Moltzen and Groat

[Alf_Duguid]

Sorry Dermo to disappoint you but Tim should have taken control and lead the team around the park. He had the perfect opportunity to grow a set. Any time you want to join us in reality, feel free too
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[fergiefurr]

groat cost us hugely in the semi last year and has been just as bad this year

but sheens has decided he likes him so he has a spot in the 17 for life

ill throw fulton in the 'not a first grader' category too

 

[Glennb]

I was pretty skeptical about BMM. But i am starting to see what obviously coaches have seen in him. He has impact. I saw a lot of Moltzen in State cup as five eighth, with lazarus at half, and he is a good, creative player. A matchwinner often. we have all been wanting a dominat half, ala Johns, DCE, even Matt Head etc but we have Marshall and I don't think any of us would want to go back to the days before Marshall, so maybe we have to accept that the ball will always go to him and Moltzen will have to find his feet within the Farah/Marshall mould. Just a thought.

Look this line of argument is really starting to grate on me. I'm not picking on you full 80, Dermo is saying the same thing. Some people here make out the halfs job is just ot spark some flamboyant attacking move or to tear sides apart and therefore Moltzen gets a pass because he has Benji outside him. It is a halfs job to organise the forwards and make sure the rigth guy gets the right pass to ensure that they get a good roll on and go forward. It is the halfs job to have a good kicking game. It is the halfs job to then get early crisp ball to a wide second rower or 5/8\. There are MANY things that a half should do besides just give it to Benji.

I still say Mitchell Pearce is the right guy for us, but for me its clear Moltzen is not. Based on the little I've seen of Miller, he is more promising than Moltzen. Simply because he seems to be a pure half which we havent had since Prince.

 

[dermo]

I was pretty skeptical about BMM. But i am starting to see what obviously coaches have seen in him. He has impact. I saw a lot of Moltzen in State cup as five eighth, with lazarus at half, and he is a good, creative player. A matchwinner often. we have all been wanting a dominat half, ala Johns, DCE, even Matt Head etc but we have Marshall and I don't think any of us would want to go back to the days before Marshall, so maybe we have to accept that the ball will always go to him and Moltzen will have to find his feet within the Farah/Marshall mould. Just a thought.

Look this line of argument is really starting to grate on me. I'm not picking on you full 80, Dermo is saying the same thing. Some people here make out the halfs job is just ot spark some flamboyant attacking move or to tear sides apart and therefore Moltzen gets a pass because he has Benji outside him. It is a halfs job to organise the forwards and make sure the rigth guy gets the right pass to ensure that they get a good roll on and go forward. It is the halfs job to have a good kicking game. It is the halfs job to then get early crisp ball to a wide second rower or 5/8\. There are MANY things that a half should do besides just give it to Benji.

I still say Mitchell Pearce is the right guy for us, but for me its clear Moltzen is not. Based on the little I've seen of Miller, he is more promising than Moltzen. Simply because he seems to be a pure half which we havent had since Prince.

Everything you say in the first paragraph is entirely correct, and with time Moltzen will settle into a role similar to this, much like Lui did, but at the moment it is Farah and Benji who share this role, since Prince left they have always done this and they will continue to do this aslong as they are both in the same team, so to some extent we will never have a pure halfback who controls the team.

 

[Glennb]

I was pretty skeptical about BMM. But i am starting to see what obviously coaches have seen in him. He has impact. I saw a lot of Moltzen in State cup as five eighth, with lazarus at half, and he is a good, creative player. A matchwinner often. we have all been wanting a dominat half, ala Johns, DCE, even Matt Head etc but we have Marshall and I don't think any of us would want to go back to the days before Marshall, so maybe we have to accept that the ball will always go to him and Moltzen will have to find his feet within the Farah/Marshall mould. Just a thought.

Look this line of argument is really starting to grate on me. I'm not picking on you full 80, Dermo is saying the same thing. Some people here make out the halfs job is just ot spark some flamboyant attacking move or to tear sides apart and therefore Moltzen gets a pass because he has Benji outside him. It is a halfs job to organise the forwards and make sure the rigth guy gets the right pass to ensure that they get a good roll on and go forward. It is the halfs job to have a good kicking game. It is the halfs job to then get early crisp ball to a wide second rower or 5/8\. There are MANY things that a half should do besides just give it to Benji.

