Madge Maguire - Mega Thread

[cochise]

What I really find depressing about this push for Flano as coach with WT is the way in which WT is perceived as an option of last resort. Why is there no push to see him at another club?

I've been pushing for John Morris, for a number of reasons. Firstly, he achieved good results with the Sharks at a difficult period in that club's history (there have been a few). I refer specifically to the loss of Gallen. Morris also was integral in the Sharks' highly successful pathways initiative. Morris is also an educated man which I believe is important insofar as communication with players and people management is concerned. Finally, I view him as having been influenced by Tim Sheens. An ongoing relationship between the two is crucial for success at WTs.

He wasn't wanted by the Sharks though and a lot of that seems to be because of communication issues with the players.



He was not wanted as they had already decided to go elsewhere … they punted him early as they did not want the embarrassment of sacking him when they made another FINAL SERIES .. have you forgotten how they did it !
As far as communication issues that side was playing great footy every week ..I would like some of that communication happening at my club !

Playing so great they got rid of him.

 

[jirskyr]

Flanagan is highly regarded for his knowledge and understanding of Rugby League and took a struggling club from the doldrums to a Grand Final and the Premiership

Sounds like the 2018 CV of Michael Maguire.

Let us all be honest with ourselves and agree on at least two things:

(1) Shane Flanagan has no better heritage or success rate than Madge, as a head coach. Any argument for Flanagan in 2022 could have been made for Madge starting 2019, and therefore it stands to reason that Flanagan is every chance of failing, as Madge has done. Not that he definitely would fail, but that the reputation of "being held in high regard for league knowledge and good results at previous clubs" can be applied to people like Ivan Cleary and Madge as equally as Flanagan.

(2) Shane Flanagan oversaw a systematic doping regime at his club, was suspended, then was later found guilty of contravening that suspension. So whatever you personally believe about retribution, Shane Flanagan did not in fact "serve his time", he kept on trying to operate his club whilst suspended, so the NRL extended his ban.

 

[pawsandclaws1]

What I really find depressing about this push for Flano as coach with WT is the way in which WT is perceived as an option of last resort. Why is there no push to see him at another club?

I've been pushing for John Morris, for a number of reasons. Firstly, he achieved good results with the Sharks at a difficult period in that club's history (there have been a few). I refer specifically to the loss of Gallen. Morris also was integral in the Sharks' highly successful pathways initiative. Morris is also an educated man which I believe is important insofar as communication with players and people management is concerned. Finally, I view him as having been influenced by Tim Sheens. An ongoing relationship between the two is crucial for success at WTs.

He wasn't wanted by the Sharks though and a lot of that seems to be because of communication issues with the players.

Yet despite difficulties with overpaid and underperforming players he still took the club to two top 8 finishes.

That would be a position no doubt WTs management would enjoy being in!

The reality is we are stuck with the many excuses coming from the Maguire apologists.

The players named by Foxsporrs were Fifita, Dugan and Moylan.

https://www.foxsports.com.au/nrl/nrl-premiership/nrl-2020-sharks-player-unrest-andrew-fifita-matt-moylan-john-morris-wade-graham-cronulla-josh-dugan/news-story/00fc9737de8d69c37f533f9785518495

 

[pawsandclaws1]

What I really find depressing about this push for Flano as coach with WT is the way in which WT is perceived as an option of last resort. Why is there no push to see him at another club?

I've been pushing for John Morris, for a number of reasons. Firstly, he achieved good results with the Sharks at a difficult period in that club's history (there have been a few). I refer specifically to the loss of Gallen. Morris also was integral in the Sharks' highly successful pathways initiative. Morris is also an educated man which I believe is important insofar as communication with players and people management is concerned. Finally, I view him as having been influenced by Tim Sheens. An ongoing relationship between the two is crucial for success at WTs.

He wasn't wanted by the Sharks though and a lot of that seems to be because of communication issues with the players.



He was not wanted as they had already decided to go elsewhere … they punted him early as they did not want the embarrassment of sacking him when they made another FINAL SERIES .. have you forgotten how they did it !
As far as communication issues that side was playing great footy every week ..I would like some of that communication happening at my club !

Playing so great they got rid of him.

Look at the disaster at WTs!

