Luke Brooks

[cochise]

People can complain about Brooks as much as they like, some if it's justified and some of it isn't. At the end of the day if this side as a COLLLECTIVE cannot find it within them to generate some line speed in defence and use their shoulders for once to hurt the opposition, then this discussion is more of a sideshow to a much larger problem.

Defence wins matches and I don't have a problem with Brooks in this regard.

Our defensive line has just been so passive, it doesn't move up and just waits for the players to come to them.

The underlying question is WHY? They spend all off-season training, getting fit, practicing drills, ballwork, defensive patterns - why can't they ever do this on game day?

That's a question I'd love to ask Madge, or Pascoe...I mean are they instructed to wait and let the opposition bend them backwards?

I was actually discussing this last night, the only strategy I can see where you would be that passive is if you are trying to hold a player upright in a tackle then drop them late to slow the ruck speed. It is a tactic I have seen used before but if that is the tactic we are not implementing it well.

The problem still is they have blokes pouring out of the line smashing fresh air with this passive defence .....the other problem with our passive defence is that it is so easy to plant someone with even the smallest amount of footwork

We are the worst defensive side I have ever watched play. They just don't look to engage until the player runs into them. I've never really seen anything like it.

I have ...
In under 8’s

That is exactly what I was thinking as I wrote that post. I don't like being that guy that say "when I played" but I remember as a kid, I had a guy running down the side line and as he stepped back in field around the fullback I just kinda grabbed at him. I remember the serve my dad gave me after the game and when I said he stepped infield my dad gave it to me and said that was the moment you should have drove the shoulder straight into him. It was one of the best lesson I learnt on the field.

I was 11 at the time, thing is I think some of these players we have would have done the same thing I did when I was 11. I'm glad I didn't watch the game with my dad yesterday lol.

 

[cochise]

People can complain about Brooks as much as they like, some if it's justified and some of it isn't. At the end of the day if this side as a COLLLECTIVE cannot find it within them to generate some line speed in defence and use their shoulders for once to hurt the opposition, then this discussion is more of a sideshow to a much larger problem.

Defence wins matches and I don't have a problem with Brooks in this regard.

100% agree

Not to mention pressuring the opp kicker, depth in attack, supporting the ball-runner. All comes down to attitude really & wanting to make that effort upon effort.

But we've had blokes who generate line speed ...they get called plodders ..and we let them go

Bryce Gibbs
Elijah Taylor
gareth Ellis

I mentioned Taylor yesterday, I think the side is missing him in that regard.

 

[hobbo1]

People can complain about Brooks as much as they like, some if it's justified and some of it isn't. At the end of the day if this side as a COLLLECTIVE cannot find it within them to generate some line speed in defence and use their shoulders for once to hurt the opposition, then this discussion is more of a sideshow to a much larger problem.

Defence wins matches and I don't have a problem with Brooks in this regard.

Our defensive line has just been so passive, it doesn't move up and just waits for the players to come to them.

The underlying question is WHY? They spend all off-season training, getting fit, practicing drills, ballwork, defensive patterns - why can't they ever do this on game day?

That's a question I'd love to ask Madge, or Pascoe...I mean are they instructed to wait and let the opposition bend them backwards?

I was actually discussing this last night, the only strategy I can see where you would be that passive is if you are trying to hold a player upright in a tackle then drop them late to slow the ruck speed. It is a tactic I have seen used before but if that is the tactic we are not implementing it well.

The problem still is they have blokes pouring out of the line smashing fresh air with this passive defence .....the other problem with our passive defence is that it is so easy to plant someone with even the smallest amount of footwork

We are the worst defensive side I have ever watched play. They just don't look to engage until the player runs into them. I've never really seen anything like it.

I have ...
In under 8’s

That is exactly what I was thinking as I wrote that post. I don't like being that guy that say "when I played" but I remember as a kid, I had a guy running down the side line and as he stepped back in field around the fullback I just kinda grabbed at him. I remember the serve my dad gave me after the game and when I said he stepped infield my dad gave it to me and said that was the moment you should have drove the shoulder straight into him. It was one of the best lesson I learnt on the field.

I was 11 at the time, thing is I think some of these players we have would have done the same thing I did when I was 11. I'm glad I didn't watch the game with my dad yesterday lol.

Sorry I should’ve added
Under 8’s
Div 5
“ the window lickers”

 

[bythebeardofzeus]

People can complain about Brooks as much as they like, some if it's justified and some of it isn't. At the end of the day if this side as a COLLLECTIVE cannot find it within them to generate some line speed in defence and use their shoulders for once to hurt the opposition, then this discussion is more of a sideshow to a much larger problem.

