Help me (and others) keep faith in Madge...

[Lauren]

I agree with your comment @Honkylips. Look at who we played.
We've been leaking 2-3 tries in the first 10-20mins of our past few games, so it shouldn't have been all too surprising. Then we had a slight shuffle in the team at last minute.
One of our better defensive players in McIntyre went down within minutes.
Plus defending with one less player will always be taxing on the overall team.
Before Twal went don't I was honestly expecting it to 40-20 so it ended up being thereabouts anyway.

Though I think they're a lot similar in their mental attitude to us, Todd Payten had a way better attacking side with some huge bodies - their forwards were similar to a Cowboys or Knights pack - and can match it with anyone on the day.
I agree we need someone brought in for attack but our defence is crap and deserves all the negative comments and Madge's attention.

The game is a lot different this year, than it was for the team playing under Ivan Cleary 2 years ago @Jay
@Goanna57 there's been instability in the team all year and our spine managed to play a lot more cohesive when settled or with specific players in certain positions.
So bringing in fringe players such as AD, Luciano Leilua or young AJ shouldn't be perceived as an automatic strengthening of the team. BJ Leilua is another story but some things weren't his fault, but I agree his whole effort and attitude is disappointing.

Agree @Geo, look at the bloke we have on loan...and will be gone after next game.
He competed each and every single minute of the game despite being off his feet. Yes he's still learning the ropes (in terms of where he is career wise) but he was a pillar for team motivation, and certainly shows signs of a future leader.

The one positive I see from lastnight is it helps show where we really are and where we need to go or be.
Why is Brooks even being brought up??

 

[hsvjones]

I still support Madge 100% of what he is doing...

Lets not forget this team is mainly made up of players he did not buy and if he had no Reynolds, Packer, Mbye, McQueen and Farah Salary cap breach he would have around 2.5 Mil to buy Players that suit his style and defensive structure..

Lets remember these current players have been bad for years now and he is working his butt off to remove the dead wood but you cannot just tap them on the shoulder and say goodbye due to this thing called a "Contract". He has pretty much given everyone a go this year to try and prove themselves and some have but not many. (we have used the most players of any team this year)
He needs 2 more years to get this roster right and turnover the unwanted players and then people can start to judge.
Ask yourself with the squad we have had this last 2 years even a Bennett or Belly could not of got them firing. Go back through all the game day treads and see all the comments about the average team we have and how we need to move them on but as you can all agree he cannot because no one wants them.. So how about we at least give him a chance with a squad that he has picked to prove himself as firing him puts us back a few years again..
You don't win a comp in ESL, NRL and be the National coach by mistake so clearly he has the abilities to develop and win...

 

[Blacknwhite]

There was talk on forum of extending madges contract asap. I think it's kinda madness. If his third year is like this I wouldn't want to sign him for ages like Seibold. Hopefully next year it comes good. Our defence is much poorer than IC, our team spirit and Brooks seems poorer than ICs year. No extension for me till he earns it.

The Madge extension has more to do with taking a stance against an underperforming yet opinionated playing group. This playing group has cost 3 coaches their jobs, had a fourth leave. 5th time now, the players have via the boardroom, been issued an ultimatum.

 

[Strider]

True I guess Brad was struggling at Eels wasn't he, till he started to form his own roster with players like Brown, Moses Fergo etc. Maybe it is best to just give him one year extension.

 

[Tigerbuck63]

To me he looks like a coach who has run out of ideas. From the point he went postal in the dressing room and abused a chair, he has been struggling. I also think the so called “honesty” session has thrown him as well. I sought of thought that player communication was an area where he excelled and to be publicly called out on it may be bit confronting? He is desperate to shed some players and bring some new talent which is fair enough. I hope it works for him because after that, I am not sure what he’ll do?

I think we should all just hold our nerve. We didn’t achieve this level of mediocrity in 5 minutes, so why should we expect to turn it around in 5 minutes. Our older, more experienced hang abouts are not living up to their price tags. And are certainly not showing any quality leadership for younger players. They will be gone over the next 2 seasons along with our precious goal of finishing ninth. This level of mediocrity has taken nine seasons to establish.

