Madge Maguire - Mega Thread

[Guest]

This weekend will show if Madge has the support of the players.
I'm sure the players know that if they're flogged by Saints on Sunday Madge will be gone on Monday.
It's an easy chance to get rid of him if they're of that mind.

Makes me wonder if the bonding session was a bonding session or a strategy meeting for who they wanted to coach them going forward.

 

[Needaname]

This weekend will show if Madge has the support of the players.
I'm sure the players know that if they're flogged by Saints on Sunday Madge will be gone on Monday.
It's an easy chance to get rid of him if they're of that mind.

Makes me wonder if the bonding session was a bonding session or a strategy meeting for who they wanted to coach them going forward.

Goodness. Get rid of the lot of them if that’s the way we are thinking.
Instead of jumping at shadows. Maybe consider that our style is actually working it just requires everyone to continue applying it for 80mins. When an individual makes a mistake we fall apart. That’s not a coaching problem. That is a Psycology problem.

 

[earl]

You worry about the cost to the business of acting. I worry about the cost to the business of not acting.

It's a good point. A good way to think about this is if you had the choice of Madge or any other available coach for this season who would you choose ?

The thing that I keep coming back too is that we haven't had real terrible signings since Madge has been here. I mean BJ, Nofo or Brooks are potentially our worst decisions and I don't seem them as being that bad. We don't have contracts on our books that will kill us for years.

I also don't think players signing will care that much about the coach leaving. So long as we have a coach or a plan in place I don't see the issue. I also don't think we will target juniors who will care less about this as well.

 

[Needaname]

You worry about the cost to the business of acting. I worry about the cost to the business of not acting.

It's a good point. A good way to think about this is if you had the choice of Madge or any other available coach for this season who would you choose ?

The thing that I keep coming back too is that we haven't had real terrible signings since Madge has been here. I mean BJ, Nofo or Brooks are potentially our worst decisions and I don't seem them as being that bad. We don't have contracts on our books that will kill us for years.

I also don't think players signing will care that much about the coach leaving. So long as we have a coach or a plan in place I don't see the issue. I also don't think we will target juniors who will care less about this as well.

Valid points.
But I’ll take you back to start of 2017.
As a result of that season we have the ability to use hindsight.

Were we really better off? We made such a drastic statement. CEO standing down JT and demanding success! It’s been 3-4 seasons since that day and as a result of the new appointment we were back to square 1.
By the end of 2017 we lost all our best juniors.
We spent all our marquee money.
We signed a combination of Dads army and Nomads.

Now Madge might not be getting results now on the field but he is getting them off it and in our lower grades.

We trade everything that has occurred from the past 2 years to start again and hand our blank cheque over to a new coach that hasn’t been in touch with the side and has had time to adjust to our needs we will be reliving the last 3 years again.
Do it once, do it right. Follow it through.
Our junior recruits are proving he has the right idea.
Our targets since Madge, sure we missed them but no one can say gee I’m glad we missed out on him.
Bunty Afoa
Latrell Mitchell
Josh Ado Carr
Jai Arrow
Alex Johnson
Jared Warea Hargreaves
Kurt Capwell.
Are all quality players and the right players.

 

[Tim Sheens]

The club has got to take its medicine. They extended him, when it was **unwarranted**, now they can lay in their bed.

I don’t want to be forced to join them in that bed, medicated or not. If the situation continues anywhere nearly as poorly as it already has for more than a year, then many of us will be heading to the doctors for a script.

With rumours that the ladder to get the side out of it's hole will only cost the club $600k odd and if that's the case plans should already be in place, so get down to the hardware store pronto.

 

[twentyforty]

The sack Madge campaign comes largely from fans who have no accountabilty for the 600k it would cost to do it, with no guarantee that in the short term any replacement could provide a quick fix to a problem that has taken years to create. I would hope those in control would be far more measured in decision making around this than reacting to emotional fans who have all the solutions- but in truth don't.

It came from the board embarrassed about results.

And has gained traction by a percentage of a vocal fan base understandably sick of losing.

And that traction is justified. I accept losses but wanted improvement in defence, attack, player's skills, discipline and composure. In short, confirmation we are on an upward trajectory. That has not happened. You worry about the cost to the business of acting. I worry about the cost to the business of not acting.

The pick and stick mentality works if there's evidence of some improvement, but in every measurable metric we've gone backwards and continue to do so.

