Perrottet vs PVL

[Spartan117]

I can deal.with the NSW government holding back as a result of the recent disasters.

 

[jirskyr]

PVL may have a point in the sense that NRL has a written contact. He also has a point that the funds are not just going towards 'building stadiums' but also towards community engagement and creating 'high performance centres' in the suburban grounds.

Cool.

What he fails to understand is that Rugby League isn't just a business. He wants sponsors and the Govt to pour money in it but isn't able to see the bigger picture. He can still get what he wants without making threats and coming out so strongly. In fact, with the investment in the Hotel in Brisbane and this, it makes ARL look money hungry rather than wanting to contribute towards the community. Everyone wants more money invested in Grassroots but he prefers to pour millions in long-term investments to increase the ARL portfolio.

Coming out so strongly is wrong on all accounts. In fact, I feel this is close to sackable. It is completely ignorant of the community Rugby League is supposed to represent. Rugby League isn't a sport or a sports business, it's a representation of the entire community and to hold the Govt hostage over this and coming out so strongly is wrong on all accounts.

I think you are wrong on this.

Firstly PVL knows exactly what he is doing and has a well-documented career of putting private and public media pressure on governments to drive outcomes for his employer. You might not agree with him, but he's good at it, and the politicians are definitely afraid of him.

Secondly, Vlandys represents the ARLC and it is in their interests for the government to refurbish local stadia, which is the NRL's preference (vs a single-cost redevelopment of Homebush). So it makes sense the PVL lobbies hard on this one, and in fairness to him, he had a deal with the NSW Govt that they are trying to renege. PVL is not trying to win a popularity contest, he's trying to turn the screws on the NSW Govt, who are in a bad position themselves at this time with scandals and facing an upcoming election.

It's all well and good to point at schools or roads or hospitals or floods and say "surely the money can be better spent there", but imagine if the NSW Govt made a habit of reneging on deals to their own budgetary discretion each year (or the incumbent govt preferences). Nobody would deal with the govt, who are still neck-deep in many extremely large infrastructure projects.

And for example NSW Govt is already paying penalties on the scrapped or adjusted agreements, e.g. the payout to the Randwick Light Rail constructor (costing $576M).

Lastly everyone seems to overlook the "investment" argument about stadia, and rugby league in general, in that NRL drives taxes and revenues for the government. There's a very specific reason QLD would be keen to bid on more Grand Finals, and it's not because of an inherent passion for rugby league. It's because Origin, finals, prominent fixtures are money-makers for the local city, including taxes on revenues (tickets, merch, food sales, transport) plus tourism / visitor expenditure.

I do understand the argument of spending several hundred million on hospitals, for example, but they are money pits - the money goes in and you'll never see it again. You could give the hospitals near infinite money and they'd still ask for more funding.

Spending on stadia is not just a community service, it's an investment that can bring a financial return by the events hosted by that stadium.

For example Leichhardt, you can complain about the NRL, but LO is used far more often for local and small-level community sport than it is for NRL. It's not even owned by the NRL, it's owner by the Inner West Council, who would directly benefit from the funding injection.

 

[tig_prmz]

I think you are wrong on this.

Firstly PVL knows exactly what he is doing and has a well-documented career of putting private and public media pressure on governments to drive outcomes for his employer. You might not agree with him, but he's good at it, and the politicians are definitely afraid of him.

Secondly, Vlandys represents the ARLC and it is in their interests for the government to refurbish local stadia, which is the NRL's preference (vs a single-cost redevelopment of Homebush). So it makes sense the PVL lobbies hard on this one, and in fairness to him, he had a deal with the NSW Govt that they are trying to renege. PVL is not trying to win a popularity contest, he's trying to turn the screws on the NSW Govt, who are in a bad position themselves at this time with scandals and facing an upcoming election.

It's all well and good to point at schools or roads or hospitals or floods and say "surely the money can be better spent there", but imagine if the NSW Govt made a habit of reneging on deals to their own budgetary discretion each year (or the incumbent govt preferences). Nobody would deal with the govt, who are still neck-deep in many extremely large infrastructure projects.

And for example NSW Govt is already paying penalties on the scrapped or adjusted agreements, e.g. the payout to the Randwick Light Rail constructor (costing $576M).