Defence wins matches and I don't have a problem with Brooks in this regard.

100% agree

Not to mention pressuring the opp kicker, depth in attack, supporting the ball-runner. All comes down to attitude really & wanting to make that effort upon effort.

But we've had blokes who generate line speed ...they get called plodders ..and we let them go

Bryce Gibbs
Elijah Taylor
gareth Ellis

In that case maybe we should add “plodder” to the whiteboard, never to be uttered again. Ah to have Gareth Ellis in his prime playing for us again.

Re. attitude, somebody posted during the live game thread about Nofo walking back his 10 back turned to the ball (which I also witnessed a few times at the game), JtJ not chasing their first try, etc. we just didn’t show up. Very disappointing.

 

[mike]

People can complain about Brooks as much as they like, some if it's justified and some of it isn't. At the end of the day if this side as a COLLLECTIVE cannot find it within them to generate some line speed in defence and use their shoulders for once to hurt the opposition, then this discussion is more of a sideshow to a much larger problem.

Defence wins matches and I don't have a problem with Brooks in this regard.

100% agree

Not to mention pressuring the opp kicker, depth in attack, supporting the ball-runner. All comes down to attitude really & wanting to make that effort upon effort.

But we've had blokes who generate line speed ...they get called plodders ..and we let them go

Bryce Gibbs
Elijah Taylor
gareth Ellis

Ellis was home sick and so yes we technically let him go. It was the right thing todo.

Gibbs - the Minister of defence - was a terrible mistake to let go, and to a slightly lesser degree ET was as well.

 

[Telltails]

The scapegoating and vitriol against Luke Brooks is both naive and dangerous because it will only hide the unpalatable truth. The problems run much deeper than the halfback. Yes he has some significant shortcomings as a playmaker and game manager and this has been evident for some time. Get him some expert and proven coaching around him. Laurie Daly, Cooper Cronk, Andrew Johns .... The current problems at Wests Tigers are far more fundamental than Luke Brooks. It would help if forwards ran hard and fast at the opposition to make them be feared; it would help if the whole team tackled with some aggressive purpose; it would help if players didn't spill the ball regularly, drop bombs or forward pass from dummy half. Please be honest here. Removing Luke Brooks will NOT answer the fundamental problem of lack of onfield leadership, lack of onfield aggression and purpose, lack of go forward, lack of smarts, lack of skill and execution.
The whole team needs to take responsibility for such recent poor performances and stop reaching for the easy to shoot scapegoat in Luke Brooks.

Awesome post!
We all complain about ‘lazy journalism.’ Well I think a lot of post game comments from us fans can be categorised the same. We lost - blame Brooks.
I agree he is not a successful game manager but there is soooo much more wrong with our current and past teams - thus previous post articulates this beautifully.
Brooks has been hammered relentlessly. He deserves no more (and no less) criticism than anyone else in our club.
I have two sons around the same age as Luke. I watch them and I wonder how he copes with the relentless, ill-informed, biased, targeted and sometimes personal attacks.
Brooks isn’t perfect but he does heaps for this team and bleeds literally and figuratively for our club.
If he leaves I wouldn’t blame him but if he needs to go then 29 others need to follow.

It's a pattern of behaviour that comes with losing. Farah and Benji have both been victims of the same level of criticism. They were both blamed for our failures and every player who played inside or outside them. It

 

[happy_tiger]

People can complain about Brooks as much as they like, some if it's justified and some of it isn't. At the end of the day if this side as a COLLLECTIVE cannot find it within them to generate some line speed in defence and use their shoulders for once to hurt the opposition, then this discussion is more of a sideshow to a much larger problem.

Defence wins matches and I don't have a problem with Brooks in this regard.

100% agree

Not to mention pressuring the opp kicker, depth in attack, supporting the ball-runner. All comes down to attitude really & wanting to make that effort upon effort.

But we've had blokes who generate line speed ...they get called plodders ..and we let them go

Bryce Gibbs
Elijah Taylor
gareth Ellis

In that case maybe we should add “plodder” to the whiteboard, never to be uttered again. Ah to have Gareth Ellis in his prime playing for us again.

Re. attitude, somebody posted during the live game thread about Nofo walking back his 10 back turned to the ball (which I also witnessed a few times at the game), JtJ not chasing their first try, etc. we just didn’t show up. Very disappointing.

The whole side turns it's back in defence ...they take every bad habit that was flogged out of you as a junior in my day ...you could have had both eyes gouged out ...you never turned you back on the attack coming at you

 

[mike]

People can complain about Brooks as much as they like, some if it's justified and some of it isn't. At the end of the day if this side as a COLLLECTIVE cannot find it within them to generate some line speed in defence and use their shoulders for once to hurt the opposition, then this discussion is more of a sideshow to a much larger problem.

