JAC

[cochise]

Don’t see us offering burton as much as bulldogs. He looked alright but he’s not worth $500k a season already.

Panthers want him to stay bad. He’s better than good.

I wanna see him play more footy. He had one good game but the others he was quiet but solid. Sure could come good but offering $500k is jumping the gun

No room for him at Penrith Luai and Cleary are fat better players at the moment

A massive part of recruitment is buying before they are proven

You’re right but giving them huge money before they’ve properly played is a huge risk that’s never ever worked for us in the past. Not sure he’s at the level where he should be getting huge money as a couple games rookie.

We are interested in him apparently so we’ll see what happens. Probably will just go to bulldogs with Barrett

I’ve watched him twice. First game he took an injury hit team into golden point and had the confidence to have a few shots at FG. He then came on and scored a nice solo try first touch in another game. Barrett coached him and is chasing him. How much evidence is needed?

Twice?

You walk into NRL and in two games you look like a seasoned pro, you’re going places. His frame and everything else point to big things. Sure I could be wrong but in 18 months time if we’re still on here moaning about recruitment and he’s playing rep footy, I’ll let you know about it ?

I'm not saying he won't have a good career, but its not smart to talk him up like you are after 2 games. Brooks was considered the next Andrew Johns after his debut.

You have watched him play 2 games, I will trust our recruitment teams, who have way more data on him and have seen him play many more than 2 games, to get his value right over the 2 games you have watched.

Ok, so maybe he isn’t our number one target, but what is the strategy? our recruitment team should have a list of all players available, ranked in order of quality and suitability to WT and they should be systematically working through making offers to the players on that list to get the best available squad. I’m seeing no sign of this. I’m seeing a long winded dart board strategy. Of all this supposed youth we rave about on here McIntyre has looked good. Blore had a good game. I like AD but we probably paid overs. There’s not enough evidence for me to remain patient (after 9 years of mediocrity). Some will want to wait and see I’m simply trying to suggest our failings in the hope we try something else.

That is exactly what they are doing, they have an archetype of what they are looking for in each position and then they are analysing data to help find players that match that archetype. They then closely examine the players that match what they are looking for, watching them play, meeting with them for example and also determine whether they match the values, culture and approach of the club, all before targeting them to join the club.

They’re over complicating it then. Go out and get the best 25 players you possibly can and put the right structures in place for them to succeed. And your best work needs to be done when you put a contract in front of them, not in the data room.

Rubbish, you want to sign a player to a huge contract based on seeing him play twice. I would trust their judgement any day over that.

And watching probably 10,000 games of footy in my life. We don’t need to agree here, I’ve picked plenty of rep players off a handful of games. We need people who can do likewise. Not read data.

Mate, you are not on your pat malone having seen a lot of footy. I bet you have called some that haven't made it as well.

100%. Could name a few for sure.

My point is I don’t feel like our recruitment team have the right skillset, others like you won’t agree. The good thing about this forum is that I can get it off my chest on days like this.

Adam Hartigan is one of the most impressive individuals we have had involved in the club. For once we might be ahead of the pack here but it will take some time to pay off.

My advice to Adam. If it walks and talks like a duck, it’s a duck. Should have killed the JAC talk 2 months ago. He still has to prove his stripes to me.

His value honestly is more in the juniors we recruit and the fringe players we can get here and push to another level because they are the right fit for what we need.

I think that’s great and necessary, but we flogged a young Aaron Woods for years because he had no experienced helpers. Pro footy is not a forgiving game for kids to learn on the job. He has to land some fish soon.

Thats exactly why we signed Tamou. Funnily enough it looks like Woods needed that flogging, he hasn't been the same player since he left and was surrounded by better players.

Yeah big Woodsy did a WT on the Dogs and Sharks. Overpaid bloke past his prime. I think we needed to give him some help when he was origin class though. He got sick of carrying us.

We tried to and ended up with Blair lol

 

[jirskyr]

People are blinded by their love of the club and fail to make sound judgements about what the elite players think.

Oh, please do enlighten us about what elite players think and how you come to obtain this knowledge.

 

[BAGNF05]

Don’t see us offering burton as much as bulldogs. He looked alright but he’s not worth $500k a season already.

Panthers want him to stay bad. He’s better than good.

