Signings, Suggestions & Rumours Discussion

[Tiger5150]

Get rid of McLuciano too. Clearly they both think they’re way better than they actually are and are a culture killer too. Whingers!

Since when has Luciano done anything?

He’s suffering from the same issues Nathan Cleary is. Being related to a scumbag.

Sure. Joey is a straight dumbass but I dunno if he belongs in the May category. Maybe the Hopoate division as a lightweight.

Nathan Cleary is related to May?

Through marriage .....

May is rumoured to be dating natha sister, not married to her. Did I miss something?

 

[happy_tiger]

Get rid of McLuciano too. Clearly they both think they’re way better than they actually are and are a culture killer too. Whingers!

Since when has Luciano done anything?

He’s suffering from the same issues Nathan Cleary is. Being related to a scumbag.

Sure. Joey is a straight dumbass but I dunno if he belongs in the May category. Maybe the Hopoate division as a lightweight.

Nathan Cleary is related to May?

Through marriage .....

May is rumoured to be dating natha sister, not married to her. Did I miss something?

They are from Penrith ....everyone up their is related somehow .....isn't @Cultured_Bogan and @hobbo1 related as well

 

[TigerSJ]

This surprised me:

*The Tigers had been linked to Scott earlier this year, before his contract was terminated at the Raiders, however that deal never eventuated. The club has cash to spend for 2022 but with new recruit Oliver Gildart joining and **the highly-rated Reece Hoffman** being upgraded to the top 30, Scott would not be guaranteed a spot in the 17.*

Well that’s just making stuff up. How do they come up with this stuff.

Good question- sorry but I cant see anything in Hoffman

This surprised me:

*The Tigers had been linked to Scott earlier this year, before his contract was terminated at the Raiders, however that deal never eventuated. The club has cash to spend for 2022 but with new recruit Oliver Gildart joining and **the highly-rated Reece Hoffman** being upgraded to the top 30, Scott would not be guaranteed a spot in the 17.*

Well that’s just making stuff up. How do they come up with this stuff.

100% right. Don’t like to be mean but after reading this rubbish I am sorry to say that I have watched Hoffman a lot and sadly have seen very little in him over the last few years. Even in reggies he was below average and unfortunately has no real standout strengths either - he’s not a great defender, he’s not particularly quick nor does he have good footwork, he’s not a hard runner or a tough player especially, he’s also not a strong competitive effort type player with a never say die attitude either, basically I am not sure he’s even an NRL player.

Agreed, based purely on photos Ive seen of him, he seems to have bulked up a fair bit and not in a way that is likely to add any pace. I am very concerned about burning a roster spot for Reece.

I may be wrong but I think we were committed to him being upgraded from the development squad. Maybe somebody can answer that question- when a player is taken on as a development player for 1-2 years are they then guaranteed an NRL squad spot???

Sorry to be blunt but that may have been answered about 1000 (or more) pages ago. It depends is the answer. Think some of ours have it built in.

No problem.... I have to admit to skipping a few pages in this particular topic from time to time as it tends to get a little off course.

 

[Camel2281]

Tannous

Im told he is ready he can play in the spine

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Am8FYKjl3Pc

definitely has the talent but I doubt we see him in first grade until 2023 at the earliest.

Yep. Got some growing to do, he looks small standing next to Laurie.

Looks bigger than Brooks

 

[Camel2281]

We’ve never had the cleanout we needed…

Just as a matter of interest, what do you mean by a "cleanout"? Because you know teams have to have a full roster, right? You obviously don't rate lots of the current roster, and it's hard to blame you, but we're not going to fix it by starting the season with half a dozen players on our books.

Understood, It's something we should have done when we lost most our key players in 2017.
What I mean is - Stop signing the players that they think are going to get us just over the line (From 9th to 8th) and start building them.
Stop signing gap stops like Mbye and Reynolds... We should have offered stupid money to Maloney even post Panthers
Sign some leadership, Some blokes who'll fight to the death and real toilers.
Stop overpaying to keep unproven junior talent (Like Suli) It's not hard to remember we paid 450k a year to Brooks & Moses in 2014 - Before they'd even played grade really....
Part of the reason we couldn't surround them with quality. Overpaying for Woods, Simona and the like...
For what - Our jnr pathways has seemed non existent since those days anyway.
We have more than enough skilled kids to pick from - We need some CHARACTER & LEADERSHIP
We've not had any since the last of the Pre Merger guys finished up... Blokes like Senter, Skando and Galea would drag these blokes into line.

I'd almost throw some money at a type like or Wade Graham, Best footy is well behind him... Good Footy Head, Would be good around Halves, Back Row and Centre.
Luke Lewis would have been perfect.... That type of footballer.

We are so far from winning the comp it's not funny - At some point, We need to admit that...

Stop trying to win the comp next year - And start trying to win it in 5-10 years.

The thing is, you're asking for several different things all at the same time. You don't want "stop gaps" or short term solutions, but you want to throw money at Wade Graham. You don't want to overpay unproven youth, but you want the club to build from within.

Sorry, I don't mean to have a crack because I totally agree that the club needs a long-term plan. The problem as I see it, though, is actually rather more simple: they have been crap at identifying talent for years. There isn't a single recipe for success other than recognising when a player is going to contribute.

How do clubs like Melbourne manage to keep their Cameron Munsters where we lose our James Tedescos? Why was Luke Lewis a brilliant veteran signing for the Sharks when James Tamou has been a crap one for us? Why did we give Nofoaluma a four-year deal at the absolute peak of his cost when the Raiders have lost Dugan, Ferguson, Milford, Cotric and more yet managed to find cheap replacements? I honestly think it comes down to identifying and properly valuing talent more than anything.

What I'm saying is there isn't a sweeping one-size-fits-all solution. We should be doing all of building from our own juniors, looking to poach talent from elsewhere, finding undervalued players on the open market and making marquee free agent signings. We just have to stop being useless at valuing all of them.

I don't think I am mate...
Wade Graham isn't a stop gap mate, He's of high character and would be of great assistance to a lot of our young players... We've got Garner, Blore, Leilua, Even Twal to a degree... All young players - Who's teaching them the tricks? Who's teaching them how tough you need to be? Who's teaching them how to keep going when you don't think you can... Who... It certainly wasn't Chris Lawrence.
There no point having all the best junior talent when there's no one to show them anything.... I used Wade Graham as an example - He would also be handy in the halves and centre to a degree... He's a footballer. A tough one.
There's a difference between paying too much for local talent and keeping local talent. We paid Brooks and Moses almost the going rate for an established half at the time... Barely played a game. Would we have lost them if we paid $250 instead of $450k? (Keeping in mind for 2015 they both went to $600k... This is 8 Years ago - When they didn't have 1 season behind them)
Needless to say Meyer didn't last long after that... Then Cleary signed a heap of busted stop gaps.... Woods offer from us was the best part of a million dollars, Went to the dogs for 800, Then to the sharks for 600... If we're overpaying, We need to overpay for Character, Not talent.... Build a team on Character and it will attract talent... A team of Talent won't attract character
(RIP WESTS TIGERS 2005-2011)

Gareth Ellis was super special, But there is another one out there - There just has to be.

Ok well this is where we disagree. If you think Wade Graham is the answer I'm afraid you're in dreamland. He's 31 and he's played an average of about 16 games a season over the past four years - he's exactly the same sort of busted, past-it old player we've signed and been let down by over and over again. What on earth makes you think his veteran leadership will be materially different from that provided by Tamou, Mbye, Ballin, Packer, Reynolds, Anasta or Matulino?

We don't need a "veteran footballer to show the kids the tricks". We need good footballers who can materially improve the roster on the field. We've tried recruiting character, over and over again. If we want character and know-how, it should be in the coaching team - not on the field, unless it can also contribute. No successful team recruits past it players because of their "leadership".

The thing is, when you say "stop gap" what you seem to mean is "bad player". How on earth is Wade Graham (31) not a stop gap when Josh Reynolds (29 when he signed for us) was? Just your idea of who's going to be a good role model, it appears.

You're not catching what I'm kicking mate, Or maybe I'm not kicking it as well as I could be....
I'm not overly suggesting We sign Wade Graham... But we need that type of Guy.. Nor would I suggest he's any sort of saviour... But he never ever gives up - And that's the type of Character we need...
100% guts... Will crawl through a river of crap for a win.
Although, His "16 Games a season" Would pale in Comparison to the guys (We actually did buy) you yourself are comparing him to... Would I take Wade Grahams average 16 over Matt Ballins average of 1... Yeah, Probably... Furthermore - When comparing his leadership, The guys you're comparing him to also pale in comparison to him in this area.

We've been lay down merchants for far too long.

I think we're talking about a different kind of "Character" You seem to be implying it's moral character - Good people... I'm talking about the kind of blokes you take to war with you... that lead by actions... Leaders of men.
And in the last 20 years - I can only really think of one that we've signed... One that every player in that team knows is going to bring it - No matter what.

One isn't enough...

No, I totally get what you're saying. It's just that you're not offering anything to explain why Wade Graham (or any other old lag) is going to provide this never-say-die attitude that will get the rest of the players performing above themselves in a way that all the other "proven leaders" we've signed didn't. What's different about him compared with Tamou or Packer (when we signed them)? Wade Graham has a career winning percentage of 49.8%; James Tamou 55.6%. Where does Graham's mysterious aura of invincibility come from? Because as it turns out he's crawled through a river of crap for a win on 259 occasions and on 130 of them has failed to get one.

And yes, I know you don't mean Graham specifically. But that makes your point even weaker: what you're asking for is generic leadership abilities that you can't define beyond saying apparently Wade Graham has them, and which we've repeatedly tried to recruit for and failed.

I also know you don't mean "good blokes". We didn't recruit Packer or McQueen or Matulino because they would be popular in the sheds - we wanted "enforcers" or "pack leaders". Again, pointless - because they were all past it.