Got nothing to do with pick n stick.
It’s about developing a culture driven development, bigger than any member of the organisation.
Old Chinese proverb..the first thing to do is start and the second is continue.

 

[avocadoontoast]

The sack Madge campaign comes largely from fans who have no accountabilty for the 600k it would cost to do it, with no guarantee that in the short term any replacement could provide a quick fix to a problem that has taken years to create. I would hope those in control would be far more measured in decision making around this than reacting to emotional fans who have all the solutions- but in truth don't.

It came from the board embarrassed about results.

And has gained traction by a percentage of a vocal fan base understandably sick of losing.

And that traction is justified. I accept losses but wanted improvement in defence, attack, player's skills, discipline and composure. In short, confirmation we are on an upward trajectory. That has not happened. You worry about the cost to the business of acting. I worry about the cost to the business of not acting.

The pick and stick mentality works if there's evidence of some improvement, but in every measurable metric we've gone backwards and continue to do so.

Got nothing to do with pick n stick.
It’s about developing a culture driven development, bigger than any member of the organisation.
Old Chinese proverb..the first thing to do is start and the second is continue.

I’m not sure I’ve seen any improvement in culture at all, at least not in 1st grade which is Madge’s domain.

 

[tig_prmz]

The work Madge and his crew have done over the last few years is starting to show dividends in the lower and junior grades. The mess and lack of direction the club had before Madge got here had no positive long term goal.

The positives are taking longer than expected to reach the NRL team. Hopefully Madge turns it around over the next few weeks, keeps the knives at bay, and completes the transformation of this weak club.

So put him in a role where he can oversee things. His coaching isn't working.

I'm not sure why this got downvoted.

To me this is actually a good alternative. From all reports, Madge works hard behind the scenes, has set up excellent pathways here and at Souths and commands a lot of respect from those outside the club. However, the issue becomes that he doesn't have the communication or the connect with the players. I think Madge is an asset to a football club but another NRL coach might be able to bring more to the current squad than Madge.

I certainly do not want us to start from scratch again...

 

[rihannafan1]

The work Madge and his crew have done over the last few years is starting to show dividends in the lower and junior grades. The mess and lack of direction the club had before Madge got here had no positive long term goal.

The positives are taking longer than expected to reach the NRL team. Hopefully Madge turns it around over the next few weeks, keeps the knives at bay, and completes the transformation of this weak club.

So put him in a role where he can oversee things. His coaching isn't working.

I'm not sure why this got downvoted.

To me this is actually a good alternative. From all reports, Madge works hard behind the scenes, has set up excellent pathways here and at Souths and commands a lot of respect from those outside the club. However, the issue becomes that he doesn't have the communication or the connect with the players. I think Madge is an asset to a football club but another NRL coach might be able to bring more to the current squad than Madge.

I certainly do not want us to start from scratch again...

hahaha thanks mate. Downvote, upvote, whatever. Let's all enjoy our day.

 

[Newtown]

Former Souths CEO Shane Richardson urges Wests Tigers not to sack Michael Maguire
NRL 4 hours ago

Former Souths CEO Shane Richardson has gone into bat for under fire Tigers coach Michael Maguire urging the joint venture to stick with the premiership winner.

Richardson was the last man to sack Maguire three years after he delivered the club a 2014 grand final victory for the Rabbitohs. The Tigers coach is under scrutiny from parts of the Wests board who want to remove him as head coach after their dismal start to the year.

Following through on the plan would be crazy according to Richardson.
"Madge is a great coach, I think he's outstanding. To me its absolutely ludicrous that they are thinking about letting Madge go in the short-term," he told Nine News.

"If they are going to make a decision, it should be made at the end of the season. Not now, where I think he'll take them to another level."
Richardson believes Maguire needs time to rebuild the club and he's not afraid of making unpopular decisions.

"He doesn't make them lightly. He doesn't make them to suit himself, he makes them because he believes they're right. They're not always right you've got to get 7/10, once you get 6 out of 10 you're in trouble. But Madge is a 7/10 plus decision maker."

The Tigers denied they were looking at a coaching change after their 40-6 hammering to Manly on Sunday, releasing a statement declaring they were united in the face of adversity.

 

[BZN]

Usually don't make posts like these, but the "sack Madge" storyline NEEDS to stop. The leaks about crisis meetings, players not wanting to play under Madge - they're coming from the same sources. People need to wise up and stop and think about why there are these leaks and what the possible agenda is behind them.

