Signings, Suggestions & Rumours Discussion

[westy81]

Yeah I don't think Seyfarth is big enough at the moment to be a workhorse in the middle, although he's only young.

Maybe if he developed his ball skills more he could become a ball playing 13 and be a kind of second stringer to McInness assuming we get him

Tell you who else was a work horse and not to big Liam Fulton, that’s who seyfarth reminds me of but he has yet to show his potential in game compared to Fulton who was a tackling machine back in the day

 

[AdelaideTiger]

Yeah I don't think Seyfarth is big enough at the moment to be a workhorse in the middle, although he's only young.

Maybe if he developed his ball skills more he could become a ball playing 13 and be a kind of second stringer to McInness assuming we get him

Tell you who else was a work horse and not to big Liam Fulton, that’s who seyfarth reminds me of but he has yet to show his potential in game compared to Fulton who was a tackling machine back in the day

Fulton was also a very crafty line runner, Seyfarth looks like more of an athlete with less footy nous. I would want to see how he goes in CC before giving him a shot over any of the current props/2RWs in rotation.

 

[Elderslie_Tiger]

You don't kill it in a deciding SOO game if you can't play

Grant ........Flemington straight .....Liddle

We need an upgrade in 2022 and beyond

Particularly if Liddle doesn't step up and Simpkin can't step up straight away

You are so far behind the 8 ball if you don't have a quality 9 in the modern game

The 9 position does not even rate for me this coming season as I feel this position is covered 2 x quality 9’s. I have my observations about Grant and his longevity though.

I worry about Grant's longevity as well .....but he probably has learnt a lot from that bloke in 9 who was captain ....if anyone can teach him about longevity as a 9 making 40 tackles every week for 15 + seasons it is Cam Smith

Smith's longevity can be put down to the cavalcade of brilliant players Melbourne have been unable to unearth Cronk Slater Inglis to name a few and the HUGE forwards he had around him Grant's got it all in front of him brilliant break out year courtesy of WT'S he has to back that up and get past the second year Syndrome where I dont think teams will give the latitude he got in year one it will be interesting what Madge comes up with to combat him.

 

[bigsiro]

Can someone please explain "overs" to me?

Paying players more than their market value to get them to your Club..it is however often subjective as players may be worth more to one Club depending on the need...

All about a balance..

Thanks Geo. That's what I thought.
I still find "market value" a misnomer in terms of sports contracts. I'll explain: when a good player is in a contract year they invariably test their value on the open market. A bidding war ensues with one team winning the player's services by paying more than the next team. Does this mean they paid overs? Or is this now the market value?

We can't escape the reality that we have a weak side, haven't made finals for 10 years, don't have a proper home-ground, are in the process of building training facilities, struggle with our own identity, along with a myriad of other issues.

Thus, when you add our particular subjectivity in the equation, I would say that criticizing management for considering paying overs is a rather narrow view.

 

[Blacknwhite]

Harry Grant has goooooone! Let’s move on. I hope Liddle is ready he is 24, it’s now or never. Simkins is a talent but may need another offseason before he is ready to defend in the middle for a full NRL season.

Ihope not ,or another lost superstar,becauseof the inability of the club to recognise and hold talent . Ilike Madge as a coach,but i doubt his ability in selecting talent,.

Are you serious, have you not been following how our system for recruitment now works?

What superstar have we lost or failed to hold? Grant was a loan player for last season, that was it.

And in the same sentence ..what superstar has the WT's and NZ coach signed ......

The fact is, it appears we are not prepared to pay overs for superstar players anymore, so none signed, so we will make our own.

I think the Tigers would pay overs,it just depends on the value they bring to the side.JAC and Mitchell were both offered overs but we were not succesfull .I think they will offer overs for CrIchton but not for Staggs as Kei may be just as good.

At some stage we will have to pay overs for at least one player ...as long as it is the right player ....ie a 1,6,7 or 9 or back rower who is a massive pick up ......

its fine to pay overs for the player who will take the functioning roster to the next level... it would be a tragedy to pay overs to buy a player to placate the fanbase or just to make the team competitive.

we are currently in scenario 2, and there are a handful of players in the past few decades who could single handedly turn our ship around. Cam Smith, the referee in purple, would be one of the few who fit the bill... a name 7 who could have kept Benji and Robbie in check would have helped us 10 yrs back, but at present we need our roster to gel then find the cherry to elevate us.

