Signings, Suggestions & Rumours Discussion

[momo_amp_medo]

@willow - Papenhuyzen is a prodigious talent which was obvious to the discerning supporter throughout his career. I'm ;glad you are not involved in talent identification and recruitment for the club. As for Suli, there is no template for maturity or player development. While he realised his talent at Manly, I have no doubt this could have been achieved at WTs.

Also add Nathan Brown as another local junior not recognised by the Club.

prodigious talent:joy: That'll do me! I admire your use of hindsight but wow...

You are just embarrassing yourself now. He was selected in numerous junior rep sides (NSW Under Age, Aust Schoolboys, SG Ball Player of the Year) and his performances for the Storm confirm that talent. No hindsight whatsoever just appalling retention by the Club.

The number of blokes picked in junior rep sides who have no or average NRL careers is astronomical. Even just pick a random year, say 2010:

Junior Kangaroos: Dane Gagai, Michael Oldfield, Justin O'Neill, Ben Jones, Josh Mansour, Corey Norman, Sam Williams, James Cunningham, Cameron King, Evrett Vaurasi, Mark Nicholls, Josh Jackson, Gerard Beale, Matthew Wright, Tariq Sims, Mark Appleton, Kyle O'Donnell - I count 6 of those blokes getting any regular NRL time in 2019? And almost none of the forwards made anything of it.

Junior Kiwis: Glen Fisiiahi, Bill Tupou, Siuatonga Likiliki, Dean Whare, Drury Low, Carlos Tuimivave, Shaun Johnson, Lama Tasi, Matt McIlwrick, Marty Taupau, Jason Taumololo, Mark Ioane, Sebastine Ikahihifo, Sam Mataora, Nafe Seluini, Sam Lousi, Isaac Maliota - probably an even worse conversion rate for the Kiwis, I count 4 legit NRL first graders.

Even - pick up Paps and his 2015 Australian Schoolboys - Paps, Tyrone Roberts-Davis, Curtis Scott, Reuben Garrick, Tre Williams, Nathan Cleary, Scott Drinkwater, Jye Challenor, Blayke Brailey, Jayden Butterfield, Cam Murray, Adam Keighran, Reuben Cotter, David Fauid, Ray Stone, Bayley Faull, Daniel Vasquez

Where are half those blokes now? More than half. Where are they?

Your comments end up being farcical paws. You sound off some 4 or 5 legitimate decent Tigers juniors now at other clubs, throw in a couple of other debatable names, then point fingers at retention. Totally forgetting, of course, that Tigers tried quite aggressively to keep most of those footballers and were outdone by money or power clubs or dodgy manager behaviour. Tedesco and Woods; it would be like criticising Monaco for not holding onto Mbappe or Everton for not managing to keep Wayne Rooney.

I can take any club you fancy, any single club in the whole comp and point out players that they let go who made careers elsewhere.

It seems to me your obsession with Paps has tipped you over the edge, where all recruitment and retention decisions are tarred with the same brush, because of the blonde-haired dodgy-mo midget running around in reserves for Melbourne.

Yep agree totally. And if he was with our roster he would be struggling in cc.
I just think people should get over the fact that players change clubs and sometimes that works out for them. I say good luck to them Paps, Brown, Sirro, Woods, Moses etc. ... great let’s move on .... I am sure that there will be many more.

 

[Russell]

@willow - Papenhuyzen is a prodigious talent which was obvious to the discerning supporter throughout his career. I'm ;glad you are not involved in talent identification and recruitment for the club. As for Suli, there is no template for maturity or player development. While he realised his talent at Manly, I have no doubt this could have been achieved at WTs.

Also add Nathan Brown as another local junior not recognised by the Club.

prodigious talent:joy: That'll do me! I admire your use of hindsight but wow...

You are just embarrassing yourself now. He was selected in numerous junior rep sides (NSW Under Age, Aust Schoolboys, SG Ball Player of the Year) and his performances for the Storm confirm that talent. No hindsight whatsoever just appalling retention by the Club.

