Wests Tigers appoint two new Assistant Coaches

[Aceshigh]

Madge Will honour his contract for sure , we have to invest in the bloke for the next two years after that i am sure Ben Gardiner will take over head coach role from 24 and years to come

 

[cochise]

Very happy we didn’t appoint Flanagan. He probably is better than Gardiner and Cayless in experience wise, plus his credentials show that. Looking forward to seeing what next season holds for both lads.

You are very happy we didn’t appoint him because he is better than these two?

I'm very happy we didn't appoint him because he is a drug cheat.

Maybe so but he is what we needed.

I don't believe in risking the health of our players.

You have zero evidence that would be the case

Happened before

Leopards, spots and all that?

What has he done to show that he has changed? Has he accepted responsibility? Admitted fault?

I don’t care

Neither do I because we made the right decision to keep him away from our players.

Remains to be seen.
For now colour me sceptical.

Doesn't remain to be seen because regardless of what happens going forward we made the right decision.

You have no way of qualifying, nor quantifying that presently.

Yes I do, we didn't employ someone who was a risk to our players health, that is the right decision in my opinion regardless of our results moving forward.

Exactly. It is your opinion only.
This is why I said “it remains to be seen”. That is a fact and it trumps your opinion.

There is no fact that can Trump, who is a convicted Rapist and Felon maintaining a safe environment for your players.

That is not the point we are discussing.

It is 100% the point, Flanagan is a risk to the health of players. I am very pleased he wasn't employed.

It’s not the point.
You proudly boast that irrespective of how these new coaches go, we’ve made the correct decision. I said that remains to be seen.
Going off on tangents about possibilities is fantasy only. For all you and I know, Flanno may have been the missing piece to a tilt at the premiership.
See, I can do it as well.

I don't care if he is the missing piece to a premiership, it is still the right choice, that is the point. It doesn't remain to be seen because I don't care what difference he could have made.

Ok so what you are saying is it’s only your opinion on this matter that counts?
IMO talking in absolutes about future occurrences is the height of arrogance and ignorance.

IMO it’s not win at all costs.

Win at all costs? Do you really think he would have doped our players?

Dunno. He might have turned a new leaf.Do you let a known pedophile talk to your kid? There’s no proof they’ll do anything in the future.

That’s not a good analogy.

Why? We are playing real life here. It’s definitely uncomfortable. But there are real ramifications from decisions made by the club. Where you draw the line is opinion. Apologies if I stepped over the mark.

Because what Flanno did was he made a poor series of decisions to attain a goal. Having suffered public consequences for it I would be surprised if he reoffended.
A pedo is driven by sexual impulse where recidivism is extremely high.
You are comparing ice cream with dog turds.

Even then, CMON.
Flanno had a team with Nothing. He talked of buying used Gym equipment then renting a truck to drive it down to the stadium.
When someone like Stephen Dank turns up saying "I am a doctor I will give legal supplements to your players" ofcourse he is saying yes, because the Sharks then had Nothing. You would not have known and neither would I. A coach would have said "hey doc, is this prohibited or allowed?" doc says allowed.

Now, sure Wayne Bennett may have asked questions. But were talking a first year coach.

Lets rollcall for a second of our past coaches. Who would have stopped Dank?
Terry Lamb - Nope,
Tim Sheens - maybe, he has the experience and knowledge. though is probably not detail orientated enough.
Mick Potter - No, he was still too new and would have rolled with it.
Jason Taylor - Yes, but only because he and Dank got into a verbal argument about coaching styles and Taylor punches him out. Stopping for actual medicine reasons, NO.
Ivan Cleary - No, far too easy going. His signings were too light on the details and the reason why were in trouble.
Michael McGuire - Maybe.

Flanagan got a very hard coaching trap. He built a wooden spoon team from scratch at a club which then had Nothing. We would not have caught Dank if he came here and Flanagan has learned from his lesson.

Rate Coaches on coaching stuff, yes this is a part of their job but not their main focus. Flanagan as a coach, got the main focus.

Dank is not a doctor, he was not even qualified to give injections. Roy Masters reported at the time that Flanagan saw what was happening and his response was he didn't want to know.