We don't need "leadership", especially not when it comes from busted old players whose best years are half a decade behind them. We need good footballers.

We've had good footballers - It didn't work!!
We've had generational players - players that changed the game... It worked 3/14 years they were here.
We need workers, toilers... Blokes that aren't afraid to do the hard yards... I've been a worker all my life, I know what they look like.
Wade Graham is one, Gareth Ellis is another, The blokes you've mentioned aren't... That's why we are where we are...

We've got no work ethic, No Backbone... It's been our problem for a very long time. Never bothered to roll up the sleeves, graft away and get a win... (Give the ball to Benji and he'll dance us to victory) It's engrained in us...

I'd rather watch 13 Wade Grahams get lapped giving everything that watch our blokes give up chase on a line break, standing with hands on hips... Or not smacking blokes in Defence.

That's my opinion, Happy for you to not agree with it.

It's not about agreeing or not. I'm asking how you know Wade Graham has these magical super duper effort skills where Tamou, Packer, McQueen, Matulino, Mbye and so forth did not, and you've not even tried to explain. You keep saying Wade Graham (and apparently others like him) have this guts and glory thing but you can't and don't try to define it - it's just there, in a way you somehow recognise even when nobody else does. Then you more or less admit that you don't even think Wade Graham would be particularly good. So basically what you're saying is that you think the Tigers roster should be constructed based on possession of characteristics you cannot define even at the explicit exclusion of actual footballing ability. It's nonsense I'm afraid.

OK Mate,
When we Signed Packer, Matulino and all the Rest of the Nufties we signed you're comparing him to... Put all of them, And Wade Graham in a line - Who's your first pick, And why?

Mine is Wade Graham, Or Dale Finucane, Or Gareth Ellis....
I have said why, you just don't care to read it...

The Players I've mentioned are the leaders of men, There are natural leaders and there are followers. Unless you're 15 or never been employed, They're quite easy to notice.
I've seen nothing in the career of any of the Players you're comparing Graham to, that would lead me to think they're leaders of men... They're followers - All of them. Even at his peak, Tamou wasn't in the top 3 Leaders at the Cows...
Furthermore, I've never compared Wade to him as a leader... Moreso, I would think it's quite obvious (especially being afforded hindsight) what the difference between a player like Wade Graham is - And the nothings you keep throwing up.

We've got a team of kids that the likes of Tamou & Mbye can't lead... I'd have thought it's been quite obvious.
How would they go leading men?

Because you're saying that now, with the benefit of hindsight. Of course it's easy to say all the players we've signed in the past fail your mystical leadership test - because they've all been bad. But someone like Josh Reynolds is exactly what you're talking about: absolute 100% effort, never say die, leave it all out on the field. His nickname is literally "grub". And he was crap. Tamou has seen and done it all, consumate professional, great trainer, leads by example. Crap. Russell Packer was a hard man, enforcer type, the pack leader we'd been missing. Crap. Why? Because the Tigers overvalued their intangibles relative to their actual ability to play football. On the other hand, Gareth Ellis was a brilliant, brilliant footballer - why do you need to gild the lily with made up BS about his magical leadership powers?

All you're saying is that the next past it old hack would definitely be different from all the ones we've had in the past for reasons you can't explain other than you think this one tries harder, even though trying hard was literally the primary skill of someone like Josh Reynolds.

To be honest, this whole discussion is ludicrous on its face. I'm sorry, I've tried to be nice but the idea that Wade flipping Graham in 2022 is going to deliver anything more than a bunch of work for the rehab staff... I just don't think there's a conversation to be had.

Let's chat again in a year. You can laugh at me when the Sharks are premiers because of Wade Graham and Dale Finucane (TBF I think Finucane is ok - but based on the fact he has actually delivered positive on field contributions as a player in living memory, not because he has magic leadership powers).

Massively disagree regards to your comparisons using Reynolds. Reynolds has a go, but he does it without thought of his teammates or game plan. He used to fly out of the defensive line which when he inevitably missed the tackle put all his teammates under pressure. He was a chook with his head cut off. High energy but low in skills, smarts or team work.

I get what old mate means using Wade Graham as an example, Luke Lewis was similar. Both very talented but worked incredibly hard but in a way that was all about the TEAM, they'd produce effort plays not necessarily just to look good themselves but to benefit the team. We haven't had one of those players for years

 

[rex2ce]

We’ve never had the cleanout we needed…

Just as a matter of interest, what do you mean by a "cleanout"? Because you know teams have to have a full roster, right? You obviously don't rate lots of the current roster, and it's hard to blame you, but we're not going to fix it by starting the season with half a dozen players on our books.

Understood, It's something we should have done when we lost most our key players in 2017.
What I mean is - Stop signing the players that they think are going to get us just over the line (From 9th to 8th) and start building them.
Stop signing gap stops like Mbye and Reynolds... We should have offered stupid money to Maloney even post Panthers
Sign some leadership, Some blokes who'll fight to the death and real toilers.
Stop overpaying to keep unproven junior talent (Like Suli) It's not hard to remember we paid 450k a year to Brooks & Moses in 2014 - Before they'd even played grade really....
Part of the reason we couldn't surround them with quality. Overpaying for Woods, Simona and the like...
For what - Our jnr pathways has seemed non existent since those days anyway.
We have more than enough skilled kids to pick from - We need some CHARACTER & LEADERSHIP
We've not had any since the last of the Pre Merger guys finished up... Blokes like Senter, Skando and Galea would drag these blokes into line.

I'd almost throw some money at a type like or Wade Graham, Best footy is well behind him... Good Footy Head, Would be good around Halves, Back Row and Centre.
Luke Lewis would have been perfect.... That type of footballer.

We are so far from winning the comp it's not funny - At some point, We need to admit that...

Stop trying to win the comp next year - And start trying to win it in 5-10 years.

The thing is, you're asking for several different things all at the same time. You don't want "stop gaps" or short term solutions, but you want to throw money at Wade Graham. You don't want to overpay unproven youth, but you want the club to build from within.

Sorry, I don't mean to have a crack because I totally agree that the club needs a long-term plan. The problem as I see it, though, is actually rather more simple: they have been crap at identifying talent for years. There isn't a single recipe for success other than recognising when a player is going to contribute.

How do clubs like Melbourne manage to keep their Cameron Munsters where we lose our James Tedescos? Why was Luke Lewis a brilliant veteran signing for the Sharks when James Tamou has been a crap one for us? Why did we give Nofoaluma a four-year deal at the absolute peak of his cost when the Raiders have lost Dugan, Ferguson, Milford, Cotric and more yet managed to find cheap replacements? I honestly think it comes down to identifying and properly valuing talent more than anything.

What I'm saying is there isn't a sweeping one-size-fits-all solution. We should be doing all of building from our own juniors, looking to poach talent from elsewhere, finding undervalued players on the open market and making marquee free agent signings. We just have to stop being useless at valuing all of them.

I don't think I am mate...
Wade Graham isn't a stop gap mate, He's of high character and would be of great assistance to a lot of our young players... We've got Garner, Blore, Leilua, Even Twal to a degree... All young players - Who's teaching them the tricks? Who's teaching them how tough you need to be? Who's teaching them how to keep going when you don't think you can... Who... It certainly wasn't Chris Lawrence.
There no point having all the best junior talent when there's no one to show them anything.... I used Wade Graham as an example - He would also be handy in the halves and centre to a degree... He's a footballer. A tough one.
There's a difference between paying too much for local talent and keeping local talent. We paid Brooks and Moses almost the going rate for an established half at the time... Barely played a game. Would we have lost them if we paid $250 instead of $450k? (Keeping in mind for 2015 they both went to $600k... This is 8 Years ago - When they didn't have 1 season behind them)
Needless to say Meyer didn't last long after that... Then Cleary signed a heap of busted stop gaps.... Woods offer from us was the best part of a million dollars, Went to the dogs for 800, Then to the sharks for 600... If we're overpaying, We need to overpay for Character, Not talent.... Build a team on Character and it will attract talent... A team of Talent won't attract character
(RIP WESTS TIGERS 2005-2011)

Gareth Ellis was super special, But there is another one out there - There just has to be.

Ok well this is where we disagree. If you think Wade Graham is the answer I'm afraid you're in dreamland. He's 31 and he's played an average of about 16 games a season over the past four years - he's exactly the same sort of busted, past-it old player we've signed and been let down by over and over again. What on earth makes you think his veteran leadership will be materially different from that provided by Tamou, Mbye, Ballin, Packer, Reynolds, Anasta or Matulino?

We don't need a "veteran footballer to show the kids the tricks". We need good footballers who can materially improve the roster on the field. We've tried recruiting character, over and over again. If we want character and know-how, it should be in the coaching team - not on the field, unless it can also contribute. No successful team recruits past it players because of their "leadership".

The thing is, when you say "stop gap" what you seem to mean is "bad player". How on earth is Wade Graham (31) not a stop gap when Josh Reynolds (29 when he signed for us) was? Just your idea of who's going to be a good role model, it appears.

Wade Graham is probably one more head knock away from retirement

 

[razor7]

I was told Flegg players from last season who have been retained ( Dillon, Scolari etc) have been included in a NSW Cup Squad. I can’t find that squad anywhere . Can someone either post it or tell how to find it

 

[tony soprano]

We’ve never had the cleanout we needed…

Just as a matter of interest, what do you mean by a "cleanout"? Because you know teams have to have a full roster, right? You obviously don't rate lots of the current roster, and it's hard to blame you, but we're not going to fix it by starting the season with half a dozen players on our books.

