Coronavirus Outbreak

[cochise]

I disagree with living with it, that is defeatism. We should aim for zero, and we should defend that with a hard international border, in addition to vaccinations.

Several months go there had been a suggestion to block travellers from India at the height of their delta outbreak. If the government had stuck with this we would likely still be at zero cases, and there would be no need for a lockdown. But unfortunately they caved and put the rights of international travellers ahead of Australia's health and economy, and those travellers brought delta to a country that wasn't prepared for it.

Was that where the limo driver contracted it? There have been sporadic outbreaks in all states with different variants of the virus and they have been managed (even delta.)

This is purely down to inadequate HQ policy. Importing cases into densely populated urban centres and expecting no outbreaks.

No I don't believe the Delta variant got here from people returning from India.

 

[TillLindemann]

I disagree with living with it, that is defeatism. We should aim for zero, and we should defend that with a hard international border, in addition to vaccinations.

Several months go there had been a suggestion to block travellers from India at the height of their delta outbreak. If the government had stuck with this we would likely still be at zero cases, and there would be no need for a lockdown. But unfortunately they caved and put the rights of international travellers ahead of Australia's health and economy, and those travellers brought delta to a country that wasn't prepared for it.

Was that where the limo driver contracted it? There have been sporadic outbreaks in all states with different variants of the virus and they have been managed (even delta.)

This is purely down to inadequate HQ policy. Importing cases into densely populated urban centres and expecting no outbreaks.

No I don't believe the Delta variant got here from people returning from India.

Really? Delta is the Indian variant.

 

[cochise]

I disagree with living with it, that is defeatism. We should aim for zero, and we should defend that with a hard international border, in addition to vaccinations.

Several months go there had been a suggestion to block travellers from India at the height of their delta outbreak. If the government had stuck with this we would likely still be at zero cases, and there would be no need for a lockdown. But unfortunately they caved and put the rights of international travellers ahead of Australia's health and economy, and those travellers brought delta to a country that wasn't prepared for it.

Was that where the limo driver contracted it? There have been sporadic outbreaks in all states with different variants of the virus and they have been managed (even delta.)

This is purely down to inadequate HQ policy. Importing cases into densely populated urban centres and expecting no outbreaks.

No I don't believe the Delta variant got here from people returning from India.

Really? Delta is the Indian variant.

I don't think we were driving people returning from India to their hotel in private cars, do you?

I am pretty sure this was transmitted to the driver from freight crews from the US.

 

[Pascoes_barber]

I disagree with living with it, that is defeatism. We should aim for zero, and we should defend that with a hard international border, in addition to vaccinations.

Several months go there had been a suggestion to block travellers from India at the height of their delta outbreak. If the government had stuck with this we would likely still be at zero cases, and there would be no need for a lockdown. But unfortunately they caved and put the rights of international travellers ahead of Australia's health and economy, and those travellers brought delta to a country that wasn't prepared for it.

Was that where the limo driver contracted it? There have been sporadic outbreaks in all states with different variants of the virus and they have been managed (even delta.)

This is purely down to inadequate HQ policy. Importing cases into densely populated urban centres and expecting no outbreaks.

No I don't believe the Delta variant got here from people returning from India.

Really? Delta is the Indian variant.

It would've ended up here regardless; delta is the dominant variant globally and became so in a matter of months.

 

[TillLindemann]

I disagree with living with it, that is defeatism. We should aim for zero, and we should defend that with a hard international border, in addition to vaccinations.

Several months go there had been a suggestion to block travellers from India at the height of their delta outbreak. If the government had stuck with this we would likely still be at zero cases, and there would be no need for a lockdown. But unfortunately they caved and put the rights of international travellers ahead of Australia's health and economy, and those travellers brought delta to a country that wasn't prepared for it.

Was that where the limo driver contracted it? There have been sporadic outbreaks in all states with different variants of the virus and they have been managed (even delta.)

This is purely down to inadequate HQ policy. Importing cases into densely populated urban centres and expecting no outbreaks.

No I don't believe the Delta variant got here from people returning from India.

Really? Delta is the Indian variant.

I don't think we were driving people returning from India to their hotel in private cars, do you?

I am pretty sure this was transmitted to the driver from freight crews from the US.

Ok if they were freight pilots I stand corrected. I still think there should have been fewer flights in general.

 

[earl]

Add to this the single jab numbers are growing its the double jab numbers plus 2 weeks after that counts

It's been pretty obvious for a while that they weren't mentioning this issue. You do get good coverage after one dose. Dr Chant said she preferred 2 people with one dose each compared to 1 person with 2 doses.

The thing is we really need 2 doses plus 2 weeks for a large chunk of people.

