Don’t stand for the anthem!’

[stryker]

If you have "white guilt" that's your bad luck. I don't have any. I come from convict stock and in many ways my ancestors are victims too…boohoo. get on with it.

You can sit here postulating about the "poor" indigenous till you're blue in the face. Come and live in my community and tell me theyre all innocent hard done by souls. I'll take you to areas where you won't find many who haven't done time for bashing their missus or raping their kids. It's a disgrace.

The "evil white man" tries everyday to help them and they call him racist...it's a joke it really is.

 

[Flippedy]

If you have "white guilt" that's your bad luck. I don't have any. I come from convict stock and in many ways my ancestors are victims too…boohoo. get on with it.

You can sit here postulating about the "poor" indigenous till you're blue in the face. Come and live in my community and tell me theyre all innocent hard done by souls. I'll take you to areas where you won't find many who haven't done time for bashing their missus or raping their kids. It's a disgrace.

The "evil white man" tries everyday to help them and they call him racist...it's a joke it really is.

I don't have any white guilt and where did I say that they are all innocent and hard done by? I simply said that what happened to them, as a group of people, when Australia was colonised is not something I can relate to and therefore I have no real right to express opinions that dismiss and malign their right to protest or tell them to just get over it!

Of course, there are bad black people in your community and all over the country, just as there are probably a lot of bad white people, who rape and kill and spit in the face of those who want to help them, as well. This isn't about individuals, this is about what happened to a whole race of people who were going along just fine until the English decided to come along and enforce their way of life upon them.

The English brought in sugar, flour, tea, coffee, alcohol & tobacco and taught them a religious version of Christianity, western methods of discipline, rules & regulations, which made no sense to them and how to subjugate their women and children. Right there you have the foundation of the disgraceful behaviour you mention you see in your community today.

 

[stryker]

I dont need a history lesson we all know the story and we all think the English treated them poorly but you know what? If it wasn't them it would have been the Spanish or someone else. It's called progress and it was happening thousands of years before it happened here.

Its human nature…primitive cultures make way for progressive ones. Williams and Mundane and co are nothing but tryhard provacatures seeking attention. As others have correctly stated, RL has been a leader in Indigenous relations and doesn't deserve this crap.

 

[Russell]

I look myself in the mirror every morning and thank god I'm a scumbag

No need for the extra words in the quote so I took the liberty of deleting them, just suprised you mentioned God.

That's funny :laughing: :laughing: :laughing:

 

[Newtown]

Its a free country … if Joe wants to disrespect the Anthem then he can.

And if people want to call him an a_--hole or a moron, then they are free to do that also.

That's what makes Australia great.

It is so easy to protest. Many people spend their life about protesting against anything they can find. It is so much more difficult to really do something to help people than to just protest for the sake of it, ie. how many of these protesters actually go out of their way to really help people by volunteeriing their own precious time?

This is a question for you Byron Bay.

Struth stryker, I would not trust your tips at Randwick if this is the best you can come up with.

Protesting is only a quick media grab, though with big processions like Hiroshima Day we would do posters for months in advance. Protests can be very effective use of limited resources and time. I still get people mentioning my protests that took place about 30 years ago (only last night at club this happened).

Don't mention b.oody volunteering, probably done tens of thousands of hours. I taught chess for 8 years for nix, my teams were undefeated and were against professional coaches. I done Vinnies for years when was a believer. Was an altar boy when even an atheist - beat that. Did plant out of trees for the new sports centre at BB. Help bore hole for water supply for community gardens at Mullum - all the ruddy arvo under hot sun that was. Meals on wheels for years. Years of work for political party. Done a complete philosophical type magazine for couple of years - the whole show. Used to drive the old Catholic mons (priest) round for last rites etc. when I was already a raving atheist. (used to live next door to Church for yonks and we were friends). Help out the local youth community centres when ever. Join the volunteers to look after schoolies for about 5 years, few weeks each year full on.

