innsaneink
Well-known member
We would have THE worst facilities I'd safely bet
I've got no opinion on the likely appointment of Cleary. I don't know enough one way or another.
He's not a marquee coach, why would Penrith let him go if he was?
It's ironic though that Anthony Griffin was not chosen for the Tigers job when Taylor got it.
Penrith then booted Cleary for him. Look at the job he's done there!
Whether it's Cleary or another coach in twelve months time, the skills they're going to have to have is as much about personnel (players, board, managers, sponsors etc) management as skill development of the squad.
I think we all agree that the current roster is not going to threaten a premiership in the near future. And, there doesn't seem to be a board structure or direction (Marina Go is looking increasingly out of her depth) to change that.
Maybe…..just maybe....if Cleary has the depth of respect and gravitas that Taylor and Potter seemed to lack, his appointment could be a good thing. His decisions about team selection, player retention and recruitment will define his immediate future at the Tigers.
After all, we don't mind getting rid of under-performing coaches!
He's not a marquee coach, why would Penrith let him go if he was?
It's ironic though that Anthony Griffin was not chosen for the Tigers job when Taylor got it.
Penrith then booted Cleary for him. Look at the job he's done there!
Whether it's Cleary or another coach in twelve months time, the skills they're going to have to have is as much about personnel (players, board, managers, sponsors etc) management as skill development of the squad.
I think we all agree that the current roster is not going to threaten a premiership in the near future. And, there doesn't seem to be a board structure or direction (Marina Go is looking increasingly out of her depth) to change that.
Maybe…..just maybe....if Cleary has the depth of respect and gravitas that Taylor and Potter seemed to lack, his appointment could be a good thing. His decisions about team selection, player retention and recruitment will define his immediate future at the Tigers.
After all, we don't mind getting rid of under-performing coaches!
jirskyr
Well-known member
SMH are reporting just this hour that Cleary will join this week, 3.5 years until end 2020.
http://www.smh.com.au/rugby-league/league-news/wests-tigers-to-offer-ivan-cleary-three-and-a-half-year-coaching-deal-20170328-gv7yu3.html
Wests Tigers to offer Ivan Cleary three-and-a-half year coaching deal
Michael Chammas
The Wests Tigers are set to offer Ivan Cleary a 3½-year deal after the club hierarchy met with the coach on Monday to discuss plans for him to lead the joint venture until the end of 2020.
>
The Tigers are now in the final stages of negotiations and wrapping up a deal that would likely see Cleary join this week – but he may not take the coaching reins until their round-six clash against the Cowboys.
>
The board has given the green light for chief executive Justin Pascoe, who has a close relationship with Cleary from their time together at Penrith, to finalise the contract before they sign off on the deal.
>
Cleary's pending arrival at Concord will bring an end to speculation linking him to the Bulldogs as a replacement for Des Hasler, whose future will be the main topic of discussion at Thursday's Canterbury board meeting at ANZ Stadium.
>
The Tigers haven't given up hope of playing finals football in 2017, hence their desire to move quickly on securing Cleary's services.
>
However the club also needs to make significant decisions regarding their roster, which will be Cleary's first assignment when he returns to the NRL coaching ranks in the coming days.
>
Aaron Woods, James Tedesco, Mitchell Moses and Luke Brooks have been waiting for the club to decide on who will be coach in 2018 and beyond before committing to the club.
>
But now that the picture is about to become a whole lot clearer, the club will look to finalise the four as soon as possible.
>
An announcement on Cleary's appointment could be made as early as Wednesday if the club and Cleary's management come to a quick agreement over the details of the deal.
>
There had been a suggestion the Bulldogs had been circling for Woods, however given the uncertainty surrounding their coaching position it seems unlikely the Australian prop would leave his beloved Tigers unless there were complications between he and Cleary.
>
Despite last Sunday's loss to the Storm, Tigers officials remain confident about their aspirations for this season given a notable "improvement in effort" from the previous two weeks.
http://www.smh.com.au/rugby-league/league-news/wests-tigers-to-offer-ivan-cleary-three-and-a-half-year-coaching-deal-20170328-gv7yu3.html
Wests Tigers to offer Ivan Cleary three-and-a-half year coaching deal
Michael Chammas
The Wests Tigers are set to offer Ivan Cleary a 3½-year deal after the club hierarchy met with the coach on Monday to discuss plans for him to lead the joint venture until the end of 2020.
>
The Tigers are now in the final stages of negotiations and wrapping up a deal that would likely see Cleary join this week – but he may not take the coaching reins until their round-six clash against the Cowboys.