The 1st priority of a coach should be that his program does not cause harm to the players in his care, Flanagan failed at this.

 

[jirskyr]

Gardiner did a good job with Magpies don't know much about Cayless coaching record but good luck to him

His resume states he never won a grand final as a player.

Nor did Wayne Pearce but he's an ARLC Commissioner.

 

[TigerWest]

I think all we can hope for is, the new assistants go well for us? They seem to have some cred.

 

[Russell]

Very happy we didn’t appoint Flanagan. He probably is better than Gardiner and Cayless in experience wise, plus his credentials show that. Looking forward to seeing what next season holds for both lads.

You are very happy we didn’t appoint him because he is better than these two?

I'm very happy we didn't appoint him because he is a drug cheat.

Maybe so but he is what we needed.

I don't believe in risking the health of our players.

You have zero evidence that would be the case

Happened before

Leopards, spots and all that?

What has he done to show that he has changed? Has he accepted responsibility? Admitted fault?

I don’t care

Neither do I because we made the right decision to keep him away from our players.

Remains to be seen.
For now colour me sceptical.

Doesn't remain to be seen because regardless of what happens going forward we made the right decision.

You have no way of qualifying, nor quantifying that presently.

Yes I do, we didn't employ someone who was a risk to our players health, that is the right decision in my opinion regardless of our results moving forward.

Exactly. It is your opinion only.
This is why I said “it remains to be seen”. That is a fact and it trumps your opinion.

There is no fact that can Trump, who is a convicted Rapist and Felon maintaining a safe environment for your players.

That is not the point we are discussing.

It is 100% the point, Flanagan is a risk to the health of players. I am very pleased he wasn't employed.

It’s not the point.
You proudly boast that irrespective of how these new coaches go, we’ve made the correct decision. I said that remains to be seen.
Going off on tangents about possibilities is fantasy only. For all you and I know, Flanno may have been the missing piece to a tilt at the premiership.
See, I can do it as well.

I don't care if he is the missing piece to a premiership, it is still the right choice, that is the point. It doesn't remain to be seen because I don't care what difference he could have made.

Ok so what you are saying is it’s only your opinion on this matter that counts?
IMO talking in absolutes about future occurrences is the height of arrogance and ignorance.

IMO it’s not win at all costs.

Win at all costs? Do you really think he would have doped our players?

Dunno. He might have turned a new leaf.Do you let a known pedophile talk to your kid? There’s no proof they’ll do anything in the future.

That’s not a good analogy.

Why? We are playing real life here. It’s definitely uncomfortable. But there are real ramifications from decisions made by the club. Where you draw the line is opinion. Apologies if I stepped over the mark.

Because what Flanno did was he made a poor series of decisions to attain a goal. Having suffered public consequences for it I would be surprised if he reoffended.
A pedo is driven by sexual impulse where recidivism is extremely high.
You are comparing ice cream with dog turds.

Even then, CMON.
Flanno had a team with Nothing. He talked of buying used Gym equipment then renting a truck to drive it down to the stadium.
When someone like Stephen Dank turns up saying "I am a doctor I will give legal supplements to your players" ofcourse he is saying yes, because the Sharks then had Nothing. You would not have known and neither would I. A coach would have said "hey doc, is this prohibited or allowed?" doc says allowed.

Now, sure Wayne Bennett may have asked questions. But were talking a first year coach.

Lets rollcall for a second of our past coaches. Who would have stopped Dank?
Terry Lamb - Nope,
Tim Sheens - maybe, he has the experience and knowledge. though is probably not detail orientated enough.
Mick Potter - No, he was still too new and would have rolled with it.
Jason Taylor - Yes, but only because he and Dank got into a verbal argument about coaching styles and Taylor punches him out. Stopping for actual medicine reasons, NO.
Ivan Cleary - No, far too easy going. His signings were too light on the details and the reason why were in trouble.
Michael McGuire - Maybe.

Flanagan got a very hard coaching trap. He built a wooden spoon team from scratch at a club which then had Nothing. We would not have caught Dank if he came here and Flanagan has learned from his lesson.

Rate Coaches on coaching stuff, yes this is a part of their job but not their main focus. Flanagan as a coach, got the main focus.