Lastly everyone seems to overlook the "investment" argument about stadia, and rugby league in general, in that NRL drives taxes and revenues for the government. There's a very specific reason QLD would be keen to bid on more Grand Finals, and it's not because of an inherent passion for rugby league. It's because Origin, finals, prominent fixtures are money-makers for the local city, including taxes on revenues (tickets, merch, food sales, transport) plus tourism / visitor expenditure.

I do understand the argument of spending several hundred million on hospitals, for example, but they are money pits - the money goes in and you'll never see it again. You could give the hospitals near infinite money and they'd still ask for more funding.

Spending on stadia is not just a community service, it's an investment that can bring a financial return by the events hosted by that stadium.

For example Leichhardt, you can complain about the NRL, but LO is used far more often for local and small-level community sport than it is for NRL. It's not even owned by the NRL, it's owner by the Inner West Council, who would directly benefit from the funding injection.

There's an evergreen battle between investing and getting returns on your investments. You nor I nor PVL knows the financial state of the state, you have to take the Govt's word for it. This is about the public's perception of Rugby League. ARL isn't just a business, it's a representation of the community.

Essentially what it has become is flood victims vs Stadium. PVL is a $$ man and he doesn't care about how he is perceived. Racing has always been a $$ and betting business but Rugby League isn't that, it's a common man's game. You ask 100 rugby league supporters where they want the funds spent and they'll say they want it to go to hospitals, flood victims and League grassroots.

Right now in this climate is not the right time to be upgrading stadia, no matter what the contracts specify. However, that is my opinion but what isn't up for debate is that putting public pressure like this has made it League Stadium vs hospitals/flood victims. It is an incredibly poor representation of the community that he allegedly represents.

 

[LeichhardtTiger]

I think you are wrong on this.

Firstly PVL knows exactly what he is doing and has a well-documented career of putting private and public media pressure on governments to drive outcomes for his employer. You might not agree with him, but he's good at it, and the politicians are definitely afraid of him.

Secondly, Vlandys represents the ARLC and it is in their interests for the government to refurbish local stadia, which is the NRL's preference (vs a single-cost redevelopment of Homebush). So it makes sense the PVL lobbies hard on this one, and in fairness to him, he had a deal with the NSW Govt that they are trying to renege. PVL is not trying to win a popularity contest, he's trying to turn the screws on the NSW Govt, who are in a bad position themselves at this time with scandals and facing an upcoming election.

It's all well and good to point at schools or roads or hospitals or floods and say "surely the money can be better spent there", but imagine if the NSW Govt made a habit of reneging on deals to their own budgetary discretion each year (or the incumbent govt preferences). Nobody would deal with the govt, who are still neck-deep in many extremely large infrastructure projects.

And for example NSW Govt is already paying penalties on the scrapped or adjusted agreements, e.g. the payout to the Randwick Light Rail constructor (costing $576M).

Lastly everyone seems to overlook the "investment" argument about stadia, and rugby league in general, in that NRL drives taxes and revenues for the government. There's a very specific reason QLD would be keen to bid on more Grand Finals, and it's not because of an inherent passion for rugby league. It's because Origin, finals, prominent fixtures are money-makers for the local city, including taxes on revenues (tickets, merch, food sales, transport) plus tourism / visitor expenditure.

I do understand the argument of spending several hundred million on hospitals, for example, but they are money pits - the money goes in and you'll never see it again. You could give the hospitals near infinite money and they'd still ask for more funding.

Spending on stadia is not just a community service, it's an investment that can bring a financial return by the events hosted by that stadium.

For example Leichhardt, you can complain about the NRL, but LO is used far more often for local and small-level community sport than it is for NRL. It's not even owned by the NRL, it's owner by the Inner West Council, who would directly benefit from the funding injection.

Our current politicians are all pathetic. They have absolutely no interest in our society. They are quite simply self-centered. Tony Abbott was the last decent politician simply because he meant what he said and tried to repair Australia. As we have seen since the Rudd /Gillard garbage followed by the Turnbull takeover and the Morrison Mess, these BS artists have not improved our lot. That's politics. Meanwhile, the corporate rubbish turns our Nation into a cancel culture basket case. Manly posted an LGBTIQ etc jerseys during the Women in League round WTF was that all about? Some claim it was to disrupt the WT anger over the Cowboys rort. But the reality is that the Manly thing destroys Women representation in League cos it highlights [This word has been automatically removed]s instead of women in the league.