 

[Hangonaminute]

I heard Cam Mcinness has asked for a release to join tigers on a 4 year deal effective immediately.

Really hope this is true

How much would MacGinness be worth? As a lock $500,000 ?As a 9 $600 to $700,000.Meanwhile we have a backline without a real attacking weapon.I can't understand why every time a lock or DH comes on the market that we have to buy him.Sure i like him,but surely our backline is the main priority.

Without a quality 9 a brilliant backline means squat if the distribution is terrible. 9 is one of the most important positions in a team. Look at the teams who regularly finish top of the comp and name a bad 9? Cam McInnis no only offers you quality distribution but gives you 40-50 tackles a game at about 95% efficiency. The bloke is as tough as they come as well.

Penrith - Api
Melb - Smith
Roosters - Friend
Raiders - Hodgson/Starling if you count last season
Souths - Cook
Eels - Mahoney

Totally agree, players like McInnis are a rare breed, throw the kitchen sink at him I say.
You build clubs around these types

 

[MarySt]


i think safe to say we can put the crichton rumours to bed

 

[AdelaideTiger]


i think safe to say we can put the crichton rumours to bed

Why?

 

[Geo]

Can someone please explain "overs" to me?

Paying players more than their market value to get them to your Club..it is however often subjective as players may be worth more to one Club depending on the need...

All about a balance..

Thanks Geo. That's what I thought.
I still find "market value" a misnomer in terms of sports contracts. I'll explain: when a good player is in a contract year they invariably test their value on the open market. A bidding war ensues with one team winning the player's services by paying more than the next team. Does this mean they paid overs? Or is this now the market value?

We can't escape the reality that we have a weak side, haven't made finals for 10 years, don't have a proper home-ground, are in the process of building training facilities, struggle with our own identity, along with a myriad of other issues.

Thus, when you add our particular subjectivity in the equation, I would say that criticizing management for considering paying overs is a rather narrow view.

The real trick is to get players that perform above their pay grade...last year I'd say we had 1 in Luciano Leilua and way too many in previous seasons who simply did not...Corey Thompson was another good example when he 1st arrived here...

It is why I like the Daine Laurie signing...for what they paid ..it allows $$$ to be allocated elsewhere..

IMO Packer and Mbye for what they paid are the 2 left that are not providing value for output..

The balance is becoming much better..in discussions I've had with Adam Hartigan this will be the way forward...with recruitment and retention...Josh Aloiai is a good example..in the past previous management may well have bowed to his demands for high level Prop money..JWH, Papalii levels due to the case he was ours and the time put into his development...

To Manly for whatever reason they believe he is worth that..Wests Tigers did not..

 

[happy_tiger]

Can someone please explain "overs" to me?

Paying players more than their market value to get them to your Club..it is however often subjective as players may be worth more to one Club depending on the need...

All about a balance..

Thanks Geo. That's what I thought.
I still find "market value" a misnomer in terms of sports contracts. I'll explain: when a good player is in a contract year they invariably test their value on the open market. A bidding war ensues with one team winning the player's services by paying more than the next team. Does this mean they paid overs? Or is this now the market value?

We can't escape the reality that we have a weak side, haven't made finals for 10 years, don't have a proper home-ground, are in the process of building training facilities, struggle with our own identity, along with a myriad of other issues.

Thus, when you add our particular subjectivity in the equation, I would say that criticizing management for considering paying overs is a rather narrow view.

The real trick is to get players that perform above their pay grade...last year I'd say we had 1 in Luciano Leilua and way too many in previous seasons who simply did not...Corey Thompson was another good example when he 1st arrived here...

It is why I like the Daine Laurie signing...for what they paid ..it allows $$$ to be allocated elsewhere..

IMO Packer and Mbye for what they paid are the 2 left that are not providing value for output..

The balance is becoming much better..in discussions I've had with Adam Hartigan this will be the way forward...with recruitment and retention...Josh Aloiai is a good example..in the past previous management may well have bowed to his demands for high level Prop money..JWH, Papalii levels due to the case he was ours and the time put into his development...

To Manly for whatever reason they believe he is worth that..Wests Tigers did not..

I'd also say if it is possible to have players coming off contract when multiples in their preferred position are coming off contract ...like any business situation when demand is lower it is better for buyers

 

[cochise]

Can someone please explain "overs" to me?

Paying players more than their market value to get them to your Club..it is however often subjective as players may be worth more to one Club depending on the need...

