Folau could be welcomed back - Sky News

[avocadoontoast]

@cktiger well it’s hate speech because it’s a threat. Repent and live the way the bible tells you to live or go to hell. Now for me it doesn’t make a difference because I don’t believe in god and never will. But let’s say you’re a young guy or girl that is raised in a very religious household and are struggling to come to terms with your sexuality. A big sports star comes out and says if you keep going down that path you’ll go to hell. Youth suicide is already an issue and comments like that have the ability to add to the problem.

 

[GNR4LIFE]

@cktiger well it’s hate speech because it’s a threat. Repent and live the way the bible tells you to live or go to hell. Now for me it doesn’t make a difference because I don’t believe in god and never will. But let’s say you’re a young guy or girl that is raised in a very religious household and are struggling to come to terms with your sexuality. A big sports star comes out and says if you keep going down that path you’ll go to hell. Youth suicide is already an issue and comments like that have the ability to add to the problem.

I’m stuffed how anyone can say it isn’t hate speech. It’s a slur to an entire section of society that’s aimed to alienate them because it doesn’t conform with his heteronormative view of the world.

 

[pawsandclaws1]

Many just believe it is Folau being Folau. Unfortunately this is going to be used as a test case when it is adjudicated in the Commission. This could all have been avoided with some understanding from both Folau and the ARU.

 

[weststigers]

@Trevros it’s got nothing to do with left or right. It’s got to do with the fact that Folau is a moron with dangerous rhetoric. I’m glad he got fired and I hope he never gets paid to play sports ever again.

The issue is, if you call it hate speech and want him banned and fired and the rest of it, you'd need to take it to it's natural conclusion and shut down his church for the same "hateful" teachings.

It's a slippery slope and, in my view, if you're going to have religious freedom, you need to accept the views within those religions.

Comparing apples for apples. Evangelical Christians vs strict Muslims:

Folau's view is that homosexuals (and drunks, athiests etc.) are going to hell, but if they repent, they will go to heaven. He also said he does not promote harm or exclusion to homosexuals or anyone else.

The Muslim view is also that homosexuality is a sin. The hate part comes when they preach that they should be killed. This is enshrined in Sharia Law and many Muslims believe the punishment for homosexuality should be death.

There is a world of difference between what Folau posted and hate speech.

One is hate speech and the other is not.

 

[cktiger]

@cktiger well it’s hate speech because it’s a threat. Repent and live the way the bible tells you to live or go to hell. Now for me it doesn’t make a difference because I don’t believe in god and never will. But let’s say you’re a young guy or girl that is raised in a very religious household and are struggling to come to terms with your sexuality. A big sports star comes out and says if you keep going down that path you’ll go to hell. Youth suicide is already an issue and comments like that have the ability to add to the problem.

I’m stuffed how anyone can say it isn’t hate speech. It’s a slur to an entire section of society that’s aimed to alienate them because it doesn’t conform with his heteronormative view of the world.

This is what he posted.. WARNING! drunks, homosexuals, adulterers, liars, fornicators, thieves, atheists, idolaters. HELL AWAITS YOU. REPENT! ONLY JESUS SAVES
Takes a lot of prisoners there but only one group mentioned is taking offence.
I personally have three or four things to be concerned about ... but am I?
Besides, plenty of time to repent yet.

 

[cktiger]

@cktiger well it’s hate speech because it’s a threat. Repent and live the way the bible tells you to live or go to hell. Now for me it doesn’t make a difference because I don’t believe in god and never will. But let’s say you’re a young guy or girl that is raised in a very religious household and are struggling to come to terms with your sexuality. A big sports star comes out and says if you keep going down that path you’ll go to hell. Youth suicide is already an issue and comments like that have the ability to add to the problem.

I respect your view but wouldn't call it a threat - it's just his opinion and basically paraphrasing the bible.
Are we going to close churches and burn bibles?
If you think what he's saying is bad (and he's talking about the afterlife) then everybody should be jumping up and down at what some other major religions think should be done about the same people while they're alive.

 

[Tim Sheens]

But let’s say you’re a young guy or girl that is raised in a very religious household and are struggling to come to terms with your sexuality. A big sports star comes out and says if you keep going down that path you’ll go to hell. Youth suicide is already an issue and comments like that have the ability to add to the problem.

Hate speech or not, the affect on the conflicted young and particularly any of Polynesian heritage is the key issue.

