Latrell Mitchell Contract Discussion

[cochise]

So every club starts offering extra year contracts to near retired players (with TPA’s )
Gee that’s not going to get rorted by the clubs with more money and bigger chances of winning premierships
May as well shove the copper pipe and barbed wire up the WT’s clackers now and remove the copper pipe
It’s a full moon tonight isn’t it

So players aren't allowed to retire when they have an injury they feel is too difficult to overcome? He has been assessed by NRL doctors and will take 2 years to overcome that injury, the Rabbits then approached the NRL and asked for permission to give him a job that will take 10 years to make the value of his contract. This is how it should work!

 

[cochise]

Every club supporter base think they are victims. Even Roosters supporters.

In every sport in the world!

 

[gallagher]

Every club supporter base think they are victims. Even Roosters supporters.

It's boring isnt it.

 

[WT2K]

Jimmy Smith on the BSB apparently said the main issue with LM and the chooks was that the playing group approached the coach telling him that he needed to spend time with all the playing group and not just LM.

This is the main reason they gave him permission to look elsewhere.

 

[jirskyr]

But Souths have been allowed to retire a player who can make a comeback if he is prepared to got through hard work for the next 2 seasons
How long were we made to suffer with Simon Dwyer , Taniela Tuiaki
Dwyer’s injury was virtually like a case by case situation …some make it back , some don’t but it is a TIME factor
Why does Souths get it differently …
Sometime poo happens …and when it does every one of the 16 clubs need to be treated EXACTLY the same
Comparing Matulino and Burgess is ridiculous …they are completely different situations

So precedents set 10 years ago should be still clung to? The NRL has realised their mistake in those situations and has set in place procedures to allow players to still get paid and the clubs to not be adversely effected.

A 2 year injury is not an easy thing to get over and it is an incredible amount of work to back . Sam is obviously not to go through that anguish and work, so is retiring. He is not getting paid out his salary for the next 2 years he is getting a job at Souths that will take him 10 years to earn what he could have earnt over the remainder of his playing contract!

So every club starts offering extra year contracts to near retired players (with TPA's )

Gee that's not going to get rorted by the clubs with more money and bigger chances of winning premierships

May as well shove the copper pipe and barbed wire up the WT's clackers now and remove the copper pipe

It's a full moon tonight isn't it

I don't see what the issue is with that. How many near-retired players are actually in high demand with clubs? Who are we talking about exactly, your Scott Sattlers and Braith Anastas? And why shouldn't near-retired players get a final payday rather than scratch around for that last meagre contract?

I understand your concern but I just don't see it being rorted any worse than the system already is. Cooper Cronk got $1M x 2 years then a fat cushy coaching role plus TV commentary to retire to, and that was all above-board.

Why should S Burgess not get his money paid out and a post-career job? By the same argument, Tigers should never have been penalised for offering Farah his ambassador role, because every club does it with their high-profiles and it's a joke that the NRL decided that in this case, on technicality, Tigers weren't supposed to do it.

 

[Tiger5150]

So every club starts offering extra year contracts to near retired players (with TPA’s )
Gee that’s not going to get rorted by the clubs with more money and bigger chances of winning premierships
May as well shove the copper pipe and barbed wire up the WT’s clackers now and remove the copper pipe
It’s a full moon tonight isn’t it

So players aren't allowed to retire when they have an injury they feel is too difficult to overcome? He has been assessed by NRL doctors and will take 2 years to overcome that injury, the Rabbits then approached the NRL and asked for permission to give him a job that will take 10 years to make the value of his contract. This is how it should work!

Except the NRL rules specifically say that Medical Retirement is only if the injury is to a part of the body that has not previously injured or reasonably predictable that would cause a degenerative injury. The shoulder that he injured and had reconstructed under his current contract he had busted and previously been reconstructed prior to his contract.

It is clearly contrary to NRL rules but Greenberg is typically inconsistent

 

[balmain boy]

Jimmy Smith on the BSB apparently said the main issue with LM and the chooks was that the playing group approached the coach telling him that he needed to spend time with all the playing group and not just LM.

This is the main reason they gave him permission to look elsewhere.

So the issue is Robbo only coaches LM and ignores the entire rest of the squad?

