Politics Super Thread - keep it all in here

[happy_tiger]

Rather than use germany, why not look at the *** hole greece is in right now. They are unable to spend because their debts are at astronomical levels due to structural issues (early retirements, low taxes, black market transactions etc.) and so they have to cut spending. BAD move when you're already doing crap, so now they're doing even worse.

And as for private school funding, you realise only around 60% of aussie kids go to public schools right? Like I see where you're coming from but those parents, although wealthy, are still paying taxes so they should get something back in terms of education i reckon.

Well there's nothing stopping them sending their kids to a public school. Once they decide to for over 20k 40k or whatever then I don't think they need government support.

The schools you're referring to have minimal government funding. About 10-15% of what public schools get.

And you can bet the public system would collapse if every parent sent their kids to public schools. Those parents are taking a bucket load of pressure off the public system and the government. Instead of paying 10-11k per student, the govenrment only has to pay 1-2k.

Catholic schools have <5k fees usually and so NEED more funding from the government obviously.

Other problem Catholic schools have is if parents don't pay their school fees there isn't a great deal they can do

My kids go to a Catholic School and it is in the poo for about 50 k every mid semester That's is approximately 15-20 % of attendees not paying fees

 

[hammertime]

Rather than use germany, why not look at the *** hole greece is in right now. They are unable to spend because their debts are at astronomical levels due to structural issues (early retirements, low taxes, black market transactions etc.) and so they have to cut spending. BAD move when you're already doing crap, so now they're doing even worse.

And as for private school funding, you realise only around 60% of aussie kids go to public schools right? Like I see where you're coming from but those parents, although wealthy, are still paying taxes so they should get something back in terms of education i reckon.

Well there's nothing stopping them sending their kids to a public school. Once they decide to for over 20k 40k or whatever then I don't think they need government support.

As soon as you take it to that level of attack against the tax payers of the country, their kids education, you are going to see them pack up and take not only their taxes, but maybe also take their company overseas.

15% sounds much better than 46%, with everything means tested.

 

[Winnipeg]

The problem is definitely inter-generational. Another problem is even though the Howard government left a Balance Sheet in the black, this position only came from selling a good chunk of our gold reserves and the public cash cow by the name of Telstra. Sadly though, the real legacy was that we were deeply in the red in other areas, with pensioners desperately in need of a rise, and a huge deficit in infrastructure due to basically neglecting it for more than a decade.

Together with the loss of continual payments from Telstra, the Tax cuts for the higher brackets towards the end of their term has left a big hole in revenue. The incoming Rudd government made a terrible error of judgement in not cutting the final round of those cuts and more of the middle-class welfare, particularly as the GFC had already hit the world soon after they were elected.

Yes, this is exactly right.

Cutting income tax while mining was carrying a disproportionate share of the tax burden, and now here we are.

Meanwhile George Brandis has been busy engaging in some classic labor rorts, I mean liberal rorts

http://www.smh.com.au/federal-politics/ministers-claimed-costs-for-wedding-trip-20130928-2ul6a.html

I wonder what Peter slipper is thinking, presumably 'I might have gotten away with it if I'd just stolen a little bit more'

:unamused:

 

[Yossarian]

Rather than use germany, why not look at the *** hole greece is in right now. They are unable to spend because their debts are at astronomical levels due to structural issues (early retirements, low taxes, black market transactions etc.) and so they have to cut spending. BAD move when you're already doing crap, so now they're doing even worse.

And as for private school funding, you realise only around 60% of aussie kids go to public schools right? Like I see where you're coming from but those parents, although wealthy, are still paying taxes so they should get something back in terms of education i reckon.

Well there's nothing stopping them sending their kids to a public school. Once they decide to for over 20k 40k or whatever then I don't think they need government support.

As soon as you take it to that level of attack against the tax payers of the country, their kids education, you are going to see them pack up and take not only their taxes, but maybe also take their company overseas.

15% sounds much better than 46%, with everything means tested.

You seriously think parents who send their kids to Kings really care about government funding? Enough with the "sky is going to fall" rubbish - the election is over. Wealthy private schools don't need government support and suggesting that the threat of a few morons packing up and heading overseas should be a compelling case if crazy. Where are they going to go anyway? How many countries fund those sort of schools anyway?