All about a balance..

Thanks Geo. That's what I thought.
I still find "market value" a misnomer in terms of sports contracts. I'll explain: when a good player is in a contract year they invariably test their value on the open market. A bidding war ensues with one team winning the player's services by paying more than the next team. Does this mean they paid overs? Or is this now the market value?

We can't escape the reality that we have a weak side, haven't made finals for 10 years, don't have a proper home-ground, are in the process of building training facilities, struggle with our own identity, along with a myriad of other issues.

Thus, when you add our particular subjectivity in the equation, I would say that criticizing management for considering paying overs is a rather narrow view.

The real trick is to get players that perform above their pay grade...last year I'd say we had 1 in Luciano Leilua and way too many in previous seasons who simply did not...Corey Thompson was another good example when he 1st arrived here...

It is why I like the Daine Laurie signing...for what they paid ..it allows $$$ to be allocated elsewhere..

IMO Packer and Mbye for what they paid are the 2 left that are not providing value for output..

The balance is becoming much better..in discussions I've had with Adam Hartigan this will be the way forward...with recruitment and retention...Josh Aloiai is a good example..in the past previous management may well have bowed to his demands for high level Prop money..JWH, Papalii levels due to the case he was ours and the time put into his development...

To Manly for whatever reason they believe he is worth that..Wests Tigers did not..

Very well put @Geo to me paying overs is paying more than the value a player contributes to the team and that is why a player can be worth more to one team than he is to another.

For example if an attribute of player X is he makes 180m a game, that player may be valued higher to team A, because the average mtrs for their forwards is 100m compared to team B's forwards averaging 150m. In that scenario team A would probably value player x a lot higher than team B.

I would also say what is overs at one club may not be overs at another.

 

[westy81]

Can someone please explain "overs" to me?

Paying players more than their market value to get them to your Club..it is however often subjective as players may be worth more to one Club depending on the need...

All about a balance..

Thanks Geo. That's what I thought.
I still find "market value" a misnomer in terms of sports contracts. I'll explain: when a good player is in a contract year they invariably test their value on the open market. A bidding war ensues with one team winning the player's services by paying more than the next team. Does this mean they paid overs? Or is this now the market value?

We can't escape the reality that we have a weak side, haven't made finals for 10 years, don't have a proper home-ground, are in the process of building training facilities, struggle with our own identity, along with a myriad of other issues.

Thus, when you add our particular subjectivity in the equation, I would say that criticizing management for considering paying overs is a rather narrow view.

The real trick is to get players that perform above their pay grade...last year I'd say we had 1 in Luciano Leilua and way too many in previous seasons who simply did not...Corey Thompson was another good example when he 1st arrived here...

It is why I like the Daine Laurie signing...for what they paid ..it allows $$$ to be allocated elsewhere..

IMO Packer and Mbye for what they paid are the 2 left that are not providing value for output..

The balance is becoming much better..in discussions I've had with Adam Hartigan this will be the way forward...with recruitment and retention...Josh Aloiai is a good example..in the past previous management may well have bowed to his demands for high level Prop money..JWH, Papalii levels due to the case he was ours and the time put into his development...

To Manly for whatever reason they believe he is worth that..Wests Tigers did not..

He will end up like taupau he took a big pay day when he went to manly and what have they done since he signed with them

 

[Tigerbuck63]

We need to go hard for staggs. Better than Crichton imo and would have no trouble with playing fb.
Absolute class player, worth a mill

Plus he can kick goals.

His manager is trying to push up the market price,as they all do.Chrichton Ibelieve has more promise,but they will be the 2 biggest targets on the market,I would go as high as $800,000 for Crichton,less for Stagg,but Hartigan knows what we need and at what price .A lot chasing these 2,but another star comes along every 6 mths

With the salary cap reduced by 6% and sitting at 9 million now - assume 30 players = $350k average
We are saying that we are willing to pay $800k
Quite a few clubs with Million $ players on the books and i think with the reduction in the cap we need to only 1 marque player at present its Mybe on $950k.....

You do realise that Mbye's salary has now gone down by 6%, as have all players in the NRL...

Thanks for Mentioning well drop of $57k at 6%
Still sitting at $893k lets hope he performs this season.