 

[Go_You_Good_Things]

There seems to be a lot of emphasis on the coach.
Let me ask you guys this : If we had our 2005 squad playing today ( No, not 16 years older ) with Madge coaching them . . . . and then had today's squad playing for us in 2005, coached by Sheens . . . . which team would perform better ?
And there's most of the reason we're having this discussion..

 

[cochise]

What I really find depressing about this push for Flano as coach with WT is the way in which WT is perceived as an option of last resort. Why is there no push to see him at another club?

I've been pushing for John Morris, for a number of reasons. Firstly, he achieved good results with the Sharks at a difficult period in that club's history (there have been a few). I refer specifically to the loss of Gallen. Morris also was integral in the Sharks' highly successful pathways initiative. Morris is also an educated man which I believe is important insofar as communication with players and people management is concerned. Finally, I view him as having been influenced by Tim Sheens. An ongoing relationship between the two is crucial for success at WTs.

He wasn't wanted by the Sharks though and a lot of that seems to be because of communication issues with the players.

Yet despite difficulties with overpaid and underperforming players he still took the club to two top 8 finishes.

That would be a position no doubt WTs management would enjoy being in!

The reality is we are stuck with the many excuses coming from the Maguire apologists.

The players named by Foxsporrs were Fifita, Dugan and Moylan.

https://www.foxsports.com.au/nrl/nrl-premiership/nrl-2020-sharks-player-unrest-andrew-fifita-matt-moylan-john-morris-wade-graham-cronulla-josh-dugan/news-story/00fc9737de8d69c37f533f9785518495

Who is a Maguire apologist?

 

[pawsandclaws1]

What I really find depressing about this push for Flano as coach with WT is the way in which WT is perceived as an option of last resort. Why is there no push to see him at another club?

I've been pushing for John Morris, for a number of reasons. Firstly, he achieved good results with the Sharks at a difficult period in that club's history (there have been a few). I refer specifically to the loss of Gallen. Morris also was integral in the Sharks' highly successful pathways initiative. Morris is also an educated man which I believe is important insofar as communication with players and people management is concerned. Finally, I view him as having been influenced by Tim Sheens. An ongoing relationship between the two is crucial for success at WTs.

He wasn't wanted by the Sharks though and a lot of that seems to be because of communication issues with the players.

Yet despite difficulties with overpaid and underperforming players he still took the club to two top 8 finishes.

That would be a position no doubt WTs management would enjoy being in!

The reality is we are stuck with the many excuses coming from the Maguire apologists.

The players named by Foxsporrs were Fifita, Dugan and Moylan.

https://www.foxsports.com.au/nrl/nrl-premiership/nrl-2020-sharks-player-unrest-andrew-fifita-matt-moylan-john-morris-wade-graham-cronulla-josh-dugan/news-story/00fc9737de8d69c37f533f9785518495

Who is a Maguire apologist?

Plenty on this forum,

 

[cochise]

What I really find depressing about this push for Flano as coach with WT is the way in which WT is perceived as an option of last resort. Why is there no push to see him at another club?

I've been pushing for John Morris, for a number of reasons. Firstly, he achieved good results with the Sharks at a difficult period in that club's history (there have been a few). I refer specifically to the loss of Gallen. Morris also was integral in the Sharks' highly successful pathways initiative. Morris is also an educated man which I believe is important insofar as communication with players and people management is concerned. Finally, I view him as having been influenced by Tim Sheens. An ongoing relationship between the two is crucial for success at WTs.

He wasn't wanted by the Sharks though and a lot of that seems to be because of communication issues with the players.

Yet despite difficulties with overpaid and underperforming players he still took the club to two top 8 finishes.

That would be a position no doubt WTs management would enjoy being in!

The reality is we are stuck with the many excuses coming from the Maguire apologists.

The players named by Foxsporrs were Fifita, Dugan and Moylan.

https://www.foxsports.com.au/nrl/nrl-premiership/nrl-2020-sharks-player-unrest-andrew-fifita-matt-moylan-john-morris-wade-graham-cronulla-josh-dugan/news-story/00fc9737de8d69c37f533f9785518495

Who is a Maguire apologist?

Plenty on this forum,

Hope you aren't including me in that.