The number of blokes picked in junior rep sides who have no or average NRL careers is astronomical. Even just pick a random year, say 2010:

Junior Kangaroos: Dane Gagai, Michael Oldfield, Justin O'Neill, Ben Jones, Josh Mansour, Corey Norman, Sam Williams, James Cunningham, Cameron King, Evrett Vaurasi, Mark Nicholls, Josh Jackson, Gerard Beale, Matthew Wright, Tariq Sims, Mark Appleton, Kyle O'Donnell - I count 6 of those blokes getting any regular NRL time in 2019? And almost none of the forwards made anything of it.

Junior Kiwis: Glen Fisiiahi, Bill Tupou, Siuatonga Likiliki, Dean Whare, Drury Low, Carlos Tuimivave, Shaun Johnson, Lama Tasi, Matt McIlwrick, Marty Taupau, Jason Taumololo, Mark Ioane, Sebastine Ikahihifo, Sam Mataora, Nafe Seluini, Sam Lousi, Isaac Maliota - probably an even worse conversion rate for the Kiwis, I count 4 legit NRL first graders.

Even - pick up Paps and his 2015 Australian Schoolboys - Paps, Tyrone Roberts-Davis, Curtis Scott, Reuben Garrick, Tre Williams, Nathan Cleary, Scott Drinkwater, Jye Challenor, Blayke Brailey, Jayden Butterfield, Cam Murray, Adam Keighran, Reuben Cotter, David Fauid, Ray Stone, Bayley Faull, Daniel Vasquez

Where are half those blokes now? More than half. Where are they?

Your comments end up being farcical paws. You sound off some 4 or 5 legitimate decent Tigers juniors now at other clubs, throw in a couple of other debatable names, then point fingers at retention. Totally forgetting, of course, that Tigers tried quite aggressively to keep most of those footballers and were outdone by money or power clubs or dodgy manager behaviour. Tedesco and Woods; it would be like criticising Monaco for not holding onto Mbappe or Everton for not managing to keep Wayne Rooney.

I can take any club you fancy, any single club in the whole comp and point out players that they let go who made careers elsewhere.

It seems to me your obsession with Paps has tipped you over the edge, where all recruitment and retention decisions are tarred with the same brush, because of the blonde-haired dodgy-mo midget running around in reserves for Melbourne.


Yep agree totally. And if he was with our roster he would be struggling in cc.
I just think people should get over the fact that players change clubs and sometimes that works out for them. I say good luck to them Paps, Brown, Sirro, Woods, Moses etc. ... great let’s move on .... I am sure that there will be many more.

Agree Momo - good luck to them all except Slimy.

Really stood up tonight when his team needed him.

 

[jirskyr]

@gallagher Yes Woods is another,

Matthew Woods?

 

[colinbh]

@willow - Papenhuyzen is a prodigious talent which was obvious to the discerning supporter throughout his career. I'm ;glad you are not involved in talent identification and recruitment for the club. As for Suli, there is no template for maturity or player development. While he realised his talent at Manly, I have no doubt this could have been achieved at WTs.

Also add Nathan Brown as another local junior not recognised by the Club.

From my memory I remember that papenhuyzen was small, injury prone and to me anyway, unimpressive.

Suli is still overrated. It was hard for the club to “ realise his talent “ when he wouldn’t show up for training! ! ! He was given numerous chances so his sacking was his own fault, not the clubs.

Brown, back in the day, had a good motor, but that was about it. He cost Parra big time tonight and I suspect for the next few weeks.

There is no doubt that the club has made some ordinary decisions in regard to recruitment over the years, but they have also made some great ones. Players like Benji, Scott Prince, Richards, Mr T, Brett Hodgson, Matterson and our English friend come to mind.

We had some pretty good juniors who came through the ranks as well. Brooks, Moses, Tedesco, Farah, Woods.

So, overall, I would say that our recruitment has not been that bad, but the management of our financial situation needs some work.

 

[tony soprano]

@willow - Papenhuyzen is a prodigious talent which was obvious to the discerning supporter throughout his career. I'm ;glad you are not involved in talent identification and recruitment for the club. As for Suli, there is no template for maturity or player development. While he realised his talent at Manly, I have no doubt this could have been achieved at WTs.

Also add Nathan Brown as another local junior not recognised by the Club.