Defence wins matches and I don't have a problem with Brooks in this regard.

100% agree

Not to mention pressuring the opp kicker, depth in attack, supporting the ball-runner. All comes down to attitude really & wanting to make that effort upon effort.

But we've had blokes who generate line speed ...they get called plodders ..and we let them go

Bryce Gibbs
Elijah Taylor
gareth Ellis

In that case maybe we should add “plodder” to the whiteboard, never to be uttered again. Ah to have Gareth Ellis in his prime playing for us again.

Re. attitude, somebody posted during the live game thread about Nofo walking back his 10 back turned to the ball (which I also witnessed a few times at the game), JtJ not chasing their first try, etc. we just didn’t show up. Very disappointing.

The whole side turns it's back in defence ...they take every bad habit that was flogged out of you as a junior in my day ...you could have had both eyes gouged out ...you never turned you back on the attack coming at you

I must admit that is one of the things that has peeved me off for years, turning their backs on the attack while getting back onside. I had it drummed into me as well, never turn your back on the attack.

 

[the_third]

People can complain about Brooks as much as they like, some if it's justified and some of it isn't. At the end of the day if this side as a COLLLECTIVE cannot find it within them to generate some line speed in defence and use their shoulders for once to hurt the opposition, then this discussion is more of a sideshow to a much larger problem.

Defence wins matches and I don't have a problem with Brooks in this regard.

Our defensive line has just been so passive, it doesn't move up and just waits for the players to come to them.

The underlying question is WHY? They spend all off-season training, getting fit, practicing drills, ballwork, defensive patterns - why can't they ever do this on game day?

That's a question I'd love to ask Madge, or Pascoe...I mean are they instructed to wait and let the opposition bend them backwards?

I was actually discussing this last night, the only strategy I can see where you would be that passive is if you are trying to hold a player upright in a tackle then drop them late to slow the ruck speed. It is a tactic I have seen used before but if that is the tactic we are not implementing it well.

You can still do that with 2 big fast steps at the play the ball. Just need to be all at once.

 

[2005magic]

People can complain about Brooks as much as they like, some if it's justified and some of it isn't. At the end of the day if this side as a COLLLECTIVE cannot find it within them to generate some line speed in defence and use their shoulders for once to hurt the opposition, then this discussion is more of a sideshow to a much larger problem.

Defence wins matches and I don't have a problem with Brooks in this regard.

100% agree

Not to mention pressuring the opp kicker, depth in attack, supporting the ball-runner. All comes down to attitude really & wanting to make that effort upon effort.

But we've had blokes who generate line speed ...they get called plodders ..and we let them go

Bryce Gibbs
Elijah Taylor
gareth Ellis

Ellis was home sick and so yes we technically let him go. It was the right thing todo.

Gibbs - the Minister of defence - was a terrible mistake to let go, and to a slightly lesser degree ET was as well.

Yes, I think ET would be very useful in this 2021 game for WT.

 

[cochise]

People can complain about Brooks as much as they like, some if it's justified and some of it isn't. At the end of the day if this side as a COLLLECTIVE cannot find it within them to generate some line speed in defence and use their shoulders for once to hurt the opposition, then this discussion is more of a sideshow to a much larger problem.

Defence wins matches and I don't have a problem with Brooks in this regard.

100% agree

Not to mention pressuring the opp kicker, depth in attack, supporting the ball-runner. All comes down to attitude really & wanting to make that effort upon effort.

But we've had blokes who generate line speed ...they get called plodders ..and we let them go

Bryce Gibbs
Elijah Taylor
gareth Ellis

In that case maybe we should add “plodder” to the whiteboard, never to be uttered again. Ah to have Gareth Ellis in his prime playing for us again.

Re. attitude, somebody posted during the live game thread about Nofo walking back his 10 back turned to the ball (which I also witnessed a few times at the game), JtJ not chasing their first try, etc. we just didn’t show up. Very disappointing.

Plodder and Gareth Ellis should never be in the same sentence.

 

[cochise]

People can complain about Brooks as much as they like, some if it's justified and some of it isn't. At the end of the day if this side as a COLLLECTIVE cannot find it within them to generate some line speed in defence and use their shoulders for once to hurt the opposition, then this discussion is more of a sideshow to a much larger problem.

Defence wins matches and I don't have a problem with Brooks in this regard.

Our defensive line has just been so passive, it doesn't move up and just waits for the players to come to them.