I wanna see him play more footy. He had one good game but the others he was quiet but solid. Sure could come good but offering $500k is jumping the gun

No room for him at Penrith Luai and Cleary are fat better players at the moment

A massive part of recruitment is buying before they are proven

You’re right but giving them huge money before they’ve properly played is a huge risk that’s never ever worked for us in the past. Not sure he’s at the level where he should be getting huge money as a couple games rookie.

We are interested in him apparently so we’ll see what happens. Probably will just go to bulldogs with Barrett

I’ve watched him twice. First game he took an injury hit team into golden point and had the confidence to have a few shots at FG. He then came on and scored a nice solo try first touch in another game. Barrett coached him and is chasing him. How much evidence is needed?

Twice?

You walk into NRL and in two games you look like a seasoned pro, you’re going places. His frame and everything else point to big things. Sure I could be wrong but in 18 months time if we’re still on here moaning about recruitment and he’s playing rep footy, I’ll let you know about it ?

I'm not saying he won't have a good career, but its not smart to talk him up like you are after 2 games. Brooks was considered the next Andrew Johns after his debut.

You have watched him play 2 games, I will trust our recruitment teams, who have way more data on him and have seen him play many more than 2 games, to get his value right over the 2 games you have watched.

Ok, so maybe he isn’t our number one target, but what is the strategy? our recruitment team should have a list of all players available, ranked in order of quality and suitability to WT and they should be systematically working through making offers to the players on that list to get the best available squad. I’m seeing no sign of this. I’m seeing a long winded dart board strategy. Of all this supposed youth we rave about on here McIntyre has looked good. Blore had a good game. I like AD but we probably paid overs. There’s not enough evidence for me to remain patient (after 9 years of mediocrity). Some will want to wait and see I’m simply trying to suggest our failings in the hope we try something else.

That is exactly what they are doing, they have an archetype of what they are looking for in each position and then they are analysing data to help find players that match that archetype. They then closely examine the players that match what they are looking for, watching them play, meeting with them for example and also determine whether they match the values, culture and approach of the club, all before targeting them to join the club.

They’re over complicating it then. Go out and get the best 25 players you possibly can and put the right structures in place for them to succeed. And your best work needs to be done when you put a contract in front of them, not in the data room.

Rubbish, you want to sign a player to a huge contract based on seeing him play twice. I would trust their judgement any day over that.

And watching probably 10,000 games of footy in my life. We don’t need to agree here, I’ve picked plenty of rep players off a handful of games. We need people who can do likewise. Not read data.

Mate, you are not on your pat malone having seen a lot of footy. I bet you have called some that haven't made it as well.

100%. Could name a few for sure.

My point is I don’t feel like our recruitment team have the right skillset, others like you won’t agree. The good thing about this forum is that I can get it off my chest on days like this.

Adam Hartigan is one of the most impressive individuals we have had involved in the club. For once we might be ahead of the pack here but it will take some time to pay off.

My advice to Adam. If it walks and talks like a duck, it’s a duck. Should have killed the JAC talk 2 months ago. He still has to prove his stripes to me.

His value honestly is more in the juniors we recruit and the fringe players we can get here and push to another level because they are the right fit for what we need.

I think that’s great and necessary, but we flogged a young Aaron Woods for years because he had no experienced helpers. Pro footy is not a forgiving game for kids to learn on the job. He has to land some fish soon.

Thats exactly why we signed Tamou. Funnily enough it looks like Woods needed that flogging, he hasn't been the same player since he left and was surrounded by better players.

Yeah big Woodsy did a WT on the Dogs and Sharks. Overpaid bloke past his prime. I think we needed to give him some help when he was origin class though. He got sick of carrying us.

We tried to and ended up with Blair lol

Plodder v1.0

 

[jirskyr]

I cant believe we miss out on a test star and some fans think we handled it well. Its a good thing none of us accept mediocracy

How can you "miss out" on someone who was never released from his contract by his club? Turns out we've missed out on Cameron Smith too, also Jack Wighton, Josh Papalii, Cam Munster - all currently contracted to another club.

 

[jirskyr]

There are lessons, tragedies and complications beyond comprehension experienced by those who follow our team.

Paying my membership to charity next year, sick of throwing good money after bad. Until somebody is accountable for the failing or the club challenges the ineffective NRL salary cap I will just be giving the game a wide berth. Call it sooking but I’d rather call it being a realist, we’re a total dumpster fire.