 

[jirskyr]

What I really find depressing about this push for Flano as coach with WT is the way in which WT is perceived as an option of last resort. Why is there no push to see him at another club?

I've been pushing for John Morris, for a number of reasons. Firstly, he achieved good results with the Sharks at a difficult period in that club's history (there have been a few). I refer specifically to the loss of Gallen. Morris also was integral in the Sharks' highly successful pathways initiative. Morris is also an educated man which I believe is important insofar as communication with players and people management is concerned. Finally, I view him as having been influenced by Tim Sheens. An ongoing relationship between the two is crucial for success at WTs.

He wasn't wanted by the Sharks though and a lot of that seems to be because of communication issues with the players.

Yet despite difficulties with overpaid and underperforming players he still took the club to two top 8 finishes.

That would be a position no doubt WTs management would enjoy being in!

The reality is we are stuck with the many excuses coming from the Maguire apologists.

The players named by Foxsporrs were Fifita, Dugan and Moylan.

https://www.foxsports.com.au/nrl/nrl-premiership/nrl-2020-sharks-player-unrest-andrew-fifita-matt-moylan-john-morris-wade-graham-cronulla-josh-dugan/news-story/00fc9737de8d69c37f533f9785518495

Who is a Maguire apologist?

I don't think paws can understand the difference between supporting Madge and not liking the list of potential replacements in August 2021. There is a middle ground for Madge or Brooks where certain fans (like me) are fine if they are sacked, but only if we have some idea who the replacement would be.

 

[pawsandclaws1]

What I really find depressing about this push for Flano as coach with WT is the way in which WT is perceived as an option of last resort. Why is there no push to see him at another club?

I've been pushing for John Morris, for a number of reasons. Firstly, he achieved good results with the Sharks at a difficult period in that club's history (there have been a few). I refer specifically to the loss of Gallen. Morris also was integral in the Sharks' highly successful pathways initiative. Morris is also an educated man which I believe is important insofar as communication with players and people management is concerned. Finally, I view him as having been influenced by Tim Sheens. An ongoing relationship between the two is crucial for success at WTs.

He wasn't wanted by the Sharks though and a lot of that seems to be because of communication issues with the players.

Yet despite difficulties with overpaid and underperforming players he still took the club to two top 8 finishes.

That would be a position no doubt WTs management would enjoy being in!

The reality is we are stuck with the many excuses coming from the Maguire apologists.

The players named by Foxsporrs were Fifita, Dugan and Moylan.

https://www.foxsports.com.au/nrl/nrl-premiership/nrl-2020-sharks-player-unrest-andrew-fifita-matt-moylan-john-morris-wade-graham-cronulla-josh-dugan/news-story/00fc9737de8d69c37f533f9785518495

Who is a Maguire apologist?

Plenty on this forum,

Hope you aren't including me in that.

No.

 

[Snake]

I'd go for Shane Flanagan. Players seem to like him. What we have ain't working.

No thank you

I agree....big no for flanagan

1. Sack Maguire

For who?

Separate issues. Maguire's sacking is not dependent upon a replacement.

As is often said, "better the devil you know".

To sack Maguire without a continuity plan, without some confidence of a replacement - that's mismanagement. One of your least sensible suggestions.

Multi national companies and Federal/State Department change CEOs and Directors routinely. Changing a football coach cannot be too difficult

And you conveniently forget we have Sheens and Hartigan to provide continuity.

You show me a big company that changes the CEO, except for unlawful activity, without having the replacement already lined up. Business suicide and your stocks will tank.

Removing a football coach isn't difficult - just tell him not to come back. Replacing a football coach is very difficult.

I didn't conveniently forget anything. You want a 70 year old ex-coach who hasn't been in the country for several years to caretake for an unspecified time until we replace the head coach? And a football general manager to help him.

I'm sorry it's a dumb suggestion to remove a coach without a proper replacement. By all means, go sign up Ciraldo or someone else (no drug or suspension cheats thanks) and let Madge finish the season, or install a caretaker if Madge quits a la John Morris, but don't just hook him with no proper replacement lined up.

Where did I write I expected Sheens to be coach or a caretaker?

Appointing a younger coach like Morris with Sheens to provide guidance is a reasonable outcome. It cannot be any worse than the banquet of bullshit that is being produced currently.

