WESTS TIGERS - COACH IVAN CLEARY..OFFICIAL

[southerntiger]

I have realised my memory never stacks up to the facts. For example, I thought Bennett had a poor record at the Knights. He didnt. It simply wasn't as good as elsewhere.

Similarly, I thought Cleary had a far better record at the Panthers than the stats back up. I remember being astounded that Gould sacked him.

I have a lot of time for the Moneyball theory for this reason. We let our impressions and perceptions of events become reality.

 

[happy_tiger]

My take on Cleary is he gets the most out of his squads. The warriors were a rabble and spent way under the cap for his tenure there and I believe they made the finals 4 years out of 6 and made the GF. Penrith he got rid of Jenning, Lewis, Coote and others bro sort out the salary cap and rebuild the club. They made the prelim and if I am correct they had s bad injury toll and he was sacked.

I suppose you can look at the quality of the squad. They have assembled most were developed under him.!

This is the squad Cleary inherited at the Warriors:

33 Awen Guttenbeil New Zealand SR 14 April 1996 23 1 0 0 4
64 Wairangi Koopu New Zealand CE / SR 9 April 1999 20 6 0 0 24
66 Clinton Toopi New Zealand CE 2 May 1999 10 1 0 0 4
87 Richard Villasanti Australia PR 18 February 2001 1 0 0 0 0
97 Brent Webb New Zealand FB 1 April 2002 22 11 0 0 44
98 Sione Faumuina New Zealand CE / LK 1 April 2002 17 4 0 0 16
99 Lance Hohaia New Zealand UB 6 April 2002 12 5 14 0 48
102 Evarn Tuimavave New Zealand PR 1 September 2002 23 4 0 0 16
108 Jerome Ropati New Zealand CE / FE 31 August 2003 22 9 0 0 36
109 Tony Martin Australia CE 14 March 2004 20 6 68 0 160
110 Epalahame Lauaki New Zealand SR 14 March 2004 8 1 0 0 4
112 Louis Anderson New Zealand LK 28 March 2004 23 1 0 0 4
115 Manu Vatuvei New Zealand WG 23 May 2004 18 10 0 0 40
118 Cooper Vuna New Zealand WG 21 August 2004 3 0 0 0 0
121 Steve Price Australia PR 13 March 2005 21 5 0 0 20
122 Todd Byrne Australia WG 13 March 2005 9 2 0 0 8
123 Ruben Wiki New Zealand PR 13 March 2005 22 6 0 0 24
124 Nathan Fien New Zealand HK 13 March 2005 21 4 0 0 16
125 Simon Mannering New Zealand CE 26 June 2005 17 9 0 0 36
126 Micheal Luck Australia SR 12 March 2006 24 1 0 0 4
127 Grant Rovelli Italy HB 12 March 2006 24 4 0 0 16
128 George Gatis Greece HK 25 March 2006 17 2 0 0 8
129 Patrick Ah Van New Zealand WG 9 April 2006 15 4 0 0 16
130 Misi Taulapapa Samoa WG 22 April 2006 5 0 0 0 0
131 Sam Rapira New Zealand PR 20 May 2006 10 1 0 0 4

Not a bad squad. I doubt that was well under the salary cap. My recollection is Price went there on a mint.

But I agree that Cleary does seem a good man manager and we probably need one of those after Potter and Taylor.

Wasn't Tate there around that time as well , went just after Price arrived

 

[southerntiger]

Tate was at the Warriors from 2008 to 2010.

The squad above was 2006.

 

[happy_tiger]

Tate was at the Warriors from 2008 to 2010.

The squad above was 2006.

Cool , my bad

Good forward pack , we would kill for most of those blokes

 

[rex2ce]

First thing the new coach should do is sign Tedesco, even if on slight overs, then withdraw the offers to the other imposters and look around to see who is available, if Broses are not playing to their ability because they dont like the coach or whatever , ask them if last months pay was the same as the month before, they have an obligation to play to the best of their ability at ALL times

 

[jadtiger]

What I take out of these stats is that our perception of a coach's record is often very different to reality.

That being said, a lot of players praise Cleary and if he gets us the players, then Im all good. IMO a good playing list is more important than a good coach.

I understand what you mean, Cleary still has to prove himself. Clearly he's a good guy, was a great footballer and apparently knows how to manage his players, but he did get cut from his last gig.

He did do pretty well with the Warriors, that's the main selling point for me: 10th, 4th, 8th, 14th, 5th, 6th (GF). Warriors haven't made the finals since.