 

[Yossarian]

Rather than use germany, why not look at the *** hole greece is in right now. They are unable to spend because their debts are at astronomical levels due to structural issues (early retirements, low taxes, black market transactions etc.) and so they have to cut spending. BAD move when you're already doing crap, so now they're doing even worse.

And as for private school funding, you realise only around 60% of aussie kids go to public schools right? Like I see where you're coming from but those parents, although wealthy, are still paying taxes so they should get something back in terms of education i reckon.

Well there's nothing stopping them sending their kids to a public school. Once they decide to for over 20k 40k or whatever then I don't think they need government support.

The schools you're referring to have minimal government funding. About 10-15% of what public schools get.

And you can bet the public system would collapse if every parent sent their kids to public schools. Those parents are taking a bucket load of pressure off the public system and the government. Instead of paying 10-11k per student, the govenrment only has to pay 1-2k.

Catholic schools have <5k fees usually and so NEED more funding from the government obviously.

Of course they don't receive as much - the average public system parent doesn't have 40k to drop so the government needs to provide the funding for infrastructure (basic I mean - no rifle ranges or indoor aquatic centres at most of them).

Let's be clear though - withdrawing government funding from schools like Abbotsleigh and Barker will not make a rats backside of difference to their enrollment levels. There will always be a market for wealthy people to send their kids to schools that have better facilities and better staffing. The suggestion that they're going to send their kids to the nearest public school is nonsense.

By the way I am talking about schools that charge over 10k for a school year. I am not talking about systemic Catholic schools or smaller private schools. Having said that, some of the "building fees" some Catholic schools ask for is a rort given that a great deal of it doesn't go to the school itself.

 

[hammertime]

Rather than use germany, why not look at the *** hole greece is in right now. They are unable to spend because their debts are at astronomical levels due to structural issues (early retirements, low taxes, black market transactions etc.) and so they have to cut spending. BAD move when you're already doing crap, so now they're doing even worse.

And as for private school funding, you realise only around 60% of aussie kids go to public schools right? Like I see where you're coming from but those parents, although wealthy, are still paying taxes so they should get something back in terms of education i reckon.

Well there's nothing stopping them sending their kids to a public school. Once they decide to for over 20k 40k or whatever then I don't think they need government support.

As soon as you take it to that level of attack against the tax payers of the country, their kids education, you are going to see them pack up and take not only their taxes, but maybe also take their company overseas.

15% sounds much better than 46%, with everything means tested.

You seriously think parents who send their kids to Kings really care about government funding? Enough with the "sky is going to fall" rubbish - the election is over. Wealthy private schools don't need government support and suggesting that the threat of a few morons packing up and heading overseas should be a compelling case if crazy. Where are they going to go anyway? How many countries fund those sort of schools anyway?

It's not the 'sky is going to fall" rubbish. It's that you expect that on one hand you collect revenue on a increasing basis making higher paid people pay more, but then want to hit them hard again on the expenditure side for basic stuff like their kids education. Fair enough nearly every other policy is means tested, but education?!

If you pillage them to the point where our bankers and lawyers move to HK or Singapore (And believe me, i'm in banking, they just need a reason) then it's simple maths to work out that your 'savings measure' may actually cost money by either having people move, or incentivising them enough to try to skirt paying tax.

At the end of the day, tt's not about the amount, it's about giving a little bit of gratitude and respect to people who work the long hours and studied hard in their life.

 

[Anthism]

Well there's nothing stopping them sending their kids to a public school. Once they decide to for over 20k 40k or whatever then I don't think they need government support.

As soon as you take it to that level of attack against the tax payers of the country, their kids education, you are going to see them pack up and take not only their taxes, but maybe also take their company overseas.

15% sounds much better than 46%, with everything means tested.

You seriously think parents who send their kids to Kings really care about government funding? Enough with the "sky is going to fall" rubbish - the election is over. Wealthy private schools don't need government support and suggesting that the threat of a few morons packing up and heading overseas should be a compelling case if crazy. Where are they going to go anyway? How many countries fund those sort of schools anyway?

It's not the 'sky is going to fall" rubbish. It's that you expect that on one hand you collect revenue on a increasing basis making higher paid people pay more, but then want to hit them hard again on the expenditure side for basic stuff like their kids education. Fair enough nearly every other policy is means tested, but education?!