Understood, It's something we should have done when we lost most our key players in 2017.
What I mean is - Stop signing the players that they think are going to get us just over the line (From 9th to 8th) and start building them.
Stop signing gap stops like Mbye and Reynolds... We should have offered stupid money to Maloney even post Panthers
Sign some leadership, Some blokes who'll fight to the death and real toilers.
Stop overpaying to keep unproven junior talent (Like Suli) It's not hard to remember we paid 450k a year to Brooks & Moses in 2014 - Before they'd even played grade really....
Part of the reason we couldn't surround them with quality. Overpaying for Woods, Simona and the like...
For what - Our jnr pathways has seemed non existent since those days anyway.
We have more than enough skilled kids to pick from - We need some CHARACTER & LEADERSHIP
We've not had any since the last of the Pre Merger guys finished up... Blokes like Senter, Skando and Galea would drag these blokes into line.

I'd almost throw some money at a type like or Wade Graham, Best footy is well behind him... Good Footy Head, Would be good around Halves, Back Row and Centre.
Luke Lewis would have been perfect.... That type of footballer.

We are so far from winning the comp it's not funny - At some point, We need to admit that...

Stop trying to win the comp next year - And start trying to win it in 5-10 years.

The thing is, you're asking for several different things all at the same time. You don't want "stop gaps" or short term solutions, but you want to throw money at Wade Graham. You don't want to overpay unproven youth, but you want the club to build from within.

Sorry, I don't mean to have a crack because I totally agree that the club needs a long-term plan. The problem as I see it, though, is actually rather more simple: they have been crap at identifying talent for years. There isn't a single recipe for success other than recognising when a player is going to contribute.

How do clubs like Melbourne manage to keep their Cameron Munsters where we lose our James Tedescos? Why was Luke Lewis a brilliant veteran signing for the Sharks when James Tamou has been a crap one for us? Why did we give Nofoaluma a four-year deal at the absolute peak of his cost when the Raiders have lost Dugan, Ferguson, Milford, Cotric and more yet managed to find cheap replacements? I honestly think it comes down to identifying and properly valuing talent more than anything.

What I'm saying is there isn't a sweeping one-size-fits-all solution. We should be doing all of building from our own juniors, looking to poach talent from elsewhere, finding undervalued players on the open market and making marquee free agent signings. We just have to stop being useless at valuing all of them.

I don't think I am mate...
Wade Graham isn't a stop gap mate, He's of high character and would be of great assistance to a lot of our young players... We've got Garner, Blore, Leilua, Even Twal to a degree... All young players - Who's teaching them the tricks? Who's teaching them how tough you need to be? Who's teaching them how to keep going when you don't think you can... Who... It certainly wasn't Chris Lawrence.
There no point having all the best junior talent when there's no one to show them anything.... I used Wade Graham as an example - He would also be handy in the halves and centre to a degree... He's a footballer. A tough one.
There's a difference between paying too much for local talent and keeping local talent. We paid Brooks and Moses almost the going rate for an established half at the time... Barely played a game. Would we have lost them if we paid $250 instead of $450k? (Keeping in mind for 2015 they both went to $600k... This is 8 Years ago - When they didn't have 1 season behind them)
Needless to say Meyer didn't last long after that... Then Cleary signed a heap of busted stop gaps.... Woods offer from us was the best part of a million dollars, Went to the dogs for 800, Then to the sharks for 600... If we're overpaying, We need to overpay for Character, Not talent.... Build a team on Character and it will attract talent... A team of Talent won't attract character
(RIP WESTS TIGERS 2005-2011)

Gareth Ellis was super special, But there is another one out there - There just has to be.

Ok well this is where we disagree. If you think Wade Graham is the answer I'm afraid you're in dreamland. He's 31 and he's played an average of about 16 games a season over the past four years - he's exactly the same sort of busted, past-it old player we've signed and been let down by over and over again. What on earth makes you think his veteran leadership will be materially different from that provided by Tamou, Mbye, Ballin, Packer, Reynolds, Anasta or Matulino?

We don't need a "veteran footballer to show the kids the tricks". We need good footballers who can materially improve the roster on the field. We've tried recruiting character, over and over again. If we want character and know-how, it should be in the coaching team - not on the field, unless it can also contribute. No successful team recruits past it players because of their "leadership".

The thing is, when you say "stop gap" what you seem to mean is "bad player". How on earth is Wade Graham (31) not a stop gap when Josh Reynolds (29 when he signed for us) was? Just your idea of who's going to be a good role model, it appears.

Wade Graham is probably one more head knock away from retirement

He was one head knock away from retirement two head knocks ago.

It's not right he's still playing.

 

[tony soprano]

I was told Flegg players from last season who have been retained ( Dillon, Scolari etc) have been included in a NSW Cup Squad. I can’t find that squad anywhere . Can someone either post it or tell how to find it

They have not posted nsw cup info and info in scarce on cup when they do.

 

[LUPO]

Just saw a headline for a Joey Leulua story - cant be bothered to read it but it actually made me laugh - made my day " NRL reject still completely clueless" ...... lol

https://www.foxsports.com.au/nrl/nrl-premiership/plenty-going-wrong-at-that-club-tigers-discard-bj-leilua-takes-aim-at-coach-michael-maguire/news-story/5919f5c3c36e362a5d0fa7ca1488992e

Came from a club where everyone spoke up - So he spoke up at the Tigers and got punted for it....
He forgets Ricky told him he wasn't good enough for the Raiders also... (Another team that didn't play finals this year)
He's not good enough - and looking for someone to blame...

Maybe now he'll own it. Thing is - He's not a media Favourite, He's not a commentators favourite, He's not a crowd favourite, and he's a pig to the fans... He's been moved on from 4/16 Clubs, And 5-6 Different coaches.

Joey ole mate ole pal... It's not us - It's you, It's always you!!

He wouldn't be good enough for our jersey flegg team

Bloke needs to dig himself a hole and hid ee in it

Even if what he said in the article is somewhat true he isn't and never was in a position to criticize it

He was a dud from the start

You have to earn the right to talk like that and he didn't earn the right to even think like that

Go to hell BJ you low life grub of a human

And while I'm at it the tigers should hurry up and sought his brother out

I'm happy to have him in the team as a bench player but if he thinks he is worth 750k than show him the door and put his money elsewhere

Sometimes just have to walk away with dignity and realize the game has passed you by. Doing yourself no favours BJ. For ever remembered costing the Raiders a GF by not passing to Rapana. Winner WT.

 

[tiger05premier]

Just saw a headline for a Joey Leulua story - cant be bothered to read it but it actually made me laugh - made my day " NRL reject still completely clueless" ...... lol

https://www.foxsports.com.au/nrl/nrl-premiership/plenty-going-wrong-at-that-club-tigers-discard-bj-leilua-takes-aim-at-coach-michael-maguire/news-story/5919f5c3c36e362a5d0fa7ca1488992e

Came from a club where everyone spoke up - So he spoke up at the Tigers and got punted for it....
He forgets Ricky told him he wasn't good enough for the Raiders also... (Another team that didn't play finals this year)
He's not good enough - and looking for someone to blame...

Maybe now he'll own it. Thing is - He's not a media Favourite, He's not a commentators favourite, He's not a crowd favourite, and he's a pig to the fans... He's been moved on from 4/16 Clubs, And 5-6 Different coaches.

Joey ole mate ole pal... It's not us - It's you, It's always you!!

He wouldn't be good enough for our jersey flegg team

Bloke needs to dig himself a hole and hid ee in it

Even if what he said in the article is somewhat true he isn't and never was in a position to criticize it

He was a dud from the start

You have to earn the right to talk like that and he didn't earn the right to even think like that

Go to hell BJ you low life grub of a human

And while I'm at it the tigers should hurry up and sought his brother out

I'm happy to have him in the team as a bench player but if he thinks he is worth 750k than show him the door and put his money elsewhere

Sometimes just have to walk away with dignity and realize the game has passed you by. Doing yourself no favours BJ. For ever remembered costing the Raiders a GF by not passing to Rapana. Winner WT.

Yep needs to take a good look in the mirror before he looks elsewhere to see why he is now in the NRL wilderness

 

[batboy]

We’ve never had the cleanout we needed…

Just as a matter of interest, what do you mean by a "cleanout"? Because you know teams have to have a full roster, right? You obviously don't rate lots of the current roster, and it's hard to blame you, but we're not going to fix it by starting the season with half a dozen players on our books.

Understood, It's something we should have done when we lost most our key players in 2017.
What I mean is - Stop signing the players that they think are going to get us just over the line (From 9th to 8th) and start building them.
Stop signing gap stops like Mbye and Reynolds... We should have offered stupid money to Maloney even post Panthers
Sign some leadership, Some blokes who'll fight to the death and real toilers.
Stop overpaying to keep unproven junior talent (Like Suli) It's not hard to remember we paid 450k a year to Brooks & Moses in 2014 - Before they'd even played grade really....
Part of the reason we couldn't surround them with quality. Overpaying for Woods, Simona and the like...
For what - Our jnr pathways has seemed non existent since those days anyway.
We have more than enough skilled kids to pick from - We need some CHARACTER & LEADERSHIP
We've not had any since the last of the Pre Merger guys finished up... Blokes like Senter, Skando and Galea would drag these blokes into line.

I'd almost throw some money at a type like or Wade Graham, Best footy is well behind him... Good Footy Head, Would be good around Halves, Back Row and Centre.
Luke Lewis would have been perfect.... That type of footballer.

We are so far from winning the comp it's not funny - At some point, We need to admit that...

Stop trying to win the comp next year - And start trying to win it in 5-10 years.

The thing is, you're asking for several different things all at the same time. You don't want "stop gaps" or short term solutions, but you want to throw money at Wade Graham. You don't want to overpay unproven youth, but you want the club to build from within.

Sorry, I don't mean to have a crack because I totally agree that the club needs a long-term plan. The problem as I see it, though, is actually rather more simple: they have been crap at identifying talent for years. There isn't a single recipe for success other than recognising when a player is going to contribute.