I reckon we should be opening up at 50% fully vaccinated but I also think it should really be based on opportunity to get vaccinated. Give the opportunity to everyone. Give it 2 months. Open up.

It's going to be interesting. If we don't have high vaccination rates it's spreading and our ICU's are going to be under pressure.

I believe opening at 70% vaccination is madness with the current high numbers. Gladys should concentrate on eliminating the virus through tougher restrictions in those areas where the virus remains circulating.

I don't know if it's possible to eliminate the virus and I don't think tougher restrictions will work. I live in one of the LGA's on tightened lockdowns. I'm at home all day apart from a walk where I use a mask. My wife does the shopping once per week. Occasionally I go and do a separate shop.

How much further can you lock us down ?

Then you add to that this variant is twice as infectious.

The cost of lockdowns are so extreme as well.

We are in a terrible situation but to be honest we are better off than basically the rest of the world.

I’d be giving you the AZ vax

Done. I'm already vaxxed but I'll take the booster shot. If it was my decision the problem would be over by christmas time at the latest. I'd force people. 100% coverage according to risk profile. No more lockdowns. Stuff your conspiracy theorists and people holding out for their special brand. 100% compliance with the medical policy.

You can't do that. It'll be interesting if the same thing happens anyway. It could happen but without the compliance on vaccines.

My option saves lives.

 

[earl]

I disagree with living with it, that is defeatism. We should aim for zero, and we should defend that with a hard international border, in addition to vaccinations.

Several months go there had been a suggestion to block travellers from India at the height of their delta outbreak. If the government had stuck with this we would likely still be at zero cases, and there would be no need for a lockdown. But unfortunately they caved and put the rights of international travellers ahead of Australia's health and economy, and those travellers brought delta to a country that wasn't prepared for it.

Was that where the limo driver contracted it? There have been sporadic outbreaks in all states with different variants of the virus and they have been managed (even delta.)

This is purely down to inadequate HQ policy. Importing cases into densely populated urban centres and expecting no outbreaks.

No I don't believe the Delta variant got here from people returning from India.

Really? Delta is the Indian variant.

I don't think we were driving people returning from India to their hotel in private cars, do you?

I am pretty sure this was transmitted to the driver from freight crews from the US.

Ok if they were freight pilots I stand corrected. I still think there should have been fewer flights in general.

They were freight pilots. It's the Delta variants dudes. It goes nuts.

 

[TillLindemann]

It would’ve ended up here regardless

It spreads by the movement of people. If you have a hard international border you limit the movement of the virus. New Zealand is not 'living with' delta, and nor should we aim to do that. If we go hard (which we're not doing) we can get rid of it.

 

[TillLindemann]

I disagree with living with it, that is defeatism. We should aim for zero, and we should defend that with a hard international border, in addition to vaccinations.

Several months go there had been a suggestion to block travellers from India at the height of their delta outbreak. If the government had stuck with this we would likely still be at zero cases, and there would be no need for a lockdown. But unfortunately they caved and put the rights of international travellers ahead of Australia's health and economy, and those travellers brought delta to a country that wasn't prepared for it.

Was that where the limo driver contracted it? There have been sporadic outbreaks in all states with different variants of the virus and they have been managed (even delta.)

This is purely down to inadequate HQ policy. Importing cases into densely populated urban centres and expecting no outbreaks.

No I don't believe the Delta variant got here from people returning from India.

Really? Delta is the Indian variant.

I don't think we were driving people returning from India to their hotel in private cars, do you?

I am pretty sure this was transmitted to the driver from freight crews from the US.

Ok if they were freight pilots I stand corrected. I still think there should have been fewer flights in general.

They were freight pilots. It's the Delta variants dudes. It goes nuts.

And more pilots, and more people crossing borders, means more chances to go nuts.

 

[cochise]

It would’ve ended up here regardless

It spreads by the movement of people. If you have a hard international border you limit the movement of the virus. New Zealand is not 'living with' delta, and nor should we aim to do that. If we go hard (which we're not doing) we can get rid of it.

People have a right to return home.

 

[Guest]

I disagree with living with it, that is defeatism. We should aim for zero, and we should defend that with a hard international border, in addition to vaccinations.

Several months go there had been a suggestion to block travellers from India at the height of their delta outbreak. If the government had stuck with this we would likely still be at zero cases, and there would be no need for a lockdown. But unfortunately they caved and put the rights of international travellers ahead of Australia's health and economy, and those travellers brought delta to a country that wasn't prepared for it.

It's impossible at this point I'm afraid - you can't rely on the community to do the right thing during this pandemic - some don't believe in it, others think they are bullet proof, others want to visit their family regardless of the circumstances, others don't trust the government and thumb their nose at them at every opportunity...and the virus does not care - it will continue to spread regardless.

