Wests Tigers coach Jason Taylor gives halves Luke Brooks and Mitchell Moses licence to entertain

[stevetiger]

Last year was terrible and Taylor stuffed up. It was our worst ever season. Argue as much as you want but the results speak for themselves. When he came out and had a go at previous coaches/players it was a joke but unfortunately it was on Taylor.

It showed that he was extremely inexperienced and had a lot to learn.

I hope he gets it right this year.

Once again Steve,on about how JT stuffed up :blah :blah :blah :blah :blah :blah ,unfortunately you dont want to accept what he was trying to do….whatever he did last year I will bet the team perform much better this year,but then again you will find something to nit pick him for....

Once again you and the apologists can't face reality. It's all Wobbie's fault. In 258 years time our defence will be spot on. You can't attack without defending. Statistically we had a great season last year - we improved our for and against by .38 points in the critical 2 minutes past quarter time period. Blah, blah, blah, blah …..

Check the ladder from last year. End of story.

All I said was that you cant see what JT was trying to do last year with this young group,your quick to blame JT,maybe it took the young ones a lot longer to adapt to nrl …but keep blaming JT .... :master:

This is all wrong. I can see JT's mistakes and I don't make up fairy tales to make it to be something it isn't. I also support JT and I want him to do well.

You (and the other apologist's) seem to think JT walks on water and you will make up all sort of palava to rationalise your viewpoint. You aren't going to admit he made mistakes last year and that is your right but it'd be good for you to just drop it. It's gotten well past a joke when it appears JT and the players are stating last year was a failure.

 

[Telltails]

Once again Steve,on about how JT stuffed up :blah :blah :blah :blah :blah :blah ,unfortunately you dont want to accept what he was trying to do….whatever he did last year I will bet the team perform much better this year,but then again you will find something to nit pick him for....

Once again you and the apologists can't face reality. It's all Wobbie's fault. In 258 years time our defence will be spot on. You can't attack without defending. Statistically we had a great season last year - we improved our for and against by .38 points in the critical 2 minutes past quarter time period. Blah, blah, blah, blah …..

Check the ladder from last year. End of story.

All I said was that you cant see what JT was trying to do last year with this young group,your quick to blame JT,maybe it took the young ones a lot longer to adapt to nrl …but keep blaming JT .... :master:

This is all wrong. I can see JT's mistakes and I don't make up fairy tales to make it to be something it isn't. I also support JT and I want him to do well.

You (and the other apologist's) seem to think JT walks on water and you will make up all sort of palava to rationalise your viewpoint. You aren't going to admit he made mistakes last year and that is your right but it'd be good for you to just drop it. It's gotten well past a joke when it appears JT and the players are stating last year was a failure.

He is right - whatever way you look at it and regardless of who was responsible - coach, players, admin, all of the above - and regardless of what Taylor wanted to do,the year by anyone's standards was a failure. Whether it built the foundation for a better year this year we will find out soon enough.

 

[Russell]

So if last year built the foundation for a better year this year then last year wasn't a failure and JT didn't stuff up.

Or is that just spin from another Apologist.

Of course it is - anyone who doesn't agree with Steve is an Apologist and talks spin.

LOL!!!!!

 

[Telltails]

Money ….. the gulf between the best and the worst NRL clubs. They sought out the admin mess and generate some funds then we can compete in the player market and on the field.

But even when we sort the mess out , who do you think Greg Inglis , Cooper Cronk ,Sam Burgess etc want to play for when earning the same $$$'s

Club running 13th -16th consistently or a consistent Top 6 club ??

The Sharks have done it - still chasing the prize - but have attracted a good crop of quality players in the last few seasons and have moved their position up the ladder in doing so. We might never get the one of a kind players like Ingliss, but correct me if I am wrong but I dont think Souths were travelling too well, when they lured him from Melbourne with a big contract ? Put it this way - poor clubs are consistently at the bottom of the ladder more than the rich ones.

