Shipbuilding Osborne Naval Shipyard South Aust

[steve-o]

I ask the question below meaning no disrespect, patronisation or anything else nefarious - purely curious. When this thread started, it seemed like such a niche topic - quite honestly, my reaction was “who cares about this?”. I’ve seen through the responses though that there is plenty interest in this topic. So my question is - what’s the context of everyone’s interest in this? Are you military buffs? Have an interest in foreign policy? Manufacturing?

 

[pawsandclaws1]

I ask the question below meaning no disrespect, patronisation or anything else nefarious - purely curious. When this thread started, it seemed like such a niche topic - quite honestly, my reaction was “who cares about this?”. I’ve seen through the responses though that there is plenty interest in this topic. So my question is - what’s the context of everyone’s interest in this? Are you military buffs? Have an interest in foreign policy? Manufacturing?

I commenced the topic hoping it would spark an interest in naval shipbuilding.

There is a wonderful opportunity to become highly skilled in the naval shipbuilding trades for both men and women.

I'm sure there are parents, teachers or grandparents who wonder what their children, students or grandchildren are going to do when they leave school. Here is a great chance for them to get ahead!

On a strategic level, the shift to nuclear propulsion by Australia is seismic for the world. This will make front page news around the world and I'm sure Canada and India will be watching closely.

 

[Cultured_Bogan]

So @pawsandclaws1 what do you make of the decision to go nuclear? No brainer for mine, but not sure why we went diesel subs again to start with?

 

[coivtny]

At least the UK & US subs do not have a reverse gear like the French ones !

Ouch!

 

[coivtny]

No doubt the French will get massive pay out for doing very little. Good luck to them for stooging our boy scout pollies.

It depends on the contract and what milestones (if any) have not been met. This has been building for a while. It certainly will have China off-guard.

Apparently the new subs will be based in WA. It may see US subs based there as well.

Which port suitable? Don't know W A well.

There are already subs in WA at HMAS Stirling. My son is in the Navy and based at Stirling. He's not a submariner himself but his wife's sister is and she's based at Stirling.

 

[pawsandclaws1]

So @pawsandclaws1 what do you make of the decision to go nuclear? No brainer for mine, but not sure why we went diesel subs again to start with?

Strategically, with the distances the Collins Class travel to be on station, the move to nuclear propulsion is sound.

Also with the situation in the Asia Pacific, this decision ensures greatest capability for our Defence dollar.

There has also been a shift in US and UK Policy to share this technology with Australia.

 

[pawsandclaws1]

I neglected to mention the cynic in me acknowledges this will be highly profitable for all nations involved and the Defence industry.

Was it a Nicholas Cage movie and the line was "no matter how bad things get, someone always comes out on top".

 

[steve-o]

So two questions (made up of smaller questions)
1. Where did your interest in naval shipbuilding come from? I.e. is that your career background / have you spent time in the navy or that industry?
2. What does it mean to have nuclear-powered submarines without nuclear weapons? (I’m not asking literally what it means, but prophetically, does this put us on a path toward ignoring the nuclear nonproliferation treaty?)

 

[pawsandclaws1]

So two questions (made up of smaller questions)
1. Where did your interest in naval shipbuilding come from? I.e. is that your career background / have you spent time in the navy or that industry?
2. What does it mean to have nuclear-powered submarines without nuclear weapons? (I’m not asking literally what it means, but prophetically, does this put us on a path toward ignoring the nuclear nonproliferation treaty?)

1. I've always been fascinated by ships. I've never been a sailor and never wanted to be one. Travelling on the Manly ferry is enough for me. I am long retired from Defence.

2. I cannot answer this question. I don't believe we can assume the US would sell us nuclear weapons.

 

[Carefactor]

Great thread , one i must say i have only just noticed and didnt expect to find on a footy forum .
I was a mechanical fitter with Australian Defence Industries at Garden Island Dockyard and Support Craft Facility at Ryde. I love everything about working on the water or watercraft related things in general.

 

[pawsandclaws1]

Jacinta Ardern has announced the yet to be built Australian nuclear propelled submarines are banned from NZ waters.

 

[Tiger5150]

Jacinta Ardern has announced the yet to be built Australian nuclear propelled submarines are banned from NZ waters.

Jacinta is never shy to jump onto a zero cost opportunity to virtue signal.

If the subs are any good, she wont even know.

 

[pawsandclaws1]

Jacinta Ardern has announced the yet to be built Australian nuclear propelled submarines are banned from NZ waters.

