Ivan Cleary - THREAD..

[NT_Tiger]

I'd like to point out that Ivan made his position very clear early the morning of 11/Aug/18 and over a week later this thread has grown by 40 pages.

Fair enough a few days dissecting what he said, but what are you all still talking about?

It's all about: "connecting the dots"; "reading between the lines"; "interpreting body language"; and, "detecting smoke".

No, no, no, you have it out of sequence. Detect the smoke and inhale it, do a couple lines then try to see past the dots before your eyes, carefully control your body language. What was the question again?

 

[innsaneink]

Hah!

 

[sideline_eye]

Back to Clearygate…

I really want to believe that the whole thing was blown out of proportion and he is an honourable guy who was just painted badly.

His interview and the subsequent comments by Penrith that he isn't going there kinda poured water on the whole thing.

**But, I can't help but wonder why he went to meet with Penrith in the first place. It's so suss. It's too suss.**

I just don't buy that he went there to talk about Nathan.
Couldn't they have a phone call about that?
What could be that important that they need a face-to-face?
I mean, Ivan is no dummy. He would know that going to meet a competitor is a no-no and would be highly scandalous due to it being so unconscionable.

Yes, I think he made an incredibly bad decision to go meet Penrith.
But I don't subscribe to believing that he didn't know the true agenda. It was shady.

This point just nags on me and I can't help being upset that our coach would do that. More than upset.

He just isn't that revered guy to me anymore.

And there is just no way that the players don't feel similarly - at least a bit.

PS: I'm sure this has been mentioned before somewhere on the preceding 156 pages. Sorry for the repetition if so.

Technically, he didn't go to meet Penrith. He met his good mate Dave O'Neill, who is the Penrith Chairman.

My understanding is that Ivan and his wife attend every Penrith home game that they can (subject to his availability). Given that, there must be many opportunities for Ivan and O'Neill to catch up.

I think it is quite believable that O'Neill blindsided Ivan at one of their catch ups and raised the Penrith coaching position. Unless Ivan requests an agenda from O'Neill before every catch up, there is probably no way of anticipating what direction a conversation might take, and what issues might be raised.

So, the meeting might, as you say, have been suss; or, it could have been totally innocent.

Given that Ivan has subsequently said that no offer was made and that he intends to honour his contract with the WT, I'm inclined to believe it was an innocent catch up - at least it was an innocent catch up on Ivan's part.

Having a belief is fine, but remember your "choose words carefully" assertion and please stop stating that Ivan said no offer was made, as he never said that.

Well, my memory must be seriously faulty if Ivan didn't say that he hadn't had an offer from Penrith. I remember it clearly…... I think.

 

[magpiecol]

Back to Clearygate…

I really want to believe that the whole thing was blown out of proportion and he is an honourable guy who was just painted badly.

His interview and the subsequent comments by Penrith that he isn't going there kinda poured water on the whole thing.

**But, I can't help but wonder why he went to meet with Penrith in the first place. It's so suss. It's too suss.**

I just don't buy that he went there to talk about Nathan.
Couldn't they have a phone call about that?
What could be that important that they need a face-to-face?
I mean, Ivan is no dummy. He would know that going to meet a competitor is a no-no and would be highly scandalous due to it being so unconscionable.

Yes, I think he made an incredibly bad decision to go meet Penrith.
But I don't subscribe to believing that he didn't know the true agenda. It was shady.

This point just nags on me and I can't help being upset that our coach would do that. More than upset.

He just isn't that revered guy to me anymore.

And there is just no way that the players don't feel similarly - at least a bit.

PS: I'm sure this has been mentioned before somewhere on the preceding 156 pages. Sorry for the repetition if so.

Technically, he didn't go to meet Penrith. He met his good mate Dave O'Neill, who is the Penrith Chairman.

My understanding is that Ivan and his wife attend every Penrith home game that they can (subject to his availability). Given that, there must be many opportunities for Ivan and O'Neill to catch up.

