Coronavirus Outbreak

[Tim Sheens]

**What Mike refers to as "vaccine apartheid," will not last forever**. I know Dwight doesn't actually fit into that category as he is jabbed, but it won't be forever. Businesses who might be fully vaccinated might not want to close off their business to unvaccinated individuals. It looks as though people who are going to be eligible but remain unvaxxed by choice are going to represent a small fraction of the population anyway, it would make no sense to keep those people locked up forever once everyone else is vaccinated. Those people will probably get COVID eventually, they'll survive and have immunity or they'll die. That will be the reality for them.

I’m not actually convinced of that. Some businesses and people would like this to be permanent.

I am not against businesses making that decision for themselves, if I am a business owner and I wanted to make it mandatory that employees or customers are vaccinated I should be able to do that. Some businesses it should already be mandatory like aged care.

It won't be through a government mandate forever though. They'll eventually relax the rules and leave it to businesses to choose as they please.

Will the unvaccinated be able to take public transport, go to their local coffee shop or pub, go to the post office, to sporting events? This is a very dangerous path we are heading down.

Probably not at first. Once everyone who can be vaccinated is, I see no reason to not allow unvaccinated people to do those things also. The people who want to be vaccinated against this disease should have every right to do so and not be put at risk by those whom wish not to do so. Once they are jabbed, they're no longer at any risk of becoming severely ill from it.

On the other hand, if unvaccinated people are allowed to do all these things but certain businesses wish to police it, do you oppose that?

Absolutely I would be opposed to it. Where does it end, are the unvaccinated not allowed into the health system?

I understand that certain occupations require vaccination, health care workers and age care workers come to mind, but disallowing someone access to a business or government agency because of their vaccination status is Vaccine Apartheid.

So what happens to the unfortunate people who can not receive the vaccine. Are you are happy for them to be at risk?

I would encourage all that can be vaccinated do so. Always have and always will. However I will not discriminate against those who are not.

This is such a difficult question - when does greater good override individual choice?
People will have the choice to not be vaccinated and rightly so but others need to be protected from the potential of the non-vaccinated harming them.
When it comes to people working in 'essential', 'care' or hospitality/ customer service roles where they are in contact with greater numbers of people on a day to day basis, I think greater good overrides individual freedom as the risk to both the worker and those they come in contact with is much greater.

I think Delta has cahnged things significantly. With the original virus and even Alpha, the Vaccines had 94% and 80somehting % efficacy. With that knowledge I think you could just open the doors, let everyone live like normal, mix vaxxed and unvaxxed and the unvaxxed have made their choice (except for the very small numbers who cant get vaxxed).

Trouble is that AZ has only 67% efficacy against Delta and Pfizer is down to 88% which means significant numbers of vaxxed people are going to catch it and that has implications.

Hopefully they will be able to adjust some of the vaccine options to be more viable against the Delta variant and any problematic ones that may emerge.

Also hope that assuming you are now dosed up, your body has a mild reaction if any at all and further to earlier discussions, whilst I had similar symptom types post both of mine, the first were much greater this end.

 

[Tim Sheens]

What to do with my 11am's now..

Yeah, I had already mostly switched off apart from getting the numbers as there was little other than rhetoric afterwards, but there are a lot of people that want or may even feel a need for Gladys and/or Hazzard and leading officials.

 

[innsaneink]

What to do with my 11am's now..

Do what you do with your 4pm tuesdays

 

[Tiger5150]

**What Mike refers to as "vaccine apartheid," will not last forever**. I know Dwight doesn't actually fit into that category as he is jabbed, but it won't be forever. Businesses who might be fully vaccinated might not want to close off their business to unvaccinated individuals. It looks as though people who are going to be eligible but remain unvaxxed by choice are going to represent a small fraction of the population anyway, it would make no sense to keep those people locked up forever once everyone else is vaccinated. Those people will probably get COVID eventually, they'll survive and have immunity or they'll die. That will be the reality for them.

I’m not actually convinced of that. Some businesses and people would like this to be permanent.

I am not against businesses making that decision for themselves, if I am a business owner and I wanted to make it mandatory that employees or customers are vaccinated I should be able to do that. Some businesses it should already be mandatory like aged care.

It won't be through a government mandate forever though. They'll eventually relax the rules and leave it to businesses to choose as they please.

Will the unvaccinated be able to take public transport, go to their local coffee shop or pub, go to the post office, to sporting events? This is a very dangerous path we are heading down.

Probably not at first. Once everyone who can be vaccinated is, I see no reason to not allow unvaccinated people to do those things also. The people who want to be vaccinated against this disease should have every right to do so and not be put at risk by those whom wish not to do so. Once they are jabbed, they're no longer at any risk of becoming severely ill from it.

On the other hand, if unvaccinated people are allowed to do all these things but certain businesses wish to police it, do you oppose that?

Absolutely I would be opposed to it. Where does it end, are the unvaccinated not allowed into the health system?

I understand that certain occupations require vaccination, health care workers and age care workers come to mind, but disallowing someone access to a business or government agency because of their vaccination status is Vaccine Apartheid.

