OFFICIAL Moses Mbye [Discussion]

[tonza]

Playing tonight is quite possibly one of the most selfish acts I've ever seen from a Tigers player. You could see him hobbling down the tunnel when he lead the team out and he walked his first hit up. He should have put his hand up from the start, it looked like he knew he wasn't righr. I'm not sure if Talau was 18th man, but would have been a great time to blood him.

I've lost what little time and/or respect I had for him after that. How he is the skip and someone like Matterson isn't bewilders me.

Agree. With all the blame of various players on here tonight, surely Mbye would have to be most responsible for our loss. He put us on the back foot right from the start. He was selfish as it was obvious he was in no condition to play. A reserve grade player, whoever it is, would have be better than Mbye for 7 minutes.

 

[fair dinkum]

Playing tonight is quite possibly one of the most selfish acts I've ever seen from a Tigers player. You could see him hobbling down the tunnel when he lead the team out and he walked his first hit up. He should have put his hand up from the start, it looked like he knew he wasn't righr. I'm not sure if Talau was 18th man, but would have been a great time to blood him.

I've lost what little time and/or respect I had for him after that. How he is the skip and someone like Matterson isn't bewilders me.

Agree. With all the blame of various players on here tonight, surely Mbye would have to be most responsible for our loss. He put us on the back foot right from the start. He was selfish as it was obvious he was in no condition to play. A reserve grade player, whoever it is, would have be better than Mbye for 7 minutes.

Mbye should really be dragged over the coals for this. He knows his body. The bloody club captain puts a must win game in such jeopardy from the outset. His captaincy should be stripped immediately. Thats not a captains actions to do that to your team. Very weak.

 

[Geo]

@Fraze23 I don’t understand the 18th man rule, how does it work. Yes he was 18th man.

A player can be replaced by either of the non playing reserves if injured in the warm up..

In tonight's case either McQueen or Talau could have replaced Mbye..and should have..

Medical and Coaching staff call..

 

[Madge]

@Geo cheers

 

[TIGER]

Playing tonight is quite possibly one of the most selfish acts I've ever seen from a Tigers player. You could see him hobbling down the tunnel when he lead the team out and he walked his first hit up. He should have put his hand up from the start, it looked like he knew he wasn't righr. I'm not sure if Talau was 18th man, but would have been a great time to blood him.

I've lost what little time and/or respect I had for him after that. How he is the skip and someone like Matterson isn't bewilders me.

Another black cross for Madge.
1 For making him captain to begin with.
2 For allowing him to take the field.

 

[Chipofftheoldblock]

All players want to play even when injured but considering how important this game was, the coach and medical staff are to blame. The decision should have been taken out of his hands straight away as we basically went into that game with 16 men.
Worst coaching decision this year by Madge.

 

[Snake]

There seems a problem here and would like to know why Mbye was aloud to start the game ! When it looked as though he was injured . The coach needs to answer this simple question WHY ... I am getting tied of Maguire getting a free run , he likes to talk so start talking and explain why a player that appeared injured was not replaced by a fit player PLEASE EXPLAIN for mine the coaches free ride is over !

 

[Madge]

@Snake He did answer it in his press conference...

 

[GNR4LIFE]

Let’s be honest, it’s not like it lost us the game. We had enough field position to win 2 games. The curse of the season defining game strikes again.

 

[jirskyr]

Bah who are all the insta-doctors in here?

Medical professionals assessed him and the coach gave it the thumbs up. It backfired. Player is no more culpable than anyone else in the organisation. There's barely any difference between Mbye having a twinge and Farah getting hurt once the game started.

Or, for that matter, any player carrying a niggle into a match, like Fifita on Friday who was strapped like an old trotter and couldn't complete the match, but they picked him anyway. Or any player who plays with injury over the course of a season, having needles or restricted to light training or huge amounts of pre-game physio or putting off surgery...

Key match yesterday, it is totally reasonable to lean, even on the side of risk, towards playing your best players. Cronk played the GF last year with a broken shoulder and this WAS NOT a masterstroke, it was an extreme calculated risk that could have superbly backfired.

 

[Tim Sheens]

Worst coaching decision this year by Madge.

Won't go that far, as there are a few for mine, but having said that, I see it as having been the perfect situation to give Talau a run.

 

[Madge]

@Tiger-Tragic that first half penalty were we took the two points was a blunder!