I did also mention appointing a caretaker coach whilst a robust recruitment process identifies a replacement. That can occur this year whilst a caretaker coach restores confidence in the playing group.

Mate how can Tim Sheens provide continuity for Madge being sacked? The bloke isn't even in the country. This season has 5 rounds to go, there's no point doing anything with season 2021, the new bloke wouldn't even get his feet wet.

If you were going to do it, you'd advise Madge that he's not being retained, let him see out the year, get the new guy now and have the new guy prep for the off-season. That's the smart way to do the transition.

And I'll say again - "not being worse" than the current predicament is a very bad benchmark to be setting. I want the new coach to be very strong odds of putting in a much better performance than 2019-2021, not another limp into 9th or 10th place. Madge has proven he can get us to 9th.

You didn't answer my question. Where did I write that I expected Sheens to be coach or caretaker?

Sheens has started work now according to the post on this forum yesterday. Seems like continuity has commenced. Imagine that!

Bring in the caretaker, or bring in a permanent replacement after the process. John Morris has always been my choice. Get rid of Maguire.

You are splitting hairs, so let's split hairs then - I didn't say you explicity said Sheens would be the coach. "Caretake" doesn't mean Sheens himself has to step into the role, it also means he supports or oversees someone else in the role.

The actual point of discussion is whether we cut Madge without a replacement lined up, which you are in favour of, and I am not. If John Morris is the long-term solution, so be it, get him in right now to start pre-season for 2022. I don't want caretakers 5 weeks out from the end of the season.

But I also point out there's very little Tim Sheens can do about supporting a new coach on a Zoom from the UK. Bloke needs to be in-country for that to be a workable solution.

The Morris boat has sailed another club has signed him on as an assistant not all clubs are dumb arses!

 

[pawsandclaws1]

What I really find depressing about this push for Flano as coach with WT is the way in which WT is perceived as an option of last resort. Why is there no push to see him at another club?

I've been pushing for John Morris, for a number of reasons. Firstly, he achieved good results with the Sharks at a difficult period in that club's history (there have been a few). I refer specifically to the loss of Gallen. Morris also was integral in the Sharks' highly successful pathways initiative. Morris is also an educated man which I believe is important insofar as communication with players and people management is concerned. Finally, I view him as having been influenced by Tim Sheens. An ongoing relationship between the two is crucial for success at WTs.

He wasn't wanted by the Sharks though and a lot of that seems to be because of communication issues with the players.

Yet despite difficulties with overpaid and underperforming players he still took the club to two top 8 finishes.

That would be a position no doubt WTs management would enjoy being in!

The reality is we are stuck with the many excuses coming from the Maguire apologists.

The players named by Foxsporrs were Fifita, Dugan and Moylan.

https://www.foxsports.com.au/nrl/nrl-premiership/nrl-2020-sharks-player-unrest-andrew-fifita-matt-moylan-john-morris-wade-graham-cronulla-josh-dugan/news-story/00fc9737de8d69c37f533f9785518495

Who is a Maguire apologist?

I don't think paws can understand the difference between supporting Madge and not liking the list of potential replacements in August 2021. There is a middle ground for Madge or Brooks where certain fans (like me) are fine if they are sacked, but only if we have some idea who the replacement would be.

You still haven't answered my earlier question. Apparently that is splitting hairs, but keep going.

 

[Papacito]

I was always in two minds about Madge as our coach.

On one hand he had a great cv and results over several years. But on the other hand, he got the boot at Souths after some player discontent.

After watching the recent documentary, he's 100% the right guy for our club.

Great motivator, really strong vision, very supportive of the guys and I've seen more than a few little things that suggests he's very good at 'mind games' (I mean that in a positive way).

Compared to what I have saw behind the scenes from ivan Cleary, Madge is miles ahead.

So why can't we make the top 8?

I think it's simple, we don't have a roster that's mentally strong enough to play at top 8 quality footy for consistent enough periods. No other coach will change that.

It's important that we stick with Madge for a few more seasons, it does look like he's building a winning culture.

 

[jirskyr]

What I really find depressing about this push for Flano as coach with WT is the way in which WT is perceived as an option of last resort. Why is there no push to see him at another club?