How do clubs like Melbourne manage to keep their Cameron Munsters where we lose our James Tedescos? Why was Luke Lewis a brilliant veteran signing for the Sharks when James Tamou has been a crap one for us? Why did we give Nofoaluma a four-year deal at the absolute peak of his cost when the Raiders have lost Dugan, Ferguson, Milford, Cotric and more yet managed to find cheap replacements? I honestly think it comes down to identifying and properly valuing talent more than anything.

What I'm saying is there isn't a sweeping one-size-fits-all solution. We should be doing all of building from our own juniors, looking to poach talent from elsewhere, finding undervalued players on the open market and making marquee free agent signings. We just have to stop being useless at valuing all of them.

I don't think I am mate...
Wade Graham isn't a stop gap mate, He's of high character and would be of great assistance to a lot of our young players... We've got Garner, Blore, Leilua, Even Twal to a degree... All young players - Who's teaching them the tricks? Who's teaching them how tough you need to be? Who's teaching them how to keep going when you don't think you can... Who... It certainly wasn't Chris Lawrence.
There no point having all the best junior talent when there's no one to show them anything.... I used Wade Graham as an example - He would also be handy in the halves and centre to a degree... He's a footballer. A tough one.
There's a difference between paying too much for local talent and keeping local talent. We paid Brooks and Moses almost the going rate for an established half at the time... Barely played a game. Would we have lost them if we paid $250 instead of $450k? (Keeping in mind for 2015 they both went to $600k... This is 8 Years ago - When they didn't have 1 season behind them)
Needless to say Meyer didn't last long after that... Then Cleary signed a heap of busted stop gaps.... Woods offer from us was the best part of a million dollars, Went to the dogs for 800, Then to the sharks for 600... If we're overpaying, We need to overpay for Character, Not talent.... Build a team on Character and it will attract talent... A team of Talent won't attract character
(RIP WESTS TIGERS 2005-2011)

Gareth Ellis was super special, But there is another one out there - There just has to be.

Ok well this is where we disagree. If you think Wade Graham is the answer I'm afraid you're in dreamland. He's 31 and he's played an average of about 16 games a season over the past four years - he's exactly the same sort of busted, past-it old player we've signed and been let down by over and over again. What on earth makes you think his veteran leadership will be materially different from that provided by Tamou, Mbye, Ballin, Packer, Reynolds, Anasta or Matulino?

We don't need a "veteran footballer to show the kids the tricks". We need good footballers who can materially improve the roster on the field. We've tried recruiting character, over and over again. If we want character and know-how, it should be in the coaching team - not on the field, unless it can also contribute. No successful team recruits past it players because of their "leadership".

The thing is, when you say "stop gap" what you seem to mean is "bad player". How on earth is Wade Graham (31) not a stop gap when Josh Reynolds (29 when he signed for us) was? Just your idea of who's going to be a good role model, it appears.

You're not catching what I'm kicking mate, Or maybe I'm not kicking it as well as I could be....
I'm not overly suggesting We sign Wade Graham... But we need that type of Guy.. Nor would I suggest he's any sort of saviour... But he never ever gives up - And that's the type of Character we need...
100% guts... Will crawl through a river of crap for a win.
Although, His "16 Games a season" Would pale in Comparison to the guys (We actually did buy) you yourself are comparing him to... Would I take Wade Grahams average 16 over Matt Ballins average of 1... Yeah, Probably... Furthermore - When comparing his leadership, The guys you're comparing him to also pale in comparison to him in this area.

We've been lay down merchants for far too long.

I think we're talking about a different kind of "Character" You seem to be implying it's moral character - Good people... I'm talking about the kind of blokes you take to war with you... that lead by actions... Leaders of men.
And in the last 20 years - I can only really think of one that we've signed... One that every player in that team knows is going to bring it - No matter what.

One isn't enough...

No, I totally get what you're saying. It's just that you're not offering anything to explain why Wade Graham (or any other old lag) is going to provide this never-say-die attitude that will get the rest of the players performing above themselves in a way that all the other "proven leaders" we've signed didn't. What's different about him compared with Tamou or Packer (when we signed them)? Wade Graham has a career winning percentage of 49.8%; James Tamou 55.6%. Where does Graham's mysterious aura of invincibility come from? Because as it turns out he's crawled through a river of crap for a win on 259 occasions and on 130 of them has failed to get one.

And yes, I know you don't mean Graham specifically. But that makes your point even weaker: what you're asking for is generic leadership abilities that you can't define beyond saying apparently Wade Graham has them, and which we've repeatedly tried to recruit for and failed.

I also know you don't mean "good blokes". We didn't recruit Packer or McQueen or Matulino because they would be popular in the sheds - we wanted "enforcers" or "pack leaders". Again, pointless - because they were all past it.

We don't need "leadership", especially not when it comes from busted old players whose best years are half a decade behind them. We need good footballers.

We've had good footballers - It didn't work!!
We've had generational players - players that changed the game... It worked 3/14 years they were here.
We need workers, toilers... Blokes that aren't afraid to do the hard yards... I've been a worker all my life, I know what they look like.
Wade Graham is one, Gareth Ellis is another, The blokes you've mentioned aren't... That's why we are where we are...

We've got no work ethic, No Backbone... It's been our problem for a very long time. Never bothered to roll up the sleeves, graft away and get a win... (Give the ball to Benji and he'll dance us to victory) It's engrained in us...

I'd rather watch 13 Wade Grahams get lapped giving everything that watch our blokes give up chase on a line break, standing with hands on hips... Or not smacking blokes in Defence.

That's my opinion, Happy for you to not agree with it.

It's not about agreeing or not. I'm asking how you know Wade Graham has these magical super duper effort skills where Tamou, Packer, McQueen, Matulino, Mbye and so forth did not, and you've not even tried to explain. You keep saying Wade Graham (and apparently others like him) have this guts and glory thing but you can't and don't try to define it - it's just there, in a way you somehow recognise even when nobody else does. Then you more or less admit that you don't even think Wade Graham would be particularly good. So basically what you're saying is that you think the Tigers roster should be constructed based on possession of characteristics you cannot define even at the explicit exclusion of actual footballing ability. It's nonsense I'm afraid.

OK Mate,
When we Signed Packer, Matulino and all the Rest of the Nufties we signed you're comparing him to... Put all of them, And Wade Graham in a line - Who's your first pick, And why?

Mine is Wade Graham, Or Dale Finucane, Or Gareth Ellis....
I have said why, you just don't care to read it...

The Players I've mentioned are the leaders of men, There are natural leaders and there are followers. Unless you're 15 or never been employed, They're quite easy to notice.
I've seen nothing in the career of any of the Players you're comparing Graham to, that would lead me to think they're leaders of men... They're followers - All of them. Even at his peak, Tamou wasn't in the top 3 Leaders at the Cows...
Furthermore, I've never compared Wade to him as a leader... Moreso, I would think it's quite obvious (especially being afforded hindsight) what the difference between a player like Wade Graham is - And the nothings you keep throwing up.

We've got a team of kids that the likes of Tamou & Mbye can't lead... I'd have thought it's been quite obvious.
How would they go leading men?

Because you're saying that now, with the benefit of hindsight. Of course it's easy to say all the players we've signed in the past fail your mystical leadership test - because they've all been bad. But someone like Josh Reynolds is exactly what you're talking about: absolute 100% effort, never say die, leave it all out on the field. His nickname is literally "grub". And he was crap. Tamou has seen and done it all, consumate professional, great trainer, leads by example. Crap. Russell Packer was a hard man, enforcer type, the pack leader we'd been missing. Crap. Why? Because the Tigers overvalued their intangibles relative to their actual ability to play football. On the other hand, Gareth Ellis was a brilliant, brilliant footballer - why do you need to gild the lily with made up BS about his magical leadership powers?

All you're saying is that the next past it old hack would definitely be different from all the ones we've had in the past for reasons you can't explain other than you think this one tries harder, even though trying hard was literally the primary skill of someone like Josh Reynolds.

To be honest, this whole discussion is ludicrous on its face. I'm sorry, I've tried to be nice but the idea that Wade flipping Graham in 2022 is going to deliver anything more than a bunch of work for the rehab staff... I just don't think there's a conversation to be had.

Let's chat again in a year. You can laugh at me when the Sharks are premiers because of Wade Graham and Dale Finucane (TBF I think Finucane is ok - but based on the fact he has actually delivered positive on field contributions as a player in living memory, not because he has magic leadership powers).

They're not mystical leadership qualities, They're actually measurable.... Not just in professional sport, And have been for a long, long time...
The fact you're comparing Josh Reynolds or Moses Mbye to Gareth Ellis (Or even Wade Graham for that matter)
Tells me all I need to know about anything you've written here...

 

[twentyforty]

We’ve never had the cleanout we needed…

Just as a matter of interest, what do you mean by a "cleanout"? Because you know teams have to have a full roster, right? You obviously don't rate lots of the current roster, and it's hard to blame you, but we're not going to fix it by starting the season with half a dozen players on our books.

Understood, It's something we should have done when we lost most our key players in 2017.
What I mean is - Stop signing the players that they think are going to get us just over the line (From 9th to 8th) and start building them.
Stop signing gap stops like Mbye and Reynolds... We should have offered stupid money to Maloney even post Panthers
Sign some leadership, Some blokes who'll fight to the death and real toilers.
Stop overpaying to keep unproven junior talent (Like Suli) It's not hard to remember we paid 450k a year to Brooks & Moses in 2014 - Before they'd even played grade really....
Part of the reason we couldn't surround them with quality. Overpaying for Woods, Simona and the like...
For what - Our jnr pathways has seemed non existent since those days anyway.
We have more than enough skilled kids to pick from - We need some CHARACTER & LEADERSHIP
We've not had any since the last of the Pre Merger guys finished up... Blokes like Senter, Skando and Galea would drag these blokes into line.

