The Papenhuyzen decision...

[pawsandclaws1]

For all WTs' supporters, do not read this thread unless you have liquid tranquiliser available. No I do not know a Dr who would be prepared to prescribe it.

 

[Moh]

Paps was let go before Tedesco was leaving wasn't he?

I don't think anyone would have picked Paps over Tedesco then.

Why did it have to be a choice?

Those who were paid to position the Club to achieve the best results should have ensured our fall back option was secured ie that Papenhuyzen was contracted to WTs.

I'd assume Paps didn't want to sit behind Tedesco. You have to remember at the time, Teddy was our future.

 

[jirskyr]

We have lets lots of players go who go on to better things

This was a massive blunder. I mean LM was SG Ball player of the year, Papenhuyzen HM player of the year and many junior rep teams. The top clubs rarely lose vgood young players.

LM ...sorry ..who at the Tigers is / was LM

Lattrell Mitchell fullback and SG Ball player of the year. Papenhuyzen fullback and HM player of the year.

Surely you are aware that "POTY" awards are not a particularly good argument regarding player retention. In a 10 minute search effort I found several seasons of the last 20 years, where the POTY was released by his FG side, or more often than not, didn't even make a dent in first grade.

2003
SG Ball Player of the Year - Adam Whitelaw, Canterbury Bulldogs
Jersey Flegg Player of the Year - Issac de Gois , Western Suburbs

2006
2006 Harold Matthews Player of the Year was presented to Bradley Murray (Canterbury Bulldogs)
2006 S G Ball Player of the Year was presented to Michael Jennings (Penrith Panthers)

2007
Matthew Wright - Harold Matthews
Lachlan Coote - SG Ball

2008
Vaipuna Tia Kilifi (Penrith, Harold Matthews)
Tim Auremi (Parramatta, SG Ball)

2011
TOM ROUSE - SG Ball

2012
Harold Matthews Player of the Year - Soni Hala (Penrith Panthers)
SG Ball Player of the Year - Mitchell Moses (Balmain)

2015
Fine Kula - Harold Matts
Tom Starling - SG Ball

 

[pawsandclaws1]

We have lets lots of players go who go on to better things

This was a massive blunder. I mean LM was SG Ball player of the year, Papenhuyzen HM player of the year and many junior rep teams. The top clubs rarely lose vgood young players.

LM ...sorry ..who at the Tigers is / was LM

Lattrell Mitchell fullback and SG Ball player of the year. Papenhuyzen fullback and HM player of the year.

Surely you are aware that "POTY" awards are not a particularly good argument regarding player retention. In a 10 minute search effort I found several seasons of the last 20 years, where the POTY was released by his FG side, or more often than not, didn't even make a dent in first grade.

2003
SG Ball Player of the Year - Adam Whitelaw, Canterbury Bulldogs
Jersey Flegg Player of the Year - Issac de Gois , Western Suburbs

2006
2006 Harold Matthews Player of the Year was presented to Bradley Murray (Canterbury Bulldogs)
2006 S G Ball Player of the Year was presented to Michael Jennings (Penrith Panthers)

2007
Matthew Wright - Harold Matthews
Lachlan Coote - SG Ball

2008
Vaipuna Tia Kilifi (Penrith, Harold Matthews)
Tim Auremi (Parramatta, SG Ball)

2011
TOM ROUSE - SG Ball

2012
Harold Matthews Player of the Year - Soni Hala (Penrith Panthers)
SG Ball Player of the Year - Mitchell Moses (Balmain)

2015
Fine Kula - Harold Matts
Tom Starling - SG Ball

Well Mitchell and Papenhuyzen are pretty average players. Try again.

 

[jirskyr]

Well Mitchell and Papenhuyzen are pretty average players. Try again.

That's two players mate. I just showed you, with no effort, 13 junior POTYs, of whom about 4 maybe 5 had decent but not stellar NRL FG careers. Tom Starling is still to be decided as he's young, and anyway he's at Raiders, not the Knights where he began.

You can cherry-pick any young kid from any rep side and try to make an argument for "why club X should have kept Player Y", but that's a stupid argument and ignores any of the real-life complexities about prioritising and retaining junior players.

 

[ElleryHanley]

Paps was let go before Tedesco was leaving wasn't he?

I don't think anyone would have picked Paps over Tedesco then.

Why did it have to be a choice?

