Madge Maguire - Mega Thread

[yeahcaz]

n the past 20 years every coach other than Matt Elliot and Nathan Brown has made the finals by their 3rd year.

Brad Arthur took 4 seasons to get Eels to the finals.

I know that. Ok a stats a stat but i ruled out 2016 for Parramatta due to the cap fine. They won enough games to make the 8 before they were deducted 12 points from the season total.
But if you want to include Brad Arthur making the finals in 2017 was even more impressive given the amount of turn over of the eels squad from 2016-2017.

Actually in including Brad you’ve highlighted not just one case but two cases where coaches have made the finals in their fourth year.
Also both made the top 4.

Fingers crossed for Madge but if we are being conservative anything less than 8th spot is a failure if he is retained for next year.

If you think that should be the minimum, you’re as delusional as the board or anyone who thinks we are close to the top 8. Finishing outside the bottom 4 will be a success for this squad next season.

 

[balmain boy]

n the past 20 years every coach other than Matt Elliot and Nathan Brown has made the finals by their 3rd year.

Brad Arthur took 4 seasons to get Eels to the finals.

I know that. Ok a stats a stat but i ruled out 2016 for Parramatta due to the cap fine. They won enough games to make the 8 before they were deducted 12 points from the season total.
But if you want to include Brad Arthur making the finals in 2017 was even more impressive given the amount of turn over of the eels squad from 2016-2017.

Actually in including Brad you’ve highlighted not just one case but two cases where coaches have made the finals in their fourth year.
Also both made the top 4.

Fingers crossed for Madge but if we are being conservative anything less than 8th spot is a failure if he is retained for next year.

If you think that should be the minimum, you’re as delusional as the board or anyone who thinks we are close to the top 8. Finishing outside the bottom 4 will be a success for this squad next season.

No. If Madge stays next season and we don't make the finals he'll be sacked, and rightfully so. We've been close to making the finals every year, we just keep folding when it matters. With Packer and co off the wage bill he's all out of excuses. He said he could do the job in one season, if he doesn't do it in four then he's definitely on the street.

 

[Needaname]

n the past 20 years every coach other than Matt Elliot and Nathan Brown has made the finals by their 3rd year.

Brad Arthur took 4 seasons to get Eels to the finals.

I know that. Ok a stats a stat but i ruled out 2016 for Parramatta due to the cap fine. They won enough games to make the 8 before they were deducted 12 points from the season total.
But if you want to include Brad Arthur making the finals in 2017 was even more impressive given the amount of turn over of the eels squad from 2016-2017.

Actually in including Brad you’ve highlighted not just one case but two cases where coaches have made the finals in their fourth year.
Also both made the top 4.

Fingers crossed for Madge but if we are being conservative anything less than 8th spot is a failure if he is retained for next year.

If you think that should be the minimum, you’re as delusional as the board or anyone who thinks we are close to the top 8. Finishing outside the bottom 4 will be a success for this squad next season.

I get that. I’m just saying the past accounts don’t bode well for Madge.

 

[jirskyr]

The main reason Madge got the job in the first place was because he said he could take our current (2019) squad to the finals, and he wouldn’t require a rebuild. We liked what he was saying so gave Bennett an ultimatum to make sure we didn’t lose both.

Who is the potential candidate who says they could not work with the current squad, at any football club in history? Unless you are hiring Craig Bellamy or Trent Robinson, a new coach does not get to dictate a rebuild.

Um, several other prospects said a rebuild would be required and that that would be their priority upon taking the job. To turnaround the squad as quickly as possible. Madge said that wasn't necessary and he could work with our squad and current contacts and get the team to play finals.

Playing finals in the first season isn't a statement all coaches make in the interview process, and with good reason.

Which other prospects said this? You were present during the interviews?

So you go into a head coach interview and you tell the prospective club - this needs to be a rebuild (another, just after Ivan Cleary started one), and we probably can't make the finals the first season. But please hire me.