It is simple, the leaks come from the board in order to pass the blame on to the coach and take the focus away from them and their bad decisions. It has happened with all the previous coaches. If the team isn't performing, the board will leak stories to the media so the media and the fans run with the story and blame the coach. It makes it easier to sack the coach with the media and the fans backing while avoiding all blame.

The main shining lights to come out of the first 6 rounds are Stefano, Laurie, Simpkin, Luciano and Doueihi - all young guys bought the to club by Maguire. What more can Maguire do? Beyond that, what is any other coach currently available going to do.

Meanwhile, all these leaks and stories do is give underperforming players an excuse - instead at looking at their own performances they will just blame the coach. Once again, because the board are looking to shift blame and save face the fans, players and coach are the ones that suffer.

Shame we can't sack the bunch of flogs on the board.

Lee what’s his name knows who they are, call them out!!

He is one of them?

Is your comment a statement or a question Mr. Cochise?

 

[Blocker1963]

Have no doubt that Madge is a very good coach, his success at other clubs proves that, you don't win Premierships accidently, and from all reports he has changed his hardline attitude, he admitted that he needed to make changes when winning the job. His support staff, defensive coach and attack coach need to own their respective areas, it's been poor. As well as the players for their own performances. Even though Madge is overall responsible, the roster is better than it was 2 years ago, just lack a couple of Marquee players would compliment the young players, somebody with that representative quality. Not sure about Douhei at 6, Would make a great 3, or 4. Young Madden has very good vision and is tough as nails, would not look out of place in 6.

 

[TillLindemann]

Before the season began, we were predicted to finish towards the bottom of the ladder.

A lot of people thought we'd challenge for the 8, including myself. Our roster isn't as bad as our results suggest.


Our roster IS that bad.
For the last 10 years the same people (mostly) are in denial of this and predicted we would be top 8, often top 4!
It's as unrealistic as Bulldogs fans who thought they would make the 8.
Heart over head, or something like that...

I'm pretty realistic about us as a team and haven't been confident of making the 8 for years. In saying that, I think our roster is a lot better than our results suggest. It's the best roster we've had in quite a few years imo.

Agree, just hard to explain why they are not having a go at least?

My opinion is there is a huge disconnect between the playing group and the coach.

Our current squad unfortunately would react more positively to a softly-softly, bum-patting coach. The soft as butter style fairy coach like Ivan.
Maguire is too hard for these blokes......hell he would be odds-on to bash nearly all of them to a man if it came to a stink. That sums the current situation up.

Ivan's approach seems to be working for the Panthers.

Chair throwing and other displays of anger do not necessarily assist in getting the message across to players.

The only reason Ivans approach is working is because Gould put a fantastic recruitment and junior development in place..
Des Hassler tore off dressing room doors...how is his team going now he has his major players back...keep up the hate for Madge Paws..eventually you will convince yourself...

Ivan's approach had more success at WTs as well TT.

Have you noticed the difference in the football played in our lower grades to our NRL team?

I don't know why we bother writing about marquee signings. It's fanciful really. Even if our offer is similar to another club, don't you think for example a player like Staggs will note Roberts being starved so we can have more of the robotic hit-ups and bomb favoured by Maguire?

Paws I can honestly see why you and many others are angry and disappointed in our team at the moment..
But just stop for a moment and understand why Madge is playing a robotic style,firstly it is a defensive structure to get players to run hard up the middle with a kick and chase on the last...most teams do it and after they master it they then sharpen the attack...we must understand that we have much youth still learning and developing at NRL level..
The thing that has many coaches baffled is the rule changes and having to work out how to develop a game plan to counter the rules...
Just a thought,Manly were terrible to start the season with,after the star players back and getting used to the new rules they are coming good,Raiders are in a slump as well with a very good team...
Sacking Madge isnt the answer,letting him do his job this year to mould an excellent youthful confident team is the answer...lets judge at seasons end....

Coaching is an issue too why can Payten turn it around it’s due to his coaching

His team is 12th on the ladder.

 

[BZN]

@jirskyr
If given time, the Brad Arthur comparison might be right...no idea...
Re Ricky Stuart, IMO the jury is still out on him as a coach (maybe it's personal bias, but he irritates me...)
The Roosters team he coached was a team that was already making finals and Grand Finals; a team stacked with all-time talent. They really should have won more.
Likewise his team at Canberra now is pretty damn good.

