Madge Maguire - Mega Thread

[Lauren]

I think if we looked hard enough we would find a few leaders in the 17.

That's counter-intuitive though isn't it?

If there are leaders in the squad they would've demonstrated it by now without having to go searching for them.

Have only really seen hints of it from AD and Luciano.

I remain completely baffled by the appointment of Tamou as captain, regardless of the minutes he plays (all 27 of them).

It’s more counter intuitive to create the expectation in the minds of the players that there are no leaders.

At this stage with the exception of AD there is no-one who exhibits leadership in the team. Tamou has been an absolute bust of a signing.

That’s the question isn’t it..how does Madge create 17 leaders from the team he has?
He could start by listing the qualities of a leader and rewarding those players who display them. Contrary to popular opinion, leaders aren’t born, they are a product of desire and circumstance.

There's a reason why a couple of players have emerged as genuine leaders and IMO it's also why they're our most consistent or better players.
Doueihi and Luciano - like Laurie and Stefano - have come to the club from the more successful or competitive environments, in which they've had to fight for their spot/position in those teams.

Their commitment and determination levels are probably the polar opposite to anyone from our systems no offence. They've always had to increase their effort and standards just to get that experience of playing first grade footy.
It's why I agree with others that if we miss out on marquee signings, we should target players in a similar situation as to what the players I've listed were in.


Absolutely, couldn’t agree more. In a poorly managed club which continually has more losses than wins, finding it hard to attract players, the average player gets a rank and file leg up from reserves and you would think they’ve just climbed Everest. It’s no longer enough to recognise talent alone, we need to look for that hunger which can’t be satisfied by small successes along the way. We know the recruitment team is on track when you look at the players you mention and the situation they came from. There’s a heap of opportunity at WT which will gradually close as each season passes. If I’m a player warming a bench at another club, the best thing I can do is back myself and grab a short term contract at WT.

Can see what Ivan was trying to instil in the team - with the whole Nofo and Thompson competing for a wing spot, during the start of his tenure - and it actually helped encourage them to own their own roles or responsibilities, if you ask me.
Players were willing to step up.

I didn't want Finucane for what he was demanding but he would've been an absolute asset to driving higher standards and if we can land (recruit) someone similar, I feel it will be a good start.

 

[twentyforty]

I think if we looked hard enough we would find a few leaders in the 17.

That's counter-intuitive though isn't it?

If there are leaders in the squad they would've demonstrated it by now without having to go searching for them.

Have only really seen hints of it from AD and Luciano.

I remain completely baffled by the appointment of Tamou as captain, regardless of the minutes he plays (all 27 of them).

It’s more counter intuitive to create the expectation in the minds of the players that there are no leaders.

At this stage with the exception of AD there is no-one who exhibits leadership in the team. Tamou has been an absolute bust of a signing.

That’s the question isn’t it..how does Madge create 17 leaders from the team he has?
He could start by listing the qualities of a leader and rewarding those players who display them. Contrary to popular opinion, leaders aren’t born, they are a product of desire and circumstance.

There's a reason why a couple of players have emerged as genuine leaders and IMO it's also why they're our most consistent or better players.
Doueihi and Luciano - like Laurie and Stefano - have come to the club from the more successful or competitive environments, in which they've had to fight for their spot/position in those teams.

Their commitment and determination levels are probably the polar opposite to anyone from our systems no offence. They've always had to increase their effort and standards just to get that experience of playing first grade footy.
It's why I agree with others that if we miss out on marquee signings, we should target players in a similar situation as to what the players I've listed were in.


Absolutely, couldn’t agree more. In a poorly managed club which continually has more losses than wins, finding it hard to attract players, the average player gets a rank and file leg up from reserves and you would think they’ve just climbed Everest. It’s no longer enough to recognise talent alone, we need to look for that hunger which can’t be satisfied by small successes along the way. We know the recruitment team is on track when you look at the players you mention and the situation they came from. There’s a heap of opportunity at WT which will gradually close as each season passes. If I’m a player warming a bench at another club, the best thing I can do is back myself and grab a short term contract at WT.

I didn’t want Finucane either and I was on the fence with Pangai but preferred him, Mitchell was the disappointing miss for me. I’ve seen the club buy senior players because of an intangible “leadership value”, which doesn’t appear to materialise, because at a late stage in their career a player has achieved personal goals. The hunger is not so strong, regardless of what the media would have us believe, and being a big fish in a small pond appeals. Pangai is young enough to have some upside, but Finucane will need to rely on his reputation. The chooks do very well because of their tremendous depth which has players competing for their position. Fear is a good motivator, but you need to have something to lose, the older player with a superannuation boosting contract taking him to age 35 has nothing at risk.

