Its a player problem

[innsaneink]

If we have reached a point where there is alot of finger pointing within the ranks, we are in trouble.

I understand what you mean but I also get the shits seeing players keep making stupid errors and team mates going over to give them a cuddle. Teams with a winning culture and set standards can afford to do that but for us I think we need to strip things back and drive some standards about what is accepted and what isn’t. We don’t need to pull apart but there should be enough buy in from players to understand when you stuff up repeatedly it’s not acceptable.

Defensive effort is not as clear cut as ball handling. You can deny a lack of defensive effort whereas u can’t deny a handling error. I feel the finger pointing would be more around defense.


Keeping possession is part of your defence. Not giving away easy balls, dropping passes, stepping into touch, sloppy play the balls. It's all part of the same problem. It's on the players.

Yeah I see both points of view and agree they are linked. Still irritates me seeing the pats on the head etc when someone cocks up.

Happens in all sports these days. It’s one of the things my family laughs at. Good drop ball there, great miss, fantastic stuff up - well done.

You do know why they do it though?

 

[Ultimate Warrior]

I still think my idea to have the sword called Frostmourne in the dressing room would help with motivation….

 

[mike]

If we have reached a point where there is alot of finger pointing within the ranks, we are in trouble.

I understand what you mean but I also get the shits seeing players keep making stupid errors and team mates going over to give them a cuddle. Teams with a winning culture and set standards can afford to do that but for us I think we need to strip things back and drive some standards about what is accepted and what isn’t. We don’t need to pull apart but there should be enough buy in from players to understand when you stuff up repeatedly it’s not acceptable.

Defensive effort is not as clear cut as ball handling. You can deny a lack of defensive effort whereas u can’t deny a handling error. I feel the finger pointing would be more around defense.


Keeping possession is part of your defence. Not giving away easy balls, dropping passes, stepping into touch, sloppy play the balls. It's all part of the same problem. It's on the players.

Yeah I see both points of view and agree they are linked. Still irritates me seeing the pats on the head etc when someone cocks up.

Happens in all sports these days. It’s one of the things my family laughs at. Good drop ball there, great miss, fantastic stuff up - well done.

You do know why they do it though?

Of course. I do it as well, but when you look from the outside it's funny.

 

[Tiger_Fanatic3]

Don’t be too hard on the boys, they were only being cautious and observing the COVID safe rule and keeping the 1.5m distance against Melbourne 😂

 

[mike]

Don’t be too hard on the boys, they were only being cautious and observing the COVID safe rule and keeping the 1.5m distance against Melbourne 😂

Now that's genuinely funny.

 

[Tiger_Fanatic3]

Don’t be too hard on the boys, they were only being cautious and observing the COVID safe rule and keeping the 1.5m distance against Melbourne ?


Now that's genuinely funny.

?

 

[rustycage]

4 tries down our right side defence early last night were not the middles fault. Noffa, JTJ and Luciano were as bad as anything I've seen defensively.


I just watched them again. First one from dummy half was laziness from LL. Mbye, JTJ and Noffo were all marked up (in fact there was still a winger wider because Storm had an edge back rower running a line). If the Jet or Nofo come in they'd be crucified on here.

Try two was off the cuff play from Storm. Nofo misses JAC badly but you can see he's in two minds about if Joffo is going to get either Hines or the 12.



The Finucane try, LL actually took no-one and ran between two of their players. One of the commentators on Fox was pretty critical of this. I felt sorry for Joffo because I thought he was having a decent crack last night



The Munster try, LL looks a bit late and it could probably be argued that DL is poorly positioned.



I'm wondering if the changes to defensive structures a couple of week ago (not jamming in as much) has left the middle a bit looser. Whilst the tries were all on our right edge I don't think JTJ can be blamed for any. Nofo and Mbye maybe one and LL definitely a couple.

After being down 30-0 after 17 minutes, only conceding 10 more before half time was realistically better than I was expecting.

What that spells out is very, very poor communication between all of those guys. Not anywhere near good enough. How Noff gets away with this rubbish for years has me baffled. Don't get me wrong, I like the guy, but holy crap he's been in a lot of messed up back lines defensively.