Drunks, fornicators etc remarks, doubt anyone really cares as they are unlikely to be affected by such rhetoric.

I have just got back from a fellow WT supporter mate's place that I took my young bloke over to to play with his daughter. She is only 9 and has been hospitalised for most of the past few weeks treating an eating disorder, yes at only 9 years old.

Her illness is a result of verbal bullying, so yes, words matter.

 

[boonboon]

He is a dickhead and he left his team mates in the lurch and prob ruined a world cup chance for the sake of posting something offensive of social media. Add to that young homosexual islander teenagers out thier thinking about coming out may not just kill themselves thanks to Issy.

Does he have a right to his opinions yes - am i enjoying the consequences he is facing

 

[weststigers]

The hysterical left will eat itself one day. I will laugh. When there's nowhere to go, follow the sound of laughter...I'll be here with open arms

 

[newtiger]

But let’s say you’re a young guy or girl that is raised in a very religious household and are struggling to come to terms with your sexuality. A big sports star comes out and says if you keep going down that path you’ll go to hell. Youth suicide is already an issue and comments like that have the ability to add to the problem.

Hate speech or not, the affect on the conflicted young and particularly any of Polynesian heritage is the key issue.

Drunks, "fabricators" etc remarks, doubt anyone really cares as they are unlikely to be affected by such rhetoric.

I have just got back from a fellow WT supporter mate's place that I took my young bloke over to to play with his daughter. She is only 9 and has been hospitalised for most of the past few weeks treating an eating disorder, yes at only 9 years old.

Her illness is a result of verbal bullying, so yes, words matter.

 

[Tim Sheens]

@bathursttiger seems the tablet didn't agree with **fornicators**, so it fabricated another word instead.

 

[Madge]

I myself as a Coptic orthodox Christian believe that what Israel Folau did was wrong, so does the orthodox community. It portrayed our faith in a negative light and did not reflect our religion in the appropriate manner. Ironically, what he did was also against the bible, yet he preached as if he was doing good. It’s wrong In the sense that he is judging others which is not for him to do, but for God, I am aware that quite a few of you don’t believe in a religion, but just stating what it says in the bible. Not here to bible bash or anything just my 2 cents worth.

 

[JD Tiger]

@Madge Your opinions sound very tolerant and respectful. If more people expressed their religious beliefs like yourself, there would be much less drama. Nicely done.

 

[Mccarry]

But let’s say you’re a young guy or girl that is raised in a very religious household and are struggling to come to terms with your sexuality. A big sports star comes out and says if you keep going down that path you’ll go to hell. Youth suicide is already an issue and comments like that have the ability to add to the problem.

Hate speech or not, the affect on the conflicted young and particularly any of Polynesian heritage is the key issue.

Drunks, fabricators etc remarks, doubt anyone really cares as they are unlikely to be affected by such rhetoric.

I have just got back from a fellow WT supporter mate's place that I took my young bloke over to to play with his daughter. She is only 9 and has been hospitalised for most of the past few weeks treating an eating disorder, yes at only 9 years old.

Her illness is a result of verbal bullying, so yes, words matter.

Sorry to hear. I hope your mates daughter gets better.

Words are a funny thing. The wrong words can hurt. Too many words can hurt. The same word said two different ways can hurt. A lack of words can hurt most of all.

I appreciate your intent is to protect the vulnerable and good on you for explaining your beliefs on the matter.

Personally, I think regulating words in any but the most EXTREME situations is flawed and lacks any evidence of effectiveness.

 

[weststigers]

I myself as a Coptic orthodox Christian believe that what Israel Folau did was wrong, so does the orthodox community. It portrayed our faith in a negative light and did not reflect our religion in the appropriate manner. Ironically, what he did was also against the bible, yet he preached as if he was doing good. It’s wrong In the sense that he is judging others which is not for him to do, but for God, I am aware that quite a few of you don’t believe in a religion, but just stating what it says in the bible. Not here to bible bash or anything just my 2 cents worth.