If you pillage them to the point where our bankers and lawyers move to HK or Singapore (And believe me, i'm in banking, they just need a reason) then it's simple maths to work out that your 'savings measure' may actually cost money by either having people move, or incentivising them enough to try to skirt paying tax.

At the end of the day, tt's not about the amount, it's about giving a little bit of gratitude and respect to people who work the long hours and studied hard in their life.

Sounds like such a hard life….
There is no way they need extra funding from the government. Out of the 8 GPS schools in Sydney only 3 are in the top 20 in the HSC at best. How can you justify Scots having a sports science centre when other schools struggle with basic funding and infrastructure.

_Posted using RoarFEED 2013_

 

[hammertime]

Sounds like such a hard life….
There is no way they need extra funding from the government. Out of the 8 GPS schools in Sydney only 3 are in the top 20 in the HSC at best. How can you justify Scots having a sports science centre when other schools struggle with basic funding and infrastructure.

_Posted using RoarFEED 2013_

It is. Most Lawyers, Doctors and Bankers work 60-80 hr weeks and are on call for the rest. People who make the right decisions in life, by working hard and making sacrifcies, deserve what ever good comes their way.

These people already contribute ALOT. How much more do you want until you are satisified? Maybe you should take 90% of their income and make them pay for their own healthcare? Or then you might want another 5%..

This country will lose our competitiveness if we keep neutralising the benefits of success.

 

[Tiger_Watto]

I've been hearing this argument many times leading into and after the election…

Why is everyone so focused on ensuring that those that have worked hard over the years should be forced to pay more and receive nothing?

So many are fearful of the old adage of 'the rich get richer, while the poor get poorer', but nobody see's it for how it is in many cases, 'those that have more, may have worked hard and should be able to reap the rewards of there hard work'.

_Posted using RoarFEED 2013_

 

[pHyR3]

It's about finding a balance between pure capitalism and taking everyone's money in taxes and not giving anything to high income earners. Obviously, things like welfare and cash handouts should be means tested, but education…. not quite as much. The amount these 'gps schools' get in gvmt funding is only 10-20% of what public schools get, but it is some kind of return for the large amounts of taxes these people have paid, and like hammertime said, the work they've put in.

Personally, I think we have just about found the balance in Australia with Gillard's recent tax cuts to low income earners (tax free threshold from 6 to 18k) although Liberal is beginning to go the other way. I would have preferred another term of Rudd because of the NBN, gay marriage and carbon trading scheme before someone, NOT abbott, could take over. Maybe Turnbull.

 

[Anthism]

Sounds like such a hard life….
There is no way they need extra funding from the government. Out of the 8 GPS schools in Sydney only 3 are in the top 20 in the HSC at best. How can you justify Scots having a sports science centre when other schools struggle with basic funding and infrastructure.

_Posted using RoarFEED 2013_

It is. Most Lawyers, Doctors and Bankers work 60-80 hr weeks and are on call for the rest. People who make the right decisions in life, by working hard and making sacrifcies, deserve what ever good comes their way.

These people already contribute ALOT. How much more do you want until you are satisified? Maybe you should take 90% of their income and make them pay for their own healthcare? Or then you might want another 5%..

This country will lose our competitiveness if we keep neutralising the benefits of success.

Their reward for working that many hours is the amount they make. That's it.
Why do their offspring deserve more luxuries.

Your last sentence sounds so elitist. How is success in life measured by whether you are a doctor or lawyer.The groups you mention are a very small minority within society, why should funding benefit them when there are disgusting inequalities on the other end of the spectrum in the majority.
Public schools being declined proper funding just so these people can have more of a reward than their salary is ridiculous. Dumbing down the school system is not going to give as many kids an opportunity to get to that stage anyway.

_Posted using RoarFEED 2013_

 

[hammertime]

Their reward for working that many hours is the amount they make. That's it.
Why do their offspring deserve more luxuries.

Your last sentence sounds so elitist. How is success in life measured by whether you are a doctor or lawyer.The groups you mention are a very small minority within society, why should funding benefit them when there are disgusting inequalities on the other end of the spectrum in the majority.
Public schools being declined proper funding just so these people can have more of a reward than their salary is ridiculous. Dumbing down the school system is not going to give as many kids an opportunity to get to that stage anyway.

