Tigers and Storm Player Loan Swap

[diedpretty]

Is there a time restriction on the swap?
Couldn't we just wait another month - or however long it takes - to pay up the $16K for Momirovski? Give him time to heal with his injury also.

Or if I'm incorrect with my thinking. Can someone clarify the issue please?

Spot on that’s what’s happening. Grant gets released first we pay another 3 weeks of Momirovskis contract and he then fits under the salary cap of the Storm. It’s a risk for the Storm as there has to be trust WT will make it happen.

That does get around what i just posted. Be interesting if it pans out that way.

 

[Tim Sheens]

Would the bunnies have been way over the cap if WT were not paying and including the vast majority of Farah's contract payment in their cap? Of course they would have and I cannot see any difference.

the bunnies weren;t over because both sides came to an agrreement on who would pay what that kept both sides under their prospective caps. This situation could have been the same except the idiots in Melbourne can't add up and would be over the cap under the proposed deal. I'm amazed that a team that could carry 2 sets of books and rort the NRL the way they did can't find a way to reduce their cap by 16k. And we think our club are amateurs???

No, I don't think that should matter at all, as it should be open to negotiations between any two individual clubs and if it did not initially meet requirements through an error, it should be open to renegotiation if all parties agree.

Clubs all over the NRL are currently negotiating with each other and a collective of players, whose managers are each acting for the individuals. The sharks, dragons, WT and a super league club were just involved in a four way deal that had us land big Lucy, so why on earth can't two competing clubs and their consenting players come to an arrangement?

 

[diedpretty]

Typical head in the and approach by the NRL. That said it might still work out ok for us.

I disagree entirely. For once the NRL is heads up looking at the issue squarely.
Heads in the sand would mean they turn a blind eye to a 'darling' team and let them get by with a breach. They haven't done that.
Unfortunately we miss out as a result but it is anything but head in the sand.


When this all started not one person thought that Momirovskis contract should be paid for by the Storm.

Head in the sand is to be a stickler for the rules rather than look at the situation. We are lending this player to the Storm, why should they pay him what we determine he is worth. Its only a loan.

Both clubs have determined the players to be of equal value.

Lots of ways to look at and rule on this but the NRL chose one, the only one that puts a stop to this revolutionary and game changing idea.

I think you're wrong. Momo's market value is what we are paying him. At the end of this year it might be different but for now its what his current contract value is. Same with Grant - his market value is his current contract amount. You can't just adjust the figures to fit a situation you want to happen.


Yes but thats what we are paying him. We are willing to give him up for a player of lesser value. Thats our choice and should come off our cap. He is our player not a Storm player.

Thats where we differ - as far as i'm concerend for the period he is at the storm he is a storm player and they have to pay what his current contract is.

 

[jirskyr]

So Melbourne get the math slightly wrong and the NRL, utterly bereft of the ability to innovate or be flexible, can't find any way around the Storm's $15,000 cap error. Not as if anyone is trying to cheat. Seems we are still a chance of getting young Grant with Momo staying put.

The NRL need to draw a line in the ground.... Next time another team will be over by more... If you give an inch they'll take a yard

:::

Spoiler Text

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Agreed. As if the Storm, of all sides, need to be given cap flexibility. That burned that bridge a decade ago.

 

[balmain boy]

It should be like every other sport in the world with loans. Both clubs negotiate how much each pays. In some cases the receiving club pays everything. Other times the parent club values the experience the youngster gets as more valuable than 100k for example.

 

[Tim Sheens]

Is there a time restriction on the swap?
Couldn't we just wait another month - or however long it takes - to pay up the $16K for Momirovski? Give him time to heal with his injury also.

Or if I'm incorrect with my thinking. Can someone clarify the issue please?

Spot on that’s what’s happening. Grant gets released first we pay another 3 weeks of Momirovskis contract and he then fits under the salary cap of the Storm. It’s a risk for the Storm as there has to be trust WT will make it happen.

That does get around what i just posted. Be interesting if it pans out that way.

But it shouldn't have to be done this way, just to circumvent the NRL insisting on creating a square peg and a round hole for no reason.

 

[diedpretty]

The funny thing about all this is that has shown what a joke the salary cap and contract system in the NRL is .The whole cap system is being shown up for the complete farce it is. As people have pointed out how can teams carry players salaries for years and have to wear that on their cap but you can't do a swap and carry that on your cap. Players and clubs are cutting contracts early, others are being signed on huge amounts and when they don't deliver the clubs want to ship them off and are prepared to carry a certain amount on the cap even though the player is no longer at the club. Player managers are manipulating players and holding clubs to ransom. Clubs are definitely involved in anti tampering in contracts but they all deny it but are happy to point the finger at others.The whole system is a farce. The current system has been a can of worms waiting to be opened and the NRL don't have a clue how to fix it.