 

[earl]

And more pilots, and more people crossing borders, means more chances to go nuts.

I agree. I get your point. It's possible to lockdown hard and completely. There is a cost to that. I don't have a strong opinion on the cost versus the benefit. I also think the equation has changed with the Delta variant.

I look at the experience of the rest of the world and the lockdown hard and completely is very rare.

 

[earl]

and the virus does not care

This.

 

[hobbo1]

Add to this the single jab numbers are growing its the double jab numbers plus 2 weeks after that counts

It's been pretty obvious for a while that they weren't mentioning this issue. You do get good coverage after one dose. Dr Chant said she preferred 2 people with one dose each compared to 1 person with 2 doses.

The thing is we really need 2 doses plus 2 weeks for a large chunk of people.

I reckon we should be opening up at 50% fully vaccinated but I also think it should really be based on opportunity to get vaccinated. Give the opportunity to everyone. Give it 2 months. Open up.

It's going to be interesting. If we don't have high vaccination rates it's spreading and our ICU's are going to be under pressure.

I believe opening at 70% vaccination is madness with the current high numbers. Gladys should concentrate on eliminating the virus through tougher restrictions in those areas where the virus remains circulating.

I don't know if it's possible to eliminate the virus and I don't think tougher restrictions will work. I live in one of the LGA's on tightened lockdowns. I'm at home all day apart from a walk where I use a mask. My wife does the shopping once per week. Occasionally I go and do a separate shop.

How much further can you lock us down ?

Then you add to that this variant is twice as infectious.

The cost of lockdowns are so extreme as well.

We are in a terrible situation but to be honest we are better off than basically the rest of the world.

I’d be giving you the AZ vax

Done. I'm already vaxxed but I'll take the booster shot. If it was my decision the problem would be over by christmas time at the latest. I'd force people. 100% coverage according to risk profile. No more lockdowns. Stuff your conspiracy theorists and people holding out for their special brand. 100% compliance with the medical policy.

You can't do that. It'll be interesting if the same thing happens anyway. It could happen but without the compliance on vaccines.

My option saves lives.

I thought you hadn’t been vaxed yet ?
And you were waiting for phizzer ?

 

[earl]

I thought you hadn’t been vaxed yet ?
And you were waiting for phizzer ?

Pfizer - fully vaxxed up. My wife booked in prior to it being available for our age group. I booked in as soon as I could. I was only one day later than my wife. I hate needles. I never get the flu vaccine. I didn't pick Pfizer but it was the recommended vaccine because I'm 48.

 

[TillLindemann]

I disagree with living with it, that is defeatism. We should aim for zero, and we should defend that with a hard international border, in addition to vaccinations.

Several months go there had been a suggestion to block travellers from India at the height of their delta outbreak. If the government had stuck with this we would likely still be at zero cases, and there would be no need for a lockdown. But unfortunately they caved and put the rights of international travellers ahead of Australia's health and economy, and those travellers brought delta to a country that wasn't prepared for it.

It's impossible at this point I'm afraid - you can't rely on the community to do the right thing during this pandemic - some don't believe in it, others think they are bullet proof, others want to visit their family regardless of the circumstances, others don't trust the government and thumb their nose at them at every opportunity...and the virus does not care - it will continue to spread regardless.

Then unfortunately I think we are screwed, because no country on earth has shown vaccination on its own to be enough, especially countries where there is a certain percentage of the population who refuse to get vaccinated (which looks to be the case in Australia). The US is heading back to 100,000 cases a day, highly-vaxxed countries like Israel are going back into lockdown. If we are not going to use our one natural advantage - that we are an island and can control our border - then we are going to be enduring these half-ar##ed lockdowns well into next year.

 

[Pascoes_barber]

No country has yet reached 80% fully vaccinated. Even Israel is only at ~65%.

At the point of 75-80% vax rate 'cases' becomes a meaningless statistic.

And being an island that no longer manufactures anything, we are reliant on international freight.

 

[Tiger5150]

I disagree with living with it, that is defeatism. We should aim for zero, and we should defend that with a hard international border, in addition to vaccinations.

Several months go there had been a suggestion to block travellers from India at the height of their delta outbreak. If the government had stuck with this we would likely still be at zero cases, and there would be no need for a lockdown. But unfortunately they caved and put the rights of international travellers ahead of Australia's health and economy, and those travellers brought delta to a country that wasn't prepared for it.