>
The board has given the green light for chief executive Justin Pascoe, who has a close relationship with Cleary from their time together at Penrith, to finalise the contract before they sign off on the deal.
>
Cleary's pending arrival at Concord will bring an end to speculation linking him to the Bulldogs as a replacement for Des Hasler, whose future will be the main topic of discussion at Thursday's Canterbury board meeting at ANZ Stadium.
>
The Tigers haven't given up hope of playing finals football in 2017, hence their desire to move quickly on securing Cleary's services.
>
However the club also needs to make significant decisions regarding their roster, which will be Cleary's first assignment when he returns to the NRL coaching ranks in the coming days.
>
Aaron Woods, James Tedesco, Mitchell Moses and Luke Brooks have been waiting for the club to decide on who will be coach in 2018 and beyond before committing to the club.
>
But now that the picture is about to become a whole lot clearer, the club will look to finalise the four as soon as possible.
>
An announcement on Cleary's appointment could be made as early as Wednesday if the club and Cleary's management come to a quick agreement over the details of the deal.
>
There had been a suggestion the Bulldogs had been circling for Woods, however given the uncertainty surrounding their coaching position it seems unlikely the Australian prop would leave his beloved Tigers unless there were complications between he and Cleary.
>
Despite last Sunday's loss to the Storm, Tigers officials remain confident about their aspirations for this season given a notable "improvement in effort" from the previous two weeks.
@ said:
The situation Wests Tigers are currently reminds me very much of the situation Newtown RLFC were in just prior to 1980\. They had been struggling for over five years but Warren Ryan became coach and john singleton became a benefactor of the club and many good player including Tom Radonoukis and Graeme O'Grady. The next year, 1981, Newtown played in the grand final and put up a great effort against Parramatta.
Wests Tigers set to announce Ivan Cleary as new head coach
WESTS Tigers will confirm Ivan Cleary as the club’s new head coach within days.
Fox Sports’ chief NRL reporter James Hooper revealed to NRL Tonight an announcement will be made this week or early next week, and says Cleary could even coach the side in round five against the Dragons on Sunday.
“It looks as though Ivan Cleary is absolutely going to be the Wests Tigers head coach effective immediately,” Hooper said.
“We don’t think that announcement will be made tomorrow (Wednesday), more likely the end of the week or even early next week.
“Guaranteed Ivan Cleary will be the Wests Tigers head coach.”
Fairfax Media is reporting the deal will be for three and a half seasons, expiring in 2020.
It's been the worst kept secret in rugby league since Jason Taylor was unceremoniously dumped by the Tigers last Monday.
Cleary is one of the most experienced coaches in the game but hasn’t worked fulltime at a club since being shown the door by Penrith at the end of 2015.
He’s coaching Lebanon at the World Cup this year but will now need to juggle that with his Tigers commitments.
Retired premiership player Mick Ennis told NRL Tonight he thinks Cleary will be a perfect fit at Concord.
But Ennis also said Cleary could work wonders at Canterbury — eluding to the ongoing speculation around Des Hasler’s position as Bulldogs coach.
“Ivan’s a tremendous coach,” Ennis said.
“I’ve heard some people say over the last week that he did such a great job at Penrith, bringing that squad together and doing what he did there.
“But I hear Gus say after five years he thought he probably just needed a break, and he’s had a good break now.
“He walks into that Tigers side … with a pretty handy roster, a fresh voice and the experience that he brings.
“The two clubs he’s worked at previously have been similar in that they were underperforming sides.
“I think he would be perfect for the job.
“I think Ivan would do a tremendous job at Canterbury, walking into that roster.”
\
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http://www.foxsports.com.au/nrl/nrl-premiership/teams/tigers/nrl-media-watch-wests-tigers-set-to-announce-ivan-cleary-as-new-head-coach/news-story/0f95988b6c4e60e549dd896eb59a3201
WESTS Tigers will confirm Ivan Cleary as the club’s new head coach within days.
Fox Sports’ chief NRL reporter James Hooper revealed to NRL Tonight an announcement will be made this week or early next week, and says Cleary could even coach the side in round five against the Dragons on Sunday.
“It looks as though Ivan Cleary is absolutely going to be the Wests Tigers head coach effective immediately,” Hooper said.
“We don’t think that announcement will be made tomorrow (Wednesday), more likely the end of the week or even early next week.
“Guaranteed Ivan Cleary will be the Wests Tigers head coach.”
Fairfax Media is reporting the deal will be for three and a half seasons, expiring in 2020.
It's been the worst kept secret in rugby league since Jason Taylor was unceremoniously dumped by the Tigers last Monday.
