bucketful of money. When their risk increases they want to be rescued and should be allowed to come back into the country while thousands of others from numerous countries are left stranded.

Surely anyone that has left in the last 12 months should have no expectation of being repatriated.

 

[Tiger5150]

How on earth can any Australian be considered as jumping anything to get back in their country!

Make . no mistake, the reason ministers and the like are out spruiking defence etcetera at the moment is to take the minds of the fringe amongst their base off their failures in aged care, vaccines, quarantine and the like.

Mate , many of the people returning home had ample opportunity to do so , before things got out of hand . Many more , got on the next available 18 months ago . I understand what your saying , but there had to be accountability for what each individual does . For those where the opportunities didn’t arise to return home earlier , I feel for them . That sux . But it’s no different from WA people being trapped in NSW , which I met a few , or all of us being locked down , not able to visit family at Christmas .

I actually tend to agree with you on that subject .....many initially decided they would come back to Australian when it suited them and ignored the calls from our foreign embassy and our government ...then when it did suit to leave their country of choice when it all got real they got their noses out of joint when they couldn't do it when it suited them

It’s not just them . It’s anyone who booked a holiday in the last year , or a cruise , or said “it’s a hoax” to justify ignoring general etiquette. I know of someone’s parents who went on holidays recently and are now stuck , bemoaning exactly what mike is about our evil government. (Not saying you’re in agreement with these @mike, just that the message is the same) .

Like I said before it reeks of entitlement and selfishness .

In that case it should be simple ...you sign a waiver understanding that the risk is there that you mightn't get back

Many of the people that have left Australia during the pandemic did exactly that. Those people are not the concern it’s the citizens that ***through no fault of their own*** have been left stranded and abandoned.

REally? No fault of their own? Is this news to them?

 

[Tiger5150]

How on earth can any Australian be considered as jumping anything to get back in their country!

Make . no mistake, the reason ministers and the like are out spruiking defence etcetera at the moment is to take the minds of the fringe amongst their base off their failures in aged care, vaccines, quarantine and the like.

Mate , many of the people returning home had ample opportunity to do so , before things got out of hand . Many more , got on the next available 18 months ago . I understand what your saying , but there had to be accountability for what each individual does . For those where the opportunities didn’t arise to return home earlier , I feel for them . That sux . But it’s no different from WA people being trapped in NSW , which I met a few , or all of us being locked down , not able to visit family at Christmas .

I actually tend to agree with you on that subject .....many initially decided they would come back to Australian when it suited them and ignored the calls from our foreign embassy and our government ...then when it did suit to leave their country of choice when it all got real they got their noses out of joint when they couldn't do it when it suited them

It’s not just them . It’s anyone who booked a holiday in the last year , or a cruise , or said “it’s a hoax” to justify ignoring general etiquette. I know of someone’s parents who went on holidays recently and are now stuck , bemoaning exactly what mike is about our evil government. (Not saying you’re in agreement with these @mike, just that the message is the same) .

Like I said before it reeks of entitlement and selfishness .

They are not entitled. Some people have been trying to get home for months, in some cases almost a year. Airlines have been taking their money but the flights (if they actually existed) keep getting canceled or bumped. After a short period of time they run out of money for accommodation and food, relying on family and friends. It soon becomes a major financial burden. We need to bring our citizens home now.

No one has been waiting a year. I have two friends who decided in June/July to come home from Asia and Europe and they were both back in 8-10 weeks.

 

[bathursttiger1]

Have any forum members had a Covid vaccination yet?
I scheduled to have my first shot on Thursday but starting to get nervous about people getting blood clotting after their vaccinations.

 

[Deleted member 3518]

How on earth can any Australian be considered as jumping anything to get back in their country!

Make . no mistake, the reason ministers and the like are out spruiking defence etcetera at the moment is to take the minds of the fringe amongst their base off their failures in aged care, vaccines, quarantine and the like.

Mate , many of the people returning home had ample opportunity to do so , before things got out of hand . Many more , got on the next available 18 months ago . I understand what your saying , but there had to be accountability for what each individual does . For those where the opportunities didn’t arise to return home earlier , I feel for them . That sux . But it’s no different from WA people being trapped in NSW , which I met a few , or all of us being locked down , not able to visit family at Christmas .