It's impossible at this point I'm afraid - you can't rely on the community to do the right thing during this pandemic - some don't believe in it, others think they are bullet proof, others want to visit their family regardless of the circumstances, others don't trust the government and thumb their nose at them at every opportunity...and the virus does not care - it will continue to spread regardless.

Then unfortunately I think we are screwed, because no country on earth has shown vaccination on its own to be enough, especially countries where there is a certain percentage of the population who refuse to get vaccinated (which looks to be the case in Australia). The US is heading back to 100,000 cases a day, highly-vaxxed countries like Israel are going back into lockdown. If we are not going to use our one natural advantage - that we are an island and can control our border - then we are going to be enduring these half-ar##ed lockdowns well into next year.

Once we get enough of the population vaxxed, it will have to be life as normal and a number of people will die a year of Covid like they do of other transmissible diseases ever year.

 

[tigger]

I disagree with living with it, that is defeatism. We should aim for zero, and we should defend that with a hard international border, in addition to vaccinations.

Several months go there had been a suggestion to block travellers from India at the height of their delta outbreak. If the government had stuck with this we would likely still be at zero cases, and there would be no need for a lockdown. But unfortunately they caved and put the rights of international travellers ahead of Australia's health and economy, and those travellers brought delta to a country that wasn't prepared for it.

It's impossible at this point I'm afraid - you can't rely on the community to do the right thing during this pandemic - some don't believe in it, others think they are bullet proof, others want to visit their family regardless of the circumstances, others don't trust the government and thumb their nose at them at every opportunity...and the virus does not care - it will continue to spread regardless.

Then unfortunately I think we are screwed, because no country on earth has shown vaccination on its own to be enough, especially countries where there is a certain percentage of the population who refuse to get vaccinated (which looks to be the case in Australia). The US is heading back to 100,000 cases a day, highly-vaxxed countries like Israel are going back into lockdown. If we are not going to use our one natural advantage - that we are an island and can control our border - then we are going to be enduring these half-ar##ed lockdowns well into next year.

I think we'll get to a stage where there is a relatively high level of voluntary vaccination in this country. I'm still quietly confident that we will get close to the 80% mark once appropriate vaccines are available to all.
I think that because this issue has not become as politicised as it has in other countries (particularly the US), nor do we have the same percentage of population who are whacko conspiracy theorists. In the main, Australians are a fairly level headed bunch. (even including Parra supporters) and I think common sense will ultimately prevail.
When we do get to that stage, restrictions will ease and the unvaccinated will just have to take their chances. One thing that might motivate the recalcitrant is if all covid treatment for the vaccinated (and those with conditions preventing vaccination) was free, but the unvaccinated have to pay full freight for hospitalisation and medical treatment related to Covid.
Some may think that's unfair, but so is holding back the rest of society from moving on with life.

 

[cochise]

I disagree with living with it, that is defeatism. We should aim for zero, and we should defend that with a hard international border, in addition to vaccinations.

Several months go there had been a suggestion to block travellers from India at the height of their delta outbreak. If the government had stuck with this we would likely still be at zero cases, and there would be no need for a lockdown. But unfortunately they caved and put the rights of international travellers ahead of Australia's health and economy, and those travellers brought delta to a country that wasn't prepared for it.

It's impossible at this point I'm afraid - you can't rely on the community to do the right thing during this pandemic - some don't believe in it, others think they are bullet proof, others want to visit their family regardless of the circumstances, others don't trust the government and thumb their nose at them at every opportunity...and the virus does not care - it will continue to spread regardless.

Then unfortunately I think we are screwed, because no country on earth has shown vaccination on its own to be enough, especially countries where there is a certain percentage of the population who refuse to get vaccinated (which looks to be the case in Australia). The US is heading back to 100,000 cases a day, highly-vaxxed countries like Israel are going back into lockdown. If we are not going to use our one natural advantage - that we are an island and can control our border - then we are going to be enduring these half-ar##ed lockdowns well into next year.

I think we'll get to a stage where there is a relatively high level of voluntary vaccination in this country. I'm still quietly confident that we will get close to the 80% mark once appropriate vaccines are available to all.
I think that because this issue has not become as politicised as it has in other countries (particularly the US), nor do we have the same percentage of population who are whacko conspiracy theorists. In the main, Australians are a fairly level headed bunch. (even including Parra supporters) and I think common sense will ultimately prevail.
When we do get to that stage, restrictions will ease and the unvaccinated will just have to take their chances. One thing that might motivate the recalcitrant is if all covid treatment for the vaccinated (and those with conditions preventing vaccination) was free, but the unvaccinated have to pay full freight for hospitalisation and medical treatment related to Covid.
Some may think that's unfair, but so is holding back the rest of society from moving on with life.

Yeah I couldn't do that.