Winger Position for 2017

[GNR4LIFE]

Kev is to good to leave out of the side
And with how he performed against Penrith, which imo cost us the game, was enough to drop us out of the finals. Not Moses goal kicking against the storm and Titans.

I would rather a good singer who scores you lots of tries rather than a rubbish winger that bombs tries but kicks goals.
I think the best winger is Kev, but I wouldn't minds seeing Heleta Hunt or C Taylor
It is a mixture of fielding your best team and giving first-grade talent to quality youngsters

We got absolutely pummeled by the Panthers, but Rankin cost us the game? Right.

 

[TYGA]

We need to unearth a winger. We have in recent years Nofo, Simona, Jac, Koro.
Kev would be okay outside Simona as Simona's positional defence and reading of the game is quite good.
You can't justify Rankin at 75% GK as he is terrible out of our own end and bombs tries with poor positional play and his highly suspect under the high bar.

Kev has greater potential with the ball and finishing so he easily is the better option.

 

[Geo]

What's the deal with this goal-kicking Winger fallacy …currently I can only think of 2 playing NRL at the moment Gordon and Kahu and an argument can be made that one's a fullback the other a centre..

Maybe we could sign Cammy Maloney A Reynolds Thursto or Croker to play on the wing...cause when you shake the Goal-kicking Winger tree nothing falls out...

As for Kev..just stop..there are 2 sides to the game defensively he sucks and catching a bomb makes Matty Utai look like Izzy Folau...

We are stuck with manufacturing a winger and none of the candidates inspire confidence ...

 

[Newtown]

What's the deal with this goal-kicking Winger fallacy …currently I can only think of 2 playing NRL at the moment Gordon and Kahu and an argument can be made that one's a fullback the other a centre..

Maybe we could sign Cammy Maloney A Reynolds Thursto or Croker to play on the wing...cause when you shake the Goal-kicking Winger tree nothing falls out...

As for Kev..just stop..there are 2 sides to the game defensively he sucks and catching a bomb makes Matty Utai look like Izzy Folau...

We are stuck with manufacturing a winger and none of the candidates inspire confidence ...

Wests Tigers had the chance a few months back in signing Callum Anderson, a goal kicking winger.

 

[Geo]

What's the deal with this goal-kicking Winger fallacy …currently I can only think of 2 playing NRL at the moment Gordon and Kahu and an argument can be made that one's a fullback the other a centre..

Maybe we could sign Cammy Maloney A Reynolds Thursto or Croker to play on the wing...cause when you shake the Goal-kicking Winger tree nothing falls out...

As for Kev..just stop..there are 2 sides to the game defensively he sucks and catching a bomb makes Matty Utai look like Izzy Folau...

We are stuck with manufacturing a winger and none of the candidates inspire confidence ...

Wests Tigers had the chance a few months back in signing Callum Anderson, a goal kicking winger.

You mean Carlin Anderson.? How many NRL games has he played…?

Most games I've seen him play in Queensland Cup he was a fullback...went from Ipswich to the Blackhawks so can't of been to in demand..

 

[ricksen]

Kev is to good to leave out of the side
And with how he performed against Penrith, which imo cost us the game, was enough to drop us out of the finals. Not Moses goal kicking against the storm and Titans.

I would rather a good singer who scores you lots of tries rather than a rubbish winger that bombs tries but kicks goals.
I think the best winger is Kev, but I wouldn't minds seeing Heleta Hunt or C Taylor
It is a mixture of fielding your best team and giving first-grade talent to quality youngsters

I disagree with practically everything you said

I dunno mate, I quite like good singers.

On a serious note, I expect Moses to be the long term kicker. He kicked very well in the junior levels, and I expect he'll be able to spend more time on it as he gets older and the rest of his game looks after itself.
Rankin is rather poor, and is barely an average goalkicker anyway, so he shouldn't be in the conversation.

 

[NT_Tiger]

I don't think Rankin should even be in consideration for the starting team. He tries hard and would be good to have for backup but not there for the first team.

 

[batboy]

Our biggest problem with goal kicking is we can't and have never been able to score in the middle 3rd of the field.
Our kickers have it harder than most…

 

[Sabre]

There was talk of Denny Solomona earlier this year. He appears to be on the verge of signing with a Union club. He notched up 40 tries in 27 games with 50 line breaks and 84 tackle breaks. Even allowing for the fact that it was in ESL that is a pretty amazing record.

He'd be a great signing.
Imagine him and Tedesco linking up.