 

[stevetiger]

So if last year built the foundation for a better year this year then last year wasn't a failure and JT didn't stuff up.

Or is that just spin from another Apologist.

Of course it is - anyone who doesn't agree with Steve is an Apologist and talks spin.

LOL!!!!!

This is definitely not true. You can disagree with me on lots of points. Once you start stating last year was good and JT built the foundation for the club then you are delusional.

I've made mistakes at my job. You can learn from those mistakes and they can in fact help you. I'm hopeful that Taylor has learned from his mistakes. I can see him stating comments that sound a lot better. Maybe it's just spin but I hope not and I hope he does well.

The spin from some of you guys though is basically nutters and you keep bringing it up.

 

[TrueTiger]

So if last year built the foundation for a better year this year then last year wasn't a failure and JT didn't stuff up.

Or is that just spin from another Apologist.

Of course it is - anyone who doesn't agree with Steve is an Apologist and talks spin.

LOL!!!!!

Russell,I'm really sorry that I'm a nutter and try and see through the doom and gloom regarding our year last year,but I could clearly see what JT was trying to do,albeit he did make some mistakes as many do when they a trying to cultivate a winning culture in a team…but to solely pin it all on Taylor and not considering some of the playing base were a bit slow on the uptake is absolutely one sided...I have said it many times, this year is JTs judgement year he has everything going for him and if we don't improve on last year then he should have his contract analized for the next year..how am I an apologist or a Taylor loyalist when Iam completely honest in my evaluation of last years performances....the only thing I reckon Taylor stuffed up,was thinking this group of players he had were as good as the Roosters,and that was only because of the huge hype surrounding most of them....they fooled everyone with their ineptness at times,but that comes down to experience,they will have to perform a lot better if they think they are NRL superstars of the future relying completely on talent and ability without good coaching...let's see what this year brings and we will see who stuffs up and who doesn't......

 

[Telltails]

So if last year built the foundation for a better year this year then last year wasn't a failure and JT didn't stuff up.

Or is that just spin from another Apologist.

Of course it is - anyone who doesn't agree with Steve is an Apologist and talks spin.

LOL!!!!!

This is definitely not true. You can disagree with me on lots of points. Once you start stating last year was good and JT built the foundation for the club then you are delusional.

I've made mistakes at my job. You can learn from those mistakes and they can in fact help you. I'm hopeful that Taylor has learned from his mistakes. I can see him stating comments that sound a lot better. Maybe it's just spin but I hope not and I hope he does well.

The spin from some of you guys though is basically nutters and you keep bringing it up.

I agree with you Steve cant see how anyone would think that last year was anything but a fail - Taylor included. However the consensus seems to be he deserves more than one year to try and build this team into a competitive unit. I dont know if he can, or how he intends to make such a vast improvement on last years performance - some new players and coaching staff may help - however if he does no doubt you Russell and I will all be cheering - while copping the told you so's.

 

[innsaneink]

Just lock it

 

[stevetiger]

So if last year built the foundation for a better year this year then last year wasn't a failure and JT didn't stuff up.

Or is that just spin from another Apologist.

Of course it is - anyone who doesn't agree with Steve is an Apologist and talks spin.

LOL!!!!!

This is definitely not true. You can disagree with me on lots of points. Once you start stating last year was good and JT built the foundation for the club then you are delusional.

I've made mistakes at my job. You can learn from those mistakes and they can in fact help you. I'm hopeful that Taylor has learned from his mistakes. I can see him stating comments that sound a lot better. Maybe it's just spin but I hope not and I hope he does well.

The spin from some of you guys though is basically nutters and you keep bringing it up.

I agree with you Steve cant see how anyone would think that last year was anything but a fail - Taylor included. However the consensus seems to be he deserves more than one year to try and build this team into a competitive unit. I dont know if he can, or how he intends to make such a vast improvement on last years performance - some new players and coaching staff may help - however if he does no doubt you Russell and I will all be cheering - while copping the told you so's.