I've been pushing for John Morris, for a number of reasons. Firstly, he achieved good results with the Sharks at a difficult period in that club's history (there have been a few). I refer specifically to the loss of Gallen. Morris also was integral in the Sharks' highly successful pathways initiative. Morris is also an educated man which I believe is important insofar as communication with players and people management is concerned. Finally, I view him as having been influenced by Tim Sheens. An ongoing relationship between the two is crucial for success at WTs.

He wasn't wanted by the Sharks though and a lot of that seems to be because of communication issues with the players.

Yet despite difficulties with overpaid and underperforming players he still took the club to two top 8 finishes.

That would be a position no doubt WTs management would enjoy being in!

The reality is we are stuck with the many excuses coming from the Maguire apologists.

The players named by Foxsporrs were Fifita, Dugan and Moylan.

https://www.foxsports.com.au/nrl/nrl-premiership/nrl-2020-sharks-player-unrest-andrew-fifita-matt-moylan-john-morris-wade-graham-cronulla-josh-dugan/news-story/00fc9737de8d69c37f533f9785518495

Who is a Maguire apologist?

I don't think paws can understand the difference between supporting Madge and not liking the list of potential replacements in August 2021. There is a middle ground for Madge or Brooks where certain fans (like me) are fine if they are sacked, but only if we have some idea who the replacement would be.

You still haven't answered my earlier question. Apparently that is splitting hairs, but keep going.

I did answer your question, scroll back up a few comments.

 

[earl]

Yesterday the Tigers looked lost in attack and shakey in defense but what’s new?

Madge is done.

Right now I would take Flanagan as coach only because when he coached Cronulla he had them defend very well. I don’t care about peptides, that’s history. I want a coach that can get the team to defend.

Some will say that he had a team of old heads, players that had loads of experience. Well he put them there over a number of years, he built that team. No-one can argue that they weren’t a good defensive unit.

I want a coach who can get a team to defend well. That’s all, is that too hard?

From your keyboard , but every word could have been from my own… Flanagan coaches strong, committed football teams that can get down and dirty and win however it needs to be done… players perform for him, he knows how to build a “team” out of players that compliment each other and his teams play what’s in front of them..the Cronulla grand final team took down Melbourne in their prime, even set a record for consecutive wins and they were good to watch. Tough and entertaining, but most importantly they used to fight to win, they were competitors, and in my estimation they were representative of the coaches own personality… Flanagan is smart and his a hard head, we need that at this club, he bought an identity to that Cronulla club and we need that desperately at the West’s tigers… he would be perfect, the right man at the exact right time….. cmon Justin “guns” Pascoe, bring Shane to Tiger Town!

He hasn't achieved anything without cheating.

You may see it that way. Many other people do not….

Im with cochise.....we have morals...

Yet look at the players Madge has brought to the club or tried to attract, hardly clean skins how does that sit with your morals?

Pretty good because none of them tried to inject illegal substances into players to gain an unfair advantage...

I suppose your morals a far different to mine...Im old school ....better your self fairly and treat competition they way you want to be treated yourself...

sorry if this doesnt suit your moral compass....

I don’t support anyone using illegal substances but he served his punishment which is no different to the players here that have also paid their dues so it is fair game.

Tell me then, you forgive Melbourne Storm for rorting the cap during those premiership seasons? Tim Simona is forgiven too?

Personally I think it's one thing to have off-field indiscretions that you can legitimately do your time for. Rusty Packer went to jail, so did Manu Ma'u... that's how society deals with and attempts to reform criminal acts.

But in-game cheats, for me, that's something entirely different. Drug cheats too. How can you take anyone seriously for the rest of their career if they are a proven drug cheat? How can you assure yourself they won't do that again, won't cheat, aren't using performance enhancers ever again? Tainted for life I'm afraid.

Fair point,however I am not Jesus, I don’t need to forgive anyone, I have never said I condone any illegal activity, nor do I need to burden myself with anything I can’t control, all I am saying is it is hypocritical to crucify Flannogan but support someone with a past like Roberts.

