Pascoe sanctioned by the NRL

[Lauren]

Posted this in the Who do we offload?thread over a week ago, to highlight the severity of the punishment. There's no way people can say the overall penalties handed down aren't harsh.

Yes it might be a bit of a relief knowing we have the option to request the club be allowed to spread out the cap penalty, however it’s still pretty harsh given the circumstances.
If you look at the most notable cap breaches in NRL history we’ve been penalised $300k less than Melb were but over $300k more than Parra. The club whose sanction with the closest similarities to ours is Manly - 2 club officials banned- yet their fine was still $600k less than ours.
So if you consider why we’ve been sanctioned in comparison to those 3 teams, I feel we’ve been very hard done by.

https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/National_Rugby_League_salary_cap
Melbourne season 2010
The Melbourne Storm salary cap breach was a gross breach of salary cap over a period of five years. The NRL's discovery of these breaches in 2010 resulted in the Storm being fined a record $1.689 million, stripped of the 2007 and 2009 premierships, the 2006, 2007 and 2009 minor premierships and the 2010 World Club Challenge, and ordering them to play for zero points, effectively sentencing them to finish the 2010 NRL season (of which 75% was still to be played) with the wooden spoon.
Paramatta Eels season 2016
Main article: Parramatta Eels salary cap breach
The Parramatta Eels were fined $1 million and stripped of their 2016 NRL Auckland Nines title after they were found to be over the salary cap by over $500,000\. They were also stripped of the 12 competition points they had earned so far. They were not allowed to earn any further points until they fell back under the cap.
Manly-Warringah Sea Eagles season 2018
In 2018, Manly were fined $750,000 and two of the club's officials received 12 month bans after The NRL found that they had breached the salary cap over the previous five seasons. The breaches involve 15 players over five years, totalling $1.5 million. Unlike Parramatta and other teams who have breached the salary cap, Manly did not receive any competition points deduction.

I think Manly got of very lightly but the other 2 lost competition points and the Storm lost Premierships, we have been punished nowhere near as harshly as those 2 teams.

…and we certainly shouldn't be either.

I'm not sure what point you're trying to make but you're comparing apples and oranges in making it.
We pretty much all accept that there was some sort of wrongdoing and we should be punished accordingly. Most of us are merely questioning how the NRL have calculated the imposed penalties.

 

[cochise]

Posted this in the Who do we offload?thread over a week ago, to highlight the severity of the punishment. There's no way people can say the overall penalties handed down aren't harsh.

Yes it might be a bit of a relief knowing we have the option to request the club be allowed to spread out the cap penalty, however it’s still pretty harsh given the circumstances.
If you look at the most notable cap breaches in NRL history we’ve been penalised $300k less than Melb were but over $300k more than Parra. The club whose sanction with the closest similarities to ours is Manly - 2 club officials banned- yet their fine was still $600k less than ours.
So if you consider why we’ve been sanctioned in comparison to those 3 teams, I feel we’ve been very hard done by.

https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/National_Rugby_League_salary_cap
Melbourne season 2010
The Melbourne Storm salary cap breach was a gross breach of salary cap over a period of five years. The NRL's discovery of these breaches in 2010 resulted in the Storm being fined a record $1.689 million, stripped of the 2007 and 2009 premierships, the 2006, 2007 and 2009 minor premierships and the 2010 World Club Challenge, and ordering them to play for zero points, effectively sentencing them to finish the 2010 NRL season (of which 75% was still to be played) with the wooden spoon.
Paramatta Eels season 2016
Main article: Parramatta Eels salary cap breach
The Parramatta Eels were fined $1 million and stripped of their 2016 NRL Auckland Nines title after they were found to be over the salary cap by over $500,000\. They were also stripped of the 12 competition points they had earned so far. They were not allowed to earn any further points until they fell back under the cap.
Manly-Warringah Sea Eagles season 2018
In 2018, Manly were fined $750,000 and two of the club's officials received 12 month bans after The NRL found that they had breached the salary cap over the previous five seasons. The breaches involve 15 players over five years, totalling $1.5 million. Unlike Parramatta and other teams who have breached the salary cap, Manly did not receive any competition points deduction.