Madge is in his 2nd season and things have actually gone backwards.
When I rate this season compared to last we seem a very ill disciplined side as another din bin last night!
His communication very poor with Benji and lacks leadership qualities, difficult conversation I agree but harps in about standards and needs to set the benchmark himself.
Agree needs more time personally I give him two years but he also needs to mature and get better himself if has the same expectations of the squad.

 

[Tigerbuck63]

True I guess Brad was struggling at Eels wasn't he, till he started to form his own roster with players like Brown, Moses Fergo etc. Maybe it is best to just give him one year extension.

There is no excuses then if he has the players he wants, hardest part will be attracting players and a mixture of juniors that want to play got the coach, each other and the club with their supporters.

 

[izotope]

To those defending Madge, I appreciate the posts and I 'want' to believe...

But can anyone answer the following:

1. What is our defensive structure? They just seem to rush up and that is it. No cohesion at all. Airport lane holes have been there all year without any adjustment. Surely the coach had to react?

More importantly...and this is what concerns me the most...there seems to be absolutely ZERO attempt to get our spine ready for 2021. This period was a crucial chance to try a few things. Instead we got the ancient mariners who are not even wanted for 2021.

We are almost in October 2020 and our 2021 spine is:
1. no one knows
6 and 7 brooks will be one / no one has a clue who the other will be / massive concern.
9. Liddle / Simpkins

Penrith used their dead rubber games to experiment in 2019 and it helped them start 2020 well and build. Madge has done absolutely nothing to use this time to get a head start on 2021.

It's not defensive structure, they have shown they know how to defend over multiple games.

All attitude, and it all stems from the warriors game as when it changed. My mail was alot of players got the poo's that garner was dropped as he is very popular in the team.

So you back the players or the coach

 

[avocadoontoast]

I still support Madge 100% of what he is doing...

Lets not forget this team is mainly made up of players he did not buy and if he had no Reynolds, Packer, Mbye, McQueen and Farah Salary cap breach he would have around 2.5 Mil to buy Players that suit his style and defensive structure..

Lets remember these current players have been bad for years now and he is working his butt off to remove the dead wood but you cannot just tap them on the shoulder and say goodbye due to this thing called a "Contract". He has pretty much given everyone a go this year to try and prove themselves and some have but not many. (we have used the most players of any team this year)
He needs 2 more years to get this roster right and turnover the unwanted players and then people can start to judge.
Ask yourself with the squad we have had this last 2 years even a Bennett or Belly could not of got them firing. Go back through all the game day treads and see all the comments about the average team we have and how we need to move them on but as you can all agree he cannot because no one wants them.. So how about we at least give him a chance with a squad that he has picked to prove himself as firing him puts us back a few years again..
You don't win a comp in ESL, NRL and be the National coach by mistake so clearly he has the abilities to develop and win...

Don’t look at what he’s done in the past, judge him by what he’s doing now. He has an inability to get the roster performing, and in fact they are going backwards. The ‘not his team’ argument is nonsense. No one is expecting us to win the whole thing, but an improvement with the current roster is a realistic expectation. It is more his team this year than last year and we are playing worse this year.

He might turn it around next year but so far he hasn’t done a good job.

 

[Tigerbuck63]

Put Madge aside for a moment.

What other available\attainable coach would bring us any better success in 2021?

Madge will be here for the structural rebuild this organisation needs from a player/cultural perspective.

While we've been in the comp for 21yrs - the last few years have seen things finally achieved which should have been achieved early in our existence.

- Majority ownership
- profitability
- state of the art training facilities

Now its about translating the above into success on the field (Dare I say, made easier because of the items stated above).

Keep the faith and see the improvements that have been made.

Salary cap penalty 2 years $670k
No real home ground structure unable to send off departing players at one home ground,
Membership numbers static of course backwards this year understandable
Won’t play finals again longest club without
Culture or leaks remain and unstable with media

I doubt that we will be profitable this year?

In reality things have not improved, we only keep the faith because we think things can only look up, issue will be with no much success the next generation will not support a club that remains static.