From my memory I remember that papenhuyzen was small, injury prone and to me anyway, unimpressive.

Suli is still overrated. It was hard for the club to “ realise his talent “ when he wouldn’t show up for training! ! ! He was given numerous chances so his sacking was his own fault, not the clubs.

Brown, back in the day, had a good motor, but that was about it. He cost Parra big time tonight and I suspect for the next few weeks.

There is no doubt that the club has made some ordinary decisions in regard to recruitment over the years, but they have also made some great ones. Players like Benji, Scott Prince, Richards, Mr T, Brett Hodgson, Matterson and our English friend come to mind.

We had some pretty good juniors who came through the ranks as well. Brooks, Moses, Tedesco, Farah, Woods.

So, overall, I would say that our recruitment has not been that bad, but the management of our financial situation needs some work.

The same goes with other clubs. There an article from Johns saying the stars Newcastle lost from their junior system, Inglis, lattrell, josh Jackson to name a few. Think about all the juniors parramatta have let go.

The better clubs identify and retain the special players we obviously have to change and start retaining the good ones.

 

[yeti]

@willow - Papenhuyzen is a prodigious talent which was obvious to the discerning supporter throughout his career. I'm ;glad you are not involved in talent identification and recruitment for the club. As for Suli, there is no template for maturity or player development. While he realised his talent at Manly, I have no doubt this could have been achieved at WTs.

Also add Nathan Brown as another local junior not recognised by the Club.


From my memory I remember that papenhuyzen was small, injury prone and to me anyway, unimpressive.

Suli is still overrated. It was hard for the club to “ realise his talent “ when he wouldn’t show up for training! ! ! He was given numerous chances so his sacking was his own fault, not the clubs.

Brown, back in the day, had a good motor, but that was about it. He cost Parra big time tonight and I suspect for the next few weeks.

There is no doubt that the club has made some ordinary decisions in regard to recruitment over the years, but they have also made some great ones. Players like Benji, Scott Prince, Richards, Mr T, Brett Hodgson, Matterson and our English friend come to mind.

We had some pretty good juniors who came through the ranks as well. Brooks, Moses, Tedesco, Farah, Woods.

So, overall, I would say that our recruitment has not been that bad, but the management of our financial situation needs some work.


The same goes with other clubs. There an article from Johns saying the stars Newcastle lost from their junior system, Inglis, lattrell, josh Jackson to name a few. Think about all the juniors parramatta have let go.

The better clubs identify and retain the special players we obviously have to change and start retaining the good ones.

Agree with this. It is easy for clubs like the Roosters to look after their juniors - they don't have any. In hindsight, yes, you could say we have made some massive errors. But some clubs have made worse recruitment/retention decisions - Jonathon Thurston is one.

 

[NT_Tiger]

There is a lot of crying over spilt milk on this forum. I can understand people being upset when WT lets a player go, who then does well at another club but it seems some have to belabour the point several seasons after the event.

 

[BZN]

Don't go there @happy_tiger re your "Madge will be at Newcastle shortly" that's not funny, no hahaha's from me :relaxed:

 

[cochise]

Not funny at all, when I read it last night it left me with a sinking feeling in my stomach. It would only happen to us, but its the type of luck we have!

 

[Mccarry]

This whole “our retention is terrible” line is quite amusing.

What’s the average turnover rate in any modern organisation?

Let’s say ~20-30% in the <30 year old group. That’s 3-5 year average employment. For a football player that cultural driver suggests two to three clubs on average per player in their career

How many one club players are there in total now?

I’d be surprised if it’s more than 30%. That means more than 70% of players have moved clubs.

EVERY club has a big and painful list of loses. The cheating clubs have a smaller list but make no mistake they still lose lots of good talent.

It would be like a skin cancer debate where someone laments the fact the sun rises everyday.

Consistent development of non stars into stars is far more important. Surrounding the great players with a flow of Matterson examples is what will drive retention.

Retention is what happens when you get the inputs right. And even then we will still lose more than half.

 

[Spud_Murphy]

This whole “our retention is terrible” line is quite amusing.

What’s the average turnover rate in any modern organisation?