No need for told you so's. Let's just hope we have a good season this year.

 

[jirskyr]

I think people like Eddie and stevetiger are misunderstanding that many people commenting here are not explicitly JT supporters, but they are supporters of the ideas that JT is pushing.

Tigers are historically an ordinary defensive team. Tigers have historically favoured attack and played to the attacking strengths of their players. Tigers have made the finals 3/16 years.

Taylor says that teams that focus on defence first win titles, and I agree with this. In the past 5 seasons, only 1/40 team has made the Top 8 conceding more than 20 points per game (Raiders 2012). In this same period we've only conceded less than 22.96 ppg (average) once - 2011.

What is also true is that the average ppg conceded per game (all teams) is lower over the last 4 seasons than any time since 2004, except for 2011 (which is the lowest in that entire time). That is to say, defences are better (or attacks are worse) in the last 4 seasons.

JT has inherited a side where apart from Farah, the attacking spine had 60 games FG experience total. Even Aaron Woods had 85 games experience by this time. These are not seasoned, wise footballers, they are kids. And as a I coach I would also try to implement a simple game plan, reign in some of the attacking flair that these kids used to dominate junior defences.

I don't believe a coach ever fails to try and play to the strengths of the team. That is such a silly notion, that JT would be aware of some strength and just ignore it. What is crucial is that the team can improve where they are weak, and whether they can complete the fundamentals to be competitive every week. This is where I feel we are let down - not by boring structures or unimaginative play, but because our forwards can tend to get dominated, because we drop ball and give penalties.

 

[gallagher]

I think the main problem some have with Taylor is that he tried to get rid of Farah. Therfore, everything he has ever done and everything he will do in the future is wrong.

 

[Telltails]

I think the main problem some have with Taylor is that he tried to get rid of Farah. Therfore, everything he has ever done and everything he will do in the future is wrong.

Possibly Gallagher - but if he was coaching a winning team they wouldnt have a reason to be critical - he had a poor season and therefore people are entitled to question whether he is the right man for the job.

 

[gallagher]

I think the main problem some have with Taylor is that he tried to get rid of Farah. Therfore, everything he has ever done and everything he will do in the future is wrong.

Possibly Gallagher - but if he was coaching a winning team they wouldnt have a reason to be critical - he had a poor season and therefore people are entitled to question whether he is the right man for the job.

Yeah i agree. I'm not totally sold on him either, but last year was always gonna be tough on the team.
And I'm not saying he's beyond criticism . He needs to take responsibilty like everyone else. Which I'm sure he does.

 

[stevetiger]

I think the main problem some have with Taylor is that he tried to get rid of Farah. Therfore, everything he has ever done and everything he will do in the future is wrong.

Not me. I think he handled that situation really poorly but I don't think it affected last season. Results matter to me. I want to see us win more games.

I don't even have anything against Taylor.

 

[hobbo]

I think the main problem some have with Taylor is that he tried to get rid of Farah. Therfore, everything he has ever done and everything he will do in the future is wrong.

Not me. I think he handled that situation really poorly but I don't think it affected last season. Results matter to me. I want to see us win more games.

I don't even have anything against Taylor.

That's an understatement if I've ever heard one lol
Taylor lost the playing group , why do you think he apologised to Farah infront of the playing group
So what's the goal for this year Jason Taylor ??
Finish higher than equal last :laughing:

 

[stevetiger]

I think people like Eddie and stevetiger are misunderstanding that many people commenting here are not explicitly JT supporters, but they are supporters of the ideas that JT is pushing.

I'm not sold on that.

I don't believe a coach ever fails to try and play to the strengths of the team. That is such a silly notion, that JT would be aware of some strength and just ignore it. What is crucial is that the team can improve where they are weak, and whether they can complete the fundamentals to be competitive every week. This is where I feel we are let down - not by boring structures or unimaginative play, but because our forwards can tend to get dominated, because we drop ball and give penalties.