 

[ElleryHanley]

To those defending Madge, I appreciate the posts and I 'want' to believe...

But can anyone answer the following:

1. What is our defensive structure? They just seem to rush up and that is it. No cohesion at all. Airport lane holes have been there all year without any adjustment. Surely the coach had to react?

More importantly...and this is what concerns me the most...there seems to be absolutely ZERO attempt to get our spine ready for 2021. This period was a crucial chance to try a few things. Instead we got the ancient mariners who are not even wanted for 2021.

We are almost in October 2020 and our 2021 spine is:
1. no one knows
6 and 7 brooks will be one / no one has a clue who the other will be / massive concern.
9. Liddle / Simpkins

Penrith used their dead rubber games to experiment in 2019 and it helped them start 2020 well and build. Madge has done absolutely nothing to use this time to get a head start on 2021.

It's not defensive structure, they have shown they know how to defend over multiple games.

All attitude, and it all stems from the warriors game as when it changed. **My mail was alot of players got the poo's that garner was dropped as he is very popular in the team.**

So you back the players or the coach

If that is true re Garner...then we need a whole new team. Garner, aka the turnstile, has been guilty of one or two arm grab misses a game costing tries. I don't care if he is popular. Hopefully he is off to Manly soon 'if' that is true.

 

[Tigerbuck63]

There was talk on forum of extending madges contract asap. I think it's kinda madness. If his third year is like this I wouldn't want to sign him for ages like Seibold. Hopefully next year it comes good. Our defence is much poorer than IC, our team spirit and Brooks seems poorer than ICs year. No extension for me till he earns it.

I agree with extending 1 more year, reasons.
Accountable for own roster
Sends a clear message to players club is backing the coach.
Currently not many better alternative coaches
But can also see your logic in not wanting to extend after past few weeks

 

[ElleryHanley]

To those defending Madge, I appreciate the posts and I 'want' to believe...

But can anyone answer the following:

1. What is our defensive structure? They just seem to rush up and that is it. No cohesion at all. Airport lane holes have been there all year without any adjustment. Surely the coach had to react?

More importantly...and this is what concerns me the most...there seems to be absolutely ZERO attempt to get our spine ready for 2021. This period was a crucial chance to try a few things. Instead we got the ancient mariners who are not even wanted for 2021.

We are almost in October 2020 and our 2021 spine is:
1. no one knows
6 and 7 brooks will be one / no one has a clue who the other will be / massive concern.
9. Liddle / Simpkins

Penrith used their dead rubber games to experiment in 2019 and it helped them start 2020 well and build. Madge has done absolutely nothing to use this time to get a head start on 2021.

Here me out .. what if that was a game to showcase potential suitors of our dead wood.

Mate the defence is crap for 2 reasons . The middles don’t put their body in front , and the down benjis side don’t seem to trust each other . Ie. trust that the person can make the 1 on 1 stop. You watch brooks’ side . This used to happen to him all the time . Line breaks galore . Then he got his technique sorted , and they leave him to make the tackle . It doesn’t work all the time , as nothing is perfect , but if you trust your inside man , you can slide onto the shape forming in front of you , as if the ball player hits the under run , the bloke inside has that covered . It’s about trust and intent. There’s no trust , which leads to lack of intent , as you’re on the back foot thinking way too much .

If it was a showcase...then the show was very ugly.

Reality is any team after Reynolds and Packer would know by now what they offer / what they don't offer.

IMO it should have been used to get some rookies and kids game time. Build some combos for 2021.

 

[Tigerbuck63]

To those defending Madge, I appreciate the posts and I 'want' to believe...

But can anyone answer the following:

1. What is our defensive structure? They just seem to rush up and that is it. No cohesion at all. Airport lane holes have been there all year without any adjustment. Surely the coach had to react?

More importantly...and this is what concerns me the most...there seems to be absolutely ZERO attempt to get our spine ready for 2021. This period was a crucial chance to try a few things. Instead we got the ancient mariners who are not even wanted for 2021.