I think it is quite believable that O'Neill blindsided Ivan at one of their catch ups and raised the Penrith coaching position. Unless Ivan requests an agenda from O'Neill before every catch up, there is probably no way of anticipating what direction a conversation might take, and what issues might be raised.

So, the meeting might, as you say, have been suss; or, it could have been totally innocent.

Given that Ivan has subsequently said that no offer was made and that he intends to honour his contract with the WT, I'm inclined to believe it was an innocent catch up - at least it was an innocent catch up on Ivan's part.

Having a belief is fine, but remember your "choose words carefully" assertion and please stop stating that Ivan said no offer was made, as he never said that.

Well, my memory must be seriously faulty if Ivan didn't say that he hadn't had an offer from Penrith. I remember it clearly…... I think.

That's exactly what he said.

 

[Tim Sheens]

Technically, he didn't go to meet Penrith. He met his good mate Dave O'Neill, who is the Penrith Chairman.

My understanding is that Ivan and his wife attend every Penrith home game that they can (subject to his availability). Given that, there must be many opportunities for Ivan and O'Neill to catch up.

I think it is quite believable that O'Neill blindsided Ivan at one of their catch ups and raised the Penrith coaching position. Unless Ivan requests an agenda from O'Neill before every catch up, there is probably no way of anticipating what direction a conversation might take, and what issues might be raised.

So, the meeting might, as you say, have been suss; or, it could have been totally innocent.

Given that Ivan has subsequently said that no offer was made and that he intends to honour his contract with the WT, I'm inclined to believe it was an innocent catch up - at least it was an innocent catch up on Ivan's part.

Having a belief is fine, but remember your "choose words carefully" assertion and please stop stating that Ivan said no offer was made, as he never said that.

Well, my memory must be seriously faulty if Ivan didn't say that he hadn't had an offer from Penrith. I remember it clearly…... I think.

That's exactly what he said.

So fake news, or maybe, truth isn't truth? Or could simply be that you guys were just a few of the many that heard exactly want they wanted you to hear, instead of the actual words. Please go back and check for yourself, then point me as to where he said it, as I intend to donate $100 to a charity of your choice when you show me that I am wrong.

 

[Cairnstigers]

The roosters are interested, that rules everyone else out, Parra, Titans and Cowboys also interested

Suggestions are he wants to come to Sydney. Only leaves the roosters and the Eeels.

Point is though that why are we not even making an offer. You cant be in the Sydney market with dreams of premierships and not try to sign players as classy as Munster when they come off contract.

Everyone knows what the Roosters want they get, Buzz saying Munster to Roosters in 2020 to replace Cronk, sounds right, Cronk signs, he is not on the money everyone thinks, Cronk leaves, we will give his million a year to Munster.
The NRL are a deadset joke, and to see Robinson saying thank god we have a salary cap to keep the comp even, you have to be kidding mate fans are not that stupid. Your team lost because they didn't give the raiders enough respect, and the roosters don't have a cap like every other team bar Brisbane.

If something doesn’t change there will one day be 8 teams in the comp.

It’s sad, really sad.

If that's the case then the hell with the NRL

Bring back the old ARL
Teams that play by the rules
All transparency on the cap

No Melbourne Brisbane Cronulla Penrith or Roosters
They can play in thier own comp and screw each other over where the team with the most money wins
I'm sure that will make them happy as that's the rules they play by now

I want to watch a fair competition
Not a rigged one

Fix the NRL or there will be No Rugby League

 

[innsaneink]

Roosters were ARL

 

[beachtiger]

Having a belief is fine, but remember your "choose words carefully" assertion and please stop stating that Ivan said no offer was made, as he never said that.

Well, my memory must be seriously faulty if Ivan didn't say that he hadn't had an offer from Penrith. I remember it clearly…... I think.

That's exactly what he said.

So fake news, or maybe, truth isn't truth? Or could simply be that you guys were just a few of the many that heard exactly want they wanted you to hear, instead of the actual words. Please go back and check for yourself, then point me as to where he said it, as I intend to donate $100 to a charity of your choice when you show me that I am wrong.