Those who were paid to position the Club to achieve the best results should have ensured our fall back option was secured ie that Papenhuyzen was contracted to WTs.

I'd assume Paps didn't want to sit behind Tedesco. You have to remember at the time, Teddy was our future.

Everyone seems to have gotten away from the original post...Kelly Egan decided to not retain Paps as he was injury prone.

The whole point of the post was to dispel the Tedesco stuff. Chaamas has come out and said Paps was not wanted by Egan.

 

[jirskyr]

Why are we rehashing this topic? It's done to death. Paps took an equivalent offer from Storm to play under Slater and Bellamy, and to get out from behind Tedesco. He is quoted directly about this decision. Tigers matched the Storm offer and Paps decided to leave.

Whatever the exact and most important reasons that he left, it cannot be argued that Tigers had a million-dollar offer on the games' emerging #1 fullback. It also cannot be argued that Storm have and continue to have now the games' most influential (a) player and (b) coach.

Maybe Kelly Egan is/was a complete and utter incompetent moron. Who cares, what more can we do given he's already left the club? Sack him in retrospect? Maybe it would have helped Kelly out if Tigers had the all-time greatest coach going around, to sweeten deals.

 

[jirskyr]

Paps was let go before Tedesco was leaving wasn't he?

I don't think anyone would have picked Paps over Tedesco then.

Why did it have to be a choice?

Those who were paid to position the Club to achieve the best results should have ensured our fall back option was secured ie that Papenhuyzen was contracted to WTs.

I'd assume Paps didn't want to sit behind Tedesco. You have to remember at the time, Teddy was our future.

Everyone seems to have gotten away from the original post...Kelly Egan decided to not retain Paps as he was injury prone.

The whole point of the post was to dispel the Tedesco stuff. Chaamas has come out and said Paps was not wanted by Egan.

You are twisting the statement.

Firstly does Chammas actually direct-quote anyone? You did not link the article, I can't read to verify.

Secondly, Kelly Egan may well have believed Paps was too injury prone, but that is not the same as saying Tigers released him *because* he was too injury prone. That may have simply been Egan's sole opinion.

Papenhuyzen himself has been quoted very many times about why he left, I don't see the point of rehashing it to either bullet Jason Taylor or Kelly Egan or any other dude from the 2017 management.

 

[Cultured_Bogan]

Why are we rehashing this topic? It's done to death. Paps took an equivalent offer from Storm to play under Slater and Bellamy, and to get out from behind Tedesco. He is quoted directly about this decision. Tigers matched the Storm offer and Paps decided to leave.

Whatever the exact and most important reasons that he left, it cannot be argued that Tigers had a million-dollar offer on the games' emerging #1 fullback. It also cannot be argued that Storm have and continue to have now the games' most influential (a) player and (b) coach.

Maybe Kelly Egan is/was a complete and utter incompetent moron. Who cares, what more can we do given he's already left the club? Sack him in retrospect? Maybe it would have helped Kelly out if Tigers had the all-time greatest coach going around, to sweeten deals.

No, we must debate this until the end of time.

 

[mike]

Why are we rehashing this topic? It's done to death. Paps took an equivalent offer from Storm to play under Slater and Bellamy, and to get out from behind Tedesco. He is quoted directly about this decision. Tigers matched the Storm offer and Paps decided to leave.

Whatever the exact and most important reasons that he left, it cannot be argued that Tigers had a million-dollar offer on the games' emerging #1 fullback. It also cannot be argued that Storm have and continue to have now the games' most influential (a) player and (b) coach.

Maybe Kelly Egan is/was a complete and utter incompetent moron. Who cares, what more can we do given he's already left the club? Sack him in retrospect? Maybe it would have helped Kelly out if Tigers had the all-time greatest coach going around, to sweeten deals.

No, we must debate this until the end of time.

Or at least until we win the premiership again.

 

[walter]

Big fan of paps great player in saying that he’s form in the lower grades here was average

 

[jirskyr]

Why are we rehashing this topic? It's done to death. Paps took an equivalent offer from Storm to play under Slater and Bellamy, and to get out from behind Tedesco. He is quoted directly about this decision. Tigers matched the Storm offer and Paps decided to leave.

Whatever the exact and most important reasons that he left, it cannot be argued that Tigers had a million-dollar offer on the games' emerging #1 fullback. It also cannot be argued that Storm have and continue to have now the games' most influential (a) player and (b) coach.