I think Manly got of very lightly but the other 2 lost competition points and the Storm lost Premierships, we have been punished nowhere near as harshly as those 2 teams.

…and we certainly shouldn't be either.

I'm not sure what point you're trying to make but you're comparing apples and oranges in making it.
We pretty much all accept that there was some sort of wrongdoing and we should be punished accordingly. Most of us are merely questioning how the NRL have calculated the imposed penalties.

You raised the comparison of the other clubs?
we have not been punished anywhere near as harshly as Parra and the Storm. I think if we made a mistake than the punishment is excessive but if we knowingly cheated than it is about right, with the fine maybe being a little too high.

 

[Lauren]

Posted this in the Who do we offload?thread over a week ago, to highlight the severity of the punishment. There's no way people can say the overall penalties handed down aren't harsh.

I think Manly got of very lightly but the other 2 lost competition points and the Storm lost Premierships, we have been punished nowhere near as harshly as those 2 teams.

…and we certainly shouldn't be either.

I'm not sure what point you're trying to make but you're comparing apples and oranges in making it.
We pretty much all accept that there was some sort of wrongdoing and we should be punished accordingly. Most of us are merely questioning how the NRL have calculated the imposed penalties.

You raised the comparison of the other clubs?
we have not been punished anywhere near as harshly as Parra and the Storm. I think if we made a mistake than the punishment is excessive but if we knowingly cheated than it is about right, with the fine maybe being a little too high.

Just spotted your other post.
Yes I initially used as some kind of gauge for the penalties and also to demonstrate the degree of seriousness of breaches (from each club) ** I indicate it's to look at financial penalties ** but you only keep using the facts to validate your argument that our fine isn't as severe as theirs - when our cases aren't even comparable.

I think cheating always deserves to be punished and the uniqueness of each case makes it hard to assess. But I can't agree ours is in the same scope as the mentioned clubs or that the NRL is unbiased and shows any consistency.
Sadly, the NRL have only helped create a culture where it's become a disadvantage not to cheat.

Edit: FYI I'm not stating that I think we should cheat but rather the reality of the cheating culture of the NRL. The whole Roosters, Broncos etc., vs the rest of us.

 

[cochise]

I think Manly got of very lightly but the other 2 lost competition points and the Storm lost Premierships, we have been punished nowhere near as harshly as those 2 teams.

…and we certainly shouldn't be either.

I'm not sure what point you're trying to make but you're comparing apples and oranges in making it.
We pretty much all accept that there was some sort of wrongdoing and we should be punished accordingly. Most of us are merely questioning how the NRL have calculated the imposed penalties.

You raised the comparison of the other clubs?
we have not been punished anywhere near as harshly as Parra and the Storm. I think if we made a mistake than the punishment is excessive but if we knowingly cheated than it is about right, with the fine maybe being a little too high.

Just spotted your other post.
Yes I initially used as some kind of gauge for the penalties and also to demonstrate the degree of seriousness of breaches (from each club) ** I indicate it's to look at financial penalties ** but you keep using the facts only to validate that our fine isn't as severe, when our cases aren't even comparable.

I think cheating always deserves to be punished and the uniqueness of each case makes it hard to assess. But I can't agree ours is in the same scope as the mentioned clubs or that the NRL is unbiased and shows any consistency.
Sadly, the NRL have only helped create a culture where it's become a disadvantage not to cheat.

Edit: FYI I'm not stating that I think we should cheat but rather the reality of the cheating culture of the NRL. The whole Roosters, Broncos etc., vs the rest of us.

Fines are not a major deterrent when talking about salary cap breaches, the real deterrent is competition points. That's where our punishment differs greatly from the others.

To be honest I have always been critical of the punishments the NRL handed out for the salary cap breaches. I'm not going to be hypercritical, now that they are starting to beef up the consequences, just because it was my team that was caught. I think if we have purposefully cheated the cap then the penalty fits and hope to see this be the benchmark moving forward. If it turns out this was an admin error than I think we have been punished too harshly and would expect the punishment to be downgraded.