Let’s say ~20-30% in the <30 year old group. That’s 3-5 year average employment. For a football player that cultural driver suggests two to three clubs on average per player in their career

How many one club players are there in total now?

I’d be surprised if it’s more than 30%. That means more than 70% of players have moved clubs.

EVERY club has a big and painful list of loses. The cheating clubs have a smaller list but make no mistake they still lose lots of good talent.

It would be like a skin cancer debate where someone laments the fact the sun rises everyday.

Consistent development of non stars into stars is far more important. Surrounding the great players with a flow of Matterson examples is what will drive retention.

Retention is what happens when you get the inputs right. And even then we will still lose more than half.

I’m struggling to think of one player that the Roosters or the Storm have regretted losing over the years, who has gone onto better things at another club. They somehow seem to magically replace them with an even better player. We can’t do that, that’s the difference and why there is always such lament over our losses.

 

[avocadoontoast]

This whole “our retention is terrible” line is quite amusing.

What’s the average turnover rate in any modern organisation?

Let’s say ~20-30% in the <30 year old group. That’s 3-5 year average employment. For a football player that cultural driver suggests two to three clubs on average per player in their career

How many one club players are there in total now?

I’d be surprised if it’s more than 30%. That means more than 70% of players have moved clubs.

EVERY club has a big and painful list of loses. The cheating clubs have a smaller list but make no mistake they still lose lots of good talent.

It would be like a skin cancer debate where someone laments the fact the sun rises everyday.

Consistent development of non stars into stars is far more important. Surrounding the great players with a flow of Matterson examples is what will drive retention.

Retention is what happens when you get the inputs right. And even then we will still lose more than half.


I’m struggling to think of one player that the Roosters or the Storm have regretted losing over the years, who has gone onto better things at another club. They somehow seem to magically replace them with an even better player. We can’t do that, that’s the difference and why there is always such lament over our losses.

If they had their time over again i'm not sure they would have let Matterson go.

 

[TheDaBoss]

There is a lot of crying over spilt milk on this forum. I can understand people being upset when WT lets a player go, who then does well at another club but it seems some have to belabour the point several seasons after the event.

people seem to have gotten over Teddy leaving...... no one cares about woodsie... but as soon as someone mentions papenhauzen........ yea nah....

 

[jirskyr]

I’m struggling to think of one player that the Roosters or the Storm have regretted losing over the years, who has gone onto better things at another club. They somehow seem to magically replace them with an even better player. We can’t do that, that’s the difference and why there is always such lament over our losses.

I don't think you are thinking hard enough. Some players below who either (a) did well at new clubs, (b) took up a better offer at another club or (c) current club preferred to retain but could/did not

**Roosters**
RTS
Matterson
Mitchell Pearce
Connor Watson
Blake Ferguson
Michael Jennings
James Maloney (both clubs)
Ashley Harrison
Dave Shillington
Ben Hannant
Justin Hodges
Anthony Tupou
Ryan Cross
Matt Sing
Andrew Walker
Sisa Waqa

**Storm**
Inglis
Folau
Cronk
Dean Britt
Matt Lodge
Koroibete
Glasby
Jordan McLean
Tohu Harris
Blair
Widdop
Justin O'Neill
Aiden Tolman
Will Chambers the first time
Ben Cross
Michael Crocker
Jeremy Smith
Ryan Hoffman
Paul Whatuira

This list doesn't speak to "regret", because honestly it's hard for Tigers fans to say what the Roosters or Storm did or did not regret. For example Roosters clearly did not want to lose RTS and were blindsided by the departure, but ultimately they did sign Tedesco 2 years later. But Roosters 2015 weren't to know that Tedesco was gonna sign in 2017, that's just how it turned out.

Recruitment and retention always has to be considered in the climate of a salary cap. If clubs were able to retain all the players they wanted for as long as they wanted, then the poor clubs would go bankrupt within a handful of seasons and you'd definitely have a Premier League-style competition, with a handful of rich clubs holding the best players and switching them out with equally awesome players.