Cleary is one of the most experienced coaches in the game but hasn’t worked fulltime at a club since being shown the door by Penrith at the end of 2015.
He’s coaching Lebanon at the World Cup this year but will now need to juggle that with his Tigers commitments.
Retired premiership player Mick Ennis told NRL Tonight he thinks Cleary will be a perfect fit at Concord.
But Ennis also said Cleary could work wonders at Canterbury — eluding to the ongoing speculation around Des Hasler’s position as Bulldogs coach.
“Ivan’s a tremendous coach,” Ennis said.
“I’ve heard some people say over the last week that he did such a great job at Penrith, bringing that squad together and doing what he did there.
“But I hear Gus say after five years he thought he probably just needed a break, and he’s had a good break now.
“He walks into that Tigers side … with a pretty handy roster, a fresh voice and the experience that he brings.
“The two clubs he’s worked at previously have been similar in that they were underperforming sides.
“I think he would be perfect for the job.
“I think Ivan would do a tremendous job at Canterbury, walking into that roster.”
\
\
http://www.foxsports.com.au/nrl/nrl-premiership/teams/tigers/nrl-media-watch-wests-tigers-set-to-announce-ivan-cleary-as-new-head-coach/news-story/0f95988b6c4e60e549dd896eb59a3201
southerntiger
New member
I don't have an opinion on Cleary. Thought he didnt do much with the best junior system in the country but I like his professionalism and that he seems like a decent bloke.
His record is surprisingly nothing to write home about:
**Years Team Gms W D L W%**
2006–11 New Zealand Warriors 137 68 3 66 50
2012–15 Penrith Panthers 112 53 0 59 47
**Total 249 121 3 125 49**
Given the squads he had, this is not as good as I would have expected given the hype on here. I had assumed that he had at least a 50% record at the Panthers given he is treated as the next messiah.
By contrast, the record of the coach you all hate:
**Years Team Gms W D L W%**
2006 Parramatta Eels 16 10 0 6 63
2007–09 South Sydney 73 31 1 41 42
2015–17 Wests Tigers 51 20 0 31 39
**Total 140 61 1 78 44**
Given the squads he had at all three clubs compared to Ivan the Great, the record is just as good, if not better.
And the coach you all think is the devil
**Years Team Gms W D L W%**
1984–87 Penrith Panthers 98 43 4 51 44
1988–96 Canberra Raiders 219 148 3 68 68
1997–01 North Queensland Cowboys 103 27 4 72 26
**2003–12 Wests Tigers 249 122 0 127 49**
2016– Hull Kingston Rovers 5 5 0 0 100
**Total 674 345 11 318 51**
Bring back Tim. So, Sheens' record at Wests Tigers with a patchwork squad over a longer period is better than Ivan's record at Penrith, with the best juniors in the country.
I think we have been sold a pup.
His record is surprisingly nothing to write home about:
**Years Team Gms W D L W%**
2006–11 New Zealand Warriors 137 68 3 66 50
2012–15 Penrith Panthers 112 53 0 59 47
**Total 249 121 3 125 49**
Given the squads he had, this is not as good as I would have expected given the hype on here. I had assumed that he had at least a 50% record at the Panthers given he is treated as the next messiah.
By contrast, the record of the coach you all hate:
**Years Team Gms W D L W%**
2006 Parramatta Eels 16 10 0 6 63
2007–09 South Sydney 73 31 1 41 42
2015–17 Wests Tigers 51 20 0 31 39
**Total 140 61 1 78 44**
Given the squads he had at all three clubs compared to Ivan the Great, the record is just as good, if not better.
And the coach you all think is the devil
**Years Team Gms W D L W%**
1984–87 Penrith Panthers 98 43 4 51 44
1988–96 Canberra Raiders 219 148 3 68 68
1997–01 North Queensland Cowboys 103 27 4 72 26
**2003–12 Wests Tigers 249 122 0 127 49**
2016– Hull Kingston Rovers 5 5 0 0 100
**Total 674 345 11 318 51**
Bring back Tim. So, Sheens' record at Wests Tigers with a patchwork squad over a longer period is better than Ivan's record at Penrith, with the best juniors in the country.
I think we have been sold a pup.
upper-d
Member
REALLY liked this article up until the last line..
@ said:
Penrith are where they are now because of Cleary's work.
He took them to a top 4 position in 2014\. Was sacked in 2015 after a disappointing season, but they were obliterated by injuries. From memory they finished the season with Korisau and Peachey in the halves and Taylor, Kite, and Campbell-Gillard all injured.