 

[Jock Koss]

@Madge as was our opportunity to throw it over (not taken) early in 2nd stanza.. Benji was the leader out there with Farah off and he absolutely cooked it last night - am one of his biggest defenders but Benji Marshall did sweet F.A to get us over the line last night and was thoroughly outplayed by brooks who I almost feel would’ve gone better on his own. Matterson’ the only one I’d feed TBH... how are you lot blaming JUST the coach? Wow, wish I was blissfully unaware

 

[happy_tiger]

Playing tonight is quite possibly one of the most selfish acts I've ever seen from a Tigers player. You could see him hobbling down the tunnel when he lead the team out and he walked his first hit up. He should have put his hand up from the start, it looked like he knew he wasn't righr. I'm not sure if Talau was 18th man, but would have been a great time to blood him.

I've lost what little time and/or respect I had for him after that. How he is the skip and someone like Matterson isn't bewilders me.

IF Mbye was asked if you will be right then Magde and Moussa are at fault

Madge has shot himself in the presser and admitted the 1st time Mbye hit 100% he broke down

That should have happened pre game

In every fitness test I have seen , trainer gives his worst case scenario and coach weighs up the pros and cons and makes the call

If Talau isn't ready for grade you don't put him in the 21 or the 19

If Talau plays we still win ....as long as we have a proper back up for Robbie

Dogs were never going to blow us out of the water in the forwards unlike a Cows or Newcastle might

 

[jirskyr]

Madge has shot himself in the presser and admitted the 1st time Mbye hit 100% he broke down

That is not exactly what Madge said, and the problem is you are putting words in his mouth. "The first time he hit 100%", you insinuate they never tested any sprinting in the fitness test.

I quote, verbatim:
>Uh, he had a little slight strain, uh, in his hip flexor, um, throughout the warm up, uhhh, he felt he was ok, but once he took off at top speed, unfortunately, it gave way there, at the start of the game, so, yeah.

>Were you close to not playing him during the warm up? *muffled*

>Yeah... I spoke to the doctors and the physios; he obviously had some chatter around that one and he felt that he was fine, so they tested him and they thought he was going to be ok, um, it was just unfortunate that he didn't make it.

His literal words - once he took off at top speed, it gave way there, at the start of the game. He never says they failed to adequately test him. He doesn't say they failed to get him to do sprints. He only ever says that he took off at top speed at the start of the game - you interpret this as some failure to adequately test in the warm-up but Madge doesn't say anything of the sort.

He says that the doctors and physios tested him and he passed.

Now if you can show me many instances where Tigers played blokes who should not have played, if there is some epidemic of players breaking down after playing with known injuries, then I'd take your point of this being an incident of potential unprofessionalism amongst a whole trend.

But actually, they had one bloke get a twinge, fitness tested him, he passed, then he pulled up lame. It is entirely possible that it was a totally non-serious injury only until he actually injured it. Not every sprain, twisted ankle, tightness, bump, bruise, collision, cork, knock or discomfort is cause for being ruled out of a match, no matter what it might become during the match.

 

[happy_tiger]

Madge has shot himself in the presser and admitted the 1st time Mbye hit 100% he broke down

That is not exactly what Madge said, and the problem is you are putting words in his mouth. "The first time he hit 100%", you insinuate they never tested any sprinting in the fitness test.

I quote, verbatim:
>Uh, he had a little slight strain, uh, in his hip flexor, um, throughout the warm up, uhhh, he felt he was ok, but once he took off at top speed, unfortunately, it gave way there, at the start of the game, so, yeah.

>Were you close to not playing him during the warm up? *muffled*

>Yeah... I spoke to the doctors and the physios; he obviously had some chatter around that one and he felt that he was fine, so they tested him and they thought he was going to be ok, um, it was just unfortunate that he didn't make it.

His literal words - once he took off at top speed, it gave way there, at the start of the game. He never says they failed to adequately test him. He doesn't say they failed to get him to do sprints. He only ever says that he took off at top speed at the start of the game - you interpret this as some failure to adequately test in the warm-up but Madge doesn't say anything of the sort.

He says that the doctors and physios tested him and he passed.

Now if you can show me many instances where Tigers played blokes who should not have played, if there is some epidemic of players breaking down after playing with known injuries, then I'd take your point of this being an incident of potential unprofessionalism amongst a whole trend.

