Politics Super Thread - keep it all in here

[Chris]

Listening to Tony Abbott on the radio I cant help but feel this guy is soft. If Peter Costello was leader, he'd have Gillard and Rudd in the fetal position by now. Abbott has such a huge opportunity to get on the front foot and go town on the Labor party and so far I've heard nothing.

 

[Yossarian]

By the same token Chris, if Keating or even Beazley were PM Abbott would have never lasted this long.

 

[Chris]

Keating and Beazley aren't as brain dead as Gillard and Rudd. Just seems that the Government is brain and dead and the opposition is soft. This country is in a world of trouble.

 

[Gary_Bakerloo]

I think you are being a bit unkind to Mitch Brown mate to compare him to Swan. The thing about Swan was part of the 'gang of 4' that conceptualized all the failed policy over the last few years. e.g. The overpriced halls that do nothing to increase output, the batts that killed people etc. He has made plenty of mistakes. Including $2billion out on overoptimistic projections recently.

Pumping heaps of cash into the economy, with low unemployment, has also triggered wage inflation. Our Mining companies can't get staff because people are laying pipes for the NBN, or still building a halls in schools. Hence our interest rates. There is arguments that could be weighed against how much was spent, was it necessary? was it used productively to reduce future budgetary burdens (i.e. boomers)? I think they spent too much and on the wrong things. School Halls aren't going to help us when the boomers retire, but new Australian made medical equipment and hospitals would have. Or how about a handout that had to be spent on education? learning a new skill? rather than imported TV's from China.

… and it still keeps coming. The latest spending is maternity leave for Parents. It's spending for spending's sake and it puts a further burden on businesses when they don't need it. I sometimes wonder if they want places to continue closing down. Unions, Inflation... not to mention an ETS in a shaky economy.

There is a reason why people are fearful now. Nothing labor has done has been inspiring or even well thought through. All we have is a massive debt. Each and every one of us now has to pay back now and quickly. We have a lot of tough times ahead with the boomers.

Labor have just thrown a lot of cash around because they could. Any monkey, even the worlds best, can do that.

Against the backdrop of the biggest slump in world GDP since the early 1930's, Australia has the following characteristics:

- Lowest public debt in developed world on a ratio to GDP
- Lowest unemployment in the developed world
- Inflation under control
- Solid banking system

Not all of these items is the responsibility of the current government, but they have continued the good work of Keating and Costello.

To say all we have is a massive debt displays complete ignorance of economics and a lack of appreciation of the current economic climate. It is just rhetoric straight from the Hockey hymn sheet and is complete nonsense. If they didn't act as they did, we could possibly have unemployment of 7% which quite possibly would result in the government having to take on more debt down the track.

 

[hammertime]

Against the backdrop of the biggest slump in world GDP since the early 1930's, Australia has the following characteristics:

- Lowest public debt in developed world on a ratio to GDP
- Lowest unemployment in the developed world
- Inflation under control
- Solid banking system

Not all of these items is the responsibility of the current government, but they have continued the good work of Keating and Costello.

To say all we have is a massive debt displays complete ignorance of economics and a lack of appreciation of the current economic climate. It is just rhetoric straight from the Hockey hymn sheet and is complete nonsense. If they didn't act as they did, we could possibly have unemployment of 7% which quite possibly would result in the government having to take on more debt down the track.

Gary, by taking Australia and comparing it to other countries is a ridiculous measure of performance. All it says is, I'm not as bad as those guys. They have robbed 5 banks, but I've only robbed 1\. You also forget that we had a surplus budget and cash reserves before this.

I work in a Hedge Fund, studied finance and worked on the federal budget. I do not have a complete lack of economic knowledge.

I have an appreciation for the economic climate, believe me, and with our economy being tied heavily to China, the approach could have been phased or at the very least, forward thinking. Miners are still screaming out for staff, but we have them working on halls and the NBN.

The policies that were done were flawed to the extent of killing people and wasting billions. A primary kid analyzing the policy could have known about the risks of foil insulation and mandated that it don't be used in a scenario that was meant to encourage untrained people outside the industry to do these installations. That's just one. Don't get me started on the lack of any benefit from the BER. Now we are having tax summits to work out our Boomer issues, which could have been reduced then and there!!!!

Our banking system has nothing to do with the current climate. I know that Swan was on the phone, in a conference call to JP Morgan after the collapse and he had no clue. We still have a largely unregulated swaps market and Labor have not seized on the once in a lifetime opportunity to create a government asset from nothing. All they needed to do was move Swaps and all derivatives on an exchange so that they are settled like futures. Possible GFC fixed.

If you think it's purely from Keating, you are a fool. There was a massive debt, both on and off balance sheet. Costello an Howard strengthened ties with china and ensured our ports could dramatically increase production. Do you know how much exposed liability that Labor left off balance sheet that was paid off in the past 10 years?