He took them to a top 4 position in 2014\. Was sacked in 2015 after a disappointing season, but they were obliterated by injuries. From memory they finished the season with Korisau and Peachey in the halves and Taylor, Kite, and Campbell-Gillard all injured.
851
Well-known member
@ said:
Cleary has been one of only 2 coaches who got the warriors playing good consistent footy, he took Penrith to a grand final prelim after totally rebuilding the club after Lewis, Jennings and co were shown the door. His record took a hit with the massive injury toll the panthers got there in his last year.
And you if you think JT is a better coach I will not bother replying anymore, JT has never had any man management skill, never been able as a player or coach to avoid trouble where ever he went, he is not cut out for a head coach job, seriously he can talk it up, but can't back it up.
southerntiger
New member
@ said:
Big call. They came 2nd in the regular season in 2010 just 2 years before Ivan started. They had a poor season in 2011 admittedly.
Gould may also disagree with you assessment. The Panthers have had significant systems around juniors, retention well before Ivan came.
southerntiger
New member
@ said:
I didnt say JT was a better coach. I made no such assessment. I simply looked at the records of each of Sheens, Cleary and Taylor. It is pretty clear, when taking into account resources, that Cleary's record is little or no better than Taylor's record and substantially worse than Sheens' record.
Probably a big call. I think suspect Cleary had a role in the development of quite a number of players currently in first grade.
In any case, lumping together all the seasons distorts the figures. The facts are Cleary has coached teams to preliminary finals and grand finals, something JT never looked like doing. He also left Penrith and Warriors in reasonable shape. The harsh reality is we went backwards under JT. I think Cleary compares very favorably.
I don't think Sheens' record can be questioned. If Cleary brings us a premiership a finals appearance and nothing more over a similar period of time I'll be very happy.
In any case, lumping together all the seasons distorts the figures. The facts are Cleary has coached teams to preliminary finals and grand finals, something JT never looked like doing. He also left Penrith and Warriors in reasonable shape. The harsh reality is we went backwards under JT. I think Cleary compares very favorably.
I don't think Sheens' record can be questioned. If Cleary brings us a premiership a finals appearance and nothing more over a similar period of time I'll be very happy.
Penrith were on their knees until Jamie Packer saved them with an injection of cash,-after a massive clean out- as a favour to Gus. Pretty sure Ivan was appointed soon after that time and they got the club back on track and thriving.
Perfect timing for Ivan to come to the WTs not disimilar to the situation he was in at Penrith.
Perfect timing for Ivan to come to the WTs not disimilar to the situation he was in at Penrith.
southerntiger
New member
Penrith record:
2010 - 2nd (Matthew Elliott
2011 - 12th (Elliott/Stee Georgalis)
2012 - 15th (Ivan Cleary)
2013 - 10th (Ivan Cleary)
2014 - 2nd (Ivan Cleary
2015 - 11th (Ivan Cleary)
So, one good season in four.
Not trying to run the guy down. But hardly a record that suggests he will do any better than Sheens/Potter Taylor.
His record in his first two seasons at Penrith was worse than Taylor's first two seasons here and he had a far better squad as a starting point. You guys would have lynched him if he had that record here.
2010 - 2nd (Matthew Elliott
2011 - 12th (Elliott/Stee Georgalis)
2012 - 15th (Ivan Cleary)
2013 - 10th (Ivan Cleary)
2014 - 2nd (Ivan Cleary
2015 - 11th (Ivan Cleary)
So, one good season in four.
Not trying to run the guy down. But hardly a record that suggests he will do any better than Sheens/Potter Taylor.
His record in his first two seasons at Penrith was worse than Taylor's first two seasons here and he had a far better squad as a starting point. You guys would have lynched him if he had that record here.
@ said:
You can take a lot out of stats like these.
What I see in the stats presented is there is a very good reason that said hated coach didn't coach 1st grade from 2010 til 2015.
Also what I see if you add 63+41+31 in your losses that equals 135 losses
so in looking more closely to your stats id be taking said messiah everyday day of the week
As for the devil I wouldnt be against him returning in some sort of role why not at the end of the day he's the only coach that has given us glory so why not
southerntiger
New member
@ said:
Not 63, only 6 losses at Parra. I tried to line up the columns but when it posted it reverted to being out of alignment.
http://m.nrl.com/panthers-2015-season-review/tabid/10874/newsid/89577/default.aspx
2015 when panthers came second last they had a dozen players out throughout the year. Ten players were injured when the season was finished. He used 11 different halves combos. No coach could do well with that injury rate.
2015 when panthers came second last they had a dozen players out throughout the year. Ten players were injured when the season was finished. He used 11 different halves combos. No coach could do well with that injury rate.