No its not hypocritical, Roberts has his own demons he is dealing with, issues he is very open and honest about. His actions largely effect him. Flanagan on the other hand was involved in a systematic program of doping players in his care with substances that the players were unaware of the contents. His actions primarily effected the players he was supposed to guide and assist and trusted him to do the right thing by them. It is a completely different situations.

I'll make this clear, I support Roberts and think that Flanagan is a low life of the highest order. In my opinion he should have faced criminal charges and should be banned from any involvement in the game for life. I wouldn't even allow him to commentate.


Completely agree with this,Flanagan is the coach i would never want involved in any capacity at my club.Even the bag of manure JT would be preferable and he is the worst coach i have seen coaching the Tigers in over 50 years.

Flano applied for the CC job and lost out to snoops, so why would the club hire him for the top job?

He is far too capable for Madge to sign as an assistant. Madge was burned by Siebold, he's only hiring assistants that are so bad they can't even be considered for the top job.

I used to code. My mate who taught me was a terrible coder. I remember with about 1 month experience asking him why is was such a mess. His response was no one else can come in and fix it. It's a job for life.

 

[earl]

I do find it interesting that Ben Elias and Blocker will be quoted as reasonable operators in this thread, but lashed for being morons in other threads.

I couldn't care less what these guys say. You may as well listen to any moron talking crap while drinking a beer in a pub.

 

[supercoach]

I'd go for Shane Flanagan. Players seem to like him. What we have ain't working.

No thank you

I agree....big no for flanagan

1. Sack Maguire

For who?

Separate issues. Maguire's sacking is not dependent upon a replacement.

As is often said, "better the devil you know".

To sack Maguire without a continuity plan, without some confidence of a replacement - that's mismanagement. One of your least sensible suggestions.

Multi national companies and Federal/State Department change CEOs and Directors routinely. Changing a football coach cannot be too difficult

And you conveniently forget we have Sheens and Hartigan to provide continuity.

You show me a big company that changes the CEO, except for unlawful activity, without having the replacement already lined up. Business suicide and your stocks will tank.

Removing a football coach isn't difficult - just tell him not to come back. Replacing a football coach is very difficult.

I didn't conveniently forget anything. You want a 70 year old ex-coach who hasn't been in the country for several years to caretake for an unspecified time until we replace the head coach? And a football general manager to help him.

I'm sorry it's a dumb suggestion to remove a coach without a proper replacement. By all means, go sign up Ciraldo or someone else (no drug or suspension cheats thanks) and let Madge finish the season, or install a caretaker if Madge quits a la John Morris, but don't just hook him with no proper replacement lined up.

Where did I write I expected Sheens to be coach or a caretaker?

Appointing a younger coach like Morris with Sheens to provide guidance is a reasonable outcome. It cannot be any worse than the banquet of bullshit that is being produced currently.

I did also mention appointing a caretaker coach whilst a robust recruitment process identifies a replacement. That can occur this year whilst a caretaker coach restores confidence in the playing group.

Mate how can Tim Sheens provide continuity for Madge being sacked? The bloke isn't even in the country. This season has 5 rounds to go, there's no point doing anything with season 2021, the new bloke wouldn't even get his feet wet.

If you were going to do it, you'd advise Madge that he's not being retained, let him see out the year, get the new guy now and have the new guy prep for the off-season. That's the smart way to do the transition.

And I'll say again - "not being worse" than the current predicament is a very bad benchmark to be setting. I want the new coach to be very strong odds of putting in a much better performance than 2019-2021, not another limp into 9th or 10th place. Madge has proven he can get us to 9th.

You didn't answer my question. Where did I write that I expected Sheens to be coach or caretaker?

Sheens has started work now according to the post on this forum yesterday. Seems like continuity has commenced. Imagine that!

Bring in the caretaker, or bring in a permanent replacement after the process. John Morris has always been my choice. Get rid of Maguire.

You are splitting hairs, so let's split hairs then - I didn't say you explicity said Sheens would be the coach. "Caretake" doesn't mean Sheens himself has to step into the role, it also means he supports or oversees someone else in the role.

The actual point of discussion is whether we cut Madge without a replacement lined up, which you are in favour of, and I am not. If John Morris is the long-term solution, so be it, get him in right now to start pre-season for 2022. I don't want caretakers 5 weeks out from the end of the season.