But actually, they had one bloke get a twinge, fitness tested him, he passed, then he pulled up lame. It is entirely possible that it was a totally non-serious injury only until he actually injured it. Not every sprain, twisted ankle, tightness, bump, bruise, collision, cork, knock or discomfort is cause for being ruled out of a match, no matter what it might become during the match.

Well actually that probably makes it worse

Never ask a player if he is fine ....they could lose limbs and tell you they were fine

Just remember ...you made the point about you can't test a strain without contact .... he faceplanted without any contact

And your question about injured players .....tell me Mbye was fit the first 8 weeks after his PCL ....Farah at one stage couldn't bend over to pick up a ball v Canberra 2nd game we played

Any other questions you want answered while you attempt to protect Maguire

 

[jirskyr]

Just remember …you made the point about you can’t test a strain without contact … he faceplanted without any contact
And your question about injured players …tell me Mbye was fit the first 8 weeks after his PCL …Farah at one stage couldn’t bend over to pick up a ball v Canberra 2nd game we played

Actually that's not what I said, again you are taking one statement and hearing something else. What I said was "You can’t 100% test a potential strain in a non-combat scenario". Good as they are, medics any physios can only simulate match conditions outside of the match. They can only provide a best guess about how players are going to hold up when they really play - not just really get tackled, but sprint in match conditions, side-step, push out of a tackle etc.

I take your point that players will say they are fine - so be it, take the player out of the equation. Madge relied on the doctor and physio to make the call as professionals and they thought he'd pull through. There would be 1000 of those decisions made every season, most which are good guesses and some which are not.

In terms of Mbye and Farah playing injured in previous matches - undoubtedly. Not just them, a whole bunch of other players too. But that isn't an epidemic of malpractice or unprofessionalism, that is football 101. The worst your roster is, arguably, the more you have to risk players who are not 100% fit.

You seem to maintain that the 100% fit rookie is better than the injured pro; gosh, better phone up blokes like Wayne Pearce, Shaun Timmins, Dean Young who played with injury for years.

So if you are gonna burn coaches for running out players who are not 100% risk, by all means, line every single one of them up because every single one of them do it.

 

[happy_tiger]

Just remember …you made the point about you can’t test a strain without contact … he faceplanted without any contact
And your question about injured players …tell me Mbye was fit the first 8 weeks after his PCL …Farah at one stage couldn’t bend over to pick up a ball v Canberra 2nd game we played

Actually that's not what I said, again you are taking one statement and hearing something else. What I said was "You can’t 100% test a potential strain in a non-combat scenario". Good as they are, medics any physios can only simulate match conditions outside of the match. They can only provide a best guess about how players are going to hold up when they really play - not just really get tackled, but sprint in match conditions, side-step, push out of a tackle etc.

I take your point that players will say they are fine - so be it, take the player out of the equation. Madge relied on the doctor and physio to make the call as professionals and they thought he'd pull through. There would be 1000 of those decisions made every season, most which are good guesses and some which are not.

In terms of Mbye and Farah playing injured in previous matches - undoubtedly. Not just them, a whole bunch of other players too. But that isn't an epidemic of malpractice or unprofessionalism, that is football 101. The worst your roster is, arguably, the more you have to risk players who are not 100% fit.

You seem to maintain that the 100% fit rookie is better than the injured pro; gosh, better phone up blokes like Wayne Pearce, Shaun Timmins, Dean Young who played with injury for years.

So if you are gonna burn coaches for running out players who are not 100% risk, by all means, line every single one of them up because every single one of them do it.

So you've just named the three players whose injuries were down to arthritis based injuries or players who had basically bone on bone injuries

Injuries that won't get any worse basically no matter what happens ...

Was Moses Mbye injury even remotely in that ball park ...hell no

And it didn't have to be the rookie ....could of been McQueen as Geo said

Go have a look at all the stats from that game and tell me we don't win with Liddle coming off the bench as hooker instead of Taylor ....

 

[Needaname]

@happy_tiger
I’m with you Happy.
I just cannot accept that if the guy couldn’t run at top speed why our medical staff didn’t push him to find that out before the game.
So he does a quick sprint test and he makes it worse. It’s already bad to begin with and yet that guy sitting on the pine for two weeks could have at least been an extra body in that line.
Poor poor decision from all involved!

 

[Jock Koss]

@Needaname Agree, well summarised.