Correct anybody who can get the warriors to do well is fine by me

 

[Cheffo]

I grew up competing against Ivan in Little A's and cricket. He was a gun at both and also at soccer. I lined up against him in a high school rugby league game. I'd played since I was 4 and went pretty well. It would have been one of his first ever games of league, so I absolutely gave it it to him and had my team target him. "he's a soccer player…he shouldn't be out here". Ivan destroyed us and then went on to play first grade just a couple of years later and I didn't. He then went on to play and coach with success at a variety of clubs. He scored the cute girl and married her. He's got a son who shows all the same special abilities Ivan has. The guy is just a winner.

My wins over Ivan over the years were few and we were never mates. I never played on the same team as him and I'm not sure he would remember me if I bumped into him now, but what I do know is the guy is just blessed with skills that make him a winner in everything he does. The prospect of being on the "same side" as him for once is exciting. If he comes to the Tigers, it will be great thing.

 

[colmcd]

Man I am glad to hear good things about Ivan.. But I want to know what kind of a coach he is.

He seemed to get Penrith out of a rutt. But he turned them upsidedown with Gus Gould… Contract negotiations happened and many people walked.

Is he defensive? The Warriors did make the final, but it took AGES to get them there. prior to 2006 they seemed like an outside top 8 team.

 

[sideline_eye]

Probably a big call. I think suspect Cleary had a role in the development of quite a number of players currently in first grade.

In any case, lumping together all the seasons distorts the figures. The facts are Cleary has coached teams to preliminary finals and grand finals, something JT never looked like doing. He also left Penrith and Warriors in reasonable shape. The harsh reality is we went backwards under JT. I think Cleary compares very favorably.

I don't think Sheens' record can be questioned. If Cleary brings us a premiership a finals appearance and nothing more over a similar period of time I'll be very happy.

Really? My memory tells me (and I admit it can be faulty) that JT took Parra and Souths to finals appearances.

 

[innsaneink]

Yeah JT had nearly a season with Parra and three with souths making the eight three out of those four and finishing in the black 3 times with f/a.

 

[southerntiger]

And dont forget he was an interim coach at Parra appointed because another coach was sacked. In other words he was starting from well behind.

For whatever reason JT didnt get the job done here. It was the right decision to let him go.

Lets pray that Cleary does because my patience is wearing thin.

 

[Swordy]

I don't have an opinion on Cleary. Thought he didnt do much with the best junior system in the country but I like his professionalism and that he seems like a decent bloke.

His record is surprisingly nothing to write home about:

**Years Team Gms W D L W%**
2006–11 New Zealand Warriors 137 68 3 66 50
2012–15 Penrith Panthers 112 53 0 59 47
**Total 249 121 3 125 49**

Given the squads he had, this is not as good as I would have expected given the hype on here. I had assumed that he had at least a 50% record at the Panthers given he is treated as the next messiah.

By contrast, the record of the coach you all hate:

**Years Team Gms W D L W%**
2006 Parramatta Eels 16 10 0 6 63
2007–09 South Sydney 73 31 1 41 42
2015–17 Wests Tigers 51 20 0 31 39
**Total 140 61 1 78 44**

Given the squads he had at all three clubs compared to Ivan the Great, the record is just as good, if not better.

And the coach you all think is the devil

**Years Team Gms W D L W%**
1984–87 Penrith Panthers 98 43 4 51 44
1988–96 Canberra Raiders 219 148 3 68 68
1997–01 North Queensland Cowboys 103 27 4 72 26
**2003–12 Wests Tigers 249 122 0 127 49**
2016– Hull Kingston Rovers 5 5 0 0 100
**Total 674 345 11 318 51**

Bring back Tim. So, Sheens' record at Wests Tigers with a patchwork squad over a longer period is better than Ivan's record at Penrith, with the best juniors in the country.

I think we have been sold a pup.

Cleary has been one of only 2 coaches who got the warriors playing good consistent footy, he took Penrith to a grand final prelim after totally rebuilding the club after Lewis, Jennings and co were shown the door. His record took a hit with the massive injury toll the panthers got there in his last year.
And you if you think JT is a better coach I will not bother replying anymore, JT has never had any man management skill, never been able as a player or coach to avoid trouble where ever he went, he is not cut out for a head coach job, seriously he can talk it up, but can't back it up.

851- you should be smiling mate. JT is gone for good.

No mention of him being a better coach, but youve managed to throw another paragraph in about JT being a tool. Normal people dont see a confirmed corpse on the ground and then grab a knife an keep stabbing.

Take deep breaths. He's gone.

Let it go…..let it go....