I still say Mitchell Pearce is the right guy for us, but for me its clear Moltzen is not. Based on the little I've seen of Miller, he is more promising than Moltzen. Simply because he seems to be a pure half which we havent had since Prince.

Everything you say in the first paragraph is entirely correct, and with time Moltzen will settle into a role similar to this, much like Lui did, but at the moment it is Farah and Benji who share this role, since Prince left they have always done this and they will continue to do this aslong as they are both in the same team, so to some extent we will never have a pure halfback who controls the team.

Then we may as well put Gareth in the 7 jersey because we are asking NOTHING of our half other than to tackle. This isnt kindergarten, its the NRL. We dont need players who will "settle into the position" with time. We need players who do it NOW, first up. To me thats the point. Playing halfback is an instinctive thing and I've seen nothing in Moltzen ( he has had time..what has happened to all the guys saying we've never lost with him at half etc) to show that he has those instincts. The ONLY thing I've seen in Miller to date is that he does have those instincts. Whether he has the skills, strength etc to back it up is unproven.

 

[beer_delivery_guy]

Horrid game, miller into half , moltzen into fullback , groat needs fitness, Fulton needs 5kgs to be more of an impact !!!
Farah is unfit. Reddy needs to get more involved like utai !!!!!
We need to improve massively to beat the raiders who are a good side this yr !!!!
THAT IS ALL !!!
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[Citizen_Tiger]

This style of thread (and there are plenty of them) have less to do with objectivity and more to do with an unreasonable and quite unnatural levels of personal indignation. This place is a lousy and negative environment after a loss, where all sense of balance and context are sacrificed in the name of petulant, immature abuse of players, many of whom are barely out of their teens. If it's not the players it's the CEO or the coach. I'm frankly amazed that the moderators allow people's characters to be so completely decimated on such a regualr basis. It's cowardly and repugnant.

You're allowed to be critical, but at least attempt to be constructive and balanced, rather than abuse, marginalise and slander people. It's a sh..ty, uninteresting forum at the moment, I hope the players and staff treat it with the contempt it currently deserves

By the by September is six months off

 

[GNR4LIFE]

This style of thread (and there are plenty of them) have less to do with objectivity and more to do with an unreasonable and quite unnatural levels of personal indignation. This place is a lousy and negative environment after a loss, where all sense of balance and context are sacrificed in the name of petulant, immature abuse of players, many of whom are barely out of their teens. If it's not the players it's the CEO or the coach. I'm frankly amazed that the moderators allow people's characters to be so completely decimated on such a regualr basis. It's cowardly and repugnant.

You're allowed to be critical, but at least attempt to be constructive and balanced, rather than abuse, marginalise and slander people. It's a sh..ty, uninteresting forum at the moment, I hope the players and staff treat it with the contempt it currently deserves

By the by September is six months off

LMAO slander? your having a good laugh. I haven't so far seen anyone in this thread say anything personal towards any player. Its purely performance based to which these guys aren't immuned to. It comes with the territory of being a professional athlete. And being critical of a players performance isn't slander. Give me a break

 

[851]

Moltzen was crap again,Groat was found out again,all too familiar,we need a proper half,one who does the basic things,take the line on,kick,force line drop outs,try assists,our 7 does none of these,and Sheen's it's your fault

 

[supercoach]

do you really think sheens is going to flick tim molten from the no7 role. He stuck with johnny morris for about a year. Iam afraid get used to it and it seems his main threat is miller and he seems to be on the nose with the man that counts. He may come good he is not a bad footballer but while he struggles the team struggles, it s that simple

 

[hybrid_tiger]

Moltzen is the perfect example of a luxury player.

I dare anyone to find me one game where we were being beaten and he stepped up and helped us turn the tide. Just one.

When we are in an arm wrestle he is nowhere to be seen.

 

[GNR4LIFE]

Moltzen is the perfect example of a luxury player.

I dare anyone to find me one game where we were being beaten and he stepped up and helped us turn the tide. Just one.

When we are in an arm wrestle he is nowhere to be seen.