I'd like to think that if Madge had either of those teams now we wouldn't be talking about sacking him.

I think it’s absolute rubbish when people try to discredit the coach and put it down to a side being full of stars. The side full of stars still has to respond to the coach. We know how temperamental players can be. If they don’t like the coach, they know they can tank it. Stuart has had success everywhere he’s gone. You left out his time at the Sharks. He took them to a prelim final. You can’t discredit a coach just because you don’t like him. A lot on here like to discredit Cleary, putting the Panthers success last year down to Barrett. Yet, this year, the Panthers are still flying and Barrett’s team is sitting last. Outside of any season we have played finals, our greatest patch was probably the start of 2018, having lost the big 4, we started the year beating all the top 4 sides from the previous year. The club has regressed under Madge, 9th his first season, 11th last year, and almost certainly will be a bottom 4 this year. And his contract was renewed ?‍♂️

Unfortunately, I don’t think the club can punt him. If they do, the nest guy who comes in will be another coach with his hands tied. He’ll have Brooks, Musgrove, Noffa, AJ all locked in for several years. Not to mention having to find a role for Hastings. The excuses will be coming thick and fast that “this isn’t his team”. Then when it finally is, he’ll get punted and the next guy will walk in to a mess. It’s a never ending cycle. The club has got to take its medicine. They extended him, when it was unwarranted, now they can lay in their bed.

Very well said @GNR4LIFE

 

[TillLindemann]

Ivan’s approach had more success at WTs as well TT.

What?? Ivan had no success at the Tigers. None. He couldn't make the 8, and he oversaw the worst and most short-sighted recruitment program in our club's history. Then he topped it off by dogging us.

 

[avocadoontoast]

Before the season began, we were predicted to finish towards the bottom of the ladder.

A lot of people thought we'd challenge for the 8, including myself. Our roster isn't as bad as our results suggest.


Our roster IS that bad.
For the last 10 years the same people (mostly) are in denial of this and predicted we would be top 8, often top 4!
It's as unrealistic as Bulldogs fans who thought they would make the 8.
Heart over head, or something like that...

I'm pretty realistic about us as a team and haven't been confident of making the 8 for years. In saying that, I think our roster is a lot better than our results suggest. It's the best roster we've had in quite a few years imo.

Agree, just hard to explain why they are not having a go at least?

My opinion is there is a huge disconnect between the playing group and the coach.

Our current squad unfortunately would react more positively to a softly-softly, bum-patting coach. The soft as butter style fairy coach like Ivan.
Maguire is too hard for these blokes......hell he would be odds-on to bash nearly all of them to a man if it came to a stink. That sums the current situation up.

Ivan's approach seems to be working for the Panthers.

Chair throwing and other displays of anger do not necessarily assist in getting the message across to players.

The only reason Ivans approach is working is because Gould put a fantastic recruitment and junior development in place..
Des Hassler tore off dressing room doors...how is his team going now he has his major players back...keep up the hate for Madge Paws..eventually you will convince yourself...

Ivan's approach had more success at WTs as well TT.

Have you noticed the difference in the football played in our lower grades to our NRL team?

I don't know why we bother writing about marquee signings. It's fanciful really. Even if our offer is similar to another club, don't you think for example a player like Staggs will note Roberts being starved so we can have more of the robotic hit-ups and bomb favoured by Maguire?

Paws I can honestly see why you and many others are angry and disappointed in our team at the moment..
But just stop for a moment and understand why Madge is playing a robotic style,firstly it is a defensive structure to get players to run hard up the middle with a kick and chase on the last...most teams do it and after they master it they then sharpen the attack...we must understand that we have much youth still learning and developing at NRL level..
The thing that has many coaches baffled is the rule changes and having to work out how to develop a game plan to counter the rules...
Just a thought,Manly were terrible to start the season with,after the star players back and getting used to the new rules they are coming good,Raiders are in a slump as well with a very good team...
Sacking Madge isnt the answer,letting him do his job this year to mould an excellent youthful confident team is the answer...lets judge at seasons end....

Coaching is an issue too why can Payten turn it around it’s due to his coaching

His team is 12th on the ladder.