I must admit Former I started questioning whether I actually heard it myself but if you go and watch again he does say at about the 1 minute mark “I have not received any offer from the panthers, nor have I asked the Wests Tigers for a release”.

 

[fibrodreaming]

Having a belief is fine, but remember your "choose words carefully" assertion and **please stop stating that Ivan said no offer was made, as he never said that**.

Well, my memory must be seriously faulty if Ivan didn't say that he hadn't had an offer from Penrith. I remember it clearly…... I think.

That's exactly what he said.

So fake news, or maybe, truth isn't truth? Or could simply be that you guys were just a few of the many that heard exactly want they wanted you to hear, instead of the actual words. Please go back and check for yourself, then point me as to where he said it, as I intend to donate $100 to a charity of your choice when you show me that I am wrong.

Fair enough FG. I was paraphrasing.

Ivan's exact words were: "I have not received any offer from the Panthers…..".

I suppose that does not rule out the possibility that the Panthers posted an offer to Ivan, but it got lost in the mail; or that O'Neill made an oral offer to Ivan just as a semi-trailer roared past and Ivan didn't hear it.

The point is, when MagpieCol says that he remembers Ivan say that: "....he hadn't had an offer from Penrith", and sideline eye replied: "That's exactly what he said", I'd suggest that they were pretty much spot on.

Ivan said: ""I have not received any offer from the Panthers.....". Col, reporting Ivan's comment said: ""....he hadn't had an offer from Penrith".

So, I think you should get in touch with Col about the destination of that $100 donation.

 

[FOD001]

The cap works. It’s the TPAs that need to be made public and regulated

 

[TrueTiger]

Does it really matter if Ivan leaves,what would happen,we appoint another coach and away we go again…the only thing that changes is that we now think that Ivan is the lesser person we thought he was...
I still have faith that Ivan wants to continue the good work he has done so far...Im not privy to any information from within the club whether or not he is staying,however we have all grown used to reading about coaches being terminated before their contract ends,players the same...its the NRL as we know it...
Too many of us get emotional about players,coaches etc etc,I have grown used to it and really don't care anymore...as long as the WTs survive and become a great club is all Im asking,after all we have all grown used to the inuendos and inhouse dramas that we have become accustomed to while being members and fans of the club..
I will wait and see if Ivan is leaving or he coaches his son while playing for us...

 

[Russell]

The roosters are interested, that rules everyone else out, Parra, Titans and Cowboys also interested

Suggestions are he wants to come to Sydney. Only leaves the roosters and the Eeels.

Point is though that why are we not even making an offer. You cant be in the Sydney market with dreams of premierships and not try to sign players as classy as Munster when they come off contract.

Tell me oh! wise one…

How do we know we have not made an offer?

How do we know who we have made offers for, who we are going to sign and not sign?

We don't, until they are announced. Let's wait and see before criticising the Club.

No need to carry on with the "Tell me oh! wise one…" rubbish.

Its those sort of comments that lead to this so called trolling that people get accused of.

Well - how do we????

Just answer the question - your the one with the crystal ball.

 

[851]

The roosters are interested, that rules everyone else out, Parra, Titans and Cowboys also interested

Suggestions are he wants to come to Sydney. Only leaves the roosters and the Eeels.

Point is though that why are we not even making an offer. You cant be in the Sydney market with dreams of premierships and not try to sign players as classy as Munster when they come off contract.

Everyone knows what the Roosters want they get, Buzz saying Munster to Roosters in 2020 to replace Cronk, sounds right, Cronk signs, he is not on the money everyone thinks, Cronk leaves, we will give his million a year to Munster.
The NRL are a deadset joke, and to see Robinson saying thank god we have a salary cap to keep the comp even, you have to be kidding mate fans are not that stupid. Your team lost because they didn't give the raiders enough respect, and the roosters don't have a cap like every other team bar Brisbane.