I'd almost throw some money at a type like or Wade Graham, Best footy is well behind him... Good Footy Head, Would be good around Halves, Back Row and Centre.
Luke Lewis would have been perfect.... That type of footballer.

We are so far from winning the comp it's not funny - At some point, We need to admit that...

Stop trying to win the comp next year - And start trying to win it in 5-10 years.

The thing is, you're asking for several different things all at the same time. You don't want "stop gaps" or short term solutions, but you want to throw money at Wade Graham. You don't want to overpay unproven youth, but you want the club to build from within.

Sorry, I don't mean to have a crack because I totally agree that the club needs a long-term plan. The problem as I see it, though, is actually rather more simple: they have been crap at identifying talent for years. There isn't a single recipe for success other than recognising when a player is going to contribute.

How do clubs like Melbourne manage to keep their Cameron Munsters where we lose our James Tedescos? Why was Luke Lewis a brilliant veteran signing for the Sharks when James Tamou has been a crap one for us? Why did we give Nofoaluma a four-year deal at the absolute peak of his cost when the Raiders have lost Dugan, Ferguson, Milford, Cotric and more yet managed to find cheap replacements? I honestly think it comes down to identifying and properly valuing talent more than anything.

What I'm saying is there isn't a sweeping one-size-fits-all solution. We should be doing all of building from our own juniors, looking to poach talent from elsewhere, finding undervalued players on the open market and making marquee free agent signings. We just have to stop being useless at valuing all of them.

I don't think I am mate...
Wade Graham isn't a stop gap mate, He's of high character and would be of great assistance to a lot of our young players... We've got Garner, Blore, Leilua, Even Twal to a degree... All young players - Who's teaching them the tricks? Who's teaching them how tough you need to be? Who's teaching them how to keep going when you don't think you can... Who... It certainly wasn't Chris Lawrence.
There no point having all the best junior talent when there's no one to show them anything.... I used Wade Graham as an example - He would also be handy in the halves and centre to a degree... He's a footballer. A tough one.
There's a difference between paying too much for local talent and keeping local talent. We paid Brooks and Moses almost the going rate for an established half at the time... Barely played a game. Would we have lost them if we paid $250 instead of $450k? (Keeping in mind for 2015 they both went to $600k... This is 8 Years ago - When they didn't have 1 season behind them)
Needless to say Meyer didn't last long after that... Then Cleary signed a heap of busted stop gaps.... Woods offer from us was the best part of a million dollars, Went to the dogs for 800, Then to the sharks for 600... If we're overpaying, We need to overpay for Character, Not talent.... Build a team on Character and it will attract talent... A team of Talent won't attract character
(RIP WESTS TIGERS 2005-2011)

Gareth Ellis was super special, But there is another one out there - There just has to be.

Ok well this is where we disagree. If you think Wade Graham is the answer I'm afraid you're in dreamland. He's 31 and he's played an average of about 16 games a season over the past four years - he's exactly the same sort of busted, past-it old player we've signed and been let down by over and over again. What on earth makes you think his veteran leadership will be materially different from that provided by Tamou, Mbye, Ballin, Packer, Reynolds, Anasta or Matulino?

We don't need a "veteran footballer to show the kids the tricks". We need good footballers who can materially improve the roster on the field. We've tried recruiting character, over and over again. If we want character and know-how, it should be in the coaching team - not on the field, unless it can also contribute. **No successful team recruits past it players because of their "leadership".**

The thing is, when you say "stop gap" what you seem to mean is "bad player". How on earth is Wade Graham (31) not a stop gap when Josh Reynolds (29 when he signed for us) was? Just your idea of who's going to be a good role model, it appears.

Good post mate!!
And for others who may have trouble understanding what leadership is...
“Desire is the mother of leadership.
It gives birth to and nourishes leadership, encourages its growth.”. - twentyforty.

 

[2041]

We’ve never had the cleanout we needed…

Just as a matter of interest, what do you mean by a "cleanout"? Because you know teams have to have a full roster, right? You obviously don't rate lots of the current roster, and it's hard to blame you, but we're not going to fix it by starting the season with half a dozen players on our books.

Understood, It's something we should have done when we lost most our key players in 2017.
What I mean is - Stop signing the players that they think are going to get us just over the line (From 9th to 8th) and start building them.
Stop signing gap stops like Mbye and Reynolds... We should have offered stupid money to Maloney even post Panthers
Sign some leadership, Some blokes who'll fight to the death and real toilers.
Stop overpaying to keep unproven junior talent (Like Suli) It's not hard to remember we paid 450k a year to Brooks & Moses in 2014 - Before they'd even played grade really....
Part of the reason we couldn't surround them with quality. Overpaying for Woods, Simona and the like...
For what - Our jnr pathways has seemed non existent since those days anyway.
We have more than enough skilled kids to pick from - We need some CHARACTER & LEADERSHIP
We've not had any since the last of the Pre Merger guys finished up... Blokes like Senter, Skando and Galea would drag these blokes into line.

I'd almost throw some money at a type like or Wade Graham, Best footy is well behind him... Good Footy Head, Would be good around Halves, Back Row and Centre.
Luke Lewis would have been perfect.... That type of footballer.

We are so far from winning the comp it's not funny - At some point, We need to admit that...

Stop trying to win the comp next year - And start trying to win it in 5-10 years.

The thing is, you're asking for several different things all at the same time. You don't want "stop gaps" or short term solutions, but you want to throw money at Wade Graham. You don't want to overpay unproven youth, but you want the club to build from within.

Sorry, I don't mean to have a crack because I totally agree that the club needs a long-term plan. The problem as I see it, though, is actually rather more simple: they have been crap at identifying talent for years. There isn't a single recipe for success other than recognising when a player is going to contribute.

How do clubs like Melbourne manage to keep their Cameron Munsters where we lose our James Tedescos? Why was Luke Lewis a brilliant veteran signing for the Sharks when James Tamou has been a crap one for us? Why did we give Nofoaluma a four-year deal at the absolute peak of his cost when the Raiders have lost Dugan, Ferguson, Milford, Cotric and more yet managed to find cheap replacements? I honestly think it comes down to identifying and properly valuing talent more than anything.

What I'm saying is there isn't a sweeping one-size-fits-all solution. We should be doing all of building from our own juniors, looking to poach talent from elsewhere, finding undervalued players on the open market and making marquee free agent signings. We just have to stop being useless at valuing all of them.

I don't think I am mate...
Wade Graham isn't a stop gap mate, He's of high character and would be of great assistance to a lot of our young players... We've got Garner, Blore, Leilua, Even Twal to a degree... All young players - Who's teaching them the tricks? Who's teaching them how tough you need to be? Who's teaching them how to keep going when you don't think you can... Who... It certainly wasn't Chris Lawrence.
There no point having all the best junior talent when there's no one to show them anything.... I used Wade Graham as an example - He would also be handy in the halves and centre to a degree... He's a footballer. A tough one.
There's a difference between paying too much for local talent and keeping local talent. We paid Brooks and Moses almost the going rate for an established half at the time... Barely played a game. Would we have lost them if we paid $250 instead of $450k? (Keeping in mind for 2015 they both went to $600k... This is 8 Years ago - When they didn't have 1 season behind them)
Needless to say Meyer didn't last long after that... Then Cleary signed a heap of busted stop gaps.... Woods offer from us was the best part of a million dollars, Went to the dogs for 800, Then to the sharks for 600... If we're overpaying, We need to overpay for Character, Not talent.... Build a team on Character and it will attract talent... A team of Talent won't attract character
(RIP WESTS TIGERS 2005-2011)

Gareth Ellis was super special, But there is another one out there - There just has to be.

Ok well this is where we disagree. If you think Wade Graham is the answer I'm afraid you're in dreamland. He's 31 and he's played an average of about 16 games a season over the past four years - he's exactly the same sort of busted, past-it old player we've signed and been let down by over and over again. What on earth makes you think his veteran leadership will be materially different from that provided by Tamou, Mbye, Ballin, Packer, Reynolds, Anasta or Matulino?

We don't need a "veteran footballer to show the kids the tricks". We need good footballers who can materially improve the roster on the field. We've tried recruiting character, over and over again. If we want character and know-how, it should be in the coaching team - not on the field, unless it can also contribute. No successful team recruits past it players because of their "leadership".

The thing is, when you say "stop gap" what you seem to mean is "bad player". How on earth is Wade Graham (31) not a stop gap when Josh Reynolds (29 when he signed for us) was? Just your idea of who's going to be a good role model, it appears.

You're not catching what I'm kicking mate, Or maybe I'm not kicking it as well as I could be....
I'm not overly suggesting We sign Wade Graham... But we need that type of Guy.. Nor would I suggest he's any sort of saviour... But he never ever gives up - And that's the type of Character we need...
100% guts... Will crawl through a river of crap for a win.
Although, His "16 Games a season" Would pale in Comparison to the guys (We actually did buy) you yourself are comparing him to... Would I take Wade Grahams average 16 over Matt Ballins average of 1... Yeah, Probably... Furthermore - When comparing his leadership, The guys you're comparing him to also pale in comparison to him in this area.

We've been lay down merchants for far too long.

I think we're talking about a different kind of "Character" You seem to be implying it's moral character - Good people... I'm talking about the kind of blokes you take to war with you... that lead by actions... Leaders of men.
And in the last 20 years - I can only really think of one that we've signed... One that every player in that team knows is going to bring it - No matter what.

One isn't enough...