Regardless of what is promised or not, making the finals is a minimum benchmark for a new coach, and regardless of whether or not they say it can be done within 12 months or 36 months, they are judged on the actual outcome (if they can actually get themselves into the job in the first place).

Another of jirskyr's many super literal tweets. I presume you never talk about anything to which you didn't witness first hand? Get in the real world. You must be real fun at parties.

I tend to qualify anything that comes from another party. For example "I was told..." or "the papers are saying". Because the problem is you are developing a position, and you are bringing in arguments to support that position.

Your latest argument was
Um, several other prospects said a rebuild would be required and that that would be their priority upon taking the job

I have never heard such a thing. Who were the other prospects? I asked if you were present, tongue-in-cheek - obviously you weren't there, but it's your opportunity to explain where your information came from. To provide support for your argument.

But you didn't explain it, you got wise with me. This tells me you can't support anything you said in your last post, about what Madge said or about what other candidates said.

 

[jirskyr]

Actually in including Brad you’ve highlighted not just one case but two cases where coaches have made the finals in their fourth year.
Also both made the top 4.
Fingers crossed for Madge but if we are being conservative anything less than 8th spot is a failure if he is retained for next year.

Yes, that's exactly my argument. There are a number of coaches who failed quite badly their first few seasons, then did turn the club's fortunes around.

And there are other cases like Tim Sheens, who jagged the finals appearance / premiership reasonably early (inside 3 seasons) and then couldn't sustain it.

A sort of irony is: if you measure success in 3-year cohorts, like we are considering with Madge, then Tim Sheens passes the test and Brad Arthur fails, even though Arthur now has more sustained finals success than Sheens ever did at Tigers.

I agree if Madge doesn't make the finals next year, or go close to it (a big improvement in the team output) then I don't think he sees out the 5th year. In fact I expect, privately, they'll set some kind of expectation that 2022 is a very results-driven year, with less allowance made for historical / club-based issues that Madge inherited.

 

[happy_tiger]

Look in my opinion one of themain reasons at the time for the doco was to try and garner support for Madge as the club realized we didn't have the cattle to make the 8 and they understood the calls for his head would come quick and fast fom the fans

And I still support Madge , I can't see another coach out their that is clearly better than him

But he has lost the playing roster ...and unless they plan on dumping 18 members of the current roster ( which I say Hell Yeah to ) he can't continue on

 

[mike]

Look in my opinion one of themain reasons at the time for the doco was to try and garner support for Madge as the club realized we didn't have the cattle to make the 8 and they understood the calls for his head would come quick and fast fom the fans

And I still support Madge , I can't see another coach out their that is clearly better than him

**But he has lost the playing roster** ...and unless they plan on dumping 18 members of the current roster ( which I say Hell Yeah to ) he can't continue on

Not according to some on here who say the review from the players were in favour of Madge staying.

 

[cochise]

Look in my opinion one of themain reasons at the time for the doco was to try and garner support for Madge as the club realized we didn't have the cattle to make the 8 and they understood the calls for his head would come quick and fast fom the fans

And I still support Madge , I can't see another coach out their that is clearly better than him

But he has lost the playing roster ...and unless they plan on dumping 18 members of the current roster ( which I say Hell Yeah to ) he can't continue on

That is pretty much where I am mate, he also placed himself in a position where he is in opposition to the players. As soon as he stated using the wording of them a couple of months ago and blaming the squad he was in a bad position. How do you come back from that when you have pretty much the same squad next season.

 

[weststigerman]

Look in my opinion one of themain reasons at the time for the doco was to try and garner support for Madge as the club realized we didn't have the cattle to make the 8 and they understood the calls for his head would come quick and fast fom the fans

And I still support Madge , I can't see another coach out their that is clearly better than him

But he has lost the playing roster ...and unless they plan on dumping 18 members of the current roster ( which I say Hell Yeah to ) he can't continue on

But Madge didn't want the doco to happen. It was Pascoe that pushed for it. Pascoe is quite happy getting involved in the football team and meet with potential recruits. At the same time, when things go pear shaped on the field and we can't attract players he steps back and says "football department is not my job".