Clubs are under a constant pressure to guess which players to sign up and which can be let go. Obviously if Bulldogs had no limitations they would have kept Thurston on "just in case", even if he wasn't high priority at that time. The salary cap forced them to free up his space and it appears that nobody knew he would become a borderline immortal 10 years later. In fact basically no NRL club was interested in Thurston as an 18 year old; Bulldogs took him on for free.

And finally - if you are comparing Tigers to the top 1 or 2 successful clubs of the past 10 years, then yeah it's not a contest. There are 16 teams and if you are only ever comparing your side to the best side, then you are going to be disappointed. By all means, have ambition to be the best, but be aware that "average' is a concept you can never escape in a group.

 

[airbus]

Tigers biggest issue is a lack of off field leadership and good administration. You don't let Ivan Cleary sign players on inflated incomes well beyond the end of his own tenure. I know Cleary was contracted until the end of 2020 so they shouldn't have let him to sign players beyond the end of that term which still allowed for 3 year contracts instead of 4 for the likes of Packer, Mbye and Reynolds.

 

[Spud_Murphy]

This whole “our retention is terrible” line is quite amusing.

What’s the average turnover rate in any modern organisation?

Let’s say ~20-30% in the <30 year old group. That’s 3-5 year average employment. For a football player that cultural driver suggests two to three clubs on average per player in their career

How many one club players are there in total now?

I’d be surprised if it’s more than 30%. That means more than 70% of players have moved clubs.

EVERY club has a big and painful list of loses. The cheating clubs have a smaller list but make no mistake they still lose lots of good talent.

It would be like a skin cancer debate where someone laments the fact the sun rises everyday.

Consistent development of non stars into stars is far more important. Surrounding the great players with a flow of Matterson examples is what will drive retention.

Retention is what happens when you get the inputs right. And even then we will still lose more than half.


I’m struggling to think of one player that the Roosters or the Storm have regretted losing over the years, who has gone onto better things at another club. They somehow seem to magically replace them with an even better player. We can’t do that, that’s the difference and why there is always such lament over our losses.

If they had their time over again i'm not sure they would have let Matterson go.

Yeah I dunno, he was just a gap filler in their team, he’s the star in ours though. The difference is the overall rosters.

 

[Tigerboy]

@willow not at all did we, as a club make the right decision, you are way off base. Potentially in your weary eyes
Mate??? Maybe Teddy will come back one day?? You don’t let go of Australian schoolboys even if u do have one hell of a player in front of them - all successful teams from the past few years have clearly shown that... they don’t have many Heleta’s/Rochows/McQueen’s in their squad... if we didn’t make such a fuss of Suli in the first place , then, knowing his family quite well there was a great chance for him to turn out here @ Wests Tigers...

E.g one player who did NEED ato leave to discover his true potential as a player is C. Sironen... but u can’t possibly say letting Tatola, Felise, Suli, Paps, and several others pretty much walk at the time was good management with any dignity, let alone to “prioritise” key first grade signing’s - that’s just a cop out and shows exactly why said best juniors to come off of our production line’s always end up at another club - That doesn’t mean they shouldn’t have stayed here and rewarded we as fans’ faith. Way off base saying we made the right decisions at the time though - don’t bother with that crap

 

[Tigerboy]

@colinbh this is a much more factual and less opinionated explanation as I can confirm That Paps, while a lightweight was no where near 70kg’s dripping wet and he’s even bigger now after basically growing into his body... is that seriously an excuse to let him go???

Agree about our finances. Thanks Colin!

 

[WT2K]

Tigers biggest issue is a lack of off field leadership and good administration. You don't let Ivan Cleary sign players on inflated incomes well beyond the end of his own tenure. I know Cleary was contracted until the end of 2020 so they shouldn't have let him to sign players beyond the end of that term which still allowed for 3 year contracts instead of 4 for the likes of Packer, Mbye and Reynolds.

Agree. Maybe they've learnt something.. all the re-signings this year, their contracts finish with Madge contract in 2021.

 

[Masterton]

You don’t let go of Australian schoolboys even if u do have one hell of a player in front of them

I guess the club could have taken a family member hostage, threatened to kill them if he left. That was about the only way Paps was going to stay. But that doesn't fit the "we let them go" whingeathon.