No, I totally get what you're saying. It's just that you're not offering anything to explain why Wade Graham (or any other old lag) is going to provide this never-say-die attitude that will get the rest of the players performing above themselves in a way that all the other "proven leaders" we've signed didn't. What's different about him compared with Tamou or Packer (when we signed them)? Wade Graham has a career winning percentage of 49.8%; James Tamou 55.6%. Where does Graham's mysterious aura of invincibility come from? Because as it turns out he's crawled through a river of crap for a win on 259 occasions and on 130 of them has failed to get one.

And yes, I know you don't mean Graham specifically. But that makes your point even weaker: what you're asking for is generic leadership abilities that you can't define beyond saying apparently Wade Graham has them, and which we've repeatedly tried to recruit for and failed.

I also know you don't mean "good blokes". We didn't recruit Packer or McQueen or Matulino because they would be popular in the sheds - we wanted "enforcers" or "pack leaders". Again, pointless - because they were all past it.

We don't need "leadership", especially not when it comes from busted old players whose best years are half a decade behind them. We need good footballers.

We've had good footballers - It didn't work!!
We've had generational players - players that changed the game... It worked 3/14 years they were here.
We need workers, toilers... Blokes that aren't afraid to do the hard yards... I've been a worker all my life, I know what they look like.
Wade Graham is one, Gareth Ellis is another, The blokes you've mentioned aren't... That's why we are where we are...

We've got no work ethic, No Backbone... It's been our problem for a very long time. Never bothered to roll up the sleeves, graft away and get a win... (Give the ball to Benji and he'll dance us to victory) It's engrained in us...

I'd rather watch 13 Wade Grahams get lapped giving everything that watch our blokes give up chase on a line break, standing with hands on hips... Or not smacking blokes in Defence.

That's my opinion, Happy for you to not agree with it.

It's not about agreeing or not. I'm asking how you know Wade Graham has these magical super duper effort skills where Tamou, Packer, McQueen, Matulino, Mbye and so forth did not, and you've not even tried to explain. You keep saying Wade Graham (and apparently others like him) have this guts and glory thing but you can't and don't try to define it - it's just there, in a way you somehow recognise even when nobody else does. Then you more or less admit that you don't even think Wade Graham would be particularly good. So basically what you're saying is that you think the Tigers roster should be constructed based on possession of characteristics you cannot define even at the explicit exclusion of actual footballing ability. It's nonsense I'm afraid.

OK Mate,
When we Signed Packer, Matulino and all the Rest of the Nufties we signed you're comparing him to... Put all of them, And Wade Graham in a line - Who's your first pick, And why?

Mine is Wade Graham, Or Dale Finucane, Or Gareth Ellis....
I have said why, you just don't care to read it...

The Players I've mentioned are the leaders of men, There are natural leaders and there are followers. Unless you're 15 or never been employed, They're quite easy to notice.
I've seen nothing in the career of any of the Players you're comparing Graham to, that would lead me to think they're leaders of men... They're followers - All of them. Even at his peak, Tamou wasn't in the top 3 Leaders at the Cows...
Furthermore, I've never compared Wade to him as a leader... Moreso, I would think it's quite obvious (especially being afforded hindsight) what the difference between a player like Wade Graham is - And the nothings you keep throwing up.

We've got a team of kids that the likes of Tamou & Mbye can't lead... I'd have thought it's been quite obvious.
How would they go leading men?

Because you're saying that now, with the benefit of hindsight. Of course it's easy to say all the players we've signed in the past fail your mystical leadership test - because they've all been bad. But someone like Josh Reynolds is exactly what you're talking about: absolute 100% effort, never say die, leave it all out on the field. His nickname is literally "grub". And he was crap. Tamou has seen and done it all, consumate professional, great trainer, leads by example. Crap. Russell Packer was a hard man, enforcer type, the pack leader we'd been missing. Crap. Why? Because the Tigers overvalued their intangibles relative to their actual ability to play football. On the other hand, Gareth Ellis was a brilliant, brilliant footballer - why do you need to gild the lily with made up BS about his magical leadership powers?

All you're saying is that the next past it old hack would definitely be different from all the ones we've had in the past for reasons you can't explain other than you think this one tries harder, even though trying hard was literally the primary skill of someone like Josh Reynolds.

To be honest, this whole discussion is ludicrous on its face. I'm sorry, I've tried to be nice but the idea that Wade flipping Graham in 2022 is going to deliver anything more than a bunch of work for the rehab staff... I just don't think there's a conversation to be had.

Let's chat again in a year. You can laugh at me when the Sharks are premiers because of Wade Graham and Dale Finucane (TBF I think Finucane is ok - but based on the fact he has actually delivered positive on field contributions as a player in living memory, not because he has magic leadership powers).

They're not mystical leadership qualities, They're actually measurable.... Not just in professional sport, And have been for a long, long time...
The fact you're comparing Josh Reynolds or Moses Mbye to Gareth Ellis (Or even Wade Graham for that matter)
Tells me all I need to know about anything you've written here...

This is what I said about Gareth Ellis: "brilliant, brilliant footballer"

This is what I said about Josh Reynolds: "crap"

This is your response: "The fact you’re comparing Josh Reynolds... to Gareth Ellis... Tells me all I need to know about anything you’ve written here"

There's obviously absolutely zero point trying to engage with you further, as you just aren't interested in listening to anything but your own fairy stories. You've now reached the stage of pretending I'm saying things that are more or less the exact opposite of what I've said, which is where I'll leave it.

Good luck to both you and Wade Graham. I'm sure you'll do great.

 

[Kelce68]

We’ve never had the cleanout we needed…

Just as a matter of interest, what do you mean by a "cleanout"? Because you know teams have to have a full roster, right? You obviously don't rate lots of the current roster, and it's hard to blame you, but we're not going to fix it by starting the season with half a dozen players on our books.

Understood, It's something we should have done when we lost most our key players in 2017.
What I mean is - Stop signing the players that they think are going to get us just over the line (From 9th to 8th) and start building them.
Stop signing gap stops like Mbye and Reynolds... We should have offered stupid money to Maloney even post Panthers
Sign some leadership, Some blokes who'll fight to the death and real toilers.
Stop overpaying to keep unproven junior talent (Like Suli) It's not hard to remember we paid 450k a year to Brooks & Moses in 2014 - Before they'd even played grade really....
Part of the reason we couldn't surround them with quality. Overpaying for Woods, Simona and the like...
For what - Our jnr pathways has seemed non existent since those days anyway.
We have more than enough skilled kids to pick from - We need some CHARACTER & LEADERSHIP
We've not had any since the last of the Pre Merger guys finished up... Blokes like Senter, Skando and Galea would drag these blokes into line.

I'd almost throw some money at a type like or Wade Graham, Best footy is well behind him... Good Footy Head, Would be good around Halves, Back Row and Centre.
Luke Lewis would have been perfect.... That type of footballer.

We are so far from winning the comp it's not funny - At some point, We need to admit that...

Stop trying to win the comp next year - And start trying to win it in 5-10 years.

The thing is, you're asking for several different things all at the same time. You don't want "stop gaps" or short term solutions, but you want to throw money at Wade Graham. You don't want to overpay unproven youth, but you want the club to build from within.

Sorry, I don't mean to have a crack because I totally agree that the club needs a long-term plan. The problem as I see it, though, is actually rather more simple: they have been crap at identifying talent for years. There isn't a single recipe for success other than recognising when a player is going to contribute.

How do clubs like Melbourne manage to keep their Cameron Munsters where we lose our James Tedescos? Why was Luke Lewis a brilliant veteran signing for the Sharks when James Tamou has been a crap one for us? Why did we give Nofoaluma a four-year deal at the absolute peak of his cost when the Raiders have lost Dugan, Ferguson, Milford, Cotric and more yet managed to find cheap replacements? I honestly think it comes down to identifying and properly valuing talent more than anything.

What I'm saying is there isn't a sweeping one-size-fits-all solution. We should be doing all of building from our own juniors, looking to poach talent from elsewhere, finding undervalued players on the open market and making marquee free agent signings. We just have to stop being useless at valuing all of them.

I don't think I am mate...
Wade Graham isn't a stop gap mate, He's of high character and would be of great assistance to a lot of our young players... We've got Garner, Blore, Leilua, Even Twal to a degree... All young players - Who's teaching them the tricks? Who's teaching them how tough you need to be? Who's teaching them how to keep going when you don't think you can... Who... It certainly wasn't Chris Lawrence.
There no point having all the best junior talent when there's no one to show them anything.... I used Wade Graham as an example - He would also be handy in the halves and centre to a degree... He's a footballer. A tough one.
There's a difference between paying too much for local talent and keeping local talent. We paid Brooks and Moses almost the going rate for an established half at the time... Barely played a game. Would we have lost them if we paid $250 instead of $450k? (Keeping in mind for 2015 they both went to $600k... This is 8 Years ago - When they didn't have 1 season behind them)
Needless to say Meyer didn't last long after that... Then Cleary signed a heap of busted stop gaps.... Woods offer from us was the best part of a million dollars, Went to the dogs for 800, Then to the sharks for 600... If we're overpaying, We need to overpay for Character, Not talent.... Build a team on Character and it will attract talent... A team of Talent won't attract character
(RIP WESTS TIGERS 2005-2011)

Gareth Ellis was super special, But there is another one out there - There just has to be.

Ok well this is where we disagree. If you think Wade Graham is the answer I'm afraid you're in dreamland. He's 31 and he's played an average of about 16 games a season over the past four years - he's exactly the same sort of busted, past-it old player we've signed and been let down by over and over again. What on earth makes you think his veteran leadership will be materially different from that provided by Tamou, Mbye, Ballin, Packer, Reynolds, Anasta or Matulino?