I actually tend to agree with you on that subject .....many initially decided they would come back to Australian when it suited them and ignored the calls from our foreign embassy and our government ...then when it did suit to leave their country of choice when it all got real they got their noses out of joint when they couldn't do it when it suited them

It’s not just them . It’s anyone who booked a holiday in the last year , or a cruise , or said “it’s a hoax” to justify ignoring general etiquette. I know of someone’s parents who went on holidays recently and are now stuck , bemoaning exactly what mike is about our evil government. (Not saying you’re in agreement with these @mike, just that the message is the same) .

Like I said before it reeks of entitlement and selfishness .

In that case it should be simple ...you sign a waiver understanding that the risk is there that you mightn't get back

Many of the people that have left Australia during the pandemic did exactly that. Those people are not the concern it’s the citizens that through no fault of their own have been left stranded and abandoned.

Look man , this has already been answered to . If you’re not going to listen to sense , about the individuals responses to what was asked of them , then I guess we need to agree to disagree .


We absolutely disagree. I'll listen when people have something constructive to say.

The Australian Government's stance on this is disgusting.

I hope those Australian's of Indian decent don't forget how they have been abandoned by this incompetent Federal Government.

Alright mate . There’s been 4 people offer you the answer to your question , but your unwilling to acknowledge the slightest bit of common sense . Most caught are only victims I t hat they did it to themselves .

 

[Tiger5150]

Today I am ashamed to be called an Australian. As the Indian medical system collapses, The Australian Government has proposed to gaol people who travel back to Australia from nominated Red Zones via a secondary country.

I believe instead of this, the Australia should be sending planes over, QANTAS, RAAF, Private Jets, anything they can get their hands on, I don’t care, to get as many Australian home from these Red Zones as soon as possible. They can spend three weeks in quarantine upon return to protect the Australian community here. Even use remote locations if they are overly concerned of outbreaks.

Additionally the Australian Government should be sending supplies, medical equipment, oxygen and whatever the Indian medical system needs ASAP. Instead of the inadequate response so far. We should be doing everything we can in our power to help India out of the terrible predicament they are in.

This is an absolute disgrace.

Sorry . ? disagree . We have to be vigilant , and maintain our high standards in the face of adversity . We need to protect the people that are here , which means upholding existing protocols , especially because the Indian strain could be introducing a huge amount of hurt to the Australian population.

I highly doubt we arnt offering aid to them , but we can’t flush the baby with the bath water . It sounds cold , and inhumane , but Australians leaders first and primary mandate is to keep Australians safe .
Which means vetting and quarantining all who come home , in due course . Otherwise , all the good work we’ve done over the last 18 months will be brought undone .

Once we get our population vaccinated , then we can begin to relax , but doing what you suggest , shows complacency IMO , and we are so close to the finish line .

Not at all being complacent. They still need to go into Quarantine. I’m suggesting 3 weeks not 2. I’m not suggesting they be allowed directly into community. They can put the high risk in the NT facilities, that will protect the population here.

To propose gaol for Australians trying to get home anyway they can is a disgrace and disgusting. We should be doing everything we can to get them safely home ASAP.

I’d say the Gaol is just about queue jumping , and a scare tactic . If they could safely increase the volume of people returning to manage any spread , I’m sure they will. But in all seriousness , whole hotels are dedicated now , to just being predominantly quarantine zones , and I’d say that they’re chosen by how well they can enforce a lockdown , and as such are limited by the amount of beds and rooms they can provide . As far as I understood it , you can’t just check into a random Best Western .
I understand your sentiment , but you can’t save everyone , and I personally would not be happy if the government put the lives of many in this country at risk , to save the few. It’s cold , yea maybe , but it’s the right choice .

It’s akin to being on a flight , and the the oxygen masks fall. Your first priority is to fit your own , as your no help to anyone incapacitated.
If we relax the protocols we could be incapacitated, and then we arnt letting anyone in .

I do hate the fact that there are Australians that can't come home, I never thought I would see a situations where there are 1000's of Australians stranded like this in such terrible situations. The issue is though I don't know of a better answer

Yea I’m with you man . I sound like a massive prick , I know that . But it has to be this way . The kind of decisions that mess people up forever , are getting made now .

Its actually really distressing to me that we have people that can't return home, it is such a hard situation as because of what is going on overseas we have to take away some of the things that make Australia Australia. Never did I think I would live to see the day where we closed our borders to our own people. It kind of feels like being on a lift raft and paddling away from friends that are in the water drowning, but if we paddle over to them the entire life raft could sink.