 

[Newtown]

What's the deal with this goal-kicking Winger fallacy …currently I can only think of 2 playing NRL at the moment Gordon and Kahu and an argument can be made that one's a fullback the other a centre..

Maybe we could sign Cammy Maloney A Reynolds Thursto or Croker to play on the wing...cause when you shake the Goal-kicking Winger tree nothing falls out...

As for Kev..just stop..there are 2 sides to the game defensively he sucks and catching a bomb makes Matty Utai look like Izzy Folau...

We are stuck with manufacturing a winger and none of the candidates inspire confidence ...

Wests Tigers had the chance a few months back in signing Callum Anderson, a goal kicking winger.

You mean Carlin Anderson.? How many NRL games has he played…?

Most games I've seen him play in Queensland Cup he was a fullback...went from Ipswich to the Blackhawks so can't of been to in demand..

Apparently Wests Tigers were very close to signing him three months ago after he suffered his major facial injury in June. Looks like a good one we let go of at a very reasonable price. Is also a very good goal kicker

Flyer quits Broncos for fresh start at Cowboys
Daily Telegraph -
October 24, 2016 - 10:57 pm

Broncos rookie Carlin Anderson is confident he can overcome a horrific facial injury after quitting Brisbane to chase his NRL dream with Queensland rivals the Cowboys. Just turned 21, Anderson will begin a new chapter with North Queensland, signing a one-year deal with the Cowboys’ Intrust Super Cup feeder club Townsville Blackhawks.

The indigenous flyer was tipped for big things at Red Hill in 2016 and flagged his potential with his selection in Brisbane’s squad for the Auckland Nines in February.

 

[2041]

I wonder how much difference goal kicking makes. I'm just thinking aloud here, no conclusions.

Moses kicks 64% for his career, which is about as bad as you can get for a regular kicker. 80% might be the benchmark, but it's a high one - very few players have ever kicked 80% for a single season. So let's say 75% is a more realistic expectation.

What this means is that Moses is missing one goal in 10 that a first-rate kicker would get. Let's say a decent team is getting five shots a game (the Tigers averaged almost exactly 20 points a game in 2016), at which point having a Moses-level kicker is costing exactly one kick every two games relative to the 75% kicker - or one point a game.

I'm not sure what all this means, except to say that even if Rankin was a 75% kicker and Moses can't improve on 64% it's certainly not cut and dried that it's worth running out a dud winger just to improve the goal kicking to the tune of a success every other week.

Pretty sure it would have meant a finals berth this year, instead of being disappointed. It was painful watching Moses missing a few shots whilst the game slipped away, particularly as he kept on making the same error..

I think my point is that none of this stuff happens in a vacuum. Of course it would be great if the Tigers had a player who was getting picked anyway and just happened to be an 80% goal kicker - a Thurston, for instance.

Where the Tigers are actually at (assuming we all agree that Rankin is pretty much useless as a winger) is having to make a decision to use the best kicker in the team that's getting picked (ie Moses) or use a weak player somewhere to improve the goal kicking (ie Rankin).

What I'm saying is that the step up from Moses' kicking to Rankin's is worth maybe 10-20 points a season. Would a better winger have scored three or four tries that Rankin didn't? Possibly, but who knows. That's the equation, though: you can't just add points from a better goal kicker in isolation without considering what else they bring to or detract from the side relative to whoever else would get picked.

Incidentally, Rankin is a 70% career kicker so it wouldn't even be a point a game - it would be more like a point every other game.

I'd also note that it seems to me that more and more teams are having the same issue - perhaps because it's no longer considered resonable to run out a dud winger who can kick goals (*cough* Luke Covell *cough*). Look at the Roosters with Taukeiaho kicking - until his ludicrous 6/6 in a cyclone game against the Tigers (of f-ing course) he was kicking barely 30%. They've obviously signed Gordon in part because they simply don't have a legitimate kicker and they'd rather carry an average winger than risk a terrible kicker. But it's obviously a trade off.

Anyway, bottom line is that if it's a choice between Moses kicking 65% and a decent winger or Rankin kicking 70% and playing wing I'd go the former.

 

[Cultured_Bogan]

I am inclined to agree with your reasoning 2041\. Truth is a strike winger could make you a 4-8 point better team week on week where that one extra goal per week becomes null and void.

Look at stats is a bit of a problem as well though, you might have a kicker who has a propensity to kick 2/7 when you've scored seven tries to two and in no trouble, but said kicker could kick 2/2 when it "matters." It's a rather tiresome task to look up game on game to see whether that is the case or not though.