 

[sheer64]

You dont cheat the cap unless it is for an on-field advantage. You dont have to be Einstein to work that out. To call us cheats shows the level of intelligence Greenberg and his cronies have. He is on borrowed time.

 

[cochise]

You dont cheat the cap unless it is for an on-field advantage. You dont have to be Einstein to work that out. To call us cheats shows the level of intelligence Greenberg and his cronies have. He is on borrowed time.

Who has said we didn't get an on field advantage?

 

[kiwitiger]

This one:
https://www.smh.com.au/national/nsw/obeid-link-to-tigers-under-the-spotlight-20130106-2cb6k.html

I did like the part about a $2 company owned by Benny's brother winning the contract, bit.
Wonder if that would crack too?

 

[sheer64]

You dont cheat the cap unless it is for an on-field advantage. You dont have to be Einstein to work that out. To call us cheats shows the level of intelligence Greenberg and his cronies have. He is on borrowed time.

Who has said we didn't get an on field advantage?

Well enlighten me. And Our club has been pretty consistent in stating this!

 

[cochise]

You dont cheat the cap unless it is for an on-field advantage. You dont have to be Einstein to work that out. To call us cheats shows the level of intelligence Greenberg and his cronies have. He is on borrowed time.

Who has said we didn't get an on field advantage?

Well enlighten me. And Our club has been pretty consistent in stating this!

The coach wanted a player gone, after this role was organised he left, which also saved rhe club at least $200k in Salary cap space. Very easy for the NRL to argue an advantage.

The other benefit the NRL could be argued is that he returned to the club in 2019.

 

[JD Tiger]

You dont cheat the cap unless it is for an on-field advantage. You dont have to be Einstein to work that out. To call us cheats shows the level of intelligence Greenberg and his cronies have. He is on borrowed time.

Who has said we didn't get an on field advantage?

Well enlighten me. And Our club has been pretty consistent in stating this!

The coach wanted a player gone, after this role was organised he left, which also saved rhe club at least $200k in Salary cap space. Very easy for the NRL to argue an advantage.

The other benefit the NRL could be argued is that he returned to the club in 2019.

I don't see that as an advantage at all. We paid $750k for a player to play against us. Really it was a huge mess, and there was no advantage to us there. The fact that he returned a couple of years later, has no relevance to him leaving us a few years earlier and potentially being offered a contract back then after he retired.

It's all mute though. It doesn't matter what I think, there's no way the NRL will change their mind. A court battle is the only way we might get a different outcome here, but even that may only impact upon the de-registering of Pascoe. I don't think an external court can change the salary cap penalty, or even the fine. I still advocate for that path, just on principle, but I can't see this ending well.

 

[cochise]

Who has said we didn't get an on field advantage?

Well enlighten me. And Our club has been pretty consistent in stating this!

The coach wanted a player gone, after this role was organised he left, which also saved rhe club at least $200k in Salary cap space. Very easy for the NRL to argue an advantage.

The other benefit the NRL could be argued is that he returned to the club in 2019.

I don't see that as an advantage at all. We paid $750k for a player to play against us. Really it was a huge mess, and there was no advantage to us there. The fact that he returned a couple of years later, has no relevance to him leaving us a few years earlier and potentially being offered a contract back then after he retired.

It's all mute though. It doesn't matter what I think, there's no way the NRL will change their mind. A court battle is the only way we might get a different outcome here, but even that may only impact upon the de-registering of Pascoe. I don't think an external court can change the salary cap penalty, or even the fine. I still advocate for that path, just on principle, but I can't see this ending well.

Of course its an advantage, the coach didn't want him.

 

[Telltails]

Well enlighten me. And Our club has been pretty consistent in stating this!

The coach wanted a player gone, after this role was organised he left, which also saved rhe club at least $200k in Salary cap space. Very easy for the NRL to argue an advantage.

The other benefit the NRL could be argued is that he returned to the club in 2019.