Sooking, that should help the club.

It seems to be the chairmans tactic, sooking that we have no blues reps.
Very disapointing day mate.

It is, but this wasn't the clubs doing, you can't sign someone who doesn't want to be here.

Well they had him agreeing to next year but couldnt get it over the line. A good club would have nailed it.

I'm just curious which "good club" did manage to sign Addo-Carr for 2021. It appears to be a field of zero.

The real question is who signs him for 2022, then you can have your whinge.

 

[stevo133]

This week they say his staying at storm what is it next week golf!, I can’t take what nrl journalist say according to them his at tigers, bulldogs and rabbits next season so whatever they say I’ll take with a grain of salt coming from a salty tigers fan

What about what the club said?

Why didn’t we sign him for 2022? We did that for stefano utoikamanuand no I’m not comparing the 2

 

[jirskyr]

Don’t see us offering burton as much as bulldogs. He looked alright but he’s not worth $500k a season already.

Panthers want him to stay bad. He’s better than good.

I wanna see him play more footy. He had one good game but the others he was quiet but solid. Sure could come good but offering $500k is jumping the gun

No room for him at Penrith Luai and Cleary are fat better players at the moment

A massive part of recruitment is buying before they are proven

That's an odd comment given how upset you appear that JAC hasn't been signed for 2021.

 

[hammertime]

Can't Melbourne sign up rankin? Kept JAC out of first grade at the Tigers.

 

[BAGNF05]

Don’t see us offering burton as much as bulldogs. He looked alright but he’s not worth $500k a season already.

Panthers want him to stay bad. He’s better than good.

I wanna see him play more footy. He had one good game but the others he was quiet but solid. Sure could come good but offering $500k is jumping the gun

No room for him at Penrith Luai and Cleary are fat better players at the moment

A massive part of recruitment is buying before they are proven

That's an odd comment given how upset you appear that JAC hasn't been signed for 2021.

You seem to enjoy a good old argument.

While I stand by my point, you do need a mix of proven rep players and well scouted young talent to play NRL finals. Look at the top eight teams from any year.

 

[jirskyr]

Don’t see us offering burton as much as bulldogs. He looked alright but he’s not worth $500k a season already.

Panthers want him to stay bad. He’s better than good.

I wanna see him play more footy. He had one good game but the others he was quiet but solid. Sure could come good but offering $500k is jumping the gun

No room for him at Penrith Luai and Cleary are fat better players at the moment

A massive part of recruitment is buying before they are proven

That's an odd comment given how upset you appear that JAC hasn't been signed for 2021.

You seem to enjoy a good old argument.

While I stand by my point, you do need a mix of proven rep players and well scouted young talent to play NRL finals. Look at the top eight teams from any year.

I agree, but when to sign youth and when to pull the trigger on experience/rep, that's just down to opinion then.

Personally, if there is one position where targeting rep-level players is least important, I'd say it's on the wing. You can definitely buy unproven wingers and upskill them.

100% of the wingers in this year's grand final were unproven non-rep players when signed, and all except Addo-Carr debuted for the club the were representing on the day. Addo-Carr played 4 first-grade matches before signing on with Storm.

Extend that to the semi-finals, Souths fielded Johnston and Jaxson Paulo, both of whom debuted for Rabbits. Canberra fielded Cotric and Valemei, both of whom are Raiders juniors.

Extend it a week back further - Parra played G Jennings and Haze Dunster, but clearly would have played Sivo and Ferguson if they could, so that's one experienced signing and one novice signing. Roosters fielded Tupou and Brett Morris.

So of the final 6 teams in the 2020 competition, of 12 wing spots only two of those players were experienced signings to their current club (BMoz and Ferguson). All the others were debutants or near-debutants, most often juniors, for their club.

So yeah looking at the Top 8, as you suggest, it very heavily leans towards not buying expensive rep-level wingers, but rather scouting and upskilling them as juniors yourself.

 

[BAGNF05]

Don’t see us offering burton as much as bulldogs. He looked alright but he’s not worth $500k a season already.

Panthers want him to stay bad. He’s better than good.