 

[The SHADOW]

You get votes on promises.
You get sacked for lyin.
You get what you deserve

www.nsw.gov.noclue.au

 

[Bula]

As Fitzsimons wrote in the SMH, if you stood on the top of Centrepoint looking for places to spend public money, NRL grounds would not be flashing red.

 

[jirskyr]

There's an evergreen battle between investing and getting returns on your investments. You nor I nor PVL knows the financial state of the state, you have to take the Govt's word for it. This is about the public's perception of Rugby League. ARL isn't just a business, it's a representation of the community.

Essentially what it has become is flood victims vs Stadium. PVL is a $$ man and he doesn't care about how he is perceived. Racing has always been a $$ and betting business but Rugby League isn't that, it's a common man's game. You ask 100 rugby league supporters where they want the funds spent and they'll say they want it to go to hospitals, flood victims and League grassroots.

Right now in this climate is not the right time to be upgrading stadia, no matter what the contracts specify. However, that is my opinion but what isn't up for debate is that putting public pressure like this has made it League Stadium vs hospitals/flood victims. It is an incredibly poor representation of the community that he allegedly represents.

As I always say - why not both? So there is no budget for stadia because "floods"?

 

[jirskyr]

Our current politicians are all pathetic. They have absolutely no interest in our society. They are quite simply self-centered. Tony Abbott was the last decent politician simply because he meant what he said and tried to repair Australia. As we have seen since the Rudd /Gillard garbage followed by the Turnbull takeover and the Morrison Mess, these BS artists have not improved our lot. That's politics. Meanwhile, the corporate rubbish turns our Nation into a cancel culture basket case. Manly posted an LGBTIQ etc jerseys during the Women in League round WTF was that all about? Some claim it was to disrupt the WT anger over the Cowboys rort. But the reality is that the Manly thing destroys Women representation in League cos it highlights [This word has been automatically removed]s instead of women in the league.

I do not agree with any of this.

 

[The SHADOW]

As I always say - why not both? So there is no budget for stadia because "floods"?

Are you saying
because floods are becoming the norm, so after we build Penrith no more stadiums.
How about all grounds bar Penrith , get an upgrade. They can spend their money more wisely, just ask the residents in the area. Fix flood prone areas or a $500 million stadium. Prices have gone up .

If not it must be me.
You are 100% correct .

 

[tig_prmz]

As I always say - why not both? So there is no budget for stadia because "floods"?

That's a very minimalist approach to a complex problem. PVL has no right to tell NSW where to use the funds.

 

[Jedi_Tiger]

As Fitzsimons wrote in the SMH, if you stood on the top of Centrepoint looking for places to spend public money, NRL grounds would not be flashing red.

ah yes good old Pete fitzsimon, not biased much is old bandana Pete
Doesn't like rugby league or horse racing so understandably not a fan of PVL

 

[twentyforty]

That's a very minimalist approach to a complex problem. PVL has no right to tell NSW where to use the funds.

He is not doing that though, is he? He is asking the NSW government to honour their heads of agreement contract.

 

[jirskyr]

Are you saying
because floods are becoming the norm, so after we build Penrith no more stadiums.
How about all grounds bar Penrith , get an upgrade. They can spend their money more wisely, just ask the residents in the area. Fix flood prone areas or a $500 million stadium. Prices have gone up .

If not it must be me.
You are 100% correct .

What I am saying is that the Govt has to spend many billions of dollars in many thousands of areas, and everyone always has their hands out, all the time. By default that is how government works.

It is not so straight forward as "dollars here OR dollars there, but not both".

The NSW Govt promised funding for stadia. This is legitimately necessary; they are all aging facilities owned by the NSW Govt (or local councils). It's also a political move - always is - to placate both the NRL and voters: "build the shiny new thing in the swing seat".

Is there any coincidence at all that Penrith stadium, built in 1967 (and redeveloped twice since, in the 1980s and 2000s), is scheduled to be rebuilt, whilst it also happening to be the (former) deputy leader and (former) Sports Minister's home seat? Is the Liberal Govt not at all interested in winning votes in Western Sydney?