We are almost in October 2020 and our 2021 spine is:
1. no one knows
6 and 7 brooks will be one / no one has a clue who the other will be / massive concern.
9. Liddle / Simpkins

Penrith used their dead rubber games to experiment in 2019 and it helped them start 2020 well and build. Madge has done absolutely nothing to use this time to get a head start on 2021.

Great post sums up perfectly that Madge lacks any real Vision, plus all I have heard today is Tigers trounced by storm, and very short press conference.

 

[cochise]

Put Madge aside for a moment.

What other available\attainable coach would bring us any better success in 2021?

Madge will be here for the structural rebuild this organisation needs from a player/cultural perspective.

While we've been in the comp for 21yrs - the last few years have seen things finally achieved which should have been achieved early in our existence.

- Majority ownership
- profitability
- state of the art training facilities

Now its about translating the above into success on the field (Dare I say, made easier because of the items stated above).

Keep the faith and see the improvements that have been made.

Salary cap penalty 2 years $670k
No real home ground structure unable to send off departing players at one home ground,
Membership numbers static of course backwards this year understandable
Won’t play finals again longest club without
Culture or leaks remain and unstable with media

I doubt that we will be profitable this year?

In reality things have not improved, we only keep the faith because we think things can only look up, issue will be with no much success the next generation will not support a club that remains static.

The club is on target to make a profit or a small loss this year, we have benefitted from Wests Ashfield paying their contribution upfront at the start of the year.

The majority of members pledged their membership to the club during the covid crisis. The club is looking into avenues to increase membership.

The leaks from the club have been minimal the last couple of years, only to blow up the last 3 weeks.

The Farah role was messed up terribly and hopefully the club has learnt from that.

9 years is much too long to wait for us to play finals.

I think the club is wary of making the wrong decision in regards to home ground but I believe that decision is coming.

 

[Tigerbuck63]

To me he looks like a coach who has run out of ideas. From the point he went postal in the dressing room and abused a chair, he has been struggling. I also think the so called “honesty” session has thrown him as well. I sought of thought that player communication was an area where he excelled and to be publicly called out on it may be bit confronting? He is desperate to shed some players and bring some new talent which is fair enough. I hope it works for him because after that, I am not sure what he’ll do?

I think we should all just hold our nerve. We didn’t achieve this level of mediocrity in 5 minutes, so why should we expect to turn it around in 5 minutes. Our older, more experienced hang abouts are not living up to their price tags. And are certainly not showing any quality leadership for younger players. They will be gone over the next 2 seasons along with our precious goal of finishing ninth. This level of mediocrity has taken nine seasons to establish.

Madge is in his 2nd season and things have actually gone backwards.
When I rate this season compared to last we seem a very ill disciplined side as another din bin last night!
His communication very poor with Benji and lacks leadership qualities, difficult conversation I agree but harps in about standards and needs to set the benchmark himself.
Agree needs more time personally I give him two years but he also needs to mature and get better himself if has the same expectations of the squad.

It is very hard to have that conversation when it is already splashed over the papers the day before the scheduled meeting.

He had made the decision, someone around him was in the know and leaked it. when confronted by Benji from reports said give me 24 hours to think it over. I am assuming Benji told Manager and story was leaked??

Conversation should have been this is my decision moving forward and the reasons why when confronted. Leadership nil sane as what we have on the field.

 

[cochise]

To those defending Madge, I appreciate the posts and I 'want' to believe...

But can anyone answer the following:

1. What is our defensive structure? They just seem to rush up and that is it. No cohesion at all. Airport lane holes have been there all year without any adjustment. Surely the coach had to react?

More importantly...and this is what concerns me the most...there seems to be absolutely ZERO attempt to get our spine ready for 2021. This period was a crucial chance to try a few things. Instead we got the ancient mariners who are not even wanted for 2021.

We are almost in October 2020 and our 2021 spine is:
1. no one knows
6 and 7 brooks will be one / no one has a clue who the other will be / massive concern.
9. Liddle / Simpkins

Penrith used their dead rubber games to experiment in 2019 and it helped them start 2020 well and build. Madge has done absolutely nothing to use this time to get a head start on 2021.