Your comment here is exactly like when a reporter asked Gough Whitlam what qualification did he possess to head the cultural division of the UN - his response was like "Dear, you and me know that we don't have enough time to list all my qualifications for this job".

By the way did you like my protest at Grand Final about 1977 - that was a beauty.

Maybe you could do a replay of that protest in this year's GF but this time against the crazy dictator in North Korea.

 

[Byron_Bay_Fan]

It is so easy to protest. Many people spend their life about protesting against anything they can find. It is so much more difficult to really do something to help people than to just protest for the sake of it, ie. how many of these protesters actually go out of their way to really help people by volunteeriing their own precious time?

This is a question for you Byron Bay.

Struth stryker, I would not trust your tips at Randwick if this is the best you can come up with.

Protesting is only a quick media grab, though with big processions like Hiroshima Day we would do posters for months in advance. Protests can be very effective use of limited resources and time. I still get people mentioning my protests that took place about 30 years ago (only last night at club this happened).

Don't mention b.oody volunteering, probably done tens of thousands of hours. I taught chess for 8 years for nix, my teams were undefeated and were against professional coaches. I done Vinnies for years when was a believer. Was an altar boy when even an atheist - beat that. Did plant out of trees for the new sports centre at BB. Help bore hole for water supply for community gardens at Mullum - all the ruddy arvo under hot sun that was. Meals on wheels for years. Years of work for political party. Done a complete philosophical type magazine for couple of years - the whole show. Used to drive the old Catholic mons (priest) round for last rites etc. when I was already a raving atheist. (used to live next door to Church for yonks and we were friends). Help out the local youth community centres when ever. Join the volunteers to look after schoolies for about 5 years, few weeks each year full on.

Your comment here is exactly like when a reporter asked Gough Whitlam what qualification did he possess to head the cultural division of the UN - his response was like "Dear, you and me know that we don't have enough time to list all my qualifications for this job".

By the way did you like my protest at Grand Final about 1977 - that was a beauty.

Maybe you could do a replay of that protest in this year's GF but this time against the crazy dictator in North Korea.

The relevance of the anti-nuke movement to Australia was that Australia was supplying uranium that could go into nuke bombs and our political leaders were going along with the Star Wars concept that was costing billions but with many bad side effects.

At that stage there was a domino effect of one nation developing such and then their neighbour in response being feeling threatened also developed. This was going all around the planet: the USA, USSR, China, India, Pakistan etc.

North Korea seriously got into nukes after the first invasion of Iraq, Korea was named along with a few others of being part of the Evil Empire. Those nukes are their "protection" against USA & South Korea. The USA had never invaded nor bullied a country that had nuke weapons - reminding me of someone on here accusing Taupau (was it) of only whacking smaller guys.

I am getting a bit old in the tooth now, about twice as old as Robbie - maybe you could lead the way in this year's GF, I have some beaut banners I will send down.

 

[Abraham]

I can sympathise with a race who has been victim to what the aboriginals endured … but for how long can you legitimately play the victim card and cry foul? Becoming perpetual and permanent victims will not make for a better life or provide a better future for their kids.

The Aboriginals, Black Americans, and anybody else who plays the historical victim card cannot change the past, but they can influence the future by doing a few simple things like a) finishing school and getting a job, b) not getting pregnant out of wedlock, and c) staying away from drugs/alcohol.

Not hard rules to live by if you honestly want to better your lot in life.

Wallowing in sorrow and anger, or sitting down for a national anthem, is not going to get these communities out of their current situations, that's for sure.

 

[NT_Tiger]

Yep this. Comparing the more isolated cases of white children being taken from their families to what happened to the Aboriginal communities under the institutionalized White Australia Policy is just ridiculous! Sure it was traumatic and just plain wrong, but at least the children would have been fostered into families that were similar to their own with regards to language, culture, beliefs etc.