So what happens to the unfortunate people who can not receive the vaccine. Are you are happy for them to be at risk?

I would encourage all that can be vaccinated do so. Always have and always will. However I will not discriminate against those who are not.

This is such a difficult question - when does greater good override individual choice?
People will have the choice to not be vaccinated and rightly so but others need to be protected from the potential of the non-vaccinated harming them.
When it comes to people working in 'essential', 'care' or hospitality/ customer service roles where they are in contact with greater numbers of people on a day to day basis, I think greater good overrides individual freedom as the risk to both the worker and those they come in contact with is much greater.

I think Delta has cahnged things significantly. With the original virus and even Alpha, the Vaccines had 94% and 80somehting % efficacy. With that knowledge I think you could just open the doors, let everyone live like normal, mix vaxxed and unvaxxed and the unvaxxed have made their choice (except for the very small numbers who cant get vaxxed).

Trouble is that AZ has only 67% efficacy against Delta and Pfizer is down to 88% which means significant numbers of vaxxed people are going to catch it and that has implications.

Hopefully they will be able to adjust some of the vaccine options to be more viable against the Delta variant and any problematic ones that may emerge.

Its a good point. This vaccine was effectively developed specific to the RNA profile of COVID 19 within 6 months Delta has been around for longer than that. It seems to follow that surely they could tweak it to suit over time. I would imagine that there are many financial and logistical constraints on revising the vaccine but I would also expect that in time it will happen.

Also hope that assuming you are now dosed up, your body has a mild reaction if any at all and further to earlier discussions, whilst I had similar symptom types post both of mine, the first were much greater this end.

It has been 3 hours now and Im feeling a slight buzz which may be attributable to Friday afternoon beers.

Interesting that you had stronger symptoms on your first shot as I think anecdotally it seems to be stronger on the second Pfizer shot.

 

[mikey]

What to do with my 11am's now..

Be like The Diceman. 🙂

 

[hank37w]

Good to see the daily press conferences are stopping. It is so inconvenient when cold, hard facts get in the way of a narrative.

Wests Tigers Forum? was my reaction when I read this and popped on the TV to check before replying.

We are about to head into that which Gladys herself had stated are going to be worsening conditions and we are going to get a video presentation from health, what the actual!

So basically we are going to in the main get Stokes' media or Ray Hadley like interviews, no accountability in parliament for more than yet another month and press conferences when her vaccination numbers are good.

I think that Gladys pulling back was always going to happen and should happen because we need to shift peoples paradigm about this disease to a "living with it" paradigm which is not conducive to daily reports of cases. To use the obvious example, in previous years we had large case numbers of influenza and average daily deaths of 3 a day but didnt have daily press conferences about it.

I do also think that Gladys has pulled the pin early. I cant understand the rationale of stopping before opening up and reaching vaccine targets.

Only my opinion but I think this is a very bad look for Gladys.

First she starts by telling us the object is to get case numbers down to zero and when it is obvious that this is never going to happen, the agenda changes to hospitalization and ICU numbers and as they rise, the focus becomes vaccination numbers.

We then get told about the modelling and that case numbers have not peaked yet and are going to get pretty bad in the next week or two which just so happens to coincide with Gladys baling out on the 11am talk fest so she is not front and centre when those numbers come.

Reassuring that she tells us that she will still be there for press conferences when required, but what is the point when she constantly waffles on and fails to answer any difficult questions that are asked of her.

 

[tigger]

I love the way that "Opinion Pieces" are now labelled "Analysis". Anyway, here's some "Analysis" by Laura Tingle (ABC News) of recent decisions taken in NSW around opening up after reaching vaccination targets.
Worth a read.
https://www.abc.net.au/news/2021-09-11/covid-nsw-roadmap-to-freedom-amid-growing-crisis/100452012

 

[Geo]

Follow the health advice follow the health advice follow the health advice.. screw that let’s get this show on the roadmap

 

[pawsandclaws1]

450 cases in Victoria today. It's very hard on Victorians who have already been through so many lockdowns.

 

[Harvey]

As things get worse, leave it to the health officials to answer questions and explain the decisions made by a government now hiding from scrutiny.

Did not have to be Gladys every day, but there should be a senior government official (dep Premier, ministers etc) fronting up to explain decisions such as why Bayside, Burwood, Georges River & strathfield are listed as LGA's of concern despite some of these suburbs having a similar number of, or less cases (over the last 4 weeks) as camden, inner west, Randwick, sutherland, the hills & Sydney.

 

[pawsandclaws1]

As things get worse, leave it to the health officials to answer questions and explain the decisions made by a government now hiding from scrutiny.

Did not have to be Gladys every day, but there should be a senior government official (dep Premier, ministers etc) fronting up to explain decisions such as why Bayside, Burwood, Georges River & strathfield are listed as LGA's of concern despite some of these suburbs having a similar number of, or less cases (over the last 4 weeks) as camden, inner west, Randwick, sutherland, the hills & Sydney.

I didn't realise Craig Kelly is unvaccinated. Let's hope he sticks to his beliefs and asks medical professionals not to risk their health and lives should he catch Covid and requires hospitalisation.