 

[Papacito]

I was always in two minds about Madge as our coach.

On one hand he had a great cv and results over several years. But on the other hand, he got the boot at Souths after some player discontent.

After watching the recent documentary, he's 100% the right guy for our club.

Great motivator, really strong vision, very supportive of the guys and I've seen more than a few little things that suggests he's very good at 'mind games' (I mean that in a positive way).

Compared to what I have saw behind the scenes from ivan Cleary, Madge is miles ahead.

So why can't we make the top 8?

I think it's simple, we don't have a roster that's mentally strong enough to play at top 8 quality footy for consistent enough periods. No other coach will change that.

It's important that we stick with Madge for a few more seasons, it does look like he's building a winning culture.

What is your reasoning to say he’s building a winning culture?

Based on the common characteristics of workplace cultures. Things like: shared vision, clearly understood expectations and standards, common stories, experiences and myths.

So far I've seen him working towards all of those in some really smart ways.

"Wests Tigers are always in a game" isn't just a cheesy pep talk - it's something that the blokes out on the field will start holding others to account to over time. Same goes for anyone new coming into the club.

When you dump a coach, you need to start this process all over, usually with a new bunch of staff and players. As we've seen too often over the past 10 years.

 

[cochise]

I was always in two minds about Madge as our coach.

On one hand he had a great cv and results over several years. But on the other hand, he got the boot at Souths after some player discontent.

After watching the recent documentary, he's 100% the right guy for our club.

Great motivator, really strong vision, very supportive of the guys and I've seen more than a few little things that suggests he's very good at 'mind games' (I mean that in a positive way).

Compared to what I have saw behind the scenes from ivan Cleary, Madge is miles ahead.

So why can't we make the top 8?

I think it's simple, we don't have a roster that's mentally strong enough to play at top 8 quality footy for consistent enough periods. No other coach will change that.

It's important that we stick with Madge for a few more seasons, it does look like he's building a winning culture.

What is your reasoning to say he’s building a winning culture?

Based on the common characteristics of workplace cultures. Things like: shared vision, clearly understood expectations and standards, common stories, experiences and myths.

So far I've seen him working towards all of those in some really smart ways.

"Wests Tigers are always in a game" isn't just a cheesy pep talk - it's something that the blokes out on the field will start holding others to account to over time. Same goes for anyone new coming into the club.

When you dump a coach, you need to start this process all over, usually with a new bunch of staff and players. As we've seen too often over the past 10 years.

One thing we haven't seen in the doco is him building that shared vision and expectations, I have seen him speak to the fact the expectations and vision was created with the players but at no point has any of the players been addressing the group about this, I have seen him mention specific players belief and expectations but for some reason he is speaking to that and not the player he is speaking about. So many times I've heard him say things like "Moey said" etc, why is Moey driving that conversation then? or "these are your expectations", but not one player has spoken to those expectations

It could be that we just aren't seeing this in the doco but that ownership of vision and expectations is crucially important in a team situation and I want to see that.

 

[Tim Sheens]

The players aren’t talking before games because they are over the Madge crap. Seriously how many times does he say eyes up?? They don’t even want to look at him. I have it on good authority that the player the old alcho was referring to as disgruntled with the club is Luciano, he like most of the new gen players are way not into the yelling crap. They’re looking for a caress not a slap!
I get there’s not much options but Madge is just going to get us in a worse situation.
Why do u think they went after sheens, the club knows he is struggling big time and they’re praying that the sheens can save them.

It wasn't Luch

Spit it out son, don't leave it festering.

 

[twentyforty]

I was always in two minds about Madge as our coach.

On one hand he had a great cv and results over several years. But on the other hand, he got the boot at Souths after some player discontent.

After watching the recent documentary, he's 100% the right guy for our club.

Great motivator, really strong vision, very supportive of the guys and I've seen more than a few little things that suggests he's very good at 'mind games' (I mean that in a positive way).

Compared to what I have saw behind the scenes from ivan Cleary, Madge is miles ahead.

So why can't we make the top 8?

I think it's simple, we don't have a roster that's mentally strong enough to play at top 8 quality footy for consistent enough periods. No other coach will change that.

It's important that we stick with Madge for a few more seasons, it does look like he's building a winning culture.

What is your reasoning to say he’s building a winning culture?

Based on the common characteristics of workplace cultures. Things like: shared vision, clearly understood expectations and standards, common stories, experiences and myths.

So far I've seen him working towards all of those in some really smart ways.

"Wests Tigers are always in a game" isn't just a cheesy pep talk - it's something that the blokes out on the field will start holding others to account to over time. Same goes for anyone new coming into the club.

When you dump a coach, you need to start this process all over, usually with a new bunch of staff and players. As we've seen too often over the past 10 years.