Pascoe is the first that should go.

 

[Tiger-ferret]

Look in my opinion one of themain reasons at the time for the doco was to try and garner support for Madge as the club realized we didn't have the cattle to make the 8 and they understood the calls for his head would come quick and fast fom the fans

And I still support Madge , I can't see another coach out their that is clearly better than him

But he has lost the playing roster ...and unless they plan on dumping 18 members of the current roster ( which I say Hell Yeah to ) he can't continue on

I’m completely speculating but I think he’s lost a couple of the senior guys who should be standing up and leading. Not the players that matter for the future.

 

[balmain boy]

The main reason Madge got the job in the first place was because he said he could take our current (2019) squad to the finals, and he wouldn’t require a rebuild. We liked what he was saying so gave Bennett an ultimatum to make sure we didn’t lose both.

Who is the potential candidate who says they could not work with the current squad, at any football club in history? Unless you are hiring Craig Bellamy or Trent Robinson, a new coach does not get to dictate a rebuild.

Um, several other prospects said a rebuild would be required and that that would be their priority upon taking the job. To turnaround the squad as quickly as possible. Madge said that wasn't necessary and he could work with our squad and current contacts and get the team to play finals.

Playing finals in the first season isn't a statement all coaches make in the interview process, and with good reason.

Which other prospects said this? You were present during the interviews?

So you go into a head coach interview and you tell the prospective club - this needs to be a rebuild (another, just after Ivan Cleary started one), and we probably can't make the finals the first season. But please hire me.

Regardless of what is promised or not, making the finals is a minimum benchmark for a new coach, and regardless of whether or not they say it can be done within 12 months or 36 months, they are judged on the actual outcome (if they can actually get themselves into the job in the first place).

Another of jirskyr's many super literal tweets. I presume you never talk about anything to which you didn't witness first hand? Get in the real world. You must be real fun at parties.

I tend to qualify anything that comes from another party. For example "I was told..." or "the papers are saying". Because the problem is you are developing a position, and you are bringing in arguments to support that position.

Your latest argument was
Um, several other prospects said a rebuild would be required and that that would be their priority upon taking the job

I have never heard such a thing. Who were the other prospects? I asked if you were present, tongue-in-cheek - obviously you weren't there, but it's your opportunity to explain where your information came from. To provide support for your argument.

But you didn't explain it, you got wise with me. This tells me you can't support anything you said in your last post, about what Madge said or about what other candidates said.

Things are reported in the press and other things mentioned through the grapevine on social media. Can we verify these details? No. Can I verify any of the things reported in media - for the most part - no. Nearly all news is a leap of faith. We have no idea if the number of COVID cases is accurate or if they're fudging the stats. You have to use your judgment but in the absence of any other facts you often have to take the information available to you.

Did i mention that this was reported at that time in my previous post? No, but should i have to? No. Of course i wasn't there and i'm talking about second hand info as reported at the time.


But this is all besides the point. Madge said he could take our 2019 squad to the finals and he failed. That's it, nothing more to say.

 

[Tiger5150]

The main reason Madge got the job in the first place was because he said he could take our current (2019) squad to the finals, and he wouldn’t require a rebuild. We liked what he was saying so gave Bennett an ultimatum to make sure we didn’t lose both.

Who is the potential candidate who says they could not work with the current squad, at any football club in history? Unless you are hiring Craig Bellamy or Trent Robinson, a new coach does not get to dictate a rebuild.

Um, several other prospects said a rebuild would be required and that that would be their priority upon taking the job. To turnaround the squad as quickly as possible. Madge said that wasn't necessary and he could work with our squad and current contacts and get the team to play finals.

Playing finals in the first season isn't a statement all coaches make in the interview process, and with good reason.

Which other prospects said this? You were present during the interviews?

So you go into a head coach interview and you tell the prospective club - this needs to be a rebuild (another, just after Ivan Cleary started one), and we probably can't make the finals the first season. But please hire me.