The underlying question is WHY? They spend all off-season training, getting fit, practicing drills, ballwork, defensive patterns - why can't they ever do this on game day?

That's a question I'd love to ask Madge, or Pascoe...I mean are they instructed to wait and let the opposition bend them backwards?

I was actually discussing this last night, the only strategy I can see where you would be that passive is if you are trying to hold a player upright in a tackle then drop them late to slow the ruck speed. It is a tactic I have seen used before but if that is the tactic we are not implementing it well.

You can still do that with 2 big fast steps at the play the ball. Just need to be all at once.

Yes you can, it looks like we go 2 big fast steps backwards most tackles.

 

[tony soprano]

The more I think about perhaps madden is the organising half we need and would be much cheaper than Reynolds save the money to build centre, lock, second row and Simpkin will be up for an upgrade soon.

 

[Tim Sheens]

A couple were actually closer to the line and yet still some that whinged about them being 10m out in past weeks still whine and say they should have been higher, even though the breeze would have risked 7 tackle sets and when he could hoist one high we got a result from it.

Those kicks were crap. Now we are looking at wind as a defense. More hot air!

Plus he backed up through the middle on the early tackles when Liddle had forwards to feed.

You are seriously clutching to find anything to defend the guy.

Plus he controlled play and created the space for the Garner and Nofoaluma tries.

No he did not. He just passed it and let Douehi make the play. Which is the best thing he can do btw. Because he sucks!

Plus he laid on kicks for two tries.
Average. So many crap kicks. So many!!!

Plus he did other good things, yet still got criticism for playing his role well.

No he didn’t. And Halfback isn’t a role player.
And he made so many mistakes, drops, crap pass selections, garbage kicks, not taking control.

But once again, I blame Madge and co for selecting him and putting false confidence in him.

Well that shows a just how shallow your knowledge of the game is.

Which part?

And physics.

Cool story. Needs more dragons.

He'd do well there and against them too.

 

[bigsiro]

A couple were actually closer to the line and yet still some that whinged about them being 10m out in past weeks still whine and say they should have been higher, even though the breeze would have risked 7 tackle sets and when he could hoist one high we got a result from it.

Those kicks were crap. Now we are looking at wind as a defense. More hot air!

Plus he backed up through the middle on the early tackles when Liddle had forwards to feed.

You are seriously clutching to find anything to defend the guy.

Plus he controlled play and created the space for the Garner and Nofoaluma tries.

No he did not. He just passed it and let Douehi make the play. Which is the best thing he can do btw. Because he sucks!

Plus he laid on kicks for two tries.
Average. So many crap kicks. So many!!!

Plus he did other good things, yet still got criticism for playing his role well.

No he didn’t. And Halfback isn’t a role player.
And he made so many mistakes, drops, crap pass selections, garbage kicks, not taking control.

But once again, I blame Madge and co for selecting him and putting false confidence in him.

Well that shows a just how shallow your knowledge of the game is.

Which part?

And physics.

Cool story. Needs more dragons.

He'd do well there and against them too.

He did once. Was his best game ever. We all remember it.

 

[Camel2281]

It certainly wasn’t Brooks’ fault Wests Tigers lost that game but it is absolutely on him that Wests Tigers didn’t win either.

That literally makes no sense. Lost and "didn't win" are the same thing. Either it's his fault, or it isn't.


No there is a difference, sorry you don't see it.

Just one more time, so you can understand.

Lost = didn't win. On that I think we can agree (ignoring draws).

"It certainly wasn’t Brooks’ fault Wests Tigers lost that game"
"It certainly wasn’t Brooks’ fault Wests Tigers didn't win that game"

If Luke Brooks isn't responsible for losing, then he can't be simultaneously responsible for not winning. It's just not physically possible.

You just don’t get it and that’s OK.

Is it certainly not my fault that I don't get it, or is it absolutely on me that I misunderstand?

I think he means that the loss cannot be entirely blamed on Brooks. But Brooks was definitely to blame for robbing the team the opportunity of winning by folding under pressure with the game on the line by dropping a simple kick off

 

[jirskyr]

It certainly wasn’t Brooks’ fault Wests Tigers lost that game but it is absolutely on him that Wests Tigers didn’t win either.

That literally makes no sense. Lost and "didn't win" are the same thing. Either it's his fault, or it isn't.


No there is a difference, sorry you don't see it.

Just one more time, so you can understand.

Lost = didn't win. On that I think we can agree (ignoring draws).

"It certainly wasn’t Brooks’ fault Wests Tigers lost that game"
"It certainly wasn’t Brooks’ fault Wests Tigers didn't win that game"

If Luke Brooks isn't responsible for losing, then he can't be simultaneously responsible for not winning. It's just not physically possible.