 

[Fade.To.Black]

You don't kill it in a deciding SOO game if you can't play

Grant ........Flemington straight .....Liddle

We need an upgrade in 2022 and beyond

Particularly if Liddle doesn't step up and Simpkin can't step up straight away

You are so far behind the 8 ball if you don't have a quality 9 in the modern game

The 9 position does not even rate for me this coming season as I feel this position is covered 2 x quality 9’s. I have my observations about Grant and his longevity though.

I worry about Grant's longevity as well .....but he probably has learnt a lot from that bloke in 9 who was captain ....if anyone can teach him about longevity as a 9 making 40 tackles every week for 15 + seasons it is Cam Smith

Smith's longevity can be put down to the cavalcade of brilliant players Melbourne have been unable to unearth Cronk Slater Inglis to name a few and the HUGE forwards he had around him Grant's got it all in front of him brilliant break out year courtesy of WT'S he has to back that up and get past the second year Syndrome where I dont think teams will give the latitude he got in year one it will be interesting what Madge comes up with to combat him.

Plus Cammy had an extreme reluctance to run the ball to the defensive line and allow himself to be got at by defenders. Blokes that played more rugged in attack and threw themselves at the mercy of the defence aka Farah, Issac Luke etc coincidently picked up more injuries.
Playing like a cat has its advantages injury wise it seems.

 

[Deleted member 3518]

Can someone please explain "overs" to me?

Paying players more than their market value to get them to your Club..it is however often subjective as players may be worth more to one Club depending on the need...

All about a balance..

Thanks Geo. That's what I thought.
I still find "market value" a misnomer in terms of sports contracts. I'll explain: when a good player is in a contract year they invariably test their value on the open market. A bidding war ensues with one team winning the player's services by paying more than the next team. Does this mean they paid overs? Or is this now the market value?

We can't escape the reality that we have a weak side, haven't made finals for 10 years, don't have a proper home-ground, are in the process of building training facilities, struggle with our own identity, along with a myriad of other issues.

Thus, when you add our particular subjectivity in the equation, I would say that criticizing management for considering paying overs is a rather narrow view.

The real trick is to get players that perform above their pay grade...last year I'd say we had 1 in Luciano Leilua and way too many in previous seasons who simply did not...Corey Thompson was another good example when he 1st arrived here...

It is why I like the Daine Laurie signing...for what they paid ..it allows $$$ to be allocated elsewhere..

IMO Packer and Mbye for what they paid are the 2 left that are not providing value for output..

The balance is becoming much better..in discussions I've had with Adam Hartigan this will be the way forward...with recruitment and retention...Josh Aloiai is a good example..in the past previous management may well have bowed to his demands for high level Prop money..JWH, Papalii levels due to the case he was ours and the time put into his development...

To Manly for whatever reason they believe he is worth that..Wests Tigers did not..

Very well put @Geo to me paying overs is paying more than the value a player contributes to the team and that is why a player can be worth more to one team than he is to another.

For example if an attribute of player X is he makes 180m a game, that player may be valued higher to team A, because the average mtrs for their forwards is 100m compared to team B's forwards averaging 150m. In that scenario team A would probably value player x a lot higher than team B.

I would also say what is overs at one club may not be overs at another.

It would depend on your cap and roster management I’d say . If you know you have 2 fringe first grade forwards on 200k for the next 3 years , and you’re sure they will move up to permanent first team in that time , you could probably afford to poach a front rower from another team for 600k , as the average is 33k across the 3 players . But that’s a risky strategy I reckon , as it’s an easy to get yourself into financial hurt , as what happens if those 2 other forwards become origin forwards in that time , and now you’re paying all 3 600k , and 1 of them isn’t worth half that .

 

[TheDaBoss]

MWZ has hung up the boots

 

[Big Brain]

You don't kill it in a deciding SOO game if you can't play

Grant ........Flemington straight .....Liddle

We need an upgrade in 2022 and beyond

Particularly if Liddle doesn't step up and Simpkin can't step up straight away

You are so far behind the 8 ball if you don't have a quality 9 in the modern game

The 9 position does not even rate for me this coming season as I feel this position is covered 2 x quality 9’s. I have my observations about Grant and his longevity though.

I worry about Grant's longevity as well .....but he probably has learnt a lot from that bloke in 9 who was captain ....if anyone can teach him about longevity as a 9 making 40 tackles every week for 15 + seasons it is Cam Smith

Smith's longevity can be put down to the cavalcade of brilliant players Melbourne have been unable to unearth Cronk Slater Inglis to name a few and the HUGE forwards he had around him Grant's got it all in front of him brilliant break out year courtesy of WT'S he has to back that up and get past the second year Syndrome where I dont think teams will give the latitude he got in year one it will be interesting what Madge comes up with to combat him.