All in all, reliance on goal kicking would suggest that the defence is simply not up to scratch as we are well capable of running points in. Leaking tries like a sieve is the catalyst for poorer conversion rate becoming an issue.

 

[2041]

I am inclined to agree with your reasoning 2041\. Truth is a strike winger could make you a 4-8 point better team week on week where that one extra goal per week becomes null and void.

Look at stats is a bit of a problem as well though, you might have a kicker who has a propensity to kick 2/7 when you've scored seven tries to two and in no trouble, but said kicker could kick 2/2 when it "matters." It's a rather tiresome task to look up game on game to see whether that is the case or not though.

All in all, reliance on goal kicking would suggest that the defence is simply not up to scratch as we are well capable of running points in. Leaking tries like a sieve is the catalyst for poorer conversion rate becoming an issue.

Also - and sorry to be Mr Doom and Gloom - but I think we need to rein in the idea that the 2015 Tigers were a points scoring machine held back by poor defence. They scored 499 points, good for 10th in the comp even with Parra's F/A deduction. The defence was certainly worse - 15th, to be precise - but let's keep things in perspective.

TBF an extra point every other game would put the Tigers up to 8th in points scored…

 

[Cultured_Bogan]

Well considering the teams that finish top of the ladder have either had the best or second best defence over the last ten years that would validate the point somewhat.

If you want to make the eight you've got to defend as well as you can attack, if not better.

 

[supercoach]

Benji was hit and miss with his kicking for the first season or maybe two, but than developed into a very reliable kicker…...I expect Moses will follow suit

 

[Masterton]

Anyway, bottom line is that if it's a choice between Moses kicking 65% and a decent winger or Rankin kicking 70% and playing wing I'd go the former.

I don't despise Rankin the way many do, but his goal-kicking is more than balanced out by his inability to score from close range. There's a reason Simona had 10 try assists in 2015 and 1 this year.

 

[WestsBenTigers]

Anyway, bottom line is that if it's a choice between Moses kicking 65% and a decent winger or Rankin kicking 70% and playing wing I'd go the former.

I don't despise Rankin the way many do, but his goal-kicking is more than balanced out by his inability to score from close range. There's a reason Simona had 10 try assists in 2015 and 1 this year.

That says a lot

 

[Cosimo_Zaretti]

Either option still leaves the issue of goal kicking. Also wouldn't mind seeing Sue & ET at 2nd row to sure up the defence + Aloiai to lock.

Sue is a wrecking ball when given a chance to run on the edge, we saw a few great tries at the tail end of the season once he got space to run. From memory he was covering an injured Chris Lawrence. The problem is we don't have enough big strong lads making dirty metres if Sue moves to backrow.

If JJ Felise could mature into a bigger workrate player to sure up the prop rotation, it would free up Sue to be used in a quicker impact role.

A left edge of Brooks, Sue, Idris and Simona, now there's a headache for defenders.

I don't despise Rankin the way many do, but his goal-kicking is more than balanced out by his inability to score from close range. There's a reason Simona had 10 try assists in 2015 and 1 this year.

Spot on, and from memory that assist was to set up JAC. Simona was a different player those couple of games JAC played outside him.

 

[Nelson]

What's the deal with this goal-kicking Winger fallacy …currently I can only think of 2 playing NRL at the moment Gordon and Kahu and an argument can be made that one's a fullback the other a centre..

Maybe we could sign Cammy Maloney A Reynolds Thursto or Croker to play on the wing...cause when you shake the Goal-kicking Winger tree nothing falls out...

As for Kev..just stop..there are 2 sides to the game defensively he sucks and catching a bomb makes Matty Utai look like Izzy Folau...

We are stuck with manufacturing a winger and none of the candidates inspire confidence ...

Wests Tigers had the chance a few months back in signing Callum Anderson, a goal kicking winger.

You mean Carlin Anderson.? How many NRL games has he played…?

Most games I've seen him play in Queensland Cup he was a fullback...went from Ipswich to the Blackhawks so can't of been to in demand..

Kerrod Holland could play wing or centre and kicks goals. You could probably manufacture Jackson Hastings into a centre as well if you could withstand the fact he seems to be a human turd.

 

[Harvey]

Anyway, bottom line is that if it's a choice between Moses kicking 65% and a decent winger or Rankin kicking 70% and playing wing I'd go the former.

I don't despise Rankin the way many do, but his goal-kicking is more than balanced out by his inability to score from close range. There's a reason Simona had 10 try assists in 2015 and 1 this year.

Was it the stupid kicks and desperation passes he made after making a break?