Spin it all you like - the guy is an absolute scumbag and cheat! Should be rubbed out of the game.

 

[Tiger_Fanatic3]

Gardiner coached Wests Magpies this season and were consistently a top 3 team all year, and he’s been around Maguire a lot the past decade with Kiwis and Rabbitohs.

 

[barra]

Some comments asking what people have seen in Gardiner?
What I liked about Gardiner's team this year is that they really put in with their individual tasks but also worked well as a team. And the games where they didn't go that well in the first half were always turned around with good tactics and efforts.
And it was obvious he had great rapport with the players when he was communicating with them. He was very personal with his one-on-one discussions and the players were always very attentive and communicative with him in return.
Just those points alone tick plenty of boxes for me.
Man-managing is extremely important and Gardiner seems to have a big upside in this area, on top of being able to coach footy.
From what I've seen he could go a long way I reckon.

 

[Harvey]

Not happy that both have links with Madge. Could argue that we have replaced on set of stooges with another.

I will give a pass mark to Gardiner's appointment. The NSW cup side looked good this year and was largely made up of young guys.

Cayless I am not so sure on. The roosters were not keen on keeping him despite losing an assistant & I am sure I read he had previously been moved on from Parra & the Warriors, who don't exactly have a history of success.

I would have preferred someone other than Cayless (& not Flanagan) but time will tell.

 

[happy_tiger]

Some comments asking what people have seen in Gardiner?
What I liked about Gardiner's team this year is that they really put in with their individual tasks but also worked well as a team. And the games where they didn't go that well in the first half were always turned around with good tactics and efforts.
And it was obvious he had great rapport with the players when he was communicating with them. He was very personal with his one-on-one discussions and the players were always very attentive and communicative with him in return.
Just those points alone tick plenty of boxes for me.
Man-managing is extremely important and Gardiner seems to have a big upside in this area, on top of being able to coach footy.
From what I've seen he could go a long way I reckon.

Big boots to fill Barra ......my only hope that I was clinging to like a life preserver was that we would kill it in KOE in 2022 ...... what do we now do ??

 

[TheDaBoss]

Not happy that both have links with Madge. Could argue that we have replaced on set of stooges with another.

I will give a pass mark to Gardiner's appointment. The NSW cup side looked good this year and was largely made up of young guys.

Cayless I am not so sure on. The roosters were not keen on keeping him despite losing an assistant & I am sure I read he had previously been moved on from Parra & the Warriors, who don't exactly have a history of success.

I would have preferred someone other than Cayless (& not Flanagan) but time will tell.

New cleanout 2024

 

[barra]

Some comments asking what people have seen in Gardiner?
What I liked about Gardiner's team this year is that they really put in with their individual tasks but also worked well as a team. And the games where they didn't go that well in the first half were always turned around with good tactics and efforts.
And it was obvious he had great rapport with the players when he was communicating with them. He was very personal with his one-on-one discussions and the players were always very attentive and communicative with him in return.
Just those points alone tick plenty of boxes for me.
Man-managing is extremely important and Gardiner seems to have a big upside in this area, on top of being able to coach footy.
From what I've seen he could go a long way I reckon.

Big boots to fill Barra ......my only hope that I was clinging to like a life preserver was that we would kill it in KOE in 2022 ...... what do we now do ??

I know mate, I was looking forward to following our KOE side next year too!
But I reckon Gardiner might just make a fist out of this...

 

[happy_tiger]

Not happy that both have links with Madge. Could argue that we have replaced on set of stooges with another.

I will give a pass mark to Gardiner's appointment. The NSW cup side looked good this year and was largely made up of young guys.

Cayless I am not so sure on. The roosters were not keen on keeping him despite losing an assistant & I am sure I read he had previously been moved on from Parra & the Warriors, who don't exactly have a history of success.

I would have preferred someone other than Cayless (& not Flanagan) but time will tell.

Technically an assistant role is a step up on a Reggies coaching role .......

But yeah ...when the Roosters let someone go ......especially when they are losing Fitzie as well ....