Leichhardt Oval on the other hand - not developed since 1974. Used widely not just by NRL but all other forms of rectangle-field sports - junior rugby league, A-League, lower-grade soccer. Leichhardt being a Labor / Greens stronghold.

So there is clearly money available for stadia, and you need to spend money to keep them (a) functioning to a basic level, and (b) somewhat modernised to ensure continued suitability.

So yeah there are floods, always have been floods and bushfires, and possibly they will get worse due to climate change. So you budget for those. But you don't stop spending money on infrastructure because there have otherwise been natural disasters - I don't think we are that far gone that we have to cancel all the roads, the new railways and light rails, the stadia plans etc.

Given, then, that the budget is a huge complicated thing and everyone wants a hand-out, and nobody quite agrees how that money should be spent, you can only go back to agreements made by the Govt in earlier budgets.

The NSW Govt agreed, in writing, to make certain upgrades to their own stadia and the NRL sought that assurance for their ongoing operations. The NRL made commercial commitments based on guarantees provided by the NSW Govt. It is not the NRL's fault that there were floods, it's not he NRL's fault that Perrottet's govt has committed huge self-inflicted gaffes that have them putting out political fires everywhere.

No, the NSW Govt reneged on a deal and the NRL/ARLC are complaining about it with the only tools they have - media pressure and legal agreements. I think that's an entirely reasonable thing to do. PVL is not employed to sympathise with flood victims, he is employed to get the best possible outcome for the ARLC (who are responsible for all rugby league in Australia).

 

[jirskyr]

ah yes good old Pete fitzsimon, not biased much is old bandana Pete
Doesn't like rugby league or horse racing so understandably not a fan of PVL

I look forward to the day that rugby needs a bail-out because their finances are so dire, and the NSW Govt refuses... and Peter Fitz acknowledges that the money should be better spent on hospitals.

 

[The SHADOW]

What I am saying is that the Govt has to spend many billions of dollars in many thousands of areas, and everyone always has their hands out, all the time. By default that is how government works.

It is not so straight forward as "dollars here OR dollars there, but not both".

The NSW Govt promised funding for stadia. This is legitimately necessary; they are all aging facilities owned by the NSW Govt (or local councils). It's also a political move - always is - to placate both the NRL and voters: "build the shiny new thing in the swing seat".

Is there any coincidence at all that Penrith stadium, built in 1967 (and redeveloped twice since, in the 1980s and 2000s), is scheduled to be rebuilt, whilst it also happening to be the (former) deputy leader and (former) Sports Minister's home seat? Is the Liberal Govt not at all interested in winning votes in Western Sydney?

Leichhardt Oval on the other hand - not developed since 1974. Used widely not just by NRL but all other forms of rectangle-field sports - junior rugby league, A-League, lower-grade soccer. Leichhardt being a Labor / Greens stronghold.

So there is clearly money available for stadia, and you need to spend money to keep them (a) functioning to a basic level, and (b) somewhat modernised to ensure continued suitability.

So yeah there are floods, always have been floods and bushfires, and possibly they will get worse due to climate change. So you budget for those. But you don't stop spending money on infrastructure because there have otherwise been natural disasters - I don't think we are that far gone that we have to cancel all the roads, the new railways and light rails, the stadia plans etc.

Given, then, that the budget is a huge complicated thing and everyone wants a hand-out, and nobody quite agrees how that money should be spent, you can only go back to agreements made by the Govt in earlier budgets.

The NSW Govt agreed, in writing, to make certain upgrades to their own stadia and the NRL sought that assurance for their ongoing operations. The NRL made commercial commitments based on guarantees provided by the NSW Govt. It is not the NRL's fault that there were floods, it's not he NRL's fault that Perrottet's govt has committed huge self-inflicted gaffes that have them putting out political fires everywhere.

No, the NSW Govt reneged on a deal and the NRL/ARLC are complaining about it with the only tools they have - media pressure and legal agreements. I think that's an entirely reasonable thing to do. PVL is not employed to sympathise with flood victims, he is employed to get the best possible outcome for the ARLC (who are responsible for all rugby league in Australia).