One thing we haven't seen in the doco is him building that shared vision and expectations, I have seen him speak to the fact the expectations and vision was created with the players but at no point has any of the players been addressing the group about this, I have seen him mention specific players belief and expectations but for some reason he is speaking to that and not the player he is speaking about. So many times I've heard him say things like "Moey said" etc, why is Moey driving that conversation then? or "these are your expectations", but not one player has spoken to those expectations

It could be that we just aren't seeing this in the doco but that ownership of vision and expectations is crucially important in a team situation and I want to see that.

It would certainly answer a lot of questions if we could see more interaction between players, but I doubt we will? I recently put together a similar mini doco and it appears to be the current style to have one dominant voice, with minimal interaction between the cast. I’m not sure why though?

 

[Lauren]

I was always in two minds about Madge as our coach.

On one hand he had a great cv and results over several years. But on the other hand, he got the boot at Souths after some player discontent.

After watching the recent documentary, he's 100% the right guy for our club.

Great motivator, really strong vision, very supportive of the guys and I've seen more than a few little things that suggests he's very good at 'mind games' (I mean that in a positive way).

Compared to what I have saw behind the scenes from ivan Cleary, Madge is miles ahead.

So why can't we make the top 8?

I think it's simple, we don't have a roster that's mentally strong enough to play at top 8 quality footy for consistent enough periods. No other coach will change that.

It's important that we stick with Madge for a few more seasons, it does look like he's building a winning culture.

What is your reasoning to say he’s building a winning culture?

Based on the common characteristics of workplace cultures. Things like: shared vision, clearly understood expectations and standards, common stories, experiences and myths.

So far I've seen him working towards all of those in some really smart ways.

"Wests Tigers are always in a game" isn't just a cheesy pep talk - it's something that the blokes out on the field will start holding others to account to over time. Same goes for anyone new coming into the club.

When you dump a coach, you need to start this process all over, usually with a new bunch of staff and players. As we've seen too often over the past 10 years.

One thing we haven't seen in the doco is him building that shared vision and expectations, I have seen him speak to the fact the expectations and vision was created with the players but at no point has any of the players been addressing the group about this, I have seen him mention specific players belief and expectations but for some reason he is speaking to that and not the player he is speaking about. So many times I've heard him say things like "Moey said" etc, why is Moey driving that conversation then? or "these are your expectations", but not one player has spoken to those expectations

It could be that we just aren't seeing this in the doco but that ownership of vision and expectations is crucially important in a team situation and I want to see that.

Hope this makes sense, but the thing which is highlighted to me is that Madge's coaching responsibilities look as difficult as teaching advanced mathematics in a whole-class scenario. However, the reception from the techniques and methods he applies appear like the students (the players) are trying to learn French minus the right resources.
Like it would be a nightmare situation and there's no signs of modifications being made that are best suited for each individual and the class (team) but we also lack the right materials (leadership).

 

[TYGA]

What sticks out clearly is a lack of our club looking at character of players in recruitment. This is the most subdued team for a coach that is fire and brimstone.

The club needs to bring in some hard heads that don’t take a backward step. Our lack of line speed and aggression makes sense to me now. These players look like gold blokes we need some real aggressive players that want to hurt people.

 

[pawsandclaws1]

What sticks out clearly is a lack of our club looking at character of players in recruitment. This is the most subdued team for a coach that is fire and brimstone.

The club needs to bring in some hard heads that don’t take a backward step. Our lack of line speed and aggression makes sense to me now. These players look like gold blokes we need some real aggressive players that want to hurt people.

Perhaps there is a smarter way than fire and brimstone.

 

[BAGNF05]

What sticks out clearly is a lack of our club looking at character of players in recruitment. This is the most subdued team for a coach that is fire and brimstone.

The club needs to bring in some hard heads that don’t take a backward step. Our lack of line speed and aggression makes sense to me now. These players look like gold blokes we need some real aggressive players that want to hurt people.

To me it feels like when you get put in a group activity with a whole bunch of people you just met. Everyone is super nice and just says all the right things. We need a couple of those people (senior players) who love confrontation and will tell it warts and all.

 

[aturkey]

Michael Mcguire will not coach this side to a top 8 finish next year. So do we think he'll have them ready in 2023? I have yet to see anything to like about his coaching and it's been 3 years. So we're really talking about giving a coach 5 years to just crack the eight. Dire.

If his coaching resume is as impressive as everyone seems to think it is, why will he need 5 seasons to simply make the eight? (And I'm being generous, there is nothing to suggest we can make the 8 in 2023) Lol

 

[TYGA]

What sticks out clearly is a lack of our club looking at character of players in recruitment. This is the most subdued team for a coach that is fire and brimstone.