I don't see that as an advantage at all. We paid $750k for a player to play against us. Really it was a huge mess, and there was no advantage to us there. The fact that he returned a couple of years later, has no relevance to him leaving us a few years earlier and potentially being offered a contract back then after he retired.

It's all mute though. It doesn't matter what I think, there's no way the NRL will change their mind. A court battle is the only way we might get a different outcome here, but even that may only impact upon the de-registering of Pascoe. I don't think an external court can change the salary cap penalty, or even the fine. I still advocate for that path, just on principle, but I can't see this ending well.

Of course its an advantage, the coach didn't want him.

Nothing JT wanted was advantageous to us. He let Tapau go to get Ballin to force Farah out, so we could pay two hookers not to play for us!
There was absolutely no advantage to us we would have been far better off seeing out his contract. Pascoe entered into it, after the damage was already done and still we continue to pay the price.

 

[cochise]

The coach wanted a player gone, after this role was organised he left, which also saved rhe club at least $200k in Salary cap space. Very easy for the NRL to argue an advantage.

The other benefit the NRL could be argued is that he returned to the club in 2019.

I don't see that as an advantage at all. We paid $750k for a player to play against us. Really it was a huge mess, and there was no advantage to us there. The fact that he returned a couple of years later, has no relevance to him leaving us a few years earlier and potentially being offered a contract back then after he retired.

It's all mute though. It doesn't matter what I think, there's no way the NRL will change their mind. A court battle is the only way we might get a different outcome here, but even that may only impact upon the de-registering of Pascoe. I don't think an external court can change the salary cap penalty, or even the fine. I still advocate for that path, just on principle, but I can't see this ending well.

Of course its an advantage, the coach didn't want him.

Nothing JT wanted was advantageous to us. He let Tapau go to get Ballin to force Farah out, so we could pay two hookers not to play for us!
There was absolutely no advantage to us we would have been far better off seeing out his contract. Pascoe entered into it, after the damage was already done and still we continue to pay the price.

I don't disagree about JT, but it appears the Tigers covered a TPA that Farah was set to lose to get him to leave which gets the "advantage" that JT wanted.

 

[sheer64]

You dont cheat the cap unless it is for an on-field advantage. You dont have to be Einstein to work that out. To call us cheats shows the level of intelligence Greenberg and his cronies have. He is on borrowed time.

Who has said we didn't get an on field advantage?

Well enlighten me. And Our club has been pretty consistent in stating this!

The coach wanted a player gone, after this role was organised he left, which also saved rhe club at least $200k in Salary cap space. Very easy for the NRL to argue an advantage.

The other benefit the NRL could be argued is that he returned to the club in 2019.

Suppose he signed with the Rabbits before the role was organised would you still argue that? And it cost us $750,000 out of our cap to move him on.

Well if Robbie stands up in court and testifies that his return to the Tigers was purely based on reigniting his passion to play and he accepted the contract offer as per say, what is the NRL's barrister going to do stand up and call out liar liar pants on fire?

 

[Geo]

They wont be going to court..geeez…

 

[Snake]

They wont be going to court..geeez…

This is why the WestsTigers will always be the flushable wipes of the NRL!

 

[Telltails]

A bit sad in this day and age that the general consensus is that challenging the NRL is pointless. Says alot in itself about what is wrong about the game.

 

[jadtiger]

A bit sad in this day and age that the general consensus is that challenging the NRL is pointless. Says alot in itself about what is wrong about the game.

100%.Supporters from the majority of clubs can see the inequities between the rorters/drongos/drizzle and the different way the NRL treat them and the way the majority of the other clubs are .Never has rugby league been in such incapable hands as what we have now.

 

[Russell]

They wont be going to court..geeez…

Well, that is a shame Geo. We will get no justice from the NRL.

We might as well close the place down - save us a lot of angst over the next few years.

If they don't take the NRL to court and threaten to spill the beans (I'am sure Pascoe would know a lot of what is going on - what has he got to lose).

NO court - we lose BIG TIME!

 

[GNR4LIFE]

Spill what beans?