Plus Cammy had an extreme reluctance to run the ball to the defensive line and allow himself to be got at by defenders. Blokes that played more rugged in attack and threw themselves at the mercy of the defence aka Farah, Issac Luke etc coincidently picked up more injuries.
Playing like a cat has its advantages injury wise it seems.

Like in the last origin series he played when everyone was writing him off and at the first play the ball he ran 30 metres from dummy half and made every NSW forward look like an imbecile. Just like you're looking like an imbecile for denigrating the best hooker that ever played the game.

 

[Big Brain]

You don't kill it in a deciding SOO game if you can't play

Grant ........Flemington straight .....Liddle

We need an upgrade in 2022 and beyond

Particularly if Liddle doesn't step up and Simpkin can't step up straight away

You are so far behind the 8 ball if you don't have a quality 9 in the modern game

The 9 position does not even rate for me this coming season as I feel this position is covered 2 x quality 9’s. I have my observations about Grant and his longevity though.

I worry about Grant's longevity as well .....but he probably has learnt a lot from that bloke in 9 who was captain ....if anyone can teach him about longevity as a 9 making 40 tackles every week for 15 + seasons it is Cam Smith

Smith's longevity can be put down to the cavalcade of brilliant players Melbourne have been unable to unearth Cronk Slater Inglis to name a few and the HUGE forwards he had around him Grant's got it all in front of him brilliant break out year courtesy of WT'S he has to back that up and get past the second year Syndrome where I dont think teams will give the latitude he got in year one it will be interesting what Madge comes up with to combat him.

Plus Cammy had an extreme reluctance to run the ball to the defensive line and allow himself to be got at by defenders. Blokes that played more rugged in attack and threw themselves at the mercy of the defence aka Farah, Issac Luke etc coincidently picked up more injuries.
Playing like a cat has its advantages injury wise it seems.

Have you ever watched a game of footy?

 

[mike]

MWZ has hung up the boots

Wishing him all the best for the future and that his health improves so he can live a normal life.

 

[Big Brain]

Can someone please explain "overs" to me?

Paying players more than their market value to get them to your Club..it is however often subjective as players may be worth more to one Club depending on the need...

All about a balance..

Thanks Geo. That's what I thought.
I still find "market value" a misnomer in terms of sports contracts. I'll explain: when a good player is in a contract year they invariably test their value on the open market. A bidding war ensues with one team winning the player's services by paying more than the next team. Does this mean they paid overs? Or is this now the market value?

We can't escape the reality that we have a weak side, haven't made finals for 10 years, don't have a proper home-ground, are in the process of building training facilities, struggle with our own identity, along with a myriad of other issues.

Thus, when you add our particular subjectivity in the equation, I would say that criticizing management for considering paying overs is a rather narrow view.

The real trick is to get players that perform above their pay grade...last year I'd say we had 1 in Luciano Leilua and way too many in previous seasons who simply did not...Corey Thompson was another good example when he 1st arrived here...

It is why I like the Daine Laurie signing...for what they paid ..it allows $$$ to be allocated elsewhere..

IMO Packer and Mbye for what they paid are the 2 left that are not providing value for output..

The balance is becoming much better..in discussions I've had with Adam Hartigan this will be the way forward...with recruitment and retention...Josh Aloiai is a good example..in the past previous management may well have bowed to his demands for high level Prop money..JWH, Papalii levels due to the case he was ours and the time put into his development...

To Manly for whatever reason they believe he is worth that..Wests Tigers did not..

Very well put @Geo to me paying overs is paying more than the value a player contributes to the team and that is why a player can be worth more to one team than he is to another.

For example if an attribute of player X is he makes 180m a game, that player may be valued higher to team A, because the average mtrs for their forwards is 100m compared to team B's forwards averaging 150m. In that scenario team A would probably value player x a lot higher than team B.

I would also say what is overs at one club may not be overs at another.

Or let's use Matt Burton as an example. He's worth Y at the Panthers as a back-up 5/8 or half but worth probably 2 x Y to numerous clubs as a starting 5/8. Aloai was worth z to us because we have Tamou, Musgrave, Twal, Mikaele etc. but 1.5 x z to Manly because they lost AFB.