That Robinson pressa was really weird wasn't it. The chooks coach talking about the cap working. Where did that come from?

I couldn't believe what I was hearing, I thought is this the roosters way of deflecting the sombrero talk

 

[gallagher]

Suggestions are he wants to come to Sydney. Only leaves the roosters and the Eeels.

Point is though that why are we not even making an offer. You cant be in the Sydney market with dreams of premierships and not try to sign players as classy as Munster when they come off contract.

Everyone knows what the Roosters want they get, Buzz saying Munster to Roosters in 2020 to replace Cronk, sounds right, Cronk signs, he is not on the money everyone thinks, Cronk leaves, we will give his million a year to Munster.
The NRL are a deadset joke, and to see Robinson saying thank god we have a salary cap to keep the comp even, you have to be kidding mate fans are not that stupid. Your team lost because they didn't give the raiders enough respect, and the roosters don't have a cap like every other team bar Brisbane.

That Robinson pressa was really weird wasn't it. The chooks coach talking about the cap working. Where did that come from?

I couldn't believe what I was hearing, I thought is this the roosters way of deflecting the sombrero talk

It would be like Bellamy applauding the refs for clearing up the ruck.

 

[Telltails]

Suggestions are he wants to come to Sydney. Only leaves the roosters and the Eeels.

Point is though that why are we not even making an offer. You cant be in the Sydney market with dreams of premierships and not try to sign players as classy as Munster when they come off contract.

Everyone knows what the Roosters want they get, Buzz saying Munster to Roosters in 2020 to replace Cronk, sounds right, Cronk signs, he is not on the money everyone thinks, Cronk leaves, we will give his million a year to Munster.
The NRL are a deadset joke, and to see Robinson saying thank god we have a salary cap to keep the comp even, you have to be kidding mate fans are not that stupid. Your team lost because they didn't give the raiders enough respect, and the roosters don't have a cap like every other team bar Brisbane.

That Robinson pressa was really weird wasn't it. The chooks coach talking about the cap working. Where did that come from?

I couldn't believe what I was hearing, I thought is this the roosters way of deflecting the sombrero talk

Surely he has to feel the heat about the assets afforded to him that his competitors only dream about.

 

[Tcat]

The NRL really isn't a great product atm, due to its poor management in multiple areas (cap rorts, contract breaches, ref rubbish, lack of grass roots development etc). It looks all great with some flashy ads and ex players trying to talk it all up, but I'm not fooled anyore. A mate of mine just moved to the country and cant believe how much games like AFL and soccer are spreading. I know it's slightly off topic but we need to clean the game up or clubs like ours with fizzle out.

 

[Tim Sheens]

Well, my memory must be seriously faulty if Ivan didn't say that he hadn't had an offer from Penrith. I remember it clearly…... I think.

That's exactly what he said.

So fake news, or maybe, truth isn't truth? Or could simply be that you guys were just a few of the many that heard exactly want they wanted you to hear, instead of the actual words. Please go back and check for yourself, then point me as to where he said it, as I intend to donate $100 to a charity of your choice when you show me that I am wrong.

I must admit Former I started questioning whether I actually heard it myself but if you go and watch again he does say at about the 1 minute mark “I have not received any offer from the panthers, nor have I asked the Wests Tigers for a release”.

I am also questioning exactly what I heard in that sentence in particular, as it was the key to the statement. Ivan's actual words were very clear as he spoke them and that is why I challenge others on the "no offer" comments.

I don't question him not asking for a release, because Pascoe and Go with her "but I will say" etc, have alluded to conversations on such, but not been forthcoming with details of them, which could only be about him leaving early, otherwise, why on earth would they have stated "we will not be granting a release"?

Like the words of the statement, my words above in the quoted post were purposely written, even editing it to change a "what" to ….... "want ....... you wanted to hear". To again quote from Ivan, and whilst I often donate to charities, I didn't state that I will donate $100, rather ........ "intend to". However, for those that don't like the smoke and the presence of fire analogy, if nothing comes of this and he sees out this contract, I will donate that $100 to a charity of their choice.