Maybe Kelly Egan is/was a complete and utter incompetent moron. Who cares, what more can we do given he's already left the club? Sack him in retrospect? Maybe it would have helped Kelly out if Tigers had the all-time greatest coach going around, to sweeten deals.

No, we must debate this until the end of time.

Mate I'm not even convinced Paps could produce his current form at Tigers. He has the luxury of being in the Storm system at the moment, and he's been there since 2018, playing 1.5 years of QLD cup, almost being released by Storm in 2019.

What everyone really needs to remember is that Brodie Croft is the key to the emergence of Paps at Storm. Storm persisted with Croft for some time, but when he was out and Jahrome Hughes moved to halfback, the Storm clicked and Paps took his opportunity well. Croft obviously since been traded to Broncos and Hughes has gone from fullback to FT halfback.

Even without Paps, the 3rd-stringer option Nicho Hynes is still a handy footballer.

 

[Harvey]

I don't remember too many people bleating about losing him when he left, or when he did not play a game in his first few years at the storm.

No one was suggesting a big money contract be offered when the storm were shopping him around at the start of last year.

When he left he was as big a loss as Jake Mullaney

 

[Fade.To.Black]

Why are we rehashing this topic? It's done to death. Paps took an equivalent offer from Storm to play under Slater and Bellamy, and to get out from behind Tedesco. He is quoted directly about this decision. Tigers matched the Storm offer and Paps decided to leave.

Whatever the exact and most important reasons that he left, it cannot be argued that Tigers had a million-dollar offer on the games' emerging #1 fullback. It also cannot be argued that Storm have and continue to have now the games' most influential (a) player and (b) coach.

Maybe Kelly Egan is/was a complete and utter incompetent moron. Who cares, what more can we do given he's already left the club? Sack him in retrospect? Maybe it would have helped Kelly out if Tigers had the all-time greatest coach going around, to sweeten deals.

No, we must debate this until the end of time.

Or at least until we win the premiership again.

They're one and the same sadly.(The end of time and when we win our next premiership).

 

[Fade.To.Black]

I don't remember too many people bleating about losing him when he left, or when he did not play a game in his first few years at the storm.

No one was suggesting a big money contract be offered when the storm were shopping him around at the start of last year.

When he left he was as big a loss as Jake Mullaney

Exactly. Easy to say woulda, coulda, shoulda after the fact.
If he stayed with us we probably still wouldn't be aware of his prowess at fullback because he'd probably be stuck on the wing.

 

[ElleryHanley]

Paps was let go before Tedesco was leaving wasn't he?

I don't think anyone would have picked Paps over Tedesco then.

Why did it have to be a choice?

Those who were paid to position the Club to achieve the best results should have ensured our fall back option was secured ie that Papenhuyzen was contracted to WTs.

I'd assume Paps didn't want to sit behind Tedesco. You have to remember at the time, Teddy was our future.

Everyone seems to have gotten away from the original post...Kelly Egan decided to not retain Paps as he was injury prone.

The whole point of the post was to dispel the Tedesco stuff. Chaamas has come out and said Paps was not wanted by Egan.

You are twisting the statement.

Firstly does Chammas actually direct-quote anyone? You did not link the article, I can't read to verify.

Secondly, Kelly Egan may well have believed Paps was too injury prone, but that is not the same as saying Tigers released him *because* he was too injury prone. That may have simply been Egan's sole opinion.

Papenhuyzen himself has been quoted very many times about why he left, I don't see the point of rehashing it to either bullet Jason Taylor or Kelly Egan or any other dude from the 2017 management.

Chaamas gets feed unofficial press releases from the club, as you know.

Re recycling it...more so using it to give reasons why Madge should be kept on. Even I, a Madge fan, started to think maybe he is not the right bloke due to the terrible D. But, when you factor this stuff in, he is still dealing with years of poor decisions and deserves a 'cycle' of his own.