 

[twentyforty]

Wonder how long it would take Momo to make another 16k off the Tigers.

With a contract of $360k we can represent the contract in 2 weeks.

 

[Tim Sheens]

It should be like every other sport in the world with loans. Both clubs negotiate how much each pays. In some cases the receiving club pays everything. Other times the parent club values the experience the youngster gets as more valuable than 100k for example.

Sure should be, but common sense is severely lacking here at the NRL.

The thing that confuses me, is when I read some of the samepeople arguing against such, were arguing that we should have come to a private arrangement with the slimeys regarding two players, in Stefano and Matterson swapping for this season.

 

[gallagher]

Who would have thought piss farting about for 5 odd years with stop gap hookers would leave us in bad spot in that positon? And our latest solution?
Lets get another stop gap...

 

[balmain boy]

Wonder how long it would take Momo to make another 16k off the Tigers.


With a contract of $360k we can represent the contract in 2 weeks.

As if Momo is on 360k.
Max 250k,at a stretch

 

[Tim Sheens]

Typical head in the and approach by the NRL. That said it might still work out ok for us.

I disagree entirely. For once the NRL is heads up looking at the issue squarely.
Heads in the sand would mean they turn a blind eye to a 'darling' team and let them get by with a breach. They haven't done that.
Unfortunately we miss out as a result but it is anything but head in the sand.


When this all started not one person thought that Momirovskis contract should be paid for by the Storm.

Head in the sand is to be a stickler for the rules rather than look at the situation. We are lending this player to the Storm, why should they pay him what we determine he is worth. Its only a loan.

Both clubs have determined the players to be of equal value.

Lots of ways to look at and rule on this but the NRL chose one, the only one that puts a stop to this revolutionary and game changing idea.

I think you're wrong. Momo's market value is what we are paying him. At the end of this year it might be different but for now its what his current contract value is. Same with Grant - his market value is his current contract amount. You can't just adjust the figures to fit a situation you want to happen.


Yes but thats what we are paying him. We are willing to give him up for a player of lesser value. Thats our choice and should come off our cap. He is our player not a Storm player.

Thats where we differ - as far as i'm concerend for the period he is at the storm he is a storm player and they have to pay what his current contract is.

Can certainly agree on this point and every single NRL contract is already always considered as exactly that until cessation between the two parties is agreed. Most people seem to be getting their knickers in a knot because it is directly between two clubs, but it must be remembered that there are four individual negotiations making up this collective for proposed change, just as there would be if players were going to different clubs.

 

[Hangonaminute]

The Warriors have 5 hookers I'm sure we could make one of them an offer for a NRL spot on the cheap.
Pitty 4 of them are injured though. 😀

 

[Russell]

I like Liddle but there do seem to be real issues regarding his durability. Hope he comes good and realises his potential but if he cops another serious injury, hard to see him having a WT future beyond 2020

I don't get how people question his durability. I mean, ok, his shoulders may be an issue, but we can hardly suggest that the knee injury could have been helped. That was sheer bad luck. The same would have happened to anyone at that moment. Let's see how things go when he returns. There's every chance he can recover well and kill it. If not, decisions will be made. He'd know that, there's plenty of motivation to be 100% right before returning.

He's not the only one who suffered an injury on the Brookvale surface either...

Some players attract criticism because of their build or durability especially at WTs. Papenhuyzen apparently was too slight and injury prone at WTn yet he is one tough little player. Moses also received criticism so we traded him for a injury prone player from another club in the twilight of his career. Liddle is a fine player and hopefully has more luck with injury when he returns.

Some people tend to forget we had up and coming super STAR who took three years to get his body right then did he go off with a bang one B Marshall
Liddle needs a little more time then watch him go kids got ability determination all he needs now is some good luck.

He's a good player with plenty of ability, i guess you could compare him to Benji in an injury capacity but Benji was a rare talent which is why we stuck by him. He also won a comp and was winning games almost single handedly in his first real full season ,i will never forget the game we thrashed the sharks on thier own patch. If liddle doesnt step up to the plate next season as this one is basically a write off id let him go especially if they rate Simpkin higher. Maybe he needs a change of scenery some players thrive when they move on look at Tapau he was basically a reserve came to us and went on big time happens often Liddle could be in that boat.