_Posted using RoarFEED 2013_

A 'luxury' is not base funding for an education for their kid. It should be a basic right for all Australians. Just like base funding for health care. Then if people want to pay more, they do. It's doesn't get any more fair than that.

Sure, our schooling system will always need improvement. But come on, people fight to come to this country so their kids can have a good education. There was just $10 Billion pumped into it with new infrastructure and a lot of failings in our schools, such as bullying/safety, are societal and structural issues that aren't fixed by money.

Yes, hard working people can also be successful in other chosen professions. But usually, it's something that they get to be passionate about. Such as teaching or police work. People choose those careers because they want mental rewards over money. Therefore it's really unfair to neutralize the benefits if someone chooses to sacrifice their health and lifestyle so they can leave their kids a better life then theirs.

So, if you want equality, how about we go back to a flat tax system? If you want that, then I think it's fair you start to rip out all funding for 'wealthy' Australians. But until then, they are paying a disproportionate amount of tax and deserve to be treated somewhat equally.

 

[Winnipeg]

It's not disproportionate, it's proportionate. Australians pay historically low levels of tax at present, and among the lowest levels in the OECD. I wish everyone would stop falling for the line that we are getting gouged.

Honestly if someone is going to swap the lifestyle that living in Australia affords for living in HK or Singapore, I highly doubt education fees would be the main factor. If it is then they're slightly nutty I'd suggest.

 

[hammertime]

It's not disproportionate, it's proportionate. Australians pay historically low levels of tax at present, and among the lowest levels in the OECD. I wish everyone would stop falling for the line that we are getting gouged.

Honestly if someone is going to swap the lifestyle that living in Australia affords for living in HK or Singapore, I highly doubt education fees would be the main factor. If it is then they're slightly nutty I'd suggest.

Yes, you are right, Australians, on average, pay low tax compared to our OECD counterparts. However, our top tax rate is one of the highest. Which means the wealthy are footing a sizable portion.

That wasn't the point I was trying to make. It's that it's one thing after another. People are people, and the rich want to foot their fair share, but a relentless assault without any thought, regard or appreciation for their level of existing contribution is what will drive people away.

Attack a basic right like their kids education and you will see them weigh up their options. You want to keep the Rupert murdochs here paying tax.

 

[Saturnalia]

This tax discussion reminded me of this, feels apt

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=8nzeJrXFttg

 

[hammertime]

This tax discussion reminded me of this, feels apt

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=8nzeJrXFttg

Like the clip Sataris, sums it up perfectly.

One of the all time great shows.

 

[Demonborger]

Unearned incomes/economic rent income should be taxed highly.
Wages and income derived through actual work and personal exertion should be lowered greatly.

I'd consider taxing interest payments, the financial sector and land values. Income from personal exertion shouldn't be taxed at all imo.

Further more our government should do away with debt based fiat and just print the money into the system (along with creation of adequate assets). Then any taxation left is merely to adequately balance currency in circulation (it'd be easier and more efficient to control that than to control debt based interest rates).

Encourage production, discourage and penalise the parasites.

That way you could truly say those that work hard to be productive earn their incomes and should keep most of their labour's effort. Those who utilise privilege (not the social justice sense, the historically economic sense) should be absolutely hammered. Bye bye parasites.

Another thing that has to go is the monopoly of academic qualification certification that education institutions are given. With technology and the internet there is no way a fairly basic uni education should be costing 30k+.

So many issues and people go for the branches and never the root. Our system is meant to ration our resources efficiently for society, and yet so much time and money goes towards absolute parasites that do nothing of real value. The parasites aren't the poor bastard who can't get a start (although the calculated bludger is a small parasite).
The real parasites are things like the education/recruitment/hr axis, the financial sector (where lending is for speculation and bubble making and not to finance creation of new businesses) and the big executive government (all they should do is run public utilities that are natural monopolies to reduce base costs for everyone economy wide).

 

[happy_tiger]

Wonder what people's thoughts on Bustling Billy Shorten's selection as new Labor leader ??

 

[pHyR3]

seems okay, probably will get replaced. most new leaders of defeated parties are before election day.

 

[wtigers]

Little off topic, but how about Tony 'scumbag' Abbott saying that he would challenge Same Sex Marriage in the ACT if it passed… This man just keeps on making me vomit more and more every day...

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