 

[Fade.To.Black]

I think if you go back and look at Egan's record it stands up pretty well

He was involved with the Cowboys junior recruitment from 2011 -2013 (2 years before their premiership ) , involved in coaching the Junior Kangaroos ......Manly as an assistant coach and then the Bulldogs before us

I don't care how good you are or are not ...but your not going to get every call right as far as junior recruitment /retention goes ..especially when you have a lot to choose from

Brisbane , Cowboys ,NZ , Newcastle ,Parra and Dogs have large pools of juniors to choose from and you could have 4-5 all in the same age group all as equally talented as each other

The case I use is Willie Carne ....known him for many years from being in the same class at IGS ....if you had told me he would have gone from the 2nd 15 at IGS to NRL player in 4 years I would have taken you to the nearest hospital to have your stomach pumped and stuck you in a drug dependency ward

We have lets lots of players go who go on to better things

This was a massive blunder. I mean LM was SG Ball player of the year, Papenhuyzen HM player of the year and many junior rep teams. The top clubs rarely lose vgood young players.

LM ...sorry ..who at the Tigers is / was LM

Lattrell Mitchell fullback and SG Ball player of the year. Papenhuyzen fullback and HM player of the year.

Roosters let him go ....


But look at Fifita ...we chose Groat and Woods over him


Roosters had 1st shot at Fifita as well ....

I'm off to work ...but I'll do a list tonight of the screw ups recruitment / retention calls

I don't think it'll be as bad as some make out TBH.
In 20 years we've probably only had a handful of really bad decisions. Tedesco, Fifita, Papenhyzen and JAC. Tedesco didn't want to be here so there is nothing we could've done about that. A few others are reasonable footballers but very hit and miss.....Moses, Matterson, Woods, Koro, Brown, Tatola, Bronson Harrison, Te'o, both Sirro's. Matterson is in the same dog catagory as Moses and Ted as far as not wanting to play at WT goes.Koro wasn't any better at Storm than what he was here, still couldn't defend to save his life.

 

[Geo]

Well Mitchell and Papenhuyzen are pretty average players. Try again.

That's two players mate. I just showed you, with no effort, 13 junior POTYs, of whom about 4 maybe 5 had decent but not stellar NRL FG careers. Tom Starling is still to be decided as he's young, and anyway he's at Raiders, not the Knights where he began.

You can cherry-pick any young kid from any rep side and try to make an argument for "why club X should have kept Player Y", but that's a stupid argument and ignores any of the real-life complexities about prioritising and retaining junior players.

Did you know Robert Jennings made an NYC team of the year whilst at the Pamfers..

They let him slipaway

 

[Elderslie_Tiger]

Why are we rehashing this topic? It's done to death. Paps took an equivalent offer from Storm to play under Slater and Bellamy, and to get out from behind Tedesco. He is quoted directly about this decision. Tigers matched the Storm offer and Paps decided to leave.

Whatever the exact and most important reasons that he left, it cannot be argued that Tigers had a million-dollar offer on the games' emerging #1 fullback. It also cannot be argued that Storm have and continue to have now the games' most influential (a) player and (b) coach.

Maybe Kelly Egan is/was a complete and utter incompetent moron. Who cares, what more can we do given he's already left the club? Sack him in retrospect? Maybe it would have helped Kelly out if Tigers had the all-time greatest coach going around, to sweeten deals.

No, we must debate this until the end of time.

Or at least until we win the premiership again.

Has anyone on this Forum ever made a bad decision??

 

[Tiger5150]

Paps was let go before Tedesco was leaving wasn't he?

I don't think anyone would have picked Paps over Tedesco then.

Why did it have to be a choice?

Those who were paid to position the Club to achieve the best results should have ensured our fall back option was secured ie that Papenhuyzen was contracted to WTs.

I'd assume Paps didn't want to sit behind Tedesco. You have to remember at the time, Teddy was our future.

Everyone seems to have gotten away from the original post...Kelly Egan decided to not retain Paps as he was injury prone.

The whole point of the post was to dispel the Tedesco stuff. Chaamas has come out and said Paps was not wanted by Egan.

Everyone has "gotten away from the original post" because its rubbish and has been shown over and over again through out this thread that its rubbish.

"Kelly Egan decided to get rid of Paps because he was injury prone".....because a journalist said so? Oh ok. Must be gospel. You went on to say that Egan "preferred" Dylan Smith to Paps.

Out of Paps own mouth here in the thread, he always dreamt to play with Melbourne and when Bellamy knocked on his door it was a dream come true and he couldnt go quick enough....He had Tedesco in front of him, had a rubbish coach ahead of him in a poorly performing squad that was tearing itself apart......but a journalist says some mindless rubbish that has no resemblance to facts but aligns with your prior biases and thats close enough?