 

[jirskyr]

I have realised my memory never stacks up to the facts. For example, I thought Bennett had a poor record at the Knights. He didnt. It simply wasn't as good as elsewhere.

Similarly, I thought Cleary had a far better record at the Panthers than the stats back up. I remember being astounded that Gould sacked him.

I have a lot of time for the Moneyball theory for this reason. We let our impressions and perceptions of events become reality.

Welcome, brother, to the statistical analysis team.

But just remember what others will say, "you can make stats say anything".

 

[old_man_tiger]

I have realised my memory never stacks up to the facts. For example, I thought Bennett had a poor record at the Knights. He didnt. It simply wasn't as good as elsewhere.

Similarly, I thought Cleary had a far better record at the Panthers than the stats back up. I remember being astounded that Gould sacked him.

I have a lot of time for the Moneyball theory for this reason. We let our impressions and perceptions of events become reality.

Welcome, brother, to the statistical analysis team.

But just remember what others will say, "you can make stats say anything".

Your posts and the J curve by juro are some of the best.

I would think that if you want to win games, a win percentage is a useful stat.

 

[bonstonker]

I have realised my memory never stacks up to the facts. For example, I thought Bennett had a poor record at the Knights. He didnt. It simply wasn't as good as elsewhere.

Similarly, I thought Cleary had a far better record at the Panthers than the stats back up. I remember being astounded that Gould sacked him.

I have a lot of time for the Moneyball theory for this reason. We let our impressions and perceptions of events become reality.

Welcome, brother, to the statistical analysis team.

But just remember what others will say, "you can make stats say anything".

those other people were probably the same ones that were going on about sheens total win percentage every week.
\
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as for cleary,he seems to have alot of respect around the league.
and what we need right now is some credibility and i think he will help give us that in regards to recruitment.

to only have lawrence on the books as a liability over these next 3 years,he has every opportunity to succeed.
along with some control over the roster,he is being given something potter and taylor could only dream about.

i'm glad they have been decisive in their sacking and now hiring,and we can finally move forward.

 

[tigerap]

We are about to enter an era in recent WT history that is unprecedented since the departure of Sheens.

1) We will have a well credentialed, respected NRL tier 1 coach.
2) The coach will have the opportunity to build his own roster almost from day 1 (not wait 3-4 years).
3) The coach has run on the board in terms of his coaching ability and his man management ability – both very important attributes, something that we have not had previously.
4) The coach will have full control and ownership of the Football operations

These 4 reasons above give me hope that for the rest of 2017 he can put somethings in place that will deliver continued semi finals football to the WT fans in 2018-2020\. With a bit of luck we may also jag a semi spot in 2017.

I’m optimistic for our future.

 

[Cultured_Bogan]

Cleary will have something here that he won't have at the Dogs. The ability to build the roster from scratch. Canterbury have some 14 names off contract according to Zero Tackle, the only ones seeing regular FG time are Hopoate, Lichaa, Reynolds & Elliot. Then you've got fringe players like Holland, Garvey, Smith.

Dessie may have created another cap black hole, the ability to build a roster would be a much more enticing prospect for an established coach.

 

[Pokies]

Probably a big call. I think suspect Cleary had a role in the development of quite a number of players currently in first grade.

In any case, lumping together all the seasons distorts the figures. The facts are Cleary has coached teams to preliminary finals and grand finals, something JT never looked like doing. He also left Penrith and Warriors in reasonable shape. The harsh reality is we went backwards under JT. I think Cleary compares very favorably.

I don't think Sheens' record can be questioned. If Cleary brings us a premiership a finals appearance and nothing more over a similar period of time I'll be very happy.

Really? My memory tells me (and I admit it can be faulty) that JT took Parra and Souths to finals appearances.

He mentioned Prelim Finals + Grand finals. JT never made it past the first round of the final series.

 

[stryker]

I have realised my memory never stacks up to the facts. For example, I thought Bennett had a poor record at the Knights. He didnt. It simply wasn't as good as elsewhere.

Similarly, I thought Cleary had a far better record at the Panthers than the stats back up. I remember being astounded that Gould sacked him.

I have a lot of time for the Moneyball theory for this reason. We let our impressions and perceptions of events become reality.

Welcome, brother, to the statistical analysis team.

But just remember what others will say, "you can make stats say anything".

You certainly can…for instance i am 98% sure that 80% of the time, stats only tell 45% of the story about how a game was won or lost.

 

[Pokies]

Yeah JT had nearly a season with Parra and three with souths making the eight three out of those four and finishing in the black 3 times with f/a.

2 out of 4

Parra - 8th 2006

Souths - 7th 2007, 14th 2008, 10th 2009