Jacinta is never shy to jump onto a zero cost opportunity to virtue signal.

If the subs are any good, she wont even know.

I have no doubt she would be happy for NZ firms to subcontract on the build.

 

[Tiger5150]

Jacinta Ardern has announced the yet to be built Australian nuclear propelled submarines are banned from NZ waters.

Jacinta is never shy to jump onto a zero cost opportunity to virtue signal.

If the subs are any good, she wont even know.

I have no doubt she would be happy for NZ firms to subcontract on the build.

Jacinda is a gutless leader who was prepared to throw the 5 eyes intelligence alliance under the bus so as not to upset her friends in China. She is virtue signalling now because she knows that this is going to upset China and she is signalling to her friends in the CCP.

https://www.bbc.com/news/world-56970640

 

[Cultured_Bogan]

So two questions (made up of smaller questions)
1. Where did your interest in naval shipbuilding come from? I.e. is that your career background / have you spent time in the navy or that industry?
2. What does it mean to have nuclear-powered submarines without nuclear weapons? (I’m not asking literally what it means, but prophetically, does this put us on a path toward ignoring the nuclear nonproliferation treaty?)

To answer question 2, I believe that nuclear subs are quieter and can travel much further without the need to refuel. They are the immediate benefits.

The Nuclear NPT is in regard to nuclear weapons. I don't believe it bans pursuit of peaceful applications of nuclear technology (it is an interesting question in regard to nuclear propulsion on a military vessel, is that considered a peaceful nuclear application?) If it does, well we should be shutting down Lucas Heights and telling patients that their medicines are no longer available.

 

[Cultured_Bogan]

Jacinta Ardern has announced the yet to be built Australian nuclear propelled submarines are banned from NZ waters.

Jacinta is never shy to jump onto a zero cost opportunity to virtue signal.

If the subs are any good, she wont even know.

I have no doubt she would be happy for NZ firms to subcontract on the build.

I would hope that they are excluded. Why should they profit from it if we will not be able to enter their territorial waters?

 

[Tiger5150]

Jacinta Ardern has announced the yet to be built Australian nuclear propelled submarines are banned from NZ waters.

Jacinta is never shy to jump onto a zero cost opportunity to virtue signal.

If the subs are any good, she wont even know.

I have no doubt she would be happy for NZ firms to subcontract on the build.

I would hope that they are excluded. Why should they profit from it if we will not be able to enter their territorial waters?

Australia should declare that we promise not to use the submarines to enter NZ territorial waters, not even to defend NZ.

 

[Cultured_Bogan]

The one concern I do have with nuclear propulsion subs (I'm generally pro-nuclear in terms of peaceful application,) is do the RAN have the adequately qualified personnel to man these subs? Will we be sourcing American or British nuclear engineers to assist or possibly serve (not sure how that would work.)

 

[Cultured_Bogan]

Jacinta Ardern has announced the yet to be built Australian nuclear propelled submarines are banned from NZ waters.

Jacinta is never shy to jump onto a zero cost opportunity to virtue signal.

If the subs are any good, she wont even know.

I have no doubt she would be happy for NZ firms to subcontract on the build.

I would hope that they are excluded. Why should they profit from it if we will not be able to enter their territorial waters?

Australia should declare that we promise not to use the submarines to enter NZ territorial waters, not even to defend NZ.

It's not even worth responding to IMO, no one is ever going to attack NZ lol.

Interesting thought experiment, nuclear fusion is gaining traction, does NZ's non-nuclear stance apply to fusion technology? It would be foolish to abandon net gain energy generation.

 

[Tiger5150]

Jacinta Ardern has announced the yet to be built Australian nuclear propelled submarines are banned from NZ waters.

Jacinta is never shy to jump onto a zero cost opportunity to virtue signal.

If the subs are any good, she wont even know.

I have no doubt she would be happy for NZ firms to subcontract on the build.

I would hope that they are excluded. Why should they profit from it if we will not be able to enter their territorial waters?

Australia should declare that we promise not to use the submarines to enter NZ territorial waters, not even to defend NZ.

It's not even worth responding to IMO, no one is ever going to attack NZ lol.

Interesting thought experiment, nuclear fusion is gaining traction, does NZ's non-nuclear stance apply to fusion technology? It would be foolish to abandon net gain energy generation.

With Jacinda begging for China's belt and road initiative and throwing 5 eyes under the bus to save face with China, there will be no need for NZ to be attacked.

https://www.stuff.co.nz/business/300036015/nz-still-plotting-place-in-chinas-belt-and-road