I wanna see him play more footy. He had one good game but the others he was quiet but solid. Sure could come good but offering $500k is jumping the gun

No room for him at Penrith Luai and Cleary are fat better players at the moment

A massive part of recruitment is buying before they are proven

That's an odd comment given how upset you appear that JAC hasn't been signed for 2021.

You seem to enjoy a good old argument.

While I stand by my point, you do need a mix of proven rep players and well scouted young talent to play NRL finals. Look at the top eight teams from any year.

I agree, but when to sign youth and when to pull the trigger on experience/rep, that's just down to opinion then.

Personally, if there is one position where targeting rep-level players is least important, I'd say it's on the wing. You can definitely buy unproven wingers and upskill them.

100% of the wingers in this year's grand final were unproven non-rep players when signed, and all except Addo-Carr debuted for the club the were representing on the day. Addo-Carr played 4 first-grade matches before signing on with Storm.

Extend that to the semi-finals, Souths fielded Johnston and Jaxson Paulo, both of whom debuted for Rabbits. Canberra fielded Cotric and Valemei, both of whom are Raiders juniors.

Extend it a week back further - Parra played G Jennings and Haze Dunster, but clearly would have played Sivo and Ferguson if they could, so that's one experienced signing and one novice signing. Roosters fielded Tupou and Brett Morris.

So of the final 6 teams in the 2020 competition, of 12 wing spots only two of those players were experienced signings to their current club (BMoz and Ferguson). All the others were debutants or near-debutants, most often juniors, for their club.

So yeah looking at the Top 8, as you suggest, it very heavily leans towards not buying expensive rep-level wingers, but rather scouting and upskilling them as juniors yourself.

Nice analysis. Agree that wing is probably not a real need for us hence the fullback proposal. I think his pace was the main draw card with JAC. I think he would have made a good fist of FB without being perfect immediately.

My fear for this club is that we are in a permanent state of ridicule and mediocrity until we land a star. JAC is a star with X factor and pace. Much more than just your stereotypical winger in my opinion.

For the record, given a blank cheque book and one signing for WT I’d probably go after an aggressive back rower such as Jake Turbo or Finucane.

 

[jirskyr]

My fear for this club is that we are in a permanent state of ridicule and mediocrity until we land a star. JAC is a star with X factor and pace. Much more than just your stereotypical winger in my opinion.
For the record, given a blank cheque book and one signing for WT I’d probably go after an aggressive back rower such as Jake Turbo or Finucane.

I understand what you are saying, I just ignore any ridicule to be honest. What other fans think, I don't care, they are morons anyway because they support the wrong club.

I don't think landing a star will have any impact whatsoever on the slander. People will slag off the team until we start winning, and we won't start winning until Madge can get the core group of youngsters and a few experienced heads to all play tough at the same time, for weeks and weeks at a time. JAC isn't going to change that by himself, though he might turn the odd match with pure speed, he's not a core component of a rejuvenated side IMO.

We had "star players" in 2017 and people still wrote Tigers off at every turn - and they were proven right simply by results alone.

 

[cochise]

This week they say his staying at storm what is it next week golf!, I can’t take what nrl journalist say according to them his at tigers, bulldogs and rabbits next season so whatever they say I’ll take with a grain of salt coming from a salty tigers fan

What about what the club said?
Why didn’t we sign him for 2022? We did that for stefano utoikamanuand no I’m not comparing the 2

Because he has other plans

 

[BAGNF05]

My fear for this club is that we are in a permanent state of ridicule and mediocrity until we land a star. JAC is a star with X factor and pace. Much more than just your stereotypical winger in my opinion.
For the record, given a blank cheque book and one signing for WT I’d probably go after an aggressive back rower such as Jake Turbo or Finucane.

I understand what you are saying, I just ignore any ridicule to be honest. What other fans think, I don't care, they are morons anyway because they support the wrong club.

I don't think landing a star will have any impact whatsoever on the slander. People will slag off the team until we start winning, and we won't start winning until Madge can get the core group of youngsters and a few experienced heads to all play tough at the same time, for weeks and weeks at a time. JAC isn't going to change that by himself, though he might turn the odd match with pure speed, he's not a core component of a rejuvenated side IMO.

We had "star players" in 2017 and people still wrote Tigers off at every turn - and they were proven right simply by results alone.