Doesn't sound likely

 

[Tiger5150]

But Souths have been allowed to retire a player who can make a comeback if he is prepared to got through hard work for the next 2 seasons
How long were we made to suffer with Simon Dwyer , Taniela Tuiaki
Dwyer’s injury was virtually like a case by case situation …some make it back , some don’t but it is a TIME factor
Why does Souths get it differently …
Sometime poo happens …and when it does every one of the 16 clubs need to be treated EXACTLY the same
Comparing Matulino and Burgess is ridiculous …they are completely different situations

So precedents set 10 years ago should be still clung to? The NRL has realised their mistake in those situations and has set in place procedures to allow players to still get paid and the clubs to not be adversely effected.

A 2 year injury is not an easy thing to get over and it is an incredible amount of work to back . Sam is obviously not to go through that anguish and work, so is retiring. He is not getting paid out his salary for the next 2 years he is getting a job at Souths that will take him 10 years to earn what he could have earnt over the remainder of his playing contract!

So every club starts offering extra year contracts to near retired players (with TPA's )

Gee that's not going to get rorted by the clubs with more money and bigger chances of winning premierships

May as well shove the copper pipe and barbed wire up the WT's clackers now and remove the copper pipe

It's a full moon tonight isn't it

I don't see what the issue is with that. How many near-retired players are actually in high demand with clubs? Who are we talking about exactly, your Scott Sattlers and Braith Anastas? And why shouldn't near-retired players get a final payday rather than scratch around for that last meagre contract?

I understand your concern but I just don't see it being rorted any worse than the system already is. Cooper Cronk got $1M x 2 years then a fat cushy coaching role plus TV commentary to retire to, and that was all above-board.

Why should S Burgess not get his money paid out and a post-career job? By the same argument, Tigers should never have been penalised for offering Farah his ambassador role, because every club does it with their high-profiles and it's a joke that the NRL decided that in this case, on technicality, Tigers weren't supposed to do it.

You have answered your own question. Of course Burgess should get his money, no question but under the NRL own rules it should also count towards their cap.

The Farah example is perfect. Compare that with what happens to both Burgess and Inglis.

 

[jirskyr]

Funny how quick the decision was by the NRL regarding the Burgess cap.
Our one for Ben Mato took forever.

It is the offseason. Do you officially know how long it took between Tigers submitting Mats vs NRL decision? Did we submit before the GF?

I think they were all handled in adequate time - Tigers have had ample time to start putting Mats' money to use prior to 2020.

Time frame or no time frame the Burgess call is crap ...and it shows to me how stupid the NRL thinks we as fans are

Their own medico was the one saying that Burgess could be back by the 2022 ...what that didn't suit the poor ol Wabbits and Wusty's time frame

I'm fine with that. Why can't a player retire due to legitimate serious injury and not have to penalise the club for having signed them to a contract, take it off the salary cap?

WT didn't get any dispensation for Liam Fulton and that was despite the game introducing the HIA system to protect player health, so how can this be okay?

Did we not get anything at all, can anyone confirm 100%? I can only find media reports of Tigers applying for salary cap relief for Fulton, no record of the actual outcome.

Also, even if we didn't get relief back then, by current standards I think we should have. But Fulton retired 5 years ago at the forefront of the new concussion rules, so it's hard to say.

So it's not OK, but Fulton retired in 2014 not 2019. When is the last player to be rejected for medical retirement? We've just had 3 approved in the past few months, so it appears the NRL has changed their assessment of what constitutes a medical retirement and I'm ok with that.

Happy is worried about it being rorted but I just don't see so many players opting to take medical retirement, and I don't see any being able to fake medical retirement, so you are going to have legitimate situations of career-end players with long-term debilitating injuries, being paid out as they would be anyway, but simply the club not being penalised for that outcome.

Because anyone who thinks Souths wouldn't rather have a fit Burgess playing rather than having to find a late-notice replacement, is kidding. This is a non-optimal outcome for Souths.

 

[jirskyr]

So every club starts offering extra year contracts to near retired players (with TPA’s )
Gee that’s not going to get rorted by the clubs with more money and bigger chances of winning premierships
May as well shove the copper pipe and barbed wire up the WT’s clackers now and remove the copper pipe
It’s a full moon tonight isn’t it

So players aren't allowed to retire when they have an injury they feel is too difficult to overcome? He has been assessed by NRL doctors and will take 2 years to overcome that injury, the Rabbits then approached the NRL and asked for permission to give him a job that will take 10 years to make the value of his contract. This is how it should work!