 

[hammertime]

By the same token Chris, if Keating or even Beazley were PM Abbott would have never lasted this long.

Agree Yoss. I really wish Turnbull would take over. Abbott isn't the answer.

 

[Gary_Bakerloo]

If you think it's purely from Keating, you are a fool.

\

Not all of these items is the responsibility of the current government, but they have continued the good work of Keating and Costello.

I am happy you don't think I am a fool.

 

[Yossarian]

By the same token Chris, if Keating or even Beazley were PM Abbott would have never lasted this long.

Agree Yoss. I really wish Turnbull would take over. Abbott isn't the answer.

Really? I thought Malcolm would be a bit left for you. Turnbull mark II would be interesting. On one hand he seems to attract support from both sides (he seems quite popular with ALP voters) but on the other hand he favours policies that are quite similar to what the Libs have spent considerable time (and to good effect) belting Julia on. Carbon Tax is the main game now and MT is a supporter is he not?

 

[hammertime]

By the same token Chris, if Keating or even Beazley were PM Abbott would have never lasted this long.

Agree Yoss. I really wish Turnbull would take over. Abbott isn't the answer.

Really? I thought Malcolm would be a bit left for you. Turnbull mark II would be interesting. On one hand he seems to attract support from both sides (he seems quite popular with ALP voters) but on the other hand he favours policies that are quite similar to what the Libs have spent considerable time (and to good effect) belting Julia on. Carbon Tax is the main game now and MT is a supporter is he not?

haha, I like to think of myself in the center Yoss. I actually completely agree with an ETS, just disagree with the timing and the wealth distribution in it. The world is really teetering on the edge. It's not the time to increase the costs of goods. It just needs to be delayed until we are in the clear.

Malcolm is a self made man. His intentions are honorable, maybe a little egotistical, but he definitely would make Australia a more competitive place.

I like someone who has run a business successfully and therefore will only create policy that is fair and efficient. He has already proposed a inter-generational equality council which shows he is concerned about the future of this country, not short term political gain.

you wouldn't maybe jump sides in Malcolm rose to power Yoss?

 

[Chris]

I think you are being a bit unkind to Mitch Brown mate to compare him to Swan. The thing about Swan was part of the 'gang of 4' that conceptualized all the failed policy over the last few years. e.g. The overpriced halls that do nothing to increase output, the batts that killed people etc. He has made plenty of mistakes. Including $2billion out on overoptimistic projections recently.

Pumping heaps of cash into the economy, with low unemployment, has also triggered wage inflation. Our Mining companies can't get staff because people are laying pipes for the NBN, or still building a halls in schools. Hence our interest rates. There is arguments that could be weighed against how much was spent, was it necessary? was it used productively to reduce future budgetary burdens (i.e. boomers)? I think they spent too much and on the wrong things. School Halls aren't going to help us when the boomers retire, but new Australian made medical equipment and hospitals would have. Or how about a handout that had to be spent on education? learning a new skill? rather than imported TV's from China.

… and it still keeps coming. The latest spending is maternity leave for Parents. It's spending for spending's sake and it puts a further burden on businesses when they don't need it. I sometimes wonder if they want places to continue closing down. Unions, Inflation... not to mention an ETS in a shaky economy.

There is a reason why people are fearful now. Nothing labor has done has been inspiring or even well thought through. All we have is a massive debt. Each and every one of us now has to pay back now and quickly. We have a lot of tough times ahead with the boomers.

Labor have just thrown a lot of cash around because they could. Any monkey, even the worlds best, can do that.

Against the backdrop of the biggest slump in world GDP since the early 1930's, Australia has the following characteristics:

- Lowest public debt in developed world on a ratio to GDP
- Lowest unemployment in the developed world
- Inflation under control
- Solid banking system

Not all of these items is the responsibility of the current government, but they have continued the good work of Keating and Costello.

To say all we have is a massive debt displays complete ignorance of economics and a lack of appreciation of the current economic climate. It is just rhetoric straight from the Hockey hymn sheet and is complete nonsense. If they didn't act as they did, we could possibly have unemployment of 7% which quite possibly would result in the government having to take on more debt down the track.

Our financial position wont be that strong when they roll out $75b for the NBN that really isn't needed.

 

[Cultured_Bogan]

By the same token Chris, if Keating or even Beazley were PM Abbott would have never lasted this long.

Agree Yoss. I really wish Turnbull would take over. Abbott isn't the answer.

Really? I thought Malcolm would be a bit left for you. Turnbull mark II would be interesting. On one hand he seems to attract support from both sides (he seems quite popular with ALP voters) but on the other hand he favours policies that are quite similar to what the Libs have spent considerable time (and to good effect) belting Julia on. Carbon Tax is the main game now and MT is a supporter is he not?