My take is that Taylor came in a little arrogant. He thought he had all the answers when he didn't. He spoke a bunch of palava and some on here actually bought it.

Meanwhile back in reality we were watching a team that wasn't performing and had a bad year. I think that one of the reasons we weren't performing was to do with JT's game plans. He was extremely negative and the team just seemed to go into their shells at times. I think another reason we were losing was that our forwards didn't go great but they weren't all too blame. I think losing Simona and Nofo for parts of the season hit us bad because we had some slow players around them. There were some other issues - players like Brooks, Moses and Sironen not really killing it but then again they are kids.

I'm hopeful that JT has learned from his mistakes. He has recruited well and our squad looks to me a lot better. He hasn't said stupid stuff like he did last year. He tends to choose good teams.

I think we can actually have a pretty big turnaround this year.

 

[Telltails]

I think the main problem some have with Taylor is that he tried to get rid of Farah. Therfore, everything he has ever done and everything he will do in the future is wrong.

Possibly Gallagher - but if he was coaching a winning team they wouldnt have a reason to be critical - he had a poor season and therefore people are entitled to question whether he is the right man for the job.

Yeah i agree. I'm not totally sold on him either, but last year was always gonna be tough on the team.
And I'm not saying he's beyond criticism . He needs to take responsibilty like everyone else. Which I'm sure he does.

Ha - I read most of the posts and we are regularly on opposite sides of the fence when it comes to Farah,( use to really get ticked off - toughened up a bit now lol) but if he plays well and the team starts winning with Taylor as coach Id say most would come around. I think we are all starved of winning,sick of the drama and this is as good as any place to vent. Hoping for a good start or it could get ugly.

 

[Eddie]

I think people like Eddie and stevetiger are misunderstanding that many people commenting here are not explicitly JT supporters, but they are supporters of the ideas that JT is pushing.

Tigers are historically an ordinary defensive team. Tigers have historically favoured attack and played to the attacking strengths of their players. Tigers have made the finals 3/16 years.

Taylor says that teams that focus on defence first win titles, and I agree with this. In the past 5 seasons, only 1/40 team has made the Top 8 conceding more than 20 points per game (Raiders 2012). In this same period we've only conceded less than 22.96 ppg (average) once - 2011.

What is also true is that the average ppg conceded per game (all teams) is lower over the last 4 seasons than any time since 2004, except for 2011 (which is the lowest in that entire time). That is to say, defences are better (or attacks are worse) in the last 4 seasons.

JT has inherited a side where apart from Farah, the attacking spine had 60 games FG experience total. Even Aaron Woods had 85 games experience by this time. These are not seasoned, wise footballers, they are kids. And as a I coach I would also try to implement a simple game plan, reign in some of the attacking flair that these kids used to dominate junior defences.

I don't believe a coach ever fails to try and play to the strengths of the team. That is such a silly notion, that JT would be aware of some strength and just ignore it. What is crucial is that the team can improve where they are weak, and whether they can complete the fundamentals to be competitive every week. This is where I feel we are let down - not by boring structures or unimaginative play, but because our forwards can tend to get dominated, because we drop ball and give penalties.

Mate you come across as quite patronising at times. Thinking other people misunderstand the point and so and so. I don't doubt your intelligence.

People make out last year was some sort of grand masterplan, or the year we had to have. I think it is a bit far fetched and people go a bit over the top with their praise of a coach who coached his side to 15th with 2 losses to the Spooners.

Sure the premise was right but I think Taylor like others made mistakes last year and will coach the side a lot better this year. I think he learnt from last year and will adapt his game plan somewhat to suit the players at his disposal.

Bottom line for me it is about winning games. We need to win more then last year i don't care if there are 1000 other statistical improvements.

 

[jirskyr]

Mate you come across as quite patronising at times. Thinking other people misunderstand the point and so and so. I don't doubt your intelligence.

People make out last year was some sort of grand masterplan, or the year we had to have. I think it is a bit far fetched and people go a bit over the top with their praise of a coach who coached his side to 15th with 2 losses to the Spooners.

