Packer & Reynolds

For 2 of our most experienced players it was dumb but also shows why they aren’t playing. The WT aren’t the right fit for them.

If they attended the game you stay for the game. If you named in the team, you stay with the team.
Walking out on your team mates at half time isn’t a great look regardless how it could be spinned.
 
@Roar_Power said in [Packer & Reynolds](/post/1225142) said:
@Aesopian said in [Packer & Reynolds](/post/1225141) said:
ChammASS strikes again... what a flog.

He once again references Club Insiders. That’s the journo term for “nobody would speak to me so I’ll go ahead and reference fantasy insiders to justify my opinions.”

Clear as day now that there’s a massive agenda against the club for whatever reasons. But like any news cycle, it’ll soon be forgotten once the next major NRL talking point presents itself.

I actually thought Chammas was on pretty good terms with WT. Must be thinking of another journalist....

Maybe in the past but his recent pieces hint that's no longer the case.

Constantly driving home the "Madge is the problem narrative", "Angst in the ranks" nonsense.

His previous relationships may have been solid with staff who are no longer at the club. Looks like Madge isn't toeing the media's line and they're extremely salty over it. And if that's the case then good on the coach. Stuff these media plebs, give them nothing. Take the Bennett approach
 
@fibrodreaming said in [Packer & Reynolds](/post/1225149) said:
@Chaos said in [Packer & Reynolds](/post/1225144) said:
At the end of the day, I just wonder how the other players feel about this?
On them grounds, the whole team
Unity could potentially be compromised if not dealt with properly.
I’m appalled that the guys left.

I think unity can be damaged when you have players like Packer, our highest paid forward, contributing nothing to the team, while others like Eisenhuth, on a small contract, are having a dig each week. To top it off, Eisenhuth has been told to look after himself because we may not be able to offer him a deal for 2021.

So we keep Packer and put Eisenhuth, as well as keeping JRey and punt Benji.

That can't be good for morale.

No it’s not good, we all know that, We are still cleaning the mess Ivan left us.
To make it worst, these guys can’t even stick around for the 80mins.
 
@fibrodreaming said in [Packer & Reynolds](/post/1225149) said:
@Chaos said in [Packer & Reynolds](/post/1225144) said:
At the end of the day, I just wonder how the other players feel about this?
On them grounds, the whole team
Unity could potentially be compromised if not dealt with properly.
I’m appalled that the guys left.

I think unity can be damaged when you have players like Packer, our highest paid forward, contributing nothing to the team, while others like Eisenhuth, on a small contract, are having a dig each week. To top it off, Eisenhuth has been told to look after himself because we may not be able to offer him a deal for 2021.

So we keep Packer and put Eisenhuth, as well as keeping JRey and punt Benji.

That can't be good for morale.


But they are on contracts, nothing we can do about it, I am sure all players know how it works.
Maybe Packers foot is playing up again?
Just on Eisenhuth, Taylor and McIntyre I thought we lifted noticeably when they came on, admittedly they were fresh, but they played there role well. I hope we keep them all.
 
@Jay said in [Packer & Reynolds](/post/1225116) said:
@Pbulk said in [Packer & Reynolds](/post/1225097) said:
Tigers to re-sign Maguire but Reynolds, Packer drama highlights issues

By Michael Chammas

The Wests Tigers are moving to silence the deafening noise surrounding the tenure of their coach, set to hand Michael Maguire a one year contract extension despite more cause for concern emerging on Sunday.

A week of conjecture around the coach's relationship with his players ended with revelations out-of-favour duo Josh Reynolds and Russell Packer left Saturday night's game against Manly at half time.

When contacted by the Herald on Sunday night, Reynolds declined to comment. However sources close to the club said Reynolds, whose behaviour was out of character given his reputation as the ultimate team player, was privately fuming over suggestions that he walked out because he couldn't handle the cold.

The five-eighth, despite being told to find a new home on half a dozen occasions, wasn't required to attend the match but turned up to support his teammates, before leaving at half time.

"It's not a good look for two of our players to leave at half time," chairman Lee Hagipantelis told the Herald.

"Strictly speaking, they weren't required to be there. Russell had to warm up with the team as 19th man but Josh didn't even warm up with the team. Both players have acknowledged their action creates a perception, but perception is not reality.

"I have spoken to both of them and they've acknowledge it wasn't a good look. There was no intention on their part to show disrespect or a lack of unity. Russell suffers from an arthritic condition and had multiple surgeries in his foot to try and help him play again. Sitting there in the cold does affect him, that is true."