But I also point out there's very little Tim Sheens can do about supporting a new coach on a Zoom from the UK. Bloke needs to be in-country for that to be a workable solution.



The Morris boat has sailed another club has signed him on as an assistant not all clubs are dumb arses!

He would have a get out clause in his contract if offered a head coach role…they all do

 

[Lauren]

I think if we looked hard enough we would find a few leaders in the 17.

That's counter-intuitive though isn't it?

If there are leaders in the squad they would've demonstrated it by now without having to go searching for them.

Have only really seen hints of it from AD and Luciano.

I remain completely baffled by the appointment of Tamou as captain, regardless of the minutes he plays (all 27 of them).

It’s more counter intuitive to create the expectation in the minds of the players that there are no leaders.

At this stage with the exception of AD there is no-one who exhibits leadership in the team. Tamou has been an absolute bust of a signing.

That’s the question isn’t it..how does Madge create 17 leaders from the team he has?
He could start by listing the qualities of a leader and rewarding those players who display them. Contrary to popular opinion, leaders aren’t born, they are a product of desire and circumstance.

There's a reason why a couple of players have emerged as genuine leaders and IMO it's also why they're our most consistent or better players.
Doueihi and Luciano - like Laurie and Stefano - have come to the club from the more successful or competitive environments, in which they've had to fight for a spot/position in those teams.
They are more extrinsically motivated and there more more attuned to focus on performance outcomes.

Their commitment and determination levels are probably the polar opposite to anyone from our systems no offence. They've always had to increase their effort and standards just to get that experience of playing first grade footy.
It's why I agree with others that if we miss out on marquee signings, we should target players in a similar situation as to what the players I've listed were in.

 

[cqtiger]

I was always in two minds about Madge as our coach.

On one hand he had a great cv and results over several years. But on the other hand, he got the boot at Souths after some player discontent.

After watching the recent documentary, he's 100% the right guy for our club.

Great motivator, really strong vision, very supportive of the guys and I've seen more than a few little things that suggests he's very good at 'mind games' (I mean that in a positive way).

Compared to what I have saw behind the scenes from ivan Cleary, Madge is miles ahead.

So why can't we make the top 8?

I think it's simple, we don't have a roster that's mentally strong enough to play at top 8 quality footy for consistent enough periods. No other coach will change that.

It's important that we stick with Madge for a few more seasons, it does look like he's building a winning culture.

What is your reasoning to say he’s building a winning culture?

 

[twentyforty]

I think if we looked hard enough we would find a few leaders in the 17.

That's counter-intuitive though isn't it?

If there are leaders in the squad they would've demonstrated it by now without having to go searching for them.

Have only really seen hints of it from AD and Luciano.

I remain completely baffled by the appointment of Tamou as captain, regardless of the minutes he plays (all 27 of them).

It’s more counter intuitive to create the expectation in the minds of the players that there are no leaders.

At this stage with the exception of AD there is no-one who exhibits leadership in the team. Tamou has been an absolute bust of a signing.

That’s the question isn’t it..how does Madge create 17 leaders from the team he has?
He could start by listing the qualities of a leader and rewarding those players who display them. Contrary to popular opinion, leaders aren’t born, they are a product of desire and circumstance.

There's a reason why a couple of players have emerged as genuine leaders and IMO it's also why they're our most consistent or better players.
Doueihi and Luciano - like Laurie and Stefano - have come to the club from the more successful or competitive environments, in which they've had to fight for their spot/position in those teams.

Their commitment and determination levels are probably the polar opposite to anyone from our systems no offence. They've always had to increase their effort and standards just to get that experience of playing first grade footy.
It's why I agree with others that if we miss out on marquee signings, we should target players in a similar situation as to what the players I've listed were in.

Absolutely, couldn’t agree more. In a poorly managed club which continually has more losses than wins, finding it hard to attract players, the average player gets a rank and file leg up from reserves and you would think they’ve just climbed Everest. It’s no longer enough to recognise talent alone, we need to look for that hunger which can’t be satisfied by small successes along the way. We know the recruitment team is on track when you look at the players you mention and the situation they came from. There’s a heap of opportunity at WT which will gradually close as each season passes. If I’m a player warming a bench at another club, the best thing I can do is back myself and grab a short term contract at WT.