From the outside looking in, Turnbull would have a better grasp on economic and social issues/responsibilities. He should never have been ousted in the first place. Had he led the Libs at the last election, Labor would have been rolled.

Turnbull appears more socially progressive than most of the other Libs as well. Was he ever given a real opportunity to propose a model for the Carbon Tax before he got knifed? I also find him to be a very likable bloke, unlike Abbott who seems like he polarises the electorate at every turn.

 

[Yossarian]

By the same token Chris, if Keating or even Beazley were PM Abbott would have never lasted this long.

Agree Yoss. I really wish Turnbull would take over. Abbott isn't the answer.

Really? I thought Malcolm would be a bit left for you. Turnbull mark II would be interesting. On one hand he seems to attract support from both sides (he seems quite popular with ALP voters) but on the other hand he favours policies that are quite similar to what the Libs have spent considerable time (and to good effect) belting Julia on. Carbon Tax is the main game now and MT is a supporter is he not?

haha, I like to think of myself in the center Yoss. I actually completely agree with an ETS, just disagree with the timing and the wealth distribution in it. The world is really teetering on the edge. It's not the time to increase the costs of goods. It just needs to be delayed until we are in the clear.

Malcolm is a self made man. His intentions are honorable, maybe a little egotistical, but he definitely would make Australia a more competitive place.

I like someone who has run a business successfully and therefore will only create policy that is fair and efficient. He has already proposed a inter-generational equality council which shows he is concerned about the future of this country, not short term political gain.

you wouldn't maybe jump sides in Malcolm rose to power Yoss?

You're possibly right about the timing. As for MT, I don't know if I could ever bring myself to vote Liberal but I would certainly prefer a Turnbull-led Lib government than an Abbott-led one! Maybe the time is right for Malcolm to launch a new centrist party!!

 

[hammertime]

You're possibly right about the timing. As for MT, I don't know if I could ever bring myself to vote Liberal but I would certainly prefer a Turnbull-led Lib government than an Abbott-led one! Maybe the time is right for Malcolm to launch a new centrist party!!

Mate, totally! A third party at the moment would romp it in. Just look how many votes are going to Bob Brown - you know things are dire when the Greens get into double digits.

If only the democrats were still around as a legitimate party.

 

[stryker]

The worst thing that came out of the election was that Brown became a main player. The bloke is a dillusional lunatic…now with power.

 

[hammertime]

The worst thing that came out of the election was that Brown became a main player. The bloke is a dillusional lunatic…now with power.

I have no idea how he got a Doctorate. I think someone should check it's not one of those ones just printed out online.

 

[Yossarian]

The worst thing that came out of the election was that Brown became a main player. The bloke is a dillusional lunatic…now with power.

I have no idea how he got a Doctorate. I think someone should check it's not one of those ones just printed out online.

He's a medical doctor right? I believe he was a GP on the mainland before he went south. I seem to recall him being one of those docs who graffitied the smoking billboards.

 

[Cultured_Bogan]

You're possibly right about the timing. As for MT, I don't know if I could ever bring myself to vote Liberal but I would certainly prefer a Turnbull-led Lib government than an Abbott-led one! Maybe the time is right for Malcolm to launch a new centrist party!!

Mate, totally! A third party at the moment would romp it in. Just look how many votes are going to Bob Brown - you know things are dire when the Greens get into double digits.

If only the democrats were still around as a legitimate party.

He'd have my vote.

 

[hammertime]

The police are still pursing this guy. Any thoughts on Thompson? do you think he would already be gone if his vote wasn't as integral to holding the balance of power?

http://www.news.com.au/national/nervous-wait-for-embattled-labor-mp-craig-thomson/story-e6frfkvr-1226163452957

 

[Yossarian]

Hammer I think he has a lot of explaining to do. Would he be gone by now in other times? Most likely he would have been eased out of the seat - at the end of the day nothing has really been proven yet. What is unsettling is the pressure some federal Coalition members have been placing on the state A-G to investigate the claims. To me that seems inappropriate.

And why is it we rarely get stories about Mary Jo Fisher?

 

[cunno]

The police are still pursing this guy. Any thoughts on Thompson? do you think he would already be gone if his vote wasn't as integral to holding the balance of power?

http://www.news.com.au/national/nervous-wait-for-embattled-labor-mp-craig-thomson/story-e6frfkvr-1226163452957

Interesting question Hammer, as far as I am aware he hasn't been charged with any wrong doing at this point so he is presumed innocent. Politics is a bit different though, they cut people when it suits regardless of charges or not, it's as much about public perceptions and bad publicity in politics than fact. If we didn't have a minority government I think he would have been cut lose.
The comment about the need for a 3rd major political party has merit imo the current two choices don't have much going for them.