We don't need a "veteran footballer to show the kids the tricks". We need good footballers who can materially improve the roster on the field. We've tried recruiting character, over and over again. If we want character and know-how, it should be in the coaching team - not on the field, unless it can also contribute. **No successful team recruits past it players because of their "leadership".**

The thing is, when you say "stop gap" what you seem to mean is "bad player". How on earth is Wade Graham (31) not a stop gap when Josh Reynolds (29 when he signed for us) was? Just your idea of who's going to be a good role model, it appears.

Good post mate!!
And for others who may have trouble understanding what leadership is...
“Desire is the mother of leadership.
It gives birth to and nourishes leadership, encourages its growth.”. - twentyforty.

Did you just quote yourself?

 

[BAGNF05]

We’ve never had the cleanout we needed…

Just as a matter of interest, what do you mean by a "cleanout"? Because you know teams have to have a full roster, right? You obviously don't rate lots of the current roster, and it's hard to blame you, but we're not going to fix it by starting the season with half a dozen players on our books.

Understood, It's something we should have done when we lost most our key players in 2017.
What I mean is - Stop signing the players that they think are going to get us just over the line (From 9th to 8th) and start building them.
Stop signing gap stops like Mbye and Reynolds... We should have offered stupid money to Maloney even post Panthers
Sign some leadership, Some blokes who'll fight to the death and real toilers.
Stop overpaying to keep unproven junior talent (Like Suli) It's not hard to remember we paid 450k a year to Brooks & Moses in 2014 - Before they'd even played grade really....
Part of the reason we couldn't surround them with quality. Overpaying for Woods, Simona and the like...
For what - Our jnr pathways has seemed non existent since those days anyway.
We have more than enough skilled kids to pick from - We need some CHARACTER & LEADERSHIP
We've not had any since the last of the Pre Merger guys finished up... Blokes like Senter, Skando and Galea would drag these blokes into line.

I'd almost throw some money at a type like or Wade Graham, Best footy is well behind him... Good Footy Head, Would be good around Halves, Back Row and Centre.
Luke Lewis would have been perfect.... That type of footballer.

We are so far from winning the comp it's not funny - At some point, We need to admit that...

Stop trying to win the comp next year - And start trying to win it in 5-10 years.

The thing is, you're asking for several different things all at the same time. You don't want "stop gaps" or short term solutions, but you want to throw money at Wade Graham. You don't want to overpay unproven youth, but you want the club to build from within.

Sorry, I don't mean to have a crack because I totally agree that the club needs a long-term plan. The problem as I see it, though, is actually rather more simple: they have been crap at identifying talent for years. There isn't a single recipe for success other than recognising when a player is going to contribute.

How do clubs like Melbourne manage to keep their Cameron Munsters where we lose our James Tedescos? Why was Luke Lewis a brilliant veteran signing for the Sharks when James Tamou has been a crap one for us? Why did we give Nofoaluma a four-year deal at the absolute peak of his cost when the Raiders have lost Dugan, Ferguson, Milford, Cotric and more yet managed to find cheap replacements? I honestly think it comes down to identifying and properly valuing talent more than anything.

What I'm saying is there isn't a sweeping one-size-fits-all solution. We should be doing all of building from our own juniors, looking to poach talent from elsewhere, finding undervalued players on the open market and making marquee free agent signings. We just have to stop being useless at valuing all of them.

I don't think I am mate...
Wade Graham isn't a stop gap mate, He's of high character and would be of great assistance to a lot of our young players... We've got Garner, Blore, Leilua, Even Twal to a degree... All young players - Who's teaching them the tricks? Who's teaching them how tough you need to be? Who's teaching them how to keep going when you don't think you can... Who... It certainly wasn't Chris Lawrence.
There no point having all the best junior talent when there's no one to show them anything.... I used Wade Graham as an example - He would also be handy in the halves and centre to a degree... He's a footballer. A tough one.
There's a difference between paying too much for local talent and keeping local talent. We paid Brooks and Moses almost the going rate for an established half at the time... Barely played a game. Would we have lost them if we paid $250 instead of $450k? (Keeping in mind for 2015 they both went to $600k... This is 8 Years ago - When they didn't have 1 season behind them)
Needless to say Meyer didn't last long after that... Then Cleary signed a heap of busted stop gaps.... Woods offer from us was the best part of a million dollars, Went to the dogs for 800, Then to the sharks for 600... If we're overpaying, We need to overpay for Character, Not talent.... Build a team on Character and it will attract talent... A team of Talent won't attract character
(RIP WESTS TIGERS 2005-2011)

Gareth Ellis was super special, But there is another one out there - There just has to be.

Ok well this is where we disagree. If you think Wade Graham is the answer I'm afraid you're in dreamland. He's 31 and he's played an average of about 16 games a season over the past four years - he's exactly the same sort of busted, past-it old player we've signed and been let down by over and over again. What on earth makes you think his veteran leadership will be materially different from that provided by Tamou, Mbye, Ballin, Packer, Reynolds, Anasta or Matulino?

We don't need a "veteran footballer to show the kids the tricks". We need good footballers who can materially improve the roster on the field. We've tried recruiting character, over and over again. If we want character and know-how, it should be in the coaching team - not on the field, unless it can also contribute. No successful team recruits past it players because of their "leadership".

The thing is, when you say "stop gap" what you seem to mean is "bad player". How on earth is Wade Graham (31) not a stop gap when Josh Reynolds (29 when he signed for us) was? Just your idea of who's going to be a good role model, it appears.

You're not catching what I'm kicking mate, Or maybe I'm not kicking it as well as I could be....
I'm not overly suggesting We sign Wade Graham... But we need that type of Guy.. Nor would I suggest he's any sort of saviour... But he never ever gives up - And that's the type of Character we need...
100% guts... Will crawl through a river of crap for a win.
Although, His "16 Games a season" Would pale in Comparison to the guys (We actually did buy) you yourself are comparing him to... Would I take Wade Grahams average 16 over Matt Ballins average of 1... Yeah, Probably... Furthermore - When comparing his leadership, The guys you're comparing him to also pale in comparison to him in this area.

We've been lay down merchants for far too long.

I think we're talking about a different kind of "Character" You seem to be implying it's moral character - Good people... I'm talking about the kind of blokes you take to war with you... that lead by actions... Leaders of men.
And in the last 20 years - I can only really think of one that we've signed... One that every player in that team knows is going to bring it - No matter what.

One isn't enough...

No, I totally get what you're saying. It's just that you're not offering anything to explain why Wade Graham (or any other old lag) is going to provide this never-say-die attitude that will get the rest of the players performing above themselves in a way that all the other "proven leaders" we've signed didn't. What's different about him compared with Tamou or Packer (when we signed them)? Wade Graham has a career winning percentage of 49.8%; James Tamou 55.6%. Where does Graham's mysterious aura of invincibility come from? Because as it turns out he's crawled through a river of crap for a win on 259 occasions and on 130 of them has failed to get one.

And yes, I know you don't mean Graham specifically. But that makes your point even weaker: what you're asking for is generic leadership abilities that you can't define beyond saying apparently Wade Graham has them, and which we've repeatedly tried to recruit for and failed.

I also know you don't mean "good blokes". We didn't recruit Packer or McQueen or Matulino because they would be popular in the sheds - we wanted "enforcers" or "pack leaders". Again, pointless - because they were all past it.

We don't need "leadership", especially not when it comes from busted old players whose best years are half a decade behind them. We need good footballers.

We've had good footballers - It didn't work!!
We've had generational players - players that changed the game... It worked 3/14 years they were here.
We need workers, toilers... Blokes that aren't afraid to do the hard yards... I've been a worker all my life, I know what they look like.
Wade Graham is one, Gareth Ellis is another, The blokes you've mentioned aren't... That's why we are where we are...

We've got no work ethic, No Backbone... It's been our problem for a very long time. Never bothered to roll up the sleeves, graft away and get a win... (Give the ball to Benji and he'll dance us to victory) It's engrained in us...

I'd rather watch 13 Wade Grahams get lapped giving everything that watch our blokes give up chase on a line break, standing with hands on hips... Or not smacking blokes in Defence.

That's my opinion, Happy for you to not agree with it.

It's not about agreeing or not. I'm asking how you know Wade Graham has these magical super duper effort skills where Tamou, Packer, McQueen, Matulino, Mbye and so forth did not, and you've not even tried to explain. You keep saying Wade Graham (and apparently others like him) have this guts and glory thing but you can't and don't try to define it - it's just there, in a way you somehow recognise even when nobody else does. Then you more or less admit that you don't even think Wade Graham would be particularly good. So basically what you're saying is that you think the Tigers roster should be constructed based on possession of characteristics you cannot define even at the explicit exclusion of actual footballing ability. It's nonsense I'm afraid.

OK Mate,
When we Signed Packer, Matulino and all the Rest of the Nufties we signed you're comparing him to... Put all of them, And Wade Graham in a line - Who's your first pick, And why?

Mine is Wade Graham, Or Dale Finucane, Or Gareth Ellis....
I have said why, you just don't care to read it...

The Players I've mentioned are the leaders of men, There are natural leaders and there are followers. Unless you're 15 or never been employed, They're quite easy to notice.
I've seen nothing in the career of any of the Players you're comparing Graham to, that would lead me to think they're leaders of men... They're followers - All of them. Even at his peak, Tamou wasn't in the top 3 Leaders at the Cows...
Furthermore, I've never compared Wade to him as a leader... Moreso, I would think it's quite obvious (especially being afforded hindsight) what the difference between a player like Wade Graham is - And the nothings you keep throwing up.

We've got a team of kids that the likes of Tamou & Mbye can't lead... I'd have thought it's been quite obvious.
How would they go leading men?