 

[TrueTiger]

That's exactly what he said.

So fake news, or maybe, truth isn't truth? Or could simply be that you guys were just a few of the many that heard exactly want they wanted you to hear, instead of the actual words. Please go back and check for yourself, then point me as to where he said it, as I intend to donate $100 to a charity of your choice when you show me that I am wrong.

I must admit Former I started questioning whether I actually heard it myself but if you go and watch again he does say at about the 1 minute mark “I have not received any offer from the panthers, nor have I asked the Wests Tigers for a release”.

I am also questioning exactly what I heard in that sentence in particular, as it was the key to the statement. Ivan's actual words were very clear as he spoke them and that is why I challenge others on the "no offer" comments.

I don't question him not asking for a release, because Pascoe and Go with her "but I will say" etc, have alluded to conversations on such, but not been forthcoming with details of them, which could only be about him leaving early, otherwise, why on earth would they have stated "we will not be granting a release"?

Like the words of the statement, my words above in the quoted post were purposely written, even editing it to change a "what" to ….... "want ....... you wanted to hear". To again quote from Ivan, and whilst I often donate to charities, I didn't state that I will donate $100, rather ........ "intend to". However, for those that don't like the smoke and the presence of fire analogy, if nothing comes of this and he sees out this contract, I will donate that $100 to a charity of their choice.

I can understand the arguement at hand…..the only thing I will say is ...if Go heard that Ivan was leaving but had not had a conversation with Ivan regarding his offer..she may have been thinking that Ivan can converse or plan whatever he likes ""we will not grant a release""...
thats how I interpret the situation,but really who knows what has gone on behind doors....whatever happens...happens I suppose...

 

[Russell]

I think the "We will not grant a release" is to force Penrith to back off.

Continue to try and pinch our coach and we will commence legal action.

I think it worked - got "the Fibber" scurrying back to his hole. Has then told fibs to try and make him out to be far removed.

 

[fibrodreaming]

That's exactly what he said.

So fake news, or maybe, truth isn't truth? Or could simply be that you guys were just a few of the many that heard exactly want they wanted you to hear, instead of the actual words. Please go back and check for yourself, then point me as to where he said it, as I intend to donate $100 to a charity of your choice when you show me that I am wrong.

I must admit Former I started questioning whether I actually heard it myself but if you go and watch again he does say at about the 1 minute mark “I have not received any offer from the panthers, nor have I asked the Wests Tigers for a release”.

**I am also questioning exactly what I heard in that sentence in particular, as it was the key to the statement. Ivan's actual words were very clear as he spoke them and that is why I challenge others on the "no offer" comments.**

I don't question him not asking for a release, because Pascoe and Go with her "but I will say" etc, have alluded to conversations on such, but not been forthcoming with details of them, which could only be about him leaving early, otherwise, why on earth would they have stated "we will not be granting a release"?

Like the words of the statement, my words above in the quoted post were purposely written, even editing it to change a "what" to ….... "want ....... you wanted to hear". To again quote from Ivan, and whilst I often donate to charities, I didn't state that I will donate $100, rather ........ "intend to". However, for those that don't like the smoke and the presence of fire analogy, if nothing comes of this and he sees out this contract, I will donate that $100 to a charity of their choice.

What a bizarre set of posts you have produced on this subject FG !

What does your sentence in bold actually mean ? I can tell you that it doesn't matter what you heard Ivan say (or thought you heard Ivan say) his written statement to the press is reproduced on the WT site in full for all to see.

I have quoted his exact words to you in several posts (which I have copied and pasted from the WT site) and in each case you have avoided replying.

https://www.weststigers.com.au/news/2018/08/11/ivan-cleary-statement/

You want to "challenge" others on their "no offer" comments when Ivan literally said "I have not received any offer from the Panthers…..".

So it's time for you to put or shut up. Tell us exactly what Ivan said that challenges the "no offer" comments.