Liddle has played 37-38 NRL games (depending on your source), I have seen enough of him in a lot of those games, to rate him highly as a 23 y.o. DH (none of them are hookers anymore)

We have invested a few contracts in him so far and I think they have been justified. People talk about this seasons possibilities - Walters, Mbye, Reynolds, all pale into insignificance compared to Liddle. Lots of people are talking up Grant as the next Cam Smith, he may well be but I didn't see anything out of the ordinary in the 9's - yes, yes, it was 9's but he should have shone more in this form, than he ever will in the NRL, to my mind he didn't.

That brings us to Simpkins - coming Messiah etc. etc. - I will reserve judgement on this guy and whether he is better than Liddle after he plays 37-38 NRL games. Certainly have not formed any opinion what so ever after he has played "0" - that is right folks, a big fat ZERO.

IMHO, We need to make do with the non DH's that we have until Jake comes back, don't rush him, because we are desperate. Give him a chance to fully recover - they did this with Benji and were rewarded.

I see this as a similar scenario.

 

[Tiger5150]

I like Liddle but there do seem to be real issues regarding his durability. Hope he comes good and realises his potential but if he cops another serious injury, hard to see him having a WT future beyond 2020

I don't get how people question his durability. I mean, ok, his shoulders may be an issue, but we can hardly suggest that the knee injury could have been helped. That was sheer bad luck. The same would have happened to anyone at that moment. Let's see how things go when he returns. There's every chance he can recover well and kill it. If not, decisions will be made. He'd know that, there's plenty of motivation to be 100% right before returning.

He's not the only one who suffered an injury on the Brookvale surface either...

Some players attract criticism because of their build or durability especially at WTs. Papenhuyzen apparently was too slight and injury prone at WTn yet he is one tough little player. Moses also received criticism so we traded him for a injury prone player from another club in the twilight of his career. Liddle is a fine player and hopefully has more luck with injury when he returns.

Some people tend to forget we had up and coming super STAR who took three years to get his body right then did he go off with a bang one B Marshall
Liddle needs a little more time then watch him go kids got ability determination all he needs now is some good luck.

He's a good player with plenty of ability, i guess you could compare him to Benji in an injury capacity but Benji was a rare talent which is why we stuck by him. He also won a comp and was winning games almost single handedly in his first real full season ,i will never forget the game we thrashed the sharks on thier own patch. If liddle doesnt step up to the plate next season as this one is basically a write off id let him go especially if they rate Simpkin higher. Maybe he needs a change of scenery some players thrive when they move on look at Tapau he was basically a reserve came to us and went on big time happens often Liddle could be in that boat.

Liddle has played 37-38 NRL games (depending on your source), I have seen enough of him in a lot of those games, to rate him highly as a 23 y.o. DH (none of them are hookers anymore)

We have invested a few contracts in him so far and I think they have been justified. People talk about this seasons possibilities - Walters, Mbye, Reynolds, all pale into insignificance compared to Liddle. Lots of people are talking up Grant as the next Cam Smith, he may well be but I didn't see anything out of the ordinary in the 9's - yes, yes, it was 9's but he should have shone more in this form, than he ever will in the NRL, to my mind he didn't.

That brings us to Simpkins - coming Messiah etc. etc. - I will reserve judgement on this guy and whether he is better than Liddle after he plays 37-38 NRL games. Certainly have not formed any opinion what so ever after he has played "0" - that is right folks, a big fat ZERO.

IMHO, We need to make do with the non DH's that we have until Jake comes back, don't rush him, because we are desperate. Give him a chance to fully recover - they did this with Benji and were rewarded.

I see this as a similar scenario.

With respect Russell, I dont see the point of this post? Liddle is injured and the clus HAS to look to other options. None of them are tested in NRL including Walters, Simpkins or Grant and we will have to wait and see but we have no other options.

On the other hand Liddle has shown a lot of promise and as you say has been rewarded with repeated contracts (and medical care & rehab). No one knows how he will come back from a horrible knee injury (it was a lot worse than Teddy's). He may lose pace which IMO was his only real asset. We will have to wait and see.

We will have to wait and see no matter what.

 

[Russell]

Well the point is, Grant is not coming apparently.

Walters and Simpkins are untried at NRL level.

Reynolds and Mbye are not DH's.

Instead of singling only Liddle out, maybe @The_Doc in his post should have said "If any or all of these guys don't step up to the plate next season, let the ones who fail go" - maybe they might be better in another environment too.

It is not only Liddle that has to step up, every player in the squad does.

 

[cochise]

Well the point is, Grant is not coming apparently.