Except the NRL rules specifically say that Medical Retirement is only if the injury is to a part of the body that has not previously injured or reasonably predictable that would cause a degenerative injury. The shoulder that he injured and had reconstructed under his current contract he had busted and previously been reconstructed prior to his contract.

It is clearly contrary to NRL rules but Greenberg is typically inconsistent

I believe Souths successfully argued the retirement is because of a severe infection in the joint which he had operated. So yes the shoulder was injured before but it was the infection which permanently affected his shoulder function.

IMO it all gets a bit silly, which is why I am ok with the retirements. What if you injure your knee one year, but a different injury to the same knee puts you to retirement. Are they related? Absolutely the first knee injury will impact the long-term capacity of your knee, but who is to say with absolute confidence that they are totally unrelated, or to what extent they are related? No part of the body operates in absolute separation from others.

Why bother fussing about it, just let them go.

 

[cochise]

So every club starts offering extra year contracts to near retired players (with TPA’s )
Gee that’s not going to get rorted by the clubs with more money and bigger chances of winning premierships
May as well shove the copper pipe and barbed wire up the WT’s clackers now and remove the copper pipe
It’s a full moon tonight isn’t it

So players aren't allowed to retire when they have an injury they feel is too difficult to overcome? He has been assessed by NRL doctors and will take 2 years to overcome that injury, the Rabbits then approached the NRL and asked for permission to give him a job that will take 10 years to make the value of his contract. This is how it should work!

Except the NRL rules specifically say that Medical Retirement is only if the injury is to a part of the body that has not previously injured or reasonably predictable that would cause a degenerative injury. The shoulder that he injured and had reconstructed under his current contract he had busted and previously been reconstructed prior to his contract.

It is clearly contrary to NRL rules but Greenberg is typically inconsistent

I don't actually think he has been medically retired, if he is medically retired he should be getting his contract money paid out! This is not happening, he is retiring and a post career job has been approved by the NRL!

 

[happy_tiger]

So every club starts offering extra year contracts to near retired players (with TPA’s )
Gee that’s not going to get rorted by the clubs with more money and bigger chances of winning premierships
May as well shove the copper pipe and barbed wire up the WT’s clackers now and remove the copper pipe
It’s a full moon tonight isn’t it

So players aren't allowed to retire when they have an injury they feel is too difficult to overcome? He has been assessed by NRL doctors and will take 2 years to overcome that injury, the Rabbits then approached the NRL and asked for permission to give him a job that will take 10 years to make the value of his contract. This is how it should work!

Clubs wear it ...players get paid out ..stops the shenaningans of clubs trying to rort something else

You sure your not on the RLPA ??

 

[jirskyr]

Maybe its more appropriate to think where the big corporate dollar is backing various clubs, you will see increased attention / interest / favouritism by NRL HQ?

You "may" see, rather than you "will". Brisbane Broncos are by far the most corporate backed NRL club in the country, yet I don't really see an intentional favouritism from the NRL. Broncos get a lot of Friday night games because they pull 30K crowds, but that's really it.

And it would be extremely naive for anyone to think that all clubs clubs aren't trying to lobby the NRL all the time, and some clubs may be better at it than others.

 

[cochise]

So every club starts offering extra year contracts to near retired players (with TPA’s )
Gee that’s not going to get rorted by the clubs with more money and bigger chances of winning premierships
May as well shove the copper pipe and barbed wire up the WT’s clackers now and remove the copper pipe
It’s a full moon tonight isn’t it

So players aren't allowed to retire when they have an injury they feel is too difficult to overcome? He has been assessed by NRL doctors and will take 2 years to overcome that injury, the Rabbits then approached the NRL and asked for permission to give him a job that will take 10 years to make the value of his contract. This is how it should work!

Clubs wear it ...players get paid out ..stops the shenaningans of clubs trying to rort something else

You sure your not on the RLPA ??

Burgess is not getting paid out though!