A few of his supporters tried to claim that he was the reason behind the comeback against the Warriors last year :crazy

Just because coincidently he came off the bench to replace an injured Lui in the second half

 

[LCA]

Given Sheens' preference for Moltzen to be in the team, maybe he shoud do a direct swap with Tom Humble….Moltzen to fullback (where he was better late last year) and Humble to halfback (where he has some experience). Could give the dash and creativity at 7 that is so sorely lacking at the moment.

As for the forwrads?? I would love to know the win/loss ratio when Gareth Ellis doesn't play or comes off injured (not on bench rotation) through a game. His absence really seems to unsettle the forwards' combination and effectiveness. If there was any positives from the debacle last night, I thought BMM again looked like a strong running second rower of the future.

 

[The_Phantom]

Talk about 2 average first graders. In Groat's case i wouldn't even consider him a first grader.What does he offer? Give me Fifita over Groat anyday of the week. Nothing i've ever seen from him has me excited. If he's the best we got God help us. And what can you say about Moltzen? If he's a halfback i'm Miss Teen USA. I can't believe he's under instructions from Sheens to take a back-seat. Sheens is crazy, but surely he's not that crazy to allow his halfback to be a non-facter week in, week out. Lui might have struggled at times, but at least he played a halfbacks game and was dangerous with the ball in his hands. Moltzen is nothing but a passanger. Give a Miller a shot, surely he couldn't do any worse, and for the good of Wests Tigers don't renew Moltzens contract

e. I don't often agree with GNR4LIFE ,but I think his summation is spot on this time .
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[tiger91]

Given Sheens' preference for Moltzen to be in the team, maybe he shoud do a direct swap with Tom Humble….Moltzen to fullback (where he was better late last year) and Humble to halfback (where he has some experience). Could give the dash and creativity at 7 that is so sorely lacking at the moment.

As for the forwrads?? I would love to know the win/loss ratio when Gareth Ellis doesn't play or comes off injured (not on bench rotation) through a game. His absence really seems to unsettle the forwards' combination and effectiveness. If there was anu positives, I thought BMM again looked like a strong running second rower of the future.

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Our bench really prooved their worth last night, or the ones used anyways. I for one would be bringing Bell into the starting side and Groat back to the bench. Not that Groat played poor, but I think he offers more on the bench and Bell has the experience were lacking with the absence of Galloway.
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[The_Phantom]

Groat doesnt have the motor for NRL at this point. His goal line defence is woeful. He cost us last week with King's try and he cost us 2 more tonight. not up to it at this time. Moors is up to it but he didnt get on til the 57th min. Sheenius!!!!!

. Can't disagree with that
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[The_Phantom]

i believe moltzen was our worst tonight…and that's saying something....seriously did anyone play one of their better games...we were terrible right across the park

. No Groat was our worst
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[softlaw]

Moltzen - the next Johnny Morris (or is that Cooper Cronk. I always get those 2 mixed up). Has none of the skills a halfback needs. At least I didn;t see him whinge at his teammates in last nights debacle.

Groat - will be good but needs time and development. And fitness. And some experience around him. And probably a week or two in lower grades if we had depth atm. Him, Woods, BMM and Moops would be lucky to have played 75 games between the lot of them.

 

[cusschops]

Groat was terrible last night. I agree he might some day be an average first grader but right now he's getting dominated badly. Soon he will be found out and targeted by other NRL teams and we can't afford that. What about starting with Bell or Mores? At least bell is hardened to the top grade. I just wanted to cry watching the game last night. C'mon Tigers, next week!
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[rossop]

They both made me cringe last night. Groat is only just a bench player on last nights form. I agree he may well improve with age. Moltzen played bad as well but its the forwards that need to be shaken up so the backs can have an impact. I would be giving him a few more weeks at 7 before changing things. Before he did his knee he was playing very well at half and, last year, when he was playing badly at fullback most people on this forum were baying for his blood but he came good and played some excellent footy.

By the way last year, Moltzen, and the team in general, only came good when Ellis returned to the side. We need our forwards at full strength and going up the guts so our backs can do their thing. Its not Rocket Surgery, its been the same as long as I can remember.