The club needs to bring in some hard heads that don’t take a backward step. Our lack of line speed and aggression makes sense to me now. These players look like gold blokes we need some real aggressive players that want to hurt people.

Perhaps there is a smarter way than fire and brimstone.

Perhaps however do you think the coach would blast them if they were playing at full intensity. The Tommy match was a disgrace.

 

[twentyforty]

What sticks out clearly is a lack of our club looking at character of players in recruitment. This is the most subdued team for a coach that is fire and brimstone.

The club needs to bring in some hard heads that don’t take a backward step. Our lack of line speed and aggression makes sense to me now. These players look like gold blokes we need some real aggressive players that want to hurt people.

Perhaps there is a smarter way than fire and brimstone.

Perhaps however do you think the coach would blast them if they were playing at full intensity. The Tommy match was a disgrace.

Are you suggesting the players are winding up the coach?

 

[OzLuke]

What sticks out clearly is a lack of our club looking at character of players in recruitment. This is the most subdued team for a coach that is fire and brimstone.

The club needs to bring in some hard heads that don’t take a backward step. Our lack of line speed and aggression makes sense to me now. These players look like gold blokes we need some real aggressive players that want to hurt people.

Perhaps there is a smarter way than fire and brimstone.

Perhaps however do you think the coach would blast them if they were playing at full intensity. The Tommy match was a disgrace.


Are you suggesting the players are winding up the coach?

I wouldn't think they're that smart. That sort of stuff gets around and would be a factor with them re-signing to play elsewhere, or with another coach coming in.

 

[TYGA]

What sticks out clearly is a lack of our club looking at character of players in recruitment. This is the most subdued team for a coach that is fire and brimstone.

The club needs to bring in some hard heads that don’t take a backward step. Our lack of line speed and aggression makes sense to me now. These players look like gold blokes we need some real aggressive players that want to hurt people.

Perhaps there is a smarter way than fire and brimstone.

Perhaps however do you think the coach would blast them if they were playing at full intensity. The Tommy match was a disgrace.


Are you suggesting the players are winding up the coach?

I think we have the wrong group of senior players.

 

[Krammy]

I was always in two minds about Madge as our coach.

On one hand he had a great cv and results over several years. But on the other hand, he got the boot at Souths after some player discontent.

After watching the recent documentary, he's 100% the right guy for our club.

Great motivator, really strong vision, very supportive of the guys and I've seen more than a few little things that suggests he's very good at 'mind games' (I mean that in a positive way).

Compared to what I have saw behind the scenes from ivan Cleary, Madge is miles ahead.

So why can't we make the top 8?

I think it's simple, we don't have a roster that's mentally strong enough to play at top 8 quality footy for consistent enough periods. No other coach will change that.

It's important that we stick with Madge for a few more seasons, it does look like he's building a winning culture.

Winning culture?? Our results don't reflect this. The dressing room atmosphere suggests anything but a winning culture. A coach screaming at players who aren't listening is not indicative of a coach building a winning culture.

 

[TYGA]

I’d give Madge another 5 years for clearing out Mbye, Reynolds, Packer, Matulino, McQueen and bringing in some talented players in Laurie, Utoikamanu, Blore, Luciano, Simpkins, Tuilagi, Maumalo, Douihei.

I know we are out of contention but the best sides are way better than they were when Cleary was here the gap is huge. We have improved big time in comparison as a club.

The improvement is not enough but with cap space we should be able to bridge the gap each year. Hopefully at the end we have a consistently competitive side.

 

[Harvey]

I’d give Madge another 5 years for clearing out Mbye, Reynolds, Packer, Matulino, McQueen and bringing in some talented players in Laurie, Utoikamanu, Blore, Luciano, Simpkins, Tuilagi, Maumalo, Douihei.

I know we are out of contention but the best sides are way better than they were when Cleary was here the gap is huge. We have improved big time in comparison as a club.

The improvement is not enough but with cap space we should be able to bridge the gap each year. Hopefully at the end we have a consistently competitive side.

Does he lose years for Tamou, BJ and JTJ?

 

[Demps]

George Burgess had nothing but nice things to say about Madge on Matty John's Late Show tonight.

 

[TYGA]

I’d give Madge another 5 years for clearing out Mbye, Reynolds, Packer, Matulino, McQueen and bringing in some talented players in Laurie, Utoikamanu, Blore, Luciano, Simpkins, Tuilagi, Maumalo, Douihei.

I know we are out of contention but the best sides are way better than they were when Cleary was here the gap is huge. We have improved big time in comparison as a club.

The improvement is not enough but with cap space we should be able to bridge the gap each year. Hopefully at the end we have a consistently competitive side.

Does he lose years for Tamou, BJ and JTJ?

Yes 3 years.