The players' inability to see out the match in the stands reflects poorly, but again highlights the disconnect that the club wants addressed in the offseason when it sits down with Maguire to map out its plan for the future.

The Wests Tigers has been a revolving door of coaches in recent years and the club is determined to make sure Maguire isn't added to the list, with the former South Sydney premiership-winning mentor to be given an extension on his contract despite already being locked in at the joint venture until the end of 2021.

It's an incredible show of faith when you consider the noise surrounding Maguire's tenure at the club. The murmurs of discontent in the playing ranks keep bubbling along, not to mention the fact the Tigers are likely to miss the finals for a second straight year under his watch despite a miraculous come-from-behind win against Manly on Saturday night.

The Tigers would be well within their rights to sit back and see how next year unfolds before making a decision. That's the safe play considering he still has another year to run on his deal and, to put it bluntly, rival clubs are not exactly lining up for his services.

But in a strong message to the players, some of whom are privately questioning whether he is in fact the right man to lead them out of a decade-long finals slumber, the board and executives will in the coming months add another year to Maguire's incumbency.

The Tigers and, for the large part, their success-starved fans, believe Maguire is the right man. They are behind his no-nonsense approach and want him to add a hard edge to a club long regarded for its soft underbelly.

They also know where there's smoke, there's fire. The issue involving Packer and Reynolds is evidence of that. Packer and Reynolds didn't break any rules when they left the game. Some of their teammates who weren't playing didn't even show up at all, but it's a bad look nonetheless.

The players must take responsibility for their poor choices, but there's also an onus on Maguire to evolve in the off-season and address some of the issues with his coaching style that has affected his relationship with several players at his last two clubs.

There's a misconception that the issues arise from how hard Maguire trains his players, that they can't stomach his military-like regime. The real problem stems around his communication skills, and a feeling he avoids the tough conversations.

Like when he asked Benji Marshall and Robbie Farah to approach Moses Mbye about stepping away from the captaincy last year, instead of having the conversation himself. Or, just last week, when he struggled to tell Marshall he wasn't required in 2021, asking the veteran playmaker to "give him 24 hours" despite already reaching a decision with the club he wasn't part of their plans going forward.

Maguire has the runs on the board. No one is questioning his rugby league IQ or his ability to prepare a football team. But a generational transition in players has prompted debate over how compatible his philosophies are with the modern-day footballer.

**It was evident last year in how he handled Ryan Matterson, a player who came to the club from the Sydney Roosters with a reputation for requiring a cuddle - or three - to get the best out of him.** Maguire is from a different school. The type that brings baseball bats and boa constrictors into dressing rooms to get his point across. Mollycoddling delicate footballers is not in his nature.

The Tigers possess a roster built by Ivan Cleary with personalities that suit an Ivan Cleary-coached team. Maguire will get his team in 2022, when the salary cap frees up in the first season of his forthcoming extension, but what he does between now and then will have a huge impact on whether he can attract Maguire-type footballers to the club.

Tigers powerbrokers know the club is not in a position to let quality footballers walk out the door, or turn players off joining, if it can be avoided by the coach learning to relate on a different level. Sometimes a teaspoon of cement isn't the only remedy.

There is a genuine point there, anyone who has done basic training on personalities or psychology knows there are several personality types and the key to getting best performance whether on a corporate room or team is working with all types.

The great Phil Jackson, considered a hippy knew this in the 90s working with a highly emotional and sensitive Dennis Rodman. Its much more common knowledge now than then.

Really good point, Jay. I would add to that list Wayne Bennett. There was a real chance that Lattrell Mitchell could have had a really underwhelming year after what happened over the end of last year and pre season. He is a great player, but the type that needs the cuddle to get the best out of him. Bennett has a reputation for working with all personality types, and Mitchell was happy and performing really well up until his injury. I bet Trent Robinson knows how to work with different personality types as well. To be fair to Madge, I think he is growing in this area as well. I'm expecting another 80 minute performance this week against Souths.
 
Well if Packer’s foot is so bad that he can’t manage a sunny afternoon at Brookvale maybe he can be medically retired and we can be rid of him and get some cap back🤞
 
Very disappointing from three guys (two of which are senior players,) to up and walk out on their team mates. Even if you weren't required to be there, if you have made the decision to turn up, you stick it out with your team. It shows a complete indifference toward the club and their team mates. You wouldn't want to be in the trenches with people like that.

Attempting to rationalise their behaviour with fans walking out early is not an excuse, nor is it comparable.