 

[Alex Seyfarth's #1 Fan]

I agree that it is a player problem. It only takes a couple of bad eggs to show up to a game to spoil the bunch. Sometimes it is our better players who do this as well. Luciano Leilua looked totally disinterested last night. He's been one of our best players this season. The guys who are having a dig look around and can't figure out what's going wrong. It feels like every so often the players sabotage our performances.

 

[BAGNF05]

Don’t be too hard on the boys, they were only being cautious and observing the COVID safe rule and keeping the 1.5m distance against Melbourne 😂

And god bless Luciano, looks like he’s putting a lot of fast food joints back in business after a tough ride during the Pandemic. The Sunny Coast economy really benefited from his custom.

 

[BAGNF05]

4 tries down our right side defence early last night were not the middles fault. Noffa, JTJ and Luciano were as bad as anything I've seen defensively.


I just watched them again. First one from dummy half was laziness from LL. Mbye, JTJ and Noffo were all marked up (in fact there was still a winger wider because Storm had an edge back rower running a line). If the Jet or Nofo come in they'd be crucified on here.

Try two was off the cuff play from Storm. Nofo misses JAC badly but you can see he's in two minds about if Joffo is going to get either Hines or the 12.



The Finucane try, LL actually took no-one and ran between two of their players. One of the commentators on Fox was pretty critical of this. I felt sorry for Joffo because I thought he was having a decent crack last night



The Munster try, LL looks a bit late and it could probably be argued that DL is poorly positioned.



I'm wondering if the changes to defensive structures a couple of week ago (not jamming in as much) has left the middle a bit looser. Whilst the tries were all on our right edge I don't think JTJ can be blamed for any. Nofo and Mbye maybe one and LL definitely a couple.

After being down 30-0 after 17 minutes, only conceding 10 more before half time was realistically better than I was expecting.


What that spells out is very, very poor communication between all of those guys. Not anywhere near good enough. How Noff gets away with this rubbish for years has me baffled. Don't get me wrong, I like the guy, but holy crap he's been in a lot of messed up back lines defensively.

I watch these tries very closely during and after games. The most damning part is the complete lack of effort after LL gets beaten in defense. He just stops or goes into a gentle trot. He clearly doesn’t care and who knows if there’s an ankle tap or something he could actually play a role if he scrambles. Watch the one where Hughes goes through, I swear Luci waits until he’s through to bother looking interested. Makes me livid.

 

[voice_of_reason]

What that spells out is very, very poor communication between all of those guys. Not anywhere near good enough. How Noff gets away with this rubbish for years has me baffled. Don't get me wrong, I like the guy, but holy crap he's been in a lot of messed up back lines defensively.

The fact we changed defensive shape a few weeks ago suggests the backs have been following instructions but it hasn't been working (obviously). The coaching staff have made changes and it appeared to be working - at least against the lesser teams. I certainly agree we've had some messed up backlines over the years but that doesn't abrogate - not put all blame on, Nofo alone.

As for communications, isn't the fullback meant to be responsible for communicating defensive shape near the line?

What worries me now is that LL is being shown up as a poor defender because the outer edges aren't jamming in to help. I don't believe he's an 80 minute player and he's struggling with lateral movement. He's slow to react (as evidenced in the Brandon Smith and Munster tries).

I'm also concerned he's not on board since the talk of Joey being unwanted. I've been a big fan of his the past 18 months but I'm now starting to think a back row of Garner and TPJ (or Blore) would be more reliable.

 

[Tiger_Bond]

Has anybody noticed that Wests Tigers has gotten worse as soon as Wests Ashfield has assumed full control of the club or is it a coincidence

I think it's quite disgusting and disrespectful that you are prepared to say this.

Would you like me to tell you what to do with yourself like I told another member of this forum….but I won’t out of respect for the mods

 

[gallagher]

Has anybody noticed that Wests Tigers has gotten worse as soon as Wests Ashfield has assumed full control of the club or is it a coincidence

I think it's quite disgusting and disrespectful that you are prepared to say this.

Would you like me to tell you what to do with yourself like I told another member of this forum….but I won’t out of respect for the mods

2 strikes. ?

 

[weststigerman]

Madge is signing these players.

It's clear we've gone for a physically strong team over footy smarts which is what Sheens went for when he was here. The game has changed and become much faster, while we're stuck with big, strong players who have no agility.

Stefano, Musgrove, LL, BJ, Talau, Tamou are all big but are not agile.