 

[twentyforty]

In October 2018, Nathan Cayless resigned as head coach of Wentworthville. The Parramatta Eels also announced that they would be ending their partnership with Wentworthville after the conclusion of the 2019 season. Parramatta CEO Bernie Gurr spoke to the media saying "Out of the review we found if we want to be a successful development club we need to have the Parramatta Eels in the ISP. Then you've got a clear one-club mentality".

 

[Aceshigh]

The Roosters are not perfect , just because they let someone fo don’t mean they are no good

 

[Snake]

Not happy that both have links with Madge. Could argue that we have replaced on set of stooges with another.

I will give a pass mark to Gardiner's appointment. The NSW cup side looked good this year and was largely made up of young guys.

Cayless I am not so sure on. The roosters were not keen on keeping him despite losing an assistant & I am sure I read he had previously been moved on from Parra & the Warriors, who don't exactly have a history of success.

I would have preferred someone other than Cayless (& not Flanagan) but time will tell.

I agree it’s same for same just younger .. Gardiner no problem but the other assistant should of come totally from outside the Tigers and coaches system.
The talk was good from the club initially then straight back to jobs for the boys , there is some very insecure issues at the club .
This is the first fail for Emperor Sheens !

 

[balmain boy]

Ok, I think we have made a huge mistake.

So Nathan Cayless. A really tough player, the Eels were Hindmarsh and Cayless and clearly Cayless could pull off the big hits. Physical conditioning, tackling etc would be fine. Cayless definitely inspired people.

Except remember the Eels. Nathan Hindmarsh was in every tackle. He literally wasn't repicked for State of Origin in a struggling period because Hindmarsh wasn't seen as a Prop. He did everything. (yes he was picked again for a token game). My point, the Eels had no structure when Cayless was Captain.

Yes Parramatta was a strongly defensive side and yes Cayless was the other Parramatta player making the tackle with Hindmarsh. But that is defense through bulk, not smarts.

Is Cayless going to coach Wressling? Cayless retires after playing Melbourne so he faced the Chicken wingers. But is he going to coach it into people? We are often regarded as Soft. Several games we just let tries in. We don't wressle anywhere well enough compared to the other teams.

Maybe I am wrong. Cayless reminds me of Todd Payten and as a player Cayless was far better. I really hope he brings his Grit to the coaching role as that is what we need. Nathan's brother Jason Cayless did NOTHING as a player so I have to wonder.

Gardiner IMHO we saw 2021 and well he is back. No real change so were back to 13th. He has that experience across Sydney and he brings this, but is that what we need.

I would have gone totally different:
Shane Flanagan + Josh Morris. I know not John but Josh Morris. Brett is working at Easts, Josh would have been perfect to coach defense into our centers. We need someone to get good defensive combinations in our back line.

Your do realise coaches don't coach players the same way that they played? Bellamy was a pretty average player but boy can he coach.

Cayless' playing history has no impact on his role with us.

It's his being let go by a few clubs now that's the worrying part

 

[happy_tiger]

The Roosters are not perfect , just because they let someone fo don’t mean they are no good

I just wish we were not as perfect as the Roosters ...even for just one season .....please

 

[88]

Not sure if already mentioned but hopefully one/both of those assistants can fill like a Ciraldo type role with us, ie: establishment really strong bonds with the young core of our club and really generate some great culture and passion to play for each other.

Reckon assistants are super important with them playing big roles on attack and defence structures and buy in. Good luck to them both.

 

[member850]

I’ll hold judgment on Gardiner. I always felt we had team of above average players in reserve grade with not many really ready to make the step up to 1st grade. Whereas other teams had average players across the team with an nrl ready prop, second rower or back thrown in the mix. We did well in KOE Comp but other teams had the better replacements for 1st grade which really mattered

 

[tiger_one]

In October 2018, Nathan Cayless resigned as head coach of Wentworthville. The Parramatta Eels also announced that they would be ending their partnership with Wentworthville after the conclusion of the 2019 season. Parramatta CEO Bernie Gurr spoke to the media saying "Out of the review we found if we want to be a successful development club we need to have the Parramatta Eels in the ISP. Then you've got a clear one-club mentality".

Yes, this "one club mentality" is exactly what Coach Sheens advocated all those years ago bringing in the one reserve grade at the Wests Tigers.