I would hope that the board and CEO come down on them like a tonne of bricks this week. MCK will likely not be here at the end of the year anyway so he probably won't care.
 
@TigerWest said in [Packer & Reynolds](/post/1225154) said:
@fibrodreaming said in [Packer & Reynolds](/post/1225149) said:
@Chaos said in [Packer & Reynolds](/post/1225144) said:
At the end of the day, I just wonder how the other players feel about this?
On them grounds, the whole team
Unity could potentially be compromised if not dealt with properly.
I’m appalled that the guys left.

I think unity can be damaged when you have players like Packer, our highest paid forward, contributing nothing to the team, while others like Eisenhuth, on a small contract, are having a dig each week. To top it off, Eisenhuth has been told to look after himself because we may not be able to offer him a deal for 2021.

So we keep Packer and put Eisenhuth, as well as keeping JRey and punt Benji.

That can't be good for morale.


But they are on contracts, nothing we can do about it, I am sure all players know how it works.
Maybe Packers foot is playing up again?
Just on Eisenhuth, Taylor and McIntyre I thought we lifted noticeably when they came on, admittedly they were fresh, but they played there role well. I hope we keep them all.

On Packer, I don’t believe he went home from a sore foot, I think he may be trying to avoid some of the fallout if that’s what he is actually saying.
I think Packer left for the same reason the other 2 left, for what ever reason that may have been.
 
@TigerWest said in [Packer & Reynolds](/post/1225154) said:
Just on Eisenhuth, Taylor and McIntyre I thought we lifted noticeably when they came on, admittedly they were fresh, but they played there role well. I hope we keep them all.


They all should be retained. They do their jobs.
 
@TigerWest said in [Packer & Reynolds](/post/1225154) said:
@fibrodreaming said in [Packer & Reynolds](/post/1225149) said:
@Chaos said in [Packer & Reynolds](/post/1225144) said:
At the end of the day, I just wonder how the other players feel about this?
On them grounds, the whole team
Unity could potentially be compromised if not dealt with properly.
I’m appalled that the guys left.

I think unity can be damaged when you have players like Packer, our highest paid forward, contributing nothing to the team, while others like Eisenhuth, on a small contract, are having a dig each week. To top it off, Eisenhuth has been told to look after himself because we may not be able to offer him a deal for 2021.

So we keep Packer and put Eisenhuth, as well as keeping JRey and punt Benji.

That can't be good for morale.


But they are on contracts, nothing we can do about it, I am sure all players know how it works.
Maybe Packers foot is playing up again?
Just on Eisenhuth, Taylor and McIntyre I thought we lifted noticeably when they came on, admittedly they were fresh, but they played there role well. I hope we keep them all.

Agree - Eiso, Taylor and McIntyre worked really hard. Taylor gets knocked on this forum for being a plodder, but do people realise how much work he gets through? I watched him closely on the weekend. In one set I saw him make a tackle, sprint back into line and then make the next two. This sort of commitment in defence gave us the chance to work back into the game.
 
@Krammy said in [Packer & Reynolds](/post/1225168) said:
Taylor gets knocked on this forum for being a plodder, but do people realise how much work he gets through?

He consistently makes his tackles and takes hard hit-ups as well. I really hope we retain him.
 
Did none of you learn from the 'Joey walkout to Canberra' that wasn't a walkout.

This is media sensationalism and you're falling for it hook line and sinker. Maybe wait till the club has it's proper say on the matter rather than taking the word of these scummy donut head journos...

If they did in fact leave early then so be it. Everyone knows these 2 aren't in the clubs long term plans, and both have been actively shopped around all year. They're surplus to requirements.

My only disappointment is that they didn't do anything worthy of contract termination. Maybe they should of stopped by the strippos on the way back then gotten into a fight in front of a kebab shop. Only for it all to be caught on camera... can only dream of such a scenario
 
@Earl said in [Packer & Reynolds](/post/1225171) said:
@Krammy said in [Packer & Reynolds](/post/1225168) said:
Taylor gets knocked on this forum for being a plodder, but do people realise how much work he gets through?

He consistently makes his tackles and takes hard hit-ups as well. I really hope we retain him.

Taylor, McIntyre really tightened our middle. Eisenhuth worked overtime. Other forwards need to improve tavkling techniques.
 
To offload a player, another club needs to think the player in question is a step up for them.,

Josh would be great in England.
 
@Aesopian said in [Packer & Reynolds](/post/1225174) said:
Did none of you mongs learn from the 'Joey walkout to Canberra' that wasn't a walkout.