You just don’t get it and that’s OK.

Is it certainly not my fault that I don't get it, or is it absolutely on me that I misunderstand?

I think he means that the loss cannot be entirely blamed on Brooks. But Brooks was definitely to blame for robbing the team the opportunity of winning by folding under pressure with the game on the line by dropping a simple kick off

Firstly it wasn't a simply kickoff, I sat right behind it, Kyle Feldt kicks them like Pat Richards used to and it swirled and moved late.

Secondly, ok Brooks dropped the football once. What about every other bloke who dropped the footy the other 79 minutes? They robbed us too, correct? Nofo on that kick restart, Stefano mid-field. Jimmy Jet trying to get around the side and getting tackled into touch. Liddle's forward pass. Also the missed tackles, Joffa missing that young fellow taking a crash ball, nobody cleaning up Drinkwater, Nofo letting Hammer get on his outside etc etc

Only a madman points the finger at a single player for a last-minute hail mary, when the whole team played like busteds for about 60 minutes.

 

[pawsandclaws1]

It certainly wasn’t Brooks’ fault Wests Tigers lost that game but it is absolutely on him that Wests Tigers didn’t win either.

That literally makes no sense. Lost and "didn't win" are the same thing. Either it's his fault, or it isn't.


No there is a difference, sorry you don't see it.

Just one more time, so you can understand.

Lost = didn't win. On that I think we can agree (ignoring draws).

"It certainly wasn’t Brooks’ fault Wests Tigers lost that game"
"It certainly wasn’t Brooks’ fault Wests Tigers didn't win that game"

If Luke Brooks isn't responsible for losing, then he can't be simultaneously responsible for not winning. It's just not physically possible.

You just don’t get it and that’s OK.

Is it certainly not my fault that I don't get it, or is it absolutely on me that I misunderstand?

I think he means that the loss cannot be entirely blamed on Brooks. But Brooks was definitely to blame for robbing the team the opportunity of winning by folding under pressure with the game on the line by dropping a simple kick off

Firstly it wasn't a simply kickoff, I sat right behind it, Kyle Feldt kicks them like Pat Richards used to and it swirled and moved late.

Secondly, ok Brooks dropped the football once. What about every other bloke who dropped the footy the other 79 minutes? They robbed us too, correct? Nofo on that kick restart, Stefano mid-field. Jimmy Jet trying to get around the side and getting tackled into touch. Liddle's forward pass. Also the missed tackles, Joffa missing that young fellow taking a crash ball, nobody cleaning up Drinkwater, Nofo letting Hammer get on his outside etc etc

Only a madman points the finger at a single player for a last-minute hail mary, when the whole team played like busteds for about 60 minutes.

Agreed. Why single out one player when blame should be apportioned to most of the team for the loss and the coach for again being out thought by Payten.

 

[TigerBlood93]

Not sure if anyone watched 100% footy but Phil Gould said the problem isn’t brooks, the tigers are the problem with brooks, he’s had 4-5 coaches in his career, close to 10 halves partners and different spine almost every other year with no forwards. How does he succeed with that? Phil Gould reckons he would fit in any top 6 side. 100% agree with that take.

Also believes there was absolutely nothing he could have done in the first half with our defence.

People need to stop blaming him. He’s leading in try assists for the comp. didn’t miss a tackle the other day and had only one error in the last 30 seconds. He is not the problem. Our defence and lack of line speed is killing us.

Put this into perspective
Brooks stats this year
Try assists brooks -7 reynolds -1
The only area reynolds beats brooks in is forced dropouts and that’s only by 3. But if you take into account the fact that brooks does all this in our weak team. It shows he’s much better than what people give him credit for.

 

[The_Patriot]

Not sure if anyone watched 100% footy but Phil Gould said the problem isn’t brooks, the tigers are the problem with brooks, he’s had 4-5 coaches in his career, close to 10 halves partners and different spine almost every other year with no forwards. How does he succeed with that? Phil Gould reckons he would fit in any top 6 side. 100% agree with that take.

Also believes there was absolutely nothing he could have done in the first half with our defence.

People need to stop blaming him. He’s leading in try assists for the comp. didn’t miss a tackle the other day and had only one error in the last 30 seconds. He is not the problem. Our defence and lack of line speed is killing us.

Put this into perspective
Brooks stats this year
Try assists brooks -7 reynolds -1
The only area reynolds beats brooks in is forced dropouts and that’s only by 3. But if you take into account the fact that brooks does all this in our weak team. It shows he’s much better than what people give him credit for.

Gould can sign him then. He would look fantastic in a Warriors jersey.