Yep he’s taken his team from 14th to 12th in a quarter of a season which is an improvement. Madge has taken a team finishing 9th to 15th in two and a quarter seasons

 

[Tim Sheens]

Former Souths CEO Shane Richardson urges Wests Tigers not to sack Michael Maguire
NRL 4 hours ago

Former Souths CEO Shane Richardson has gone into bat for under fire Tigers coach Michael Maguire urging the joint venture to stick with the premiership winner.

Richardson was the last man to sack Maguire three years after he delivered the club a 2014 grand final victory for the Rabbitohs. The Tigers coach is under scrutiny from parts of the Wests board who want to remove him as head coach after their dismal start to the year.

Following through on the plan would be crazy according to Richardson.
"Madge is a great coach, I think he's outstanding. To me its absolutely ludicrous that they are thinking about letting Madge go in the short-term," he told Nine News.

"If they are going to make a decision, it should be made at the end of the season. Not now, where I think he'll take them to another level."
Richardson believes Maguire needs time to rebuild the club and he's not afraid of making unpopular decisions.

"He doesn't make them lightly. He doesn't make them to suit himself, he makes them because he believes they're right. They're not always right you've got to get 7/10, once you get 6 out of 10 you're in trouble. But Madge is a 7/10 plus decision maker."

The Tigers denied they were looking at a coaching change after their 40-6 hammering to Manly on Sunday, releasing a statement declaring they were united in the face of adversity.

Says the guy that sacked him, hahahahaha.

A guy that was making 70% plus positive decisions yet was only getting half of that results wise from them over two and a bit seasons, yeah that makes sense. It has continued similarly here.

Maguire has delivered results, no doubt, but that was prior to and including 2014, which is seven years ago with a rampaging Burgess, Inglis and co that would have taken us there too. If Pascoe and others have not been making contingency plans, they are derelict in their duties.

 

[Telltails]

The sack Madge campaign comes largely from fans who have no accountabilty for the 600k it would cost to do it, with no guarantee that in the short term any replacement could provide a quick fix to a problem that has taken years to create. I would hope those in control would be far more measured in decision making around this than reacting to emotional fans who have all the solutions- but in truth don't.

It came from the board embarrassed about results.

And has gained traction by a percentage of a vocal fan base understandably sick of losing.

And that traction is justified. I accept losses but wanted improvement in defence, attack, player's skills, discipline and composure. In short, confirmation we are on an upward trajectory. That has not happened. You worry about the cost to the business of acting. I worry about the cost to the business of not acting.

The pick and stick mentality works if there's evidence of some improvement, but in every measurable metric we've gone backwards and continue to do so.

This rebuild is a club rebuild. You are basing every thing on the performance of team that next to no-one rates. It is established that the club can not attract the players we need to be successful in our FG side which means building from the bottom up to get to that point. There is not one contracted player in that first grade side that I can identify that is worth sacking another coach for - the cost financially and the perception that we can never see any thing through or get it right. All that will do is set the next coach up for failure too.

 

[avocadoontoast]

The sack Madge campaign comes largely from fans who have no accountabilty for the 600k it would cost to do it, with no guarantee that in the short term any replacement could provide a quick fix to a problem that has taken years to create. I would hope those in control would be far more measured in decision making around this than reacting to emotional fans who have all the solutions- but in truth don't.

It came from the board embarrassed about results.

And has gained traction by a percentage of a vocal fan base understandably sick of losing.

And that traction is justified. I accept losses but wanted improvement in defence, attack, player's skills, discipline and composure. In short, confirmation we are on an upward trajectory. That has not happened. You worry about the cost to the business of acting. I worry about the cost to the business of not acting.

The pick and stick mentality works if there's evidence of some improvement, but in every measurable metric we've gone backwards and continue to do so.

This rebuild is a club rebuild. You are basing every thing on the performance of team that next to no-one rates. It is established that the club can not attract the players we need to be successful in our FG side which means building from the bottom up to get to that point. There is not one contracted player in that first grade side that I can identify that is worth sacking another coach for - the cost financially and the perception that we can never see any thing through or get it right. All that will do is set the next coach up for failure too.

Why have we gone backwards when we’ve supposedly gotten rid of much of the dead wood and replaced them with Madge’s signings? Do you think our roster is stronger or weaker than 2018, when we finished 9th.

 

[TIGERPOWER]

LEE on SEN pretty much saying Madge won’t be going anywhere and will be the coach for the tigers for the next couple of years.