A lockdown in Sutherland LGA will not be viewed favourably by Scomo.

 

[Don Kershane]

As things get worse, leave it to the health officials to answer questions and explain the decisions made by a government now hiding from scrutiny.

Did not have to be Gladys every day, but there should be a senior government official (dep Premier, ministers etc) fronting up to explain decisions such as why Bayside, Burwood, Georges River & strathfield are listed as LGA's of concern despite some of these suburbs having a similar number of, or less cases (over the last 4 weeks) as camden, inner west, Randwick, sutherland, the hills & Sydney.

I didn't realise Craig Kelly is unvaccinated. Let's hope he sticks to his beliefs and asks medical professionals not to risk their health and lives should he catch Covid and requires hospitalisation.

A lockdown in Sutherland LGA will not be viewed favourably by Scomo.

A good swig of Domestos should fix him up.

 

[trentrunciman]

Follow the health advice follow the health advice follow the health advice.. screw that let’s get this show on the roadmap

Paris and New York here we come!

 

[TrueTiger]

As things get worse, leave it to the health officials to answer questions and explain the decisions made by a government now hiding from scrutiny.

Did not have to be Gladys every day, but there should be a senior government official (dep Premier, ministers etc) fronting up to explain decisions such as why Bayside, Burwood, Georges River & strathfield are listed as LGA's of concern despite some of these suburbs having a similar number of, or less cases (over the last 4 weeks) as camden, inner west, Randwick, sutherland, the hills & Sydney.

I didn't realise Craig Kelly is unvaccinated. Let's hope he sticks to his beliefs and asks medical professionals not to risk their health and lives should he catch Covid and requires hospitalisation.

A lockdown in Sutherland LGA will not be viewed favourably by Scomo.

A good swig of Domestos should fix him up.

Apparently it will be mandated to keep your job if your vaxxed...
unsurprisingly the govt officials are exempt from mandatory vax....

 

[Tim Sheens]

As things get worse, leave it to the health officials to answer questions and explain the decisions made by a government now hiding from scrutiny.

Did not have to be Gladys every day, but there should be a senior government official (dep Premier, ministers etc) fronting up to explain decisions such as why Bayside, Burwood, Georges River & strathfield are listed as LGA's of concern despite some of these suburbs having a similar number of, or less cases (over the last 4 weeks) as camden, inner west, Randwick, sutherland, the hills & Sydney.

I didn't realise Craig Kelly is unvaccinated. Let's hope he sticks to his beliefs and asks medical professionals not to risk their health and lives should he catch Covid and requires hospitalisation.

A lockdown in Sutherland LGA will not be viewed favourably by Scomo.

A good swig of Domestos should fix him up.

Kelly likely on the phone to rural suppliers on the hunt for horse wormer.

 

[Pascoes_barber]

As things get worse, leave it to the health officials to answer questions and explain the decisions made by a government now hiding from scrutiny.

Did not have to be Gladys every day, but there should be a senior government official (dep Premier, ministers etc) fronting up to explain decisions such as why Bayside, Burwood, Georges River & strathfield are listed as LGA's of concern despite some of these suburbs having a similar number of, or less cases (over the last 4 weeks) as camden, inner west, Randwick, sutherland, the hills & Sydney.

I didn't realise Craig Kelly is unvaccinated. Let's hope he sticks to his beliefs and asks medical professionals not to risk their health and lives should he catch Covid and requires hospitalisation.

A lockdown in Sutherland LGA will not be viewed favourably by Scomo.

A good swig of Domestos should fix him up.

Apparently it will be mandated to keep your job if your vaxxed...
unsurprisingly the govt officials are exempt from mandatory vax....

Maybe it's for 'health reasons'.

 

[TheDaBoss]

Anyone see the pics of bondi today?

Far out...

 

[Don Kershane]

As things get worse, leave it to the health officials to answer questions and explain the decisions made by a government now hiding from scrutiny.

Did not have to be Gladys every day, but there should be a senior government official (dep Premier, ministers etc) fronting up to explain decisions such as why Bayside, Burwood, Georges River & strathfield are listed as LGA's of concern despite some of these suburbs having a similar number of, or less cases (over the last 4 weeks) as camden, inner west, Randwick, sutherland, the hills & Sydney.

I didn't realise Craig Kelly is unvaccinated. Let's hope he sticks to his beliefs and asks medical professionals not to risk their health and lives should he catch Covid and requires hospitalisation.

A lockdown in Sutherland LGA will not be viewed favourably by Scomo.

A good swig of Domestos should fix him up.

Kelly likely on the phone to rural suppliers on the hunt for horse wormer.

Uses Domestos as a tooth whitener I believe.

 

[Tim Sheens]

Has anyone seen or heard of a revised version of the Doherty model, as wasn't that done back at the end of June, presented in July and relied on the assumption from Victoria last year that contract tracing was still effective and had not been completely overwhelmed?

Modelling is often referred to, though the notion that NSW is following it or the health is fallacy and only directly drawn to when it's figures are rarely favourable. We have been misled about it's actual content.