Not so the Aboriginal kids, who were forced into a whole new way of life that they just didn't understand, or couldn't grasp, and they were beaten mercilessly if they didn't comply and often ended up being sexually abused and used as slaves as they got older.

As a white person, I cannot even pretend to understand (to use GOTT's words) "the compounding trauma of losing connection to country, spiritual beliefs, culture, family and community - one by one - over time" which happened to an entire race of people. And I certainly have no right to tell their family members how they should feel about it now or malign them for standing up for themselves and not accepting the enforced status quo.

Perhaps once Sharia Law comes into effect in this country, us white Aussies may just get a taste of what it would actually be like to lose our precious way of life, our families, our beliefs, our freedoms and everything we have stood for, for over 200 years. Only then could we truly understand.

These comments, particularly the last, are very perceptive.
As I stated previously, I have spent a long time living and working in remote aboriginal communities. I have a lot of direct experience trying to work with and through cross cultural differences at several levels.

Young Aboriginal people honestly trying their hardest to hold down employment in our society are really up against it culturally. I could, but won't, give an exhaustive list of cross cultural failures at employment and education that I have personally observed. In a sense these failures we're not the fault of either the individuals concerned or the 'system' per-se, but resulted from the cross cultural gap and an inability to bridge that gap in real time.

The bottom line is that Aboriginal culture operates in a very different way to our western commercial culture and bridging the cultural gap is no mean feat. Wins are few and far between and often at an individual level. With all my years of experience I still don't have an answer and I am certain there is no 'one size fits all' solution.

Having said all that, I have no sympathy for the ongoing retro 'poor bugger me' protests. Been there done that, time to move on. In my view the people that promote that are simple grandstanders and the effect of their noise is to provide excuses for those that don't want to try to bridge the cross cultural gap. Most of the people I worked with in the communities had no time for that.

While I see it as ignorance, I can understand strykers point of view. If all you experience is the negative side of the cross cultural gap in your local community, thats what you will form your opinions on. Believe me, Ive seen that side of thing up close and personal too. However, I don't see it as contributing to a positive solution.

Thats 4 cents now
\
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For those that remember the trial game WT played in Alice Springs, the Drinkwater/Quadja comments give a tiny glimpse at our differences

 

[Nelson]

…b) not getting pregnant out of wedlock...

Maybe you should change that to "avoiding teen pregnancy" or "not getting pregnant outside of committed relationships" or something because that just makes you sound like a wowser.

 

[TCL]

Come on guys, atrocities have been happening in this world for a long time. Long before Australia was colonised and again after. Look at Europe, Middle East, Africa , China …...

We are all victims of some else's oppression. What separates one from the other is what they do after - that's not just the oppressed but also the oppressor!

its a no win argument, I think there was a logic to never discussing politics & religion in public.

 

[Newtown]

Come on guys, atrocities have been happening in this world for a long time. Long before Australia was colonised and again after. Look at Europe, Middle East, Africa , China …...

We are all victims of some else's oppression. What separates one from the other is what they do after - that's not just the oppressed but also the oppressor!

its a no win argument, I think there was a logic to never discussing politics & religion in public.

I have to agree. I arrived in Australia as a three months old child after the european island country I was born in was continually bombarded during the second world war. No need to tell you that I am 100% Aussie now as should everyone be who makes Australia their home. That is not to say that that I don't care for the plight of aboriginal people together with all refugee people who have had to leave their country of birth.

 

[Abraham]

…b) not getting pregnant out of wedlock...

Maybe you should change that to "avoiding teen pregnancy" or "not getting pregnant outside of committed relationships" or something because that just makes you sound like a wowser.

Nope, I'm happy with my version.

It says what it says for a reason.

 

[tsjonathan]

stand, dont stand, doesn't really matter.

Sometimes I stay sitting there as I mentioned before because I don't understand the anthem and think it is horrible.

 

[Fade_To_Black]

stand, dont stand, doesn't really matter.