Regardless of what is promised or not, making the finals is a minimum benchmark for a new coach, and regardless of whether or not they say it can be done within 12 months or 36 months, they are judged on the actual outcome (if they can actually get themselves into the job in the first place).

Another of jirskyr's many super literal tweets. I presume you never talk about anything to which you didn't witness first hand? Get in the real world. You must be real fun at parties.

I tend to qualify anything that comes from another party. For example "I was told..." or "the papers are saying". Because the problem is you are developing a position, and you are bringing in arguments to support that position.

Your latest argument was
Um, several other prospects said a rebuild would be required and that that would be their priority upon taking the job

I have never heard such a thing. Who were the other prospects? I asked if you were present, tongue-in-cheek - obviously you weren't there, but it's your opportunity to explain where your information came from. To provide support for your argument.

But you didn't explain it, you got wise with me. This tells me you can't support anything you said in your last post, about what Madge said or about what other candidates said.

Great point Jirskyr.

I see so many things stated as fact here that started as just some guys opinion. Something gets said enough times it is accepted as "fact" here and I find it very frustrating.

Examples:

- Player x was moved because he was "too dominant" for Brooks
- Every players salary
- Lee signed Nofo and was solely responsible


There are many more, we need a name for them so they can be calle dout for what they are.

 

[Tiger-ferret]

Look in my opinion one of themain reasons at the time for the doco was to try and garner support for Madge as the club realized we didn't have the cattle to make the 8 and they understood the calls for his head would come quick and fast fom the fans

And I still support Madge , I can't see another coach out their that is clearly better than him

But he has lost the playing roster ...and unless they plan on dumping 18 members of the current roster ( which I say Hell Yeah to ) he can't continue on

I’m completely speculating but I think he’s lost a couple of the senior guys who should be standing up and leading. Not the players that matter for the future.

And to add: one of those was given a lengthy contract extension Madge may not have agreed to in the first place…

 

[GCfan]

So it looks like to me Ciraldo doesn’t really want the job… can’t blame him really..

What’s the big deal with this guy anyway?
He’s assistant coach ….. saw nothing special when he was on short firsts team duties while back.
We do get worked up about nothing.

Madge has produced nothing in 3 years, actually taken the team backwards, and plenty want him here next year

I can not even fathom how the board could even contemplate keeping Maguire next season ,there was no need for a review in this matter the undeniable truth of failure is there for all to see over a proven 3 season period ending with a total capitulation of so called coach loving players and and there pride in the jersey .

I can fathom of a few reasons

1)We don’t have or want to pay $800k to pay Madge out.
2)All other potential targets weren’t available to replace him
3)Player majority (younger ones with potential including Steff) actually want Madge as coach.
4)Madge has compromising photos of the board members

Option 4

 

[tony soprano]

I'm guess would be madge not taking the proposed changes too well. It really has been a fall from grace since madge won the GF but he has to realise where he is at at the moment.

 

[jrtiger]

I'm guess would be madge not taking the proposed changes too well. It really has been a fall from grace since madge won the GF but he has to realise where he is at at the moment.

very bittersweet outcome for Madge really. keeps his job but loses his buddies in the assistant roles and gets Sheens working directly above him. if anything it looks to me like we are putting the structures in place for a rookie coach.

 

[yeahcaz]

Will today be the day we get some kinda verdict

 

[cochise]

Will today be the day we get some kinda verdict

I doubt it.

 

[weststigerman]

Will today be the day we get some kinda verdict

Depends when Pascoe tells Chammas.

 

[cktiger]

Look in my opinion one of themain reasons at the time for the doco was to try and garner support for Madge as the club realized we didn't have the cattle to make the 8 and they understood the calls for his head would come quick and fast fom the fans

And I still support Madge , I can't see another coach out their that is clearly better than him

But he has lost the playing roster ...and unless they plan on dumping 18 members of the current roster ( which I say Hell Yeah to ) he can't continue on

I’m completely speculating but I think he’s lost a couple of the senior guys who should be standing up and leading. Not the players that matter for the future.

If those senior guys aren’t standing up and leading then it’s them who don’t matter to our future.