It is a real dilemma for me just thinking about the right options because the answer that is probably right answer goes against my own personal moral fibre and the moral fibre of what makes our country important to me. I am so glad it is not my decision to make as I don't know if I could make one

It’s the old question of how much is one life worth ? Is one death the same as a million deaths . Or is the “greater good , to protect the many and cast the few ?

The reality is , in nature . It’s usually the latter as much as we want to tell ourselves differently.
Still doesn’t make it any less crappy though .

The thing is I think we will get them home, just not as quickly as we would like. One thing it does raise for me though is why are we about to send a large number of athletes overseas when if something goes wrong we can't bring them home.

Exactly. The infrastructure is there to do it, just not the will. Disgusting by the Australian Government. I won't forget.

I don't think the infrastructure is there to do it though, every time we have increased capacity there have been leaks in quarantine. Even looking at the numbers, in the last 2 days there have been close to 30 new cases in NSW quarantine hotels.

There are plenty of places that people can be housed in quarantine for three weeks. NT, unused military bases, unused mining facilities/camps even immigration detention centres. Hell even build a temporary base somewhere if needed. We can do it but we are all feeling a bit too comfortable back here in Oz. We just to think outside the box and be more compassionate.

The strict international border restrictions are the only thing that has allowed us to truly stay on top of this thing.

Not saying they should come back here and be released into the community. They need to be in quarantine for three weeks. We just don’t have the will to do it. We are talking about a max of 8,000 people in India I believe. It really isn’t impossible todo and maintain our quarantine processes. Worst case is we build a temporary tent city quarantine facility, preferably right outside Parliament House in Canberra to remind them of their obligations to Australian Citizens.


Australia (I believe) is taking 500 a week, so for India, thats 16 weeks...JUST for India. Everyone that comes back needs the infrastructure to accommodate and as you say we could set up tent citys etc, but potentially (particularly for India) each one of these returnees could be a case and require hospitalisation. Bear in mind that you are proposing to set up these military infrastructure, ***for people who have made the decision to go there or to stay in the middle of a pandemic.*** Personal responsibility.

It's not people that decided to go there during the pandemic, it's people that were already there that Australia has abandoned.

Mate if that was true I would agree with you, but it simply isnt. THere is no one still out there from a year ago. People made decisions based on their own circumstances to stay and now they are paying the price that they knew was the price when they exercised their personal responsibility.

 

[Tiger5150]

If people wanna jump the queue and put us all at risk I'm all for throwing them in jail

They are not jumping any queue. They are not displacing anyone They are trying to get home by any means available to them.

If people wanna jump the queue and put us all at risk I'm all for throwing them in jail

They are not jumping any queue. They are not displacing anyone They are trying to get home by any means available to them.

Which means jumping the queue , as they would normally have to wait their turn . That’s literally queue jumping.

If there has been 30 cases in quarantine , all it takes is 1 of those to escape into the community , and we are all at risk .
The biggest reason why , is the amount of people living under 1 roof in the Indian community .
That’s a recipe for disaster.

No one is displacing anyone. We are talking about Australian trying to return home, not immigration. We are managing the quarantine fine. There are transports sitting at Amberley doing nothing at the moment. We should be doing evacs of Australian Citizens now.

Evacs to where ? You can’t engage defence force for that. What safety protocols are in place for the soldiers and Air Force who have to man those planes . Where are they housed when they get here , and what processes are in place to keep the rest of Australia safe .

It’s so simplistic to say jump on a plane and go get them.

There are heaps of places available. Many within the control of the Australian Government. Worst you could build a temp tent evac/ quarantine facility. We have the capacity and capability, just not the will. I think Australia is the only country in the whole world that wants to punish its citizens for returning home. Disgraceful.


The Australian Govt did everything it could to get citizens home up until I think around August (havent checked the date). After that its at your cost and you wait for your number to be called. I had friends try to get home in June & July and it took weeks but they are all home. **There is noone stuck overseas that were trying to get home since July last year.** Everyone trying to get home now has either left since or made the decision to stay with all the information available to them about what the decision meant.

Im not defending the Govt, I would hope Labor would do the same. We have been spared the massive burden of this pandemic so far and I am grateful of that and if the price is people have to bear their own personal responsibility, I think that is a fair price.

You seem pretty sure of yourself there.

100% sure based on personal experiences, happy to be corrected if you have genuine data or information.