 

[tigeress]

Madge is signing these players.

It's clear we've gone for a physically strong team over footy smarts which is what Sheens went for when he was here. The game has changed and become much faster, while we're stuck with big, strong players who have no agility.

Stefano, Musgrove, LL, BJ, Talau, Tamou are all big but are not agile.

What's happened to Musgrove.....is he always injured ?

 

[tigeress]

4 tries down our right side defence early last night were not the middles fault. Noffa, JTJ and Luciano were as bad as anything I've seen defensively.


I just watched them again. First one from dummy half was laziness from LL. Mbye, JTJ and Noffo were all marked up (in fact there was still a winger wider because Storm had an edge back rower running a line). If the Jet or Nofo come in they'd be crucified on here.

Try two was off the cuff play from Storm. Nofo misses JAC badly but you can see he's in two minds about if Joffo is going to get either Hines or the 12.



The Finucane try, LL actually took no-one and ran between two of their players. One of the commentators on Fox was pretty critical of this. I felt sorry for Joffo because I thought he was having a decent crack last night



The Munster try, LL looks a bit late and it could probably be argued that DL is poorly positioned.



I'm wondering if the changes to defensive structures a couple of week ago (not jamming in as much) has left the middle a bit looser. Whilst the tries were all on our right edge I don't think JTJ can be blamed for any. Nofo and Mbye maybe one and LL definitely a couple.

After being down 30-0 after 17 minutes, only conceding 10 more before half time was realistically better than I was expecting.


What that spells out is very, very poor communication between all of those guys. Not anywhere near good enough. How Noff gets away with this rubbish for years has me baffled. Don't get me wrong, I like the guy, but holy crap he's been in a lot of messed up back lines defensively.

How many players in this team have any footy nous ?????

 

[DGilly]

Madge is signing these players.

It's clear we've gone for a physically strong team over footy smarts which is what Sheens went for when he was here. The game has changed and become much faster, while we're stuck with big, strong players who have no agility.

Stefano, Musgrove, LL, BJ, Talau, Tamou are all big but are not agile.

Yeah he seems to be game planning for 5-10 years ago. Sticky used to love big forwards but the Raiders got way better when he realised this wasn't the way to go anymore and got rid of Paulo and Boyd

 

[Devon Head]

I follow a lot of the Tigers players on Insta and I honestly feel the majority of them are spending far too much time posting about every little thing they do. I get it's a way to engage with their fans and gives insight into their personal lives which don't get me wrong is fun however they all clearly need to be focusing their energy on their game and not how many likes they're getting on Insta.

The team should put a social media ban on all players until they can demonstrate they're able to perform and be competitive. Socials are nothing more than an added distraction. The rubbish that was dished up on Sat was a disgrace to the club, the fans and themselves. All I saw from their Insta posts leading up to game time was a team who looked like they were on a Summer holiday in QLD for a week. Some of the lads seriously float around on Insta like they're legit ballers. Cut the nonsense lads and find some pride in the jersey and some pride in yourselves. Some serious soul searching is needed and all of them should be put on notice.

Imagine turning up to your own workplace and putting in a lazy performance like that for more than 50% of your shifts?

 

[DGilly]

The Sharks were a struggling club for many years. Look at their premiership team, it is filled with quality characters renowned for their hard work and discipline who also were talented players. There is a small minority of DHs (Barba, arguably Fifita) but those few were immensely talented (better than any player on our team) and were forced to keep their heads on by the fact that their teammates were such great leaders.

Take Lewis for example, attitude of Elijah Taylor but the talent of Ryan Matterson. We can't keep getting one or the other, we need need both. We can only afford to have very talented but poorly disciplined players like JTJ and Luc if the majority of the team has their heads screwed on. Ultimately you can obsess over coaches "changing the culture" all you want but it really comes down to the player.

On our roster the players I think fit the ideal talent and intangible requirements are Doueihi, Laurie, Stefano, Twal, Simpkin, Joffa (I think?), Seyfarth, Tamou once upon a time but past it now. I probably left someone off I'm sure


 

[Tiger5150]

Has anybody noticed that Wests Tigers has gotten worse as soon as Wests Ashfield has assumed full control of the club or is it a coincidence

I think it's quite disgusting and disrespectful that you are prepared to say this.

As an old Balmain boy, I welcome our Magpie overlords.