This is media sensationalism and you're falling for it hook line and sinker. Maybe wait till the club has it's proper say on the matter rather than taking the word of these scummy donut head journos...

If they did in fact leave early then so be it. Everyone knows these 2 aren't in the clubs long term plans, and both have been actively shopped around all year. They're surplus to requirements.

My only disappointment is that they didn't do anything worthy of contract termination. Maybe they should of stopped by the strippos on the way back then gotten into a fight in front of a kebab shop. Only for it all to be caught on camera... can only dream of such a scenario

I don't agree with this sentiment. Sure we'd like to get rid of them. Sure the media have caused an issue.

At the same time these guys should have stayed. They are highly paid and should be doing everything they can to get into the top team.
 
@pawsandclaws1 said in [Packer & Reynolds](/post/1225175) said:
@Earl said in [Packer & Reynolds](/post/1225171) said:
@Krammy said in [Packer & Reynolds](/post/1225168) said:
Taylor gets knocked on this forum for being a plodder, but do people realise how much work he gets through?

He consistently makes his tackles and takes hard hit-ups as well. I really hope we retain him.

Taylor, McIntyre really tightened our middle. Eisenhuth worked overtime. Other forwards need to improve tavkling techniques.

With 28 spots Taylor does not make the cut better investing in youth ... McIntye ?.. Huth depends who the club could bring in !
 
@Aesopian said in [Packer & Reynolds](/post/1225151) said:
Constantly driving home the “Madge is the problem narrative”, “Angst in the ranks” nonsense.

I get the impression that no one is taking this stuff seriously.

I particularly had to laugh at this quote from the Chammas article:

"But in a strong message to the players, some of whom are privately questioning whether he is in fact the right man to lead them out of a decade-long finals slumber......".

I think Chammas has got this around the wrong way.

It is not the players who are questioning Madge's ability to get them to the finals; it is the coach who is questioning the players' ability to make the finals.

That is why around 50% of the current squad will not be with the club beyond next season.

The reason for the discontent is clear.
 
@Snake said in [Packer & Reynolds](/post/1225180) said:
@pawsandclaws1 said in [Packer & Reynolds](/post/1225175) said:
@Earl said in [Packer & Reynolds](/post/1225171) said:
@Krammy said in [Packer & Reynolds](/post/1225168) said:
Taylor gets knocked on this forum for being a plodder, but do people realise how much work he gets through?

He consistently makes his tackles and takes hard hit-ups as well. I really hope we retain him.

Taylor, McIntyre really tightened our middle. Eisenhuth worked overtime. Other forwards need to improve tavkling techniques.

With 28 spots Taylor does not make the cut better investing in youth ... McIntye ?.. Huth depends who the club could bring in !

Hopefully Taylor gets a start elsewhere.
 
@Krammy said in [Packer & Reynolds](/post/1225158) said:
@Jay said in [Packer & Reynolds](/post/1225116) said:
@Pbulk said in [Packer & Reynolds](/post/1225097) said:
Tigers to re-sign Maguire but Reynolds, Packer drama highlights issues

By Michael Chammas

The Wests Tigers are moving to silence the deafening noise surrounding the tenure of their coach, set to hand Michael Maguire a one year contract extension despite more cause for concern emerging on Sunday.

A week of conjecture around the coach's relationship with his players ended with revelations out-of-favour duo Josh Reynolds and Russell Packer left Saturday night's game against Manly at half time.

When contacted by the Herald on Sunday night, Reynolds declined to comment. However sources close to the club said Reynolds, whose behaviour was out of character given his reputation as the ultimate team player, was privately fuming over suggestions that he walked out because he couldn't handle the cold.

The five-eighth, despite being told to find a new home on half a dozen occasions, wasn't required to attend the match but turned up to support his teammates, before leaving at half time.

"It's not a good look for two of our players to leave at half time," chairman Lee Hagipantelis told the Herald.

"Strictly speaking, they weren't required to be there. Russell had to warm up with the team as 19th man but Josh didn't even warm up with the team. Both players have acknowledged their action creates a perception, but perception is not reality.

"I have spoken to both of them and they've acknowledge it wasn't a good look. There was no intention on their part to show disrespect or a lack of unity. Russell suffers from an arthritic condition and had multiple surgeries in his foot to try and help him play again. Sitting there in the cold does affect him, that is true."

The players' inability to see out the match in the stands reflects poorly, but again highlights the disconnect that the club wants addressed in the offseason when it sits down with Maguire to map out its plan for the future.