Sometimes I stay sitting there as I mentioned before because I don't understand the anthem and think it is horrible.

Yeah, it does matter. It is called respect. What is there about our anthem that you don't understand? It is pretty self-explanatory I would have thought.

 

[old_man_tiger]

Some people look in the mirror and see a person that cares for others and even if they are more fortunate than the reflection, others enjoy seeing themselves and care little for else.

I look myself in the mirror every morning and thank god I'm not a puny whinging whining scumbag who gets offended and upset at everything that happens in life.

I'm proud I can stand on my own two feet and deal with any challenge that comes my way.

Your mirror is broken. You whinge at everything and everyone that is remotely opposed to you or any view you hold.

 

[old_man_tiger]

It's not racism in reverse, it's just straight up racism. He resents people because of the colour of their skin. I don't have to feel discriminated against to find it annoying that someone I've never met would dislike me because of the colour of my skin without having ever met me. I mean he hasn't even given me the opportunity to show him all the legitimate reasons he should dislike me…

You're conflating racism and discrimination, they're not the same.

My point could be restated this way, non indigenous Australians don't have the right to tell ATSI people how to feel about their own history. By all means people can disagree, but the level of hate when a black person is remotely controversial is a sad reflection on the people who feel that way as much as the person making the original comment.

 

[stryker]

Some people look in the mirror and see a person that cares for others and even if they are more fortunate than the reflection, others enjoy seeing themselves and care little for else.

I look myself in the mirror every morning and thank god I'm not a puny whinging whining scumbag who gets offended and upset at everything that happens in life.

I'm proud I can stand on my own two feet and deal with any challenge that comes my way.

Your mirror is broken. You whinge at everything and everyone that is remotely opposed to you or any view you hold.

Isn't that exactly what you are doing now ya old hypocrite? :roll

 

[stryker]

It's not racism in reverse, it's just straight up racism. He resents people because of the colour of their skin. I don't have to feel discriminated against to find it annoying that someone I've never met would dislike me because of the colour of my skin without having ever met me. I mean he hasn't even given me the opportunity to show him all the legitimate reasons he should dislike me…

You're conflating racism and discrimination, they're not the same.

My point could be restated this way, non indigenous Australians don't have the right to tell ATSI people how to feel about their own history. By all means people can disagree, but the level of hate when a black person is remotely controversial is a sad reflection on the people who feel that way as much as the person making the original comment.

Read what Nelson wrote again old man you've missed his point. Williams is being racist in a misguided attempt to cause disruption to an organisation that UNDERSTANDS the struggle of indigenous people's and PROMOTES unity. It officially does this twice during the season and is completely against discrimination.
So if you truly hate racism then you should not turn a blind eye to blatant cases of it.

 

[old_man_tiger]

I know I whinge from time to time, and I know I get up on the soapbox even if I'm a pita to some, I'm not trying to claim otherwise.

I read elsewhere in the thread that your views on this issue are at least partially influenced by what you observe in your local community. Those facts can't be denied.

You also made a point about colonisation being an irrefutable fact, that if it wasn't the poms it would be someone else. Also fact.

You also stated your family were early convicts and no one seems to give a rats about their hardships. I understand why that would influence your views, too.

I think you would be doing yourself a favour if you could see that the effects of colonisation everywhere in the world are very similar to what you observe in your local community. That is, at the most extreme end of the spectrum, the social, problems our ATSI communities have here are very similar to what happens in other colonised nations. You can't logically separate what your complaining about from what you are arguing against, it just doesn't make sense.

None of this means it is your ancestors fault, or that you should feel personal guilt. Convicts had no more choice in the matter than indigenous peoples. But I do believe every person can broaden their horizon to try and understand an alternate view. I'm trying to do that with your view, despite our digs at each other and the fact that I think you are fundamentally wrong.

 

[old_man_tiger]

Stryker, above is a reply to you, but I forgot to quote.