Hmmm....that's interesting. The highest authorities in the Coptic Orthodox Church, including The COPTIC ORTHODOX PATRIARCHATE, don't share your assessment. http://www.coptic.net/articles/OnHomosexuality.txt

Here is an official press release as well.
http://copticchurch.net/news/press_release_homosexuality.html
***BOSTON, MA (USA)--During its Annual Clergy convention, the leaders of the Coptic Orthodox Church discussed recent issues related to homosexuality. The convention was presided by His Holiness Pope Shenouda III, Pope of Alexandria and Patriarch of the See of St. Mark. In attendance were twelve Bishops from North America, Egypt, Australia, Europe; and 180 priests from America, Canada and Australia. The issues discussed included: the legalization of same-sex marriage, the ordination of a homosexual Bishop in the Episcopalian Church in New Hampshire, and the vote of the Uniting Church in Australia to allow the ordination of any homosexual clergy.***

***Based on the teachings of the Lord Jesus Christ, and teachings of the Old and New Testaments, the clergy strongly condemn such activities.***

***Our Lord Jesus Christ spoke against homosexuality when He made reference to the abomination of Sodom and Gomorrah (Lk. 10:12; Gen. 19:24; Jude 7). Similarly, St. Paul warns, "Do not be deceived. Neither fornicators nor idolaters, nor adulterers, nor homosexuals, nor sodomites, nor thieves... will inherit the Kingdom of God" (1 Cor. 6:9,10. See also Lev. 18:22; Rom. 1:26-32).***
***Same-sex marriage is against the Divine Plan for marriage and its purpose of procreation. "But from the beginning of the creation, God 'made them male and female.' For this reason a man shall leave his father and mother and be joined to his wife" (Mk. 10:6,7. See also Eph. 5:31; Gen. 1:27; Gen. 2:24; Matt. 19:4-6).
Therefore, those who are ordained for church ministry must uphold the teachings of the Holy Bible. They should be: "...blameless... of good behavior... able to teach..." (1 Tim. 3:2). Consequently, we disapprove of and condemn the ordination of homosexual clergy, active or not.***
***These movements not only contradict biblical teachings, but also pose a serious threat to the stability of the family unit, the morals of society, the purity of the Church, and the future of ecumenical unity. While we condemn homosexuality, we invite those who are under this sin to repent out of concern for their eternal life.***

***We applaud the courageous voices of those who oppose such activities both in and outside those churches, and call on all churches to obey the Biblical teachings without compromise or change.***

I mean, I'm not having a go at you, but we've got to be fair dinkum when we speak about these things. I appreciate you don't share the views above, but how did you come to the conclusion that the Coptic Orthodox church is tolerant to homosexuals?

They even held an event to increase awareness on how to achieve a "speedy recovery" from being gay https://ww.egyptindependent.com/coptic-church-organizes-volcano-homosexuality-conference/

I wasn't able to find any official church stance supporting your comment.

 

[dazza65]

To some of the earlier posters, I understand the issue around why only the gays (and all the Dudley’s) have an issue and the drunks etc don’t is that all of the other “sins” are choices, whilst being gay is a not a choice vis a vis giving it up.

 

[Tim Sheens]

I myself as a Coptic orthodox Christian believe that what Israel Folau did was wrong, so does the orthodox community. It portrayed our faith in a negative light and did not reflect our religion in the appropriate manner

Great post for mine as it reflects both your individual opinion and the general thoughts of the "community", in this case your particular religious section, which forms part of the greater one. I also think it is about time the leaders of all communities began properly representing them in a modern manner, with those such as politicians not abstaining or voting against the wishes of their community on moral matters, being of paramount importance.

 

[Madge]

@weststigers
1. I did not say anything about the church being tolerant to homosexuality in fact its quite the opposite, We do not tolerate the act of homosexuality, but we respect the people for who they are (well at least we should, yet some like to talk about it and judge people that are). "Love your neighbour as yourself."

2. In terms of the "harsh" words said in those verses are used to show the severity of sin and the detrimental effects it has on one person, sin is considered death or separation from Christ.

3. We believe that we were born in the image and likeness of Christ, and that if that 'natural' element of us is taken away, it distorts that concept of being created in the image of God.

I hope that somewhat answers your question, if you have more questions feel free to ask, and ill answer to the best of my knowledge.

 

[Madge]

@dazza65 Are you saying that being gay is not a choice? if so, I highly disagree. In other words you are saying that gay people are born like that, which is both biologically and spiritually incorrect. The extent you can go to is saying that you can be born into it rather than being born with it (nurture), which makes people more susceptible to sin than others. Other than that I think that it is definitely a choice. I might have misunderstood your question, apologies if so.

 

[avocadoontoast]

@Madge gay people are born like that. It isn’t a choice.