Walters and Simpkins are untried at NRL level.

Reynolds and Mbye are not DH's.

Instead of singling only Liddle out, maybe @The_Doc in his post should have said "If any or all of these guys don't step up to the plate next season, let the ones who fail go" - maybe they might be better in another environment too.

It is not only Liddle that has to step up, every player in the squad does.

We need a hooker in a couple of weeks, not halfway through the season!

 

[Russell]

Well the point is, Grant is not coming apparently.

Walters and Simpkins are untried at NRL level.

Reynolds and Mbye are not DH's.

Instead of singling only Liddle out, maybe @The_Doc in his post should have said "If any or all of these guys don't step up to the plate next season, let the ones who fail go" - maybe they might be better in another environment too.

It is not only Liddle that has to step up, every player in the squad does.

We need a hooker in a couple of weeks, not halfway through the season!

Well the point is, Grant is not coming apparently.

Walters and Simpkins are untried at NRL level.

Reynolds and Mbye are not DH's.

Instead of singling only Liddle out, maybe @The_Doc in his post should have said "If any or all of these guys don't step up to the plate next season, let the ones who fail go" - maybe they might be better in another environment too.

It is not only Liddle that has to step up, every player in the squad does.

We need a hooker in a couple of weeks, not halfway through the season!

Well, I don't know where you are going to get one apart from Kings Cross.

 

[cochise]

Well the point is, Grant is not coming apparently.

Walters and Simpkins are untried at NRL level.

Reynolds and Mbye are not DH's.

Instead of singling only Liddle out, maybe @The_Doc in his post should have said "If any or all of these guys don't step up to the plate next season, let the ones who fail go" - maybe they might be better in another environment too.

It is not only Liddle that has to step up, every player in the squad does.

We need a hooker in a couple of weeks, not halfway through the season!

Well the point is, Grant is not coming apparently.

Walters and Simpkins are untried at NRL level.

Reynolds and Mbye are not DH's.

Instead of singling only Liddle out, maybe @The_Doc in his post should have said "If any or all of these guys don't step up to the plate next season, let the ones who fail go" - maybe they might be better in another environment too.

It is not only Liddle that has to step up, every player in the squad does.

We need a hooker in a couple of weeks, not halfway through the season!

Well, I don't know where you are going to get one apart from Kings Cross.

That's why it should have been a priority as soon as Liddle was injured!

 

[Russell]

Well the point is, Grant is not coming apparently.

Walters and Simpkins are untried at NRL level.

Reynolds and Mbye are not DH's.

Instead of singling only Liddle out, maybe @The_Doc in his post should have said "If any or all of these guys don't step up to the plate next season, let the ones who fail go" - maybe they might be better in another environment too.

It is not only Liddle that has to step up, every player in the squad does.

We need a hooker in a couple of weeks, not halfway through the season!

Well the point is, Grant is not coming apparently.

Walters and Simpkins are untried at NRL level.

Reynolds and Mbye are not DH's.

Instead of singling only Liddle out, maybe @The_Doc in his post should have said "If any or all of these guys don't step up to the plate next season, let the ones who fail go" - maybe they might be better in another environment too.

It is not only Liddle that has to step up, every player in the squad does.

We need a hooker in a couple of weeks, not halfway through the season!

Well, I don't know where you are going to get one apart from Kings Cross.

That's why it should have been a priority as soon as Liddle was injured!

Well the point is, Grant is not coming apparently.

Walters and Simpkins are untried at NRL level.

Reynolds and Mbye are not DH's.

Instead of singling only Liddle out, maybe @The_Doc in his post should have said "If any or all of these guys don't step up to the plate next season, let the ones who fail go" - maybe they might be better in another environment too.

It is not only Liddle that has to step up, every player in the squad does.

We need a hooker in a couple of weeks, not halfway through the season!

Well the point is, Grant is not coming apparently.

Walters and Simpkins are untried at NRL level.

Reynolds and Mbye are not DH's.

Instead of singling only Liddle out, maybe @The_Doc in his post should have said "If any or all of these guys don't step up to the plate next season, let the ones who fail go" - maybe they might be better in another environment too.

It is not only Liddle that has to step up, every player in the squad does.

We need a hooker in a couple of weeks, not halfway through the season!

Well, I don't know where you are going to get one apart from Kings Cross.

That's why it should have been a priority as soon as Liddle was injured!

Well it wasn't, you can't blame Liddle for that.

He is the best DH that has been talked about playing for us, unfortunately he is injured, we have to make do until he can play.

I'm happy to wait. Looks like Madge is as well