Sure the premise was right but I think Taylor like others made mistakes last year and will coach the side a lot better this year. I think he learnt from last year and will adapt his game plan somewhat to suit the players at his disposal.

Bottom line for me it is about winning games. We need to win more then last year i don't care if there are 1000 other statistical improvements.

C'mon Eddie, too easy to point people out as appearing patronising:

People are kidding if they think 5 hit ups and a bomb is the closest way to success.

\

"Did anyone watch the Broncos, Cowboys and Roosters play last season (the three most successful sides)"

\

I just don't consider 15th as successful as some others i suppose.

I really do think you misunderstand what I am saying in this thread, sorry if you think that is patronising or a criticism of your intelligence. You say that people make out that coming 15th is acceptable, some kind of master plan. I am guessing I am supposed to be one of those people, and I don't know how you could think anyone thinks 2nd last is ok. I also don't know how you would think that a coach does not create a game plan with the strengths/weaknesses of his players in mind, as if he just makes it up regardless of the roster, and forces the same strategy weekly regardless of how the matches transpire.

I agree with you that the premise is about right, but I don't think last year was an abject failure just because we came 2nd last. I'm not defending the lack of wins. I think Taylor had a poor result, but it was only one season, he has another one, and this season will be the one where he gets to keep his job or not.

I personally think the game plans I saw last year were not unreasonable and not failing to account for our roster. We won games, played well, on and off all year, and I am 100% certain that the game plan did not switch on and off as often as our results did.

At some point I think the criticism comes off Taylor and goes to the players. Geo says it all the time, if we drop ball, give penalties and miss tackles, then of course we will lose games, regardless of game plan.

 

[Eddie]

Mate you come across as quite patronising at times. Thinking other people misunderstand the point and so and so. I don't doubt your intelligence.

People make out last year was some sort of grand masterplan, or the year we had to have. I think it is a bit far fetched and people go a bit over the top with their praise of a coach who coached his side to 15th with 2 losses to the Spooners.

Sure the premise was right but I think Taylor like others made mistakes last year and will coach the side a lot better this year. I think he learnt from last year and will adapt his game plan somewhat to suit the players at his disposal.

Bottom line for me it is about winning games. We need to win more then last year i don't care if there are 1000 other statistical improvements.

C'mon Eddie, too easy to point people out as appearing patronising:

People are kidding if they think 5 hit ups and a bomb is the closest way to success.

\

"Did anyone watch the Broncos, Cowboys and Roosters play last season (the three most successful sides)"

\

I just don't consider 15th as successful as some others i suppose.

I really do think you misunderstand what I am saying in this thread, sorry if you think that is patronising or a criticism of your intelligence. You say that people make out that coming 15th is acceptable, some kind of master plan. I am guessing I am supposed to be one of those people, and I don't know how you could think anyone thinks 2nd last is ok. I also don't know how you would think that a coach does not create a game plan with the strengths/weaknesses of his players in mind, as if he just makes it up regardless of the roster, and forces the same strategy weekly regardless of how the matches transpire.

I agree with you that the premise is about right, but I don't think last year was an abject failure just because we came 2nd last. I'm not defending the lack of wins. I think Taylor had a poor result, but it was only one season, he has another one, and this season will be the one where he gets to keep his job or not.

I personally think the game plans I saw last year were not unreasonable and not failing to account for our roster. We won games, played well, on and off all year, and I am 100% certain that the game plan did not switch on and off as often as our results did.

At some point I think the criticism comes off Taylor and goes to the players. Geo says it all the time, if we drop ball, give penalties and miss tackles, then of course we will lose games, regardless of game plan.

Your right this is the season he will be judged properly.

I have never called for him to be sacked, every coach deserves at least 2 seasons.

However more of the same and it won't be good enough for a 3rd season.

He bagged Sheens and Potters sides as being "down the bottom for years"

So its time to walk the talk. You can only spin stats for so long if your 15th again.