Wow you are really good and write well. I hope I come across like that.🎯

 

[jirskyr]

He is not doing that though, is he? He is asking the NSW government to honour their heads of agreement contract.

Exactly.

You don't have to like PVL to understand he is just doing his job and trying to pressure the Govt into spending the money they already promised they would.

NRL is a business; they live and die by these Govt commitments. Learn the lesson of Balmain Leagues Club who went under because the former Labor Govt made commitments to the Rozelle Light Rail, informed Balmain to vacate the premises, then cancelled the project ($500M down the toilet) and prevented Balmain from getting back into their own property.

I truly do look forward to the fantasy utopia where self-interest groups are not constantly badgering the government for money, and where politicians need do nothing except develop and implement policies of government, rather than spend most of their time winning popularity contests in the media and dodging / weaving through the political quagmire.

 

[Cultured_Bogan]

I look forward to the day that rugby needs a bail-out because their finances are so dire, and the NSW Govt refuses... and Peter Fitz acknowledges that the money should be better spent on hospitals.

He's fine with it, the Waratahs already got their new home ground. Keeping in check with that Toff attitude of pulling up that ladder up behind you.

 

[twentyforty]

Exactly.

You don't have to like PVL to understand he is just doing his job and trying to pressure the Govt into spending the money they already promised they would.

NRL is a business; they live and die by these Govt commitments. Learn the lesson of Balmain Leagues Club who went under because the former Labor Govt made commitments to the Rozelle Light Rail, informed Balmain to vacate the premises, then cancelled the project ($500M down the toilet) and prevented Balmain from getting back into their own property.

I truly do look forward to the fantasy utopia where self-interest groups are not constantly badgering the government for money, and where politicians need do nothing except develop and implement policies of government, rather than spend most of their time winning popularity contests in the media and dodging / weaving through the political quagmire.

Agree, it’s too much hard work dealing with the political motivations which underpin the decision making.
I applaud PVL for his stance on this issue and can understand his frustration. I hope he doesn’t move the GF to QLD regardless if the QLD government subsidises to break even point or more. I want the 80k GF audience to reflect on the renege at full time.

 

[tig_prmz]

Exactly.

You don't have to like PVL to understand he is just doing his job and trying to pressure the Govt into spending the money they already promised they would.

NRL is a business; they live and die by these Govt commitments. Learn the lesson of Balmain Leagues Club who went under because the former Labor Govt made commitments to the Rozelle Light Rail, informed Balmain to vacate the premises, then cancelled the project ($500M down the toilet) and prevented Balmain from getting back into their own property.

I truly do look forward to the fantasy utopia where self-interest groups are not constantly badgering the government for money, and where politicians need do nothing except develop and implement policies of government, rather than spend most of their time winning popularity contests in the media and dodging / weaving through the political quagmire.

I understand he's running a business. What he wants isn't wrong, I don't agree with it but the way he's going about it is wrong.

He thinks he's doing the best by the business but he doesn't understand why this "business" exists in the first place. Brookvale, Leichhardt, Penrith and Newcastle residents would rather want the funds allocated to the stadia be used at RNS, RPA or Blacktown Hospitals.

Almost no one wants $800m spent on stadium other than PVL. He is holding the Govt hostage for a deal that was made a while ago and then PVL himself wanted to change the deal to make it be used for suburban grounds.

The ARL exists because of community support and a lot of funding from the State and Federal Govt. I know it's a two way street in that NRL contributes a lot to the State as well, but making an enemy of the State for trying to do the right thing for the majority of the state is wrong.

It would be different is these funds were allocated to Grassroots, if the funds were allocated to teaching Rugby League in Schools, to conduct coaching clinics for Junior Rep teams but upgrading the Stadium when Allianz, ANZ and SCG have already been upgraded is just wrong.

He's saying he wants to do it for the community, but he isn't listening to the community - and what's worse is that he's doing it in an arrogant and brash manner.

Wrong on all accounts.

 

[Jedi_Tiger]

He's fine with it, the Waratahs already got their new home ground. Keeping in check with that Toff attitude of pulling up that ladder up behind you.

Fitzsimons is a typical SMH w$%ker complete with his bandana and leather patches on his coat
Deadset flog