Here me out .. what if that was a game to showcase potential suitors of our dead wood.

Mate the defence is crap for 2 reasons . The middles don’t put their body in front , and the down benjis side don’t seem to trust each other . Ie. trust that the person can make the 1 on 1 stop. You watch brooks’ side . This used to happen to him all the time . Line breaks galore . Then he got his technique sorted , and they leave him to make the tackle . It doesn’t work all the time , as nothing is perfect , but if you trust your inside man , you can slide onto the shape forming in front of you , as if the ball player hits the under run , the bloke inside has that covered . It’s about trust and intent. There’s no trust , which leads to lack of intent , as you’re on the back foot thinking way too much .

If it was a showcase...then the show was very ugly.

Reality is any team after Reynolds and Packer would know by now what they offer / what they don't offer.

IMO it should have been used to get some rookies and kids game time. Build some combos for 2021.

I don't like setting kids up for failure and putting them into a losing side when they haven't played any football since February is asking too much in my opinion. Get them training in their roles and give them the preseason to and trials to get ready for their debuts.

 

[Tigerbuck63]

To me he looks like a coach who has run out of ideas. From the point he went postal in the dressing room and abused a chair, he has been struggling. I also think the so called “honesty” session has thrown him as well. I sought of thought that player communication was an area where he excelled and to be publicly called out on it may be bit confronting? He is desperate to shed some players and bring some new talent which is fair enough. I hope it works for him because after that, I am not sure what he’ll do?

I think we should all just hold our nerve. We didn’t achieve this level of mediocrity in 5 minutes, so why should we expect to turn it around in 5 minutes. Our older, more experienced hang abouts are not living up to their price tags. And are certainly not showing any quality leadership for younger players. They will be gone over the next 2 seasons along with our precious goal of finishing ninth. This level of mediocrity has taken nine seasons to establish.

**Madge is in his 2nd season and things have actually gone backwards.**
When I rate this season compared to last we seem a very ill disciplined side as another din bin last night!
His communication very poor with Benji and lacks leadership qualities, difficult conversation I agree but harps in about standards and needs to set the benchmark himself.
Agree needs more time personally I give him two years but he also needs to mature and get better himself if has the same expectations of the squad.

Why do people continue to ignore that we are playing in a reformatted competition where speed, size and attacking ability are more determinant of a team's outcome.

Every WT supporter knows that not all of our players are suited to this style and unfortunately it shows. No offence but probably only Brooks, Nofo, Grant, Liddle, AJ(on his day), Aloiai and a couple of others are but even they're still struggling to adapt due to overall strength/quality of the team.

Every team is playing in a revised competition you can only compare how we adapt compared to others, Titans good example now 9th.

Agree not all players will buy in but also coach needs to understand that his way is also not the right way he should have learned that from his exit at Souths even after a premiership.

 

[twentyforty]

To me he looks like a coach who has run out of ideas. From the point he went postal in the dressing room and abused a chair, he has been struggling. I also think the so called “honesty” session has thrown him as well. I sought of thought that player communication was an area where he excelled and to be publicly called out on it may be bit confronting? He is desperate to shed some players and bring some new talent which is fair enough. I hope it works for him because after that, I am not sure what he’ll do?

I think we should all just hold our nerve. We didn’t achieve this level of mediocrity in 5 minutes, so why should we expect to turn it around in 5 minutes. Our older, more experienced hang abouts are not living up to their price tags. And are certainly not showing any quality leadership for younger players. They will be gone over the next 2 seasons along with our precious goal of finishing ninth. This level of mediocrity has taken nine seasons to establish.

Madge is in his 2nd season and things have actually gone backwards.
When I rate this season compared to last we seem a very ill disciplined side as another din bin last night!
His communication very poor with Benji and lacks leadership qualities, difficult conversation I agree but harps in about standards and needs to set the benchmark himself.
Agree needs more time personally I give him two years but he also needs to mature and get better himself if has the same expectations of the squad.