The Wests Tigers has been a revolving door of coaches in recent years and the club is determined to make sure Maguire isn't added to the list, with the former South Sydney premiership-winning mentor to be given an extension on his contract despite already being locked in at the joint venture until the end of 2021.

It's an incredible show of faith when you consider the noise surrounding Maguire's tenure at the club. The murmurs of discontent in the playing ranks keep bubbling along, not to mention the fact the Tigers are likely to miss the finals for a second straight year under his watch despite a miraculous come-from-behind win against Manly on Saturday night.

The Tigers would be well within their rights to sit back and see how next year unfolds before making a decision. That's the safe play considering he still has another year to run on his deal and, to put it bluntly, rival clubs are not exactly lining up for his services.

But in a strong message to the players, some of whom are privately questioning whether he is in fact the right man to lead them out of a decade-long finals slumber, the board and executives will in the coming months add another year to Maguire's incumbency.

The Tigers and, for the large part, their success-starved fans, believe Maguire is the right man. They are behind his no-nonsense approach and want him to add a hard edge to a club long regarded for its soft underbelly.

They also know where there's smoke, there's fire. The issue involving Packer and Reynolds is evidence of that. Packer and Reynolds didn't break any rules when they left the game. Some of their teammates who weren't playing didn't even show up at all, but it's a bad look nonetheless.

The players must take responsibility for their poor choices, but there's also an onus on Maguire to evolve in the off-season and address some of the issues with his coaching style that has affected his relationship with several players at his last two clubs.

There's a misconception that the issues arise from how hard Maguire trains his players, that they can't stomach his military-like regime. The real problem stems around his communication skills, and a feeling he avoids the tough conversations.

Like when he asked Benji Marshall and Robbie Farah to approach Moses Mbye about stepping away from the captaincy last year, instead of having the conversation himself. Or, just last week, when he struggled to tell Marshall he wasn't required in 2021, asking the veteran playmaker to "give him 24 hours" despite already reaching a decision with the club he wasn't part of their plans going forward.

Maguire has the runs on the board. No one is questioning his rugby league IQ or his ability to prepare a football team. But a generational transition in players has prompted debate over how compatible his philosophies are with the modern-day footballer.

**It was evident last year in how he handled Ryan Matterson, a player who came to the club from the Sydney Roosters with a reputation for requiring a cuddle - or three - to get the best out of him.** Maguire is from a different school. The type that brings baseball bats and boa constrictors into dressing rooms to get his point across. Mollycoddling delicate footballers is not in his nature.

The Tigers possess a roster built by Ivan Cleary with personalities that suit an Ivan Cleary-coached team. Maguire will get his team in 2022, when the salary cap frees up in the first season of his forthcoming extension, but what he does between now and then will have a huge impact on whether he can attract Maguire-type footballers to the club.

Tigers powerbrokers know the club is not in a position to let quality footballers walk out the door, or turn players off joining, if it can be avoided by the coach learning to relate on a different level. Sometimes a teaspoon of cement isn't the only remedy.

There is a genuine point there, anyone who has done basic training on personalities or psychology knows there are several personality types and the key to getting best performance whether on a corporate room or team is working with all types.

The great Phil Jackson, considered a hippy knew this in the 90s working with a highly emotional and sensitive Dennis Rodman. Its much more common knowledge now than then.

Really good point, Jay. I would add to that list Wayne Bennett. There was a real chance that Lattrell Mitchell could have had a really underwhelming year after what happened over the end of last year and pre season. He is a great player, but the type that needs the cuddle to get the best out of him. Bennett has a reputation for working with all personality types, and Mitchell was happy and performing really well up until his injury. I bet Trent Robinson knows how to work with different personality types as well. To be fair to Madge, I think he is growing in this area as well. I'm expecting another 80 minute performance this week against Souths.

Exactly. That's why those guys will be coaching a long time. At the moment Maguire is looking like a guy who will lay the foundation for positive change but not be there to see the results. This job has the possibility of really harming his career.

Interesting that Chammas mentions Matterson. and you bring up Mitchell. Not greatly missed by their previous teammates.
 
Can anybody explain how Madge can be mad enough to bring baseball bats and snakes to the changeroom but why he needs Benji and Robbie to have "difficult" conversations for him. Is he a psycho or a coward? Psycho coward maybe?

The leak in the hull is getting bigger and it's not very subtle when Benji gets two roles I the story.... victim and saviour. Not saying it is Benji, but certainly someone sympathetic to him.
 
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