 

[happy_tiger]

So every club starts offering extra year contracts to near retired players (with TPA’s )
Gee that’s not going to get rorted by the clubs with more money and bigger chances of winning premierships
May as well shove the copper pipe and barbed wire up the WT’s clackers now and remove the copper pipe
It’s a full moon tonight isn’t it

So players aren't allowed to retire when they have an injury they feel is too difficult to overcome? He has been assessed by NRL doctors and will take 2 years to overcome that injury, the Rabbits then approached the NRL and asked for permission to give him a job that will take 10 years to make the value of his contract. This is how it should work!

Except the NRL rules specifically say that Medical Retirement is only if the injury is to a part of the body that has not previously injured or reasonably predictable that would cause a degenerative injury. The shoulder that he injured and had reconstructed under his current contract he had busted and previously been reconstructed prior to his contract.

It is clearly contrary to NRL rules but Greenberg is typically inconsistent

I believe Souths successfully argued the retirement is because of a severe infection in the joint which he had operated. So yes the shoulder was injured before but it was the infection which permanently affected his shoulder function.

IMO it all gets a bit silly, which is why I am ok with the retirements. What if you injure your knee one year, but a different injury to the same knee puts you to retirement. Are they related? Absolutely the first knee injury will impact the long-term capacity of your knee, but who is to say with absolute confidence that they are totally unrelated, or to what extent they are related? No part of the body operates in absolute separation from others.

Why bother fussing about it, just let them go.

The staph infection would have exacabated the arthritis in the joint

Before all the Dr Happy comments start I went through this in June ...had minor knee surgery and then got a staph infection ....the wash they use when they flush the infection out aggravates the arthritis in the joints

 

[Tiger5150]

Funny how quick the decision was by the NRL regarding the Burgess cap.
Our one for Ben Mato took forever.

It is the offseason. Do you officially know how long it took between Tigers submitting Mats vs NRL decision? Did we submit before the GF?

I think they were all handled in adequate time - Tigers have had ample time to start putting Mats' money to use prior to 2020.

Time frame or no time frame the Burgess call is crap ...and it shows to me how stupid the NRL thinks we as fans are

Their own medico was the one saying that Burgess could be back by the 2022 ...what that didn't suit the poor ol Wabbits and Wusty's time frame

I'm fine with that. Why can't a player retire due to legitimate serious injury and not have to penalise the club for having signed them to a contract, take it off the salary cap?

WT didn't get any dispensation for Liam Fulton and that was despite the game introducing the HIA system to protect player health, so how can this be okay?

Did we not get anything at all, can anyone confirm 100%? I can only find media reports of Tigers applying for salary cap relief for Fulton, no record of the actual outcome.

Also, even if we didn't get relief back then, by current standards I think we should have. But Fulton retired 5 years ago at the forefront of the new concussion rules, so it's hard to say.

Actually pretty easy to say. Fulton did not and still does not meet the requirements of the NRL rules. It didn’t happen in a single incident in a single game, and there were previous injuries before the last contract that could reasonably expect to exacerbate the injury.

So it's not OK, but Fulton retired in 2014 not 2019. When is the last player to be rejected for medical retirement? We've just had 3 approved in the past few months, so it appears the NRL has changed their assessment of what constitutes a medical retirement and I'm ok with that.


Matai and Brett Stewart at Manly both had medical retirements rejected due to injuries suffered prior to last contract. Same rules that Burgess was supposedly assessed under.


Happy is worried about it being rorted but I just don't see so many players opting to take medical retirement, and I don't see any being able to fake medical retirement, so you are going to have legitimate situations of career-end players with long-term debilitating injuries, being paid out as they would be anyway, but simply the club not being penalised for that outcome.

Because anyone who thinks Souths wouldn't rather have a fit Burgess playing rather than having to find a late-notice replacement, is kidding. This is a non-optimal outcome for Souths.

So what about the Inglis case. Not injured “forgoes” his contract $$$, doesn’t count on cap and then gets a “job” that equals his contract money. Is that a rort..? Compared to Farah?

 

[JD Tiger]

So every club starts offering extra year contracts to near retired players (with TPA’s )
Gee that’s not going to get rorted by the clubs with more money and bigger chances of winning premierships
May as well shove the copper pipe and barbed wire up the WT’s clackers now and remove the copper pipe
It’s a full moon tonight isn’t it

So players aren't allowed to retire when they have an injury they feel is too difficult to overcome? He has been assessed by NRL doctors and will take 2 years to overcome that injury, the Rabbits then approached the NRL and asked for permission to give him a job that will take 10 years to make the value of his contract. This is how it should work!