All fair points. Playing tough is definitely right up there in turning it around. You’d have to admit JAC doesn’t shy away from the tough stuff at any level though. Regardless of whether he was the answer or not, who is going to drive that toughness next year. Tamou? I’m not convinced.

All roads point to us needing to sign some match winners.

 

[stevo133]

This week they say his staying at storm what is it next week golf!, I can’t take what nrl journalist say according to them his at tigers, bulldogs and rabbits next season so whatever they say I’ll take with a grain of salt coming from a salty tigers fan

What about what the club said?
Why didn’t we sign him for 2022? We did that for stefano utoikamanuand no I’m not comparing the 2

Because he has other plans

Uncle Wayne Bennett?[link text]

 

[jadtiger]

Can't Melbourne sign up rankin? Kept JAC out of first grade at the Tigers.

If JT was the coach at Melbourne i am sure they would, unfortunately they have some bloke called Bellamy and he is not smart enough to identify talent the way JT could

 

[pawsandclaws1]

Don’t see us offering burton as much as bulldogs. He looked alright but he’s not worth $500k a season already.

We don’t need a half .... we need a fullback and a back row and/or a lock.

We might need a half if brooks and Doueihi don’t work out. We really do need a second rower and id get josh McGuire to play lock seems like Brisbane are happy to release him.

Brayden Trindall would be worth a look, but in saying that we have so many young halves coming through that if in fact one or the other don't work out, we should have it sorted in our own backyard within the next few years.

I always liked the way he plays. He's leaving the Sharks. Big body, great defender and a clever half.

 

[tiger05premier]

Mansour would be a spectacular failure.

JAC is a dog.

Pascoe and co are useless. The deal was there to be done, we stalled and stalled and now miss out. Pathetic and embarassing.

Big pressure on Talau to play origin next year

You sure it wasn’t JAC that stalled and stalled?

Yes. This is our fault.

Storm had publicly said they would release JAC after a suitable player was acquired. We failed to swap two vastly inferior players for one of the best players in the game. Most clubs would have waited for a while to try and make a deal without giving up anything, but there comes a time when a deal must be made. Other clubs would have pulled the trigger. We didn't.

Talau is a promising junior. Who's had injury issues. How many players like that have we had that went on to play origin? Even swapping Nof for jac is a huge upgrade. We've been moaning Nofs awful defence for years. He's just above average. And he's identical to Mansour. Which is why we most cetainly do not need or want him.

I think the Storm were never going to release him. The term like for like comes to mind. Who do we have that is an Test and SOO player.

It is very widely reported that they were after Nof or Talau. Was i in the room when said negitioations took place? No. Would i swap either of those players for jac, yes. I would try and not lose any assets but ultimately i would swap these guys when the opportunity arose.

Like you said you weren't in the room

Maybe just maybe we did speak to Nofo and Talau about them going to Melb and they said no

That would be the end of it

You can't make them leave

And even if their contracts were up and if we didn't re sign them and storm chased them the storm might still lose out to another club because they just might want to stay in Syd

Most players would jump at the chance to play for the storm. They are extremely professional and the current champs. What player doesn't want to compete in grand finals?

We're so far behind them it's not funny.

We are miles behind them but on the right path

Also plenty of teams in Syd with premiership potential they could go to if they wanted an opportunity without leaving Syd

 

[The_Patriot]

My fear for this club is that we are in a permanent state of ridicule and mediocrity until we land a star. JAC is a star with X factor and pace. Much more than just your stereotypical winger in my opinion.
For the record, given a blank cheque book and one signing for WT I’d probably go after an aggressive back rower such as Jake Turbo or Finucane.

I understand what you are saying, I just ignore any ridicule to be honest. What other fans think, I don't care, they are morons anyway because they support the wrong club.

I **don't think landing a star will have any impact whatsoever on the slander. People will slag off the team until we start winning, and we won't start winning** until Madge can get the core group of youngsters and a few experienced heads to all play tough at the same time, for weeks and weeks at a time. JAC isn't going to change that by himself, though he might turn the odd match with pure speed, he's not a core component of a rejuvenated side IMO.

We had "star players" in 2017 and people still wrote Tigers off at every turn - and they were proven right simply by results alone.

Very true. Our fans would do well to remember that.

 

[tiger05premier]


More info from ChamAss

If that's true than it proves absolutely proves family means very little to him