Because you're saying that now, with the benefit of hindsight. Of course it's easy to say all the players we've signed in the past fail your mystical leadership test - because they've all been bad. But someone like Josh Reynolds is exactly what you're talking about: absolute 100% effort, never say die, leave it all out on the field. His nickname is literally "grub". And he was crap. Tamou has seen and done it all, consumate professional, great trainer, leads by example. Crap. Russell Packer was a hard man, enforcer type, the pack leader we'd been missing. Crap. Why? Because the Tigers overvalued their intangibles relative to their actual ability to play football. On the other hand, Gareth Ellis was a brilliant, brilliant footballer - why do you need to gild the lily with made up BS about his magical leadership powers?

All you're saying is that the next past it old hack would definitely be different from all the ones we've had in the past for reasons you can't explain other than you think this one tries harder, even though trying hard was literally the primary skill of someone like Josh Reynolds.

To be honest, this whole discussion is ludicrous on its face. I'm sorry, I've tried to be nice but the idea that Wade flipping Graham in 2022 is going to deliver anything more than a bunch of work for the rehab staff... I just don't think there's a conversation to be had.

Let's chat again in a year. You can laugh at me when the Sharks are premiers because of Wade Graham and Dale Finucane (TBF I think Finucane is ok - but based on the fact he has actually delivered positive on field contributions as a player in living memory, not because he has magic leadership powers).

Massively disagree regards to your comparisons using Reynolds. Reynolds has a go, but he does it without thought of his teammates or game plan. He used to fly out of the defensive line which when he inevitably missed the tackle put all his teammates under pressure. He was a chook with his head cut off. High energy but low in skills, smarts or team work.

I get what old mate means using Wade Graham as an example, Luke Lewis was similar. Both very talented but worked incredibly hard but in a way that was all about the TEAM, they'd produce effort plays not necessarily just to look good themselves but to benefit the team. We haven't had one of those players for years

This is a spot on comment. We have a bunch of players who work against each other. Think Liddle spraying a teammate rather than making an effort on a defender in the Storm game, BJ blaming his coach rather than his laziness, Noff blaming inside defenders, Packer and Reyno leaving at HT. Guys like Wade Graham, Luke Lewis, Finucane, Josh Hodgson even, that’s just not their MO. I hope bringing Sheens back will stop us just picking up any old Nuffie after a pay day. Targeted signings only please.

 

[Tiger Tarl]

https://wwos.nine.com.au/nrl/the-mole-penrith-panthers-api-koroisau-contract-tariq-sims/80c162c1-d56b-47eb-bdff-1f00135d3f2c

Penrith are playing hardball with premiership-winning hooker Api Koroisau.

Wide World of Sports has learned that the premiers have told the classy dummy half that they can't offer him a contract beyond his current deal, which expires at the end of next season.

But at the same time, the Panthers are refusing to release Koroisau for 2022 to enable him to sign one last long-term deal.

Koroisau turned 29 two days ago and usually, when a club cannot guarantee a veteran a multi-season contract, it is prepared to cut him loose.

But the Panthers are determined to retain Koroisau for 2022, despite the fact that several clubs are willing to give him two or three year contracts on big dollars.

The stalemate has resulted in a tense situation between player and club.

Penrith's premiership win has put them in a tricky salary cap situation, with the market value of their young grand final winners skyrocketing.

Strike forward Viliame Kikau and dynamic fullback Dylan Edwards are just two players also coming off contract at the end of next season who are already in hot demand.

At least two grand final stars will have to be released for 2023, with Koroisau the first to go.



... So you're telling me there's a chance...?

 

[Devon Head]

We’ve never had the cleanout we needed…

Just as a matter of interest, what do you mean by a "cleanout"? Because you know teams have to have a full roster, right? You obviously don't rate lots of the current roster, and it's hard to blame you, but we're not going to fix it by starting the season with half a dozen players on our books.

Understood, It's something we should have done when we lost most our key players in 2017.
What I mean is - Stop signing the players that they think are going to get us just over the line (From 9th to 8th) and start building them.
Stop signing gap stops like Mbye and Reynolds... We should have offered stupid money to Maloney even post Panthers
Sign some leadership, Some blokes who'll fight to the death and real toilers.
Stop overpaying to keep unproven junior talent (Like Suli) It's not hard to remember we paid 450k a year to Brooks & Moses in 2014 - Before they'd even played grade really....
Part of the reason we couldn't surround them with quality. Overpaying for Woods, Simona and the like...
For what - Our jnr pathways has seemed non existent since those days anyway.
We have more than enough skilled kids to pick from - We need some CHARACTER & LEADERSHIP
We've not had any since the last of the Pre Merger guys finished up... Blokes like Senter, Skando and Galea would drag these blokes into line.

I'd almost throw some money at a type like or Wade Graham, Best footy is well behind him... Good Footy Head, Would be good around Halves, Back Row and Centre.
Luke Lewis would have been perfect.... That type of footballer.

We are so far from winning the comp it's not funny - At some point, We need to admit that...

Stop trying to win the comp next year - And start trying to win it in 5-10 years.

The thing is, you're asking for several different things all at the same time. You don't want "stop gaps" or short term solutions, but you want to throw money at Wade Graham. You don't want to overpay unproven youth, but you want the club to build from within.

Sorry, I don't mean to have a crack because I totally agree that the club needs a long-term plan. The problem as I see it, though, is actually rather more simple: they have been crap at identifying talent for years. There isn't a single recipe for success other than recognising when a player is going to contribute.

How do clubs like Melbourne manage to keep their Cameron Munsters where we lose our James Tedescos? Why was Luke Lewis a brilliant veteran signing for the Sharks when James Tamou has been a crap one for us? Why did we give Nofoaluma a four-year deal at the absolute peak of his cost when the Raiders have lost Dugan, Ferguson, Milford, Cotric and more yet managed to find cheap replacements? I honestly think it comes down to identifying and properly valuing talent more than anything.

What I'm saying is there isn't a sweeping one-size-fits-all solution. We should be doing all of building from our own juniors, looking to poach talent from elsewhere, finding undervalued players on the open market and making marquee free agent signings. We just have to stop being useless at valuing all of them.

I don't think I am mate...
Wade Graham isn't a stop gap mate, He's of high character and would be of great assistance to a lot of our young players... We've got Garner, Blore, Leilua, Even Twal to a degree... All young players - Who's teaching them the tricks? Who's teaching them how tough you need to be? Who's teaching them how to keep going when you don't think you can... Who... It certainly wasn't Chris Lawrence.
There no point having all the best junior talent when there's no one to show them anything.... I used Wade Graham as an example - He would also be handy in the halves and centre to a degree... He's a footballer. A tough one.
There's a difference between paying too much for local talent and keeping local talent. We paid Brooks and Moses almost the going rate for an established half at the time... Barely played a game. Would we have lost them if we paid $250 instead of $450k? (Keeping in mind for 2015 they both went to $600k... This is 8 Years ago - When they didn't have 1 season behind them)
Needless to say Meyer didn't last long after that... Then Cleary signed a heap of busted stop gaps.... Woods offer from us was the best part of a million dollars, Went to the dogs for 800, Then to the sharks for 600... If we're overpaying, We need to overpay for Character, Not talent.... Build a team on Character and it will attract talent... A team of Talent won't attract character
(RIP WESTS TIGERS 2005-2011)

Gareth Ellis was super special, But there is another one out there - There just has to be.

Someone like Wade Graham is a massive stop gap and a huge risk given his injury and concussion issues last few years. I see the sense in that type of player however I'd stay well clear of him personally.

 

[Tiger5150]

https://wwos.nine.com.au/nrl/the-mole-penrith-panthers-api-koroisau-contract-tariq-sims/80c162c1-d56b-47eb-bdff-1f00135d3f2c

Penrith are playing hardball with premiership-winning hooker Api Koroisau.

Wide World of Sports has learned that the premiers have told the classy dummy half that they can't offer him a contract beyond his current deal, which expires at the end of next season.

But at the same time, the Panthers are refusing to release Koroisau for 2022 to enable him to sign one last long-term deal.

Koroisau turned 29 two days ago and usually, when a club cannot guarantee a veteran a multi-season contract, it is prepared to cut him loose.

But the Panthers are determined to retain Koroisau for 2022, despite the fact that several clubs are willing to give him two or three year contracts on big dollars.

The stalemate has resulted in a tense situation between player and club.

Penrith's premiership win has put them in a tricky salary cap situation, with the market value of their young grand final winners skyrocketing.

Strike forward Viliame Kikau and dynamic fullback Dylan Edwards are just two players also coming off contract at the end of next season who are already in hot demand.

At least two grand final stars will have to be released for 2023, with Koroisau the first to go.



... So you're telling me there's a chance...?

Throw in Liddle to sweeten the deal and give them an option for 2022

 

[Jedi_Tiger]

https://wwos.nine.com.au/nrl/the-mole-penrith-panthers-api-koroisau-contract-tariq-sims/80c162c1-d56b-47eb-bdff-1f00135d3f2c

Penrith are playing hardball with premiership-winning hooker Api Koroisau.

Wide World of Sports has learned that the premiers have told the classy dummy half that they can't offer him a contract beyond his current deal, which expires at the end of next season.

But at the same time, the Panthers are refusing to release Koroisau for 2022 to enable him to sign one last long-term deal.

Koroisau turned 29 two days ago and usually, when a club cannot guarantee a veteran a multi-season contract, it is prepared to cut him loose.

But the Panthers are determined to retain Koroisau for 2022, despite the fact that several clubs are willing to give him two or three year contracts on big dollars.

The stalemate has resulted in a tense situation between player and club.

Penrith's premiership win has put them in a tricky salary cap situation, with the market value of their young grand final winners skyrocketing.

Strike forward Viliame Kikau and dynamic fullback Dylan Edwards are just two players also coming off contract at the end of next season who are already in hot demand.

At least two grand final stars will have to be released for 2023, with Koroisau the first to go.



... So you're telling me there's a chance...?

Throw in Liddle to sweeten the deal and give them an option for 2022

pack liddles bags and send him over to Penrith and we take Api