It wasn't a new injury, it was an infection from an old injury he had surgery on. If it was a new injury then I could stomach that. But as usual, the NRL set the rules, then open a window where they can use their discretion. If it was a fair dinkum situation, there'd be no reason for a 10 year admin deal.

The NRL is so consistently inconsistent, you could set your watch by it (though no matter what time it is, they'd still say it's different depending on what team they are dealing with).

 

[OzLuke]

Funny how quick the decision was by the NRL regarding the Burgess cap.
Our one for Ben Mato took forever.

It is the offseason. Do you officially know how long it took between Tigers submitting Mats vs NRL decision? Did we submit before the GF?

I think they were all handled in adequate time - Tigers have had ample time to start putting Mats' money to use prior to 2020.

Time frame or no time frame the Burgess call is crap ...and it shows to me how stupid the NRL thinks we as fans are

Their own medico was the one saying that Burgess could be back by the 2022 ...what that didn't suit the poor ol Wabbits and Wusty's time frame

I'm fine with that. Why can't a player retire due to legitimate serious injury and not have to penalise the club for having signed them to a contract, take it off the salary cap?

WT didn't get any dispensation for Liam Fulton and that was despite the game introducing the HIA system to protect player health, so how can this be okay?

Did we not get anything at all, can anyone confirm 100%? I can only find media reports of Tigers applying for salary cap relief for Fulton, no record of the actual outcome.

Also, even if we didn't get relief back then, by current standards I think we should have. But Fulton retired 5 years ago at the forefront of the new concussion rules, so it's hard to say.

So it's not OK, but Fulton retired in 2014 not 2019. When is the last player to be rejected for medical retirement? We've just had 3 approved in the past few months, so it appears the NRL has changed their assessment of what constitutes a medical retirement and I'm ok with that.

Happy is worried about it being rorted but I just don't see so many players opting to take medical retirement, and I don't see any being able to fake medical retirement, so you are going to have legitimate situations of career-end players with long-term debilitating injuries, being paid out as they would be anyway, but simply the club not being penalised for that outcome.

Because anyone who thinks Souths wouldn't rather have a fit Burgess playing rather than having to find a late-notice replacement, is kidding. This is a non-optimal outcome for Souths.

poor Sammy's shoulder wasn't that bad that he couldn't sling that young lady atop of it during that holiday to mexico or wherever it was...bahahaha

 

[cochise]

So what about the Inglis case. Not injured “forgoes” his contract $$$, doesn’t count on cap and then gets a “job” that equals his contract money. Is that a rort…? Compared to Farah?

You can't see the difference in the Farah and Inglis cases?

 

[cochise]

So every club starts offering extra year contracts to near retired players (with TPA’s )
Gee that’s not going to get rorted by the clubs with more money and bigger chances of winning premierships
May as well shove the copper pipe and barbed wire up the WT’s clackers now and remove the copper pipe
It’s a full moon tonight isn’t it

So players aren't allowed to retire when they have an injury they feel is too difficult to overcome? He has been assessed by NRL doctors and will take 2 years to overcome that injury, the Rabbits then approached the NRL and asked for permission to give him a job that will take 10 years to make the value of his contract. This is how it should work!

It wasn't a new injury, it was an infection from an old injury he had surgery on. If it was a new injury then I could stomach that. But as usual, the NRL set the rules, then open a window where they can use their discretion. If it was a fair dinkum situation, there'd be no reason for a 10 year admin deal.

The NRL is so consistently inconsistent, you could set your watch by it (though no matter what time it is, they'd still say it's different depending on what team they are dealing with).

I don't care when his injury occurred, I don't care if he has just decided he doesn't want to play anymore. Once a player retires and forgoes his salary I don't think a team should have to carry that on their cap!

I notice that no one here seems to mention the fact the Matulino didn't announce his retirement until after the approval for the medical retirement was granted where Burgess retired irrespective of the outcome. To me that make Mats retirement look more suss than Burgess', Mats gets the payout and Burgess doesn't.

I'm actually happy both salaries have been removed from the respective caps, that is how it should be if a player no longer wishes to play!