I reckon you could almost not count this season. In many ways, due to circumstances outside the control of players and coaches, it’s been a season from hell. Particularly for the clubs already going through other challenges. I was full of optimism at the start of the season, I had WT sneaking into a top 8 spot. At the same time I was willing to give the new coach 3 years before making any judgment on his ability to turn around the fortunes of this bunch of misfits. ?
Now I’m reassessing, I think I should give him 4 years.

 

[cochise]

To me he looks like a coach who has run out of ideas. From the point he went postal in the dressing room and abused a chair, he has been struggling. I also think the so called “honesty” session has thrown him as well. I sought of thought that player communication was an area where he excelled and to be publicly called out on it may be bit confronting? He is desperate to shed some players and bring some new talent which is fair enough. I hope it works for him because after that, I am not sure what he’ll do?

I think we should all just hold our nerve. We didn’t achieve this level of mediocrity in 5 minutes, so why should we expect to turn it around in 5 minutes. Our older, more experienced hang abouts are not living up to their price tags. And are certainly not showing any quality leadership for younger players. They will be gone over the next 2 seasons along with our precious goal of finishing ninth. This level of mediocrity has taken nine seasons to establish.

Madge is in his 2nd season and things have actually gone backwards.
When I rate this season compared to last we seem a very ill disciplined side as another din bin last night!
His communication very poor with Benji and lacks leadership qualities, difficult conversation I agree but harps in about standards and needs to set the benchmark himself.
Agree needs more time personally I give him two years but he also needs to mature and get better himself if has the same expectations of the squad.

It is very hard to have that conversation when it is already splashed over the papers the day before the scheduled meeting.

He had made the decision, someone around him was in the know and leaked it. when confronted by Benji from reports said give me 24 hours to think it over. I am assuming Benji told Manager and story was leaked??

Conversation should have been this is my decision moving forward and the reasons why when confronted. Leadership nil sane as what we have on the field.

There is one thing about all the articles about Madge that I can't reconcile. Apparently he is too tough on the players, I have know a lot of tough managers and coaches over the years and not one of them had trouble having a tough conversation. In fact most of them were much too blunt and weren't able to deliver bad news in a manner that didn't get people offside.

 

[ElleryHanley]

To those defending Madge, I appreciate the posts and I 'want' to believe...

But can anyone answer the following:

1. What is our defensive structure? They just seem to rush up and that is it. No cohesion at all. Airport lane holes have been there all year without any adjustment. Surely the coach had to react?

More importantly...and this is what concerns me the most...there seems to be absolutely ZERO attempt to get our spine ready for 2021. This period was a crucial chance to try a few things. Instead we got the ancient mariners who are not even wanted for 2021.

We are almost in October 2020 and our 2021 spine is:
1. no one knows
6 and 7 brooks will be one / no one has a clue who the other will be / massive concern.
9. Liddle / Simpkins

Penrith used their dead rubber games to experiment in 2019 and it helped them start 2020 well and build. Madge has done absolutely nothing to use this time to get a head start on 2021.

Here me out .. what if that was a game to showcase potential suitors of our dead wood.

Mate the defence is crap for 2 reasons . The middles don’t put their body in front , and the down benjis side don’t seem to trust each other . Ie. trust that the person can make the 1 on 1 stop. You watch brooks’ side . This used to happen to him all the time . Line breaks galore . Then he got his technique sorted , and they leave him to make the tackle . It doesn’t work all the time , as nothing is perfect , but if you trust your inside man , you can slide onto the shape forming in front of you , as if the ball player hits the under run , the bloke inside has that covered . It’s about trust and intent. There’s no trust , which leads to lack of intent , as you’re on the back foot thinking way too much .

If it was a showcase...then the show was very ugly.

Reality is any team after Reynolds and Packer would know by now what they offer / what they don't offer.

IMO it should have been used to get some rookies and kids game time. Build some combos for 2021.

I don't like setting kids up for failure and putting them into a losing side when they haven't played any football since February is asking too much in my opinion. Get them training in their roles and give them the preseason to and trials to get ready